Sinking Fast - Tired Of Fighting

[Furballsmom]

Not that you haven't thought of this and my apologies if it's been mentioned already, but what about a trail of food from the back door, including a little Kentucky Fried Chicken?

 

[Labyrinth1119]

Please don't give in - do not feed them at the back door. they will get used to the new location, you know how smart they are. But yes, they are creatures of habit.

That nosy neighbor probably has eyes on you.

You and I know she does! What helps right now is my deadline for meeting the conditions of the notice of eviction, which is Monday (by Monday to be specific), so I have been able to start shifting their new feeding location without having to be super sneaky about it.

 

[Labyrinth1119]

Just a few updates:
1. I have my consultation with the attorney on Monday. I hope to get a better understanding of my situation and how I might be able to protect myself from eviction.

2. I have been, for lack of a better phrase, planning for the worst yet hoping for the best. For my most long-term ferals, I have been trying to find good 'barn cat' adopters. A long time friend who helped me start all this 13 years ago, is happy to hold on to my more senior cats, like George. George has been with me for 13 years. He's an oldie, and a sweet old man.

3. I have had a few neighbors, that have been there before I started TNR'ing 13 years ago, volunteer to talk to the office about how bad the cat population was before I stepped in to do something about it.

That's about it. Just acting like a good little community member as I am sure, come Monday, there will be LOTS of eyes on my house. Dare I say even searching for evidence of feeding.

 

[sweetblackpaws]

Please I would advise against #3. You want to give the impression you are done. You will not convince management of the advantages of what you are doing. I know that sounds harsh, but not everyone is as compassionate as you are, unfortunately.

 

[catsknowme]

While I agree with SweetBlackPaws that #3 might be risky, I would ask your supportive neighbors to jot down their thoughts on paper and then bring those to your attorney consultation. Assure your neighbors that anything you show the attorney is protected by attorney-client privilege.
I used to do intake interviews for 10 years when I ran my ex-husband's law office. I really like the way that you express yourself. You are articulate and well-organized. I am sure that your timeline will be very concise and that law office will be most impressed!

 

[msaimee]

I think the idea is for the neighbors to speak on behalf of all the good the OP has done for her community over the years, which would be a good thing. Her actions have been responsible and benefitted the community.

Labyrinth, what are your options in the worst case scenario if at some point the eviction goes through? Do you own your current home or are you a renter? Do you have the means to relocate nearby?

 

[sweetblackpaws]

"...the community manager agreed to allow me to continue. There were some concessions, i.e. I would make feeding more discrete, I wouldn't leave the pans out all day, etc. "

Did they give you that in writing? If so, you should be okay....so the actual eviction charge is property damage to neighbor's A/C duct, not feeding the ferals?

 

[Labyrinth1119]

sweetblackpaws , msaimee , catsknowme
It's almost like we have a 'hive mind'. I thanked my neighbors for their offer, but asked them to hold off for now as I, like you, know this will do no good. I do like the idea of having the information for the attorney, so I will make the rounds this weekend.

If eviction were to happen (and something the attorney said over the phone - I live in Florida, I don't know if I have mentioned that-eviction process is difficult and expensive. Non payment of rent being one thing, violation of a community rule is more difficult as the entire burden of proof falls on the office/community...but I am not letting this get my hopes up. I need facts, not generalizations), I own my home but not the land that it sits on (pre-manufactured). Their eviction would kick me off their property, forcing me to either move my house, or leave it behind. Do I have the means to relocate? Not immediately and not easily. Just to move the house can be up to $10k, plus buying/renting/whatever land somewhere, well, let's just say relocating would not be something I could do overnight.

The actual eviction is for this rule: 'Residents who have pets must keep them indoors at all times, except when they are being walked, at which time they must be accompanied by the resident and must be on a leash. Residents must clean up after their pets'.

So, I think we can all agree that this speaks more to dog ownership instead of cat, but it does say 'pet'. Researching what I could, this is a creative adjustment to a pet ordinance for the county I live in. Cats can be considered 'with their owner' if they have a collar and recent rabies tag. Do all mine wear collars? No. I get too scared that they will catch it on something, but they all have their rabies up to date (I provide copies to the local Animal Control every 3 years). It is further noted, in the county ordinance, that caretakers of feral cat colonies assume all financial responsibility for property damage caused by the cats. Usually, this kind of damage is caused by newcomers as most of mine are all fat and lazy. Pregnant momma looking for a place to give birth, new males asserting themselves, etc. I have so many deterrents at the ready, and offer to buy anything for neighbors who don't want the cats spraying their car, digging in the yard, etc. My peachy neighbor has declined ALL OF THESE (and I do have the text messages for that). When she asked me to pay for the replacement duct work, I did not hesitate. I accept these financial situations, though I will say that besides one other incident about 8 years ago where I paid for chicken wire to be installed around the crawlspace of a neighbor's house (their daughter had become VERY allergic to cats, and while the cats were not causing damage, their hair was still getting sucked in through the AC), I have never been asked to pay, nor has anyone ever had an issue with damage.

And it is for this rule violation reason that I want to meet with the attorney. What is the definition of 'pets'? There are some cats that are clearly well loved and cared for, but like to be piggies and pop by for some extra breakfast or dinner. Are those owners being cited as well? And where is the line of property and my house. Can they say that because my house sits on the property that everything I do WITHIN my house is subject to the community rules? What about my deck? My driveway? My shed?

Sadly, no. I did not get any of that in writing. I need to be more cynical as it never even occurred to me that I might need it. The closest thing I have is an email that the manager sent to the main TNR rescue group, indicating that a 'resident' had given him their information and he was interested in meeting with them, etc., etc., etc. So what I DO have, not that it will help me with the eviction, is the manager's own words that he wanted a 'safe and humane solution' for ALL the cats in the community. Keeping that in my back pocket for now as well.

Boy! I am just going on and on!

The last thing is, catsknowme , thank you for that! Knowing what you did for 10 years and hearing that I am expressing myself well just made me infinitely more confident! I think I may have puffed my chest a bit too...

 

[Labyrinth1119]

I should also mention: I have every intention of continuing to volunteer with the rescue and TNR groups I have worked with over the years. I still plan on participating in trapping events, fostering kittens, fostering mommas with soon to be kittens, and providing the recovery time and space needed for newly TNR's cats before they are taken back.

If my colony is taken away, and as utterly heartbroken that very thought makes me, my work will be in their memory...which will make it so much more important.

 

[Labyrinth1119]

Update after attorney: Based on conversation, I do not have much wiggle room or protection from eviction other than complete compliance with the Community Rule. The definition of 'pets' can be whatever the community wants it to be. The fact that I 'got away with it' for 13 years doesn't matter either. It doesn't matter that the Community had the chance to give approval for organizations to help, and never gave it. It doesn't matter that I have offered and paid for property damage to other residents.

Nothing I have done matters.

Even leaving the area, with or without my house, will take a long time. A longer time than I could stand to ignore these cats that have depended on me for up to 13 years. Relocation? I don't know where I could move them to in the interim. My colony is sizeable, 15-20 cats. I have already asked if I was allowed to continue feeding until I could get the colony relocated, and the answer was no. I asked if I could continue to feed until his 'final solution' took place. The answer was no.

I really don't mean to be dramatic, but I can't seem to stop sinking into despair. I have never want to not-exist more than right now. For all I know, there is another notice on my door because I was spotted feeding the cats this morning. Is this living? Nervous and anxious all the time? Terrified over every action?

 

[sweetblackpaws]

I am so sorry to hear this news. But please don't say nothing you did matters - I still think it is going to be alright. You will just have to work on colony relocation and/or feeding without their knowledge. Personally, I would be afraid of feeding but after 13 years I know that is easier said than done. I still think they are just appeasing the neighbor and don't want to continue with this 'fight' any more than you do. Are they spayed/neutered?

 

[catsknowme]

Ohhhh....what a discouragement And no, living like you might have the Gestapo swooping down on you at any given time is not the way anyone should have to live. At this point, do you have anyone who is willing to stealth feed for you? especially at the new location? Hopefully, the cats stay hidden in the daytime. What does Animal Control say about the situation? Our AC does not remove feral cats unless there is an emergency situation, such as an injured or ill cat or an attack on a person. Our shelter also charges a surrender fee of $40 per cat.

 

[Shane Kent]

My grandmother fed stray and feral cats on her back porch, she is where I get my love of cats from. What you are going through brings tears to my eyes and nothing but disgust for your neighbor(s). I would like to second what sweetblackpaws wrote "But please don't say nothing you did matters". I could never ever watch an animal starve to death and the people expecting you to do it are pathetic.

 

[sweetblackpaws]

Do you ever find carcasses from their hunts? My mom's ferals continued to hunt even though she fed them three times per day. Birds were their frequent choice of snack.

My point it, I do not think they will perish.

 

[vyger]

Just jumping in here, a few random thoughts.
Sounds like the lawyer isn't that great, a lot of them aren't.
The legal definition of pets is key. You are not an owner, they don't belong to you anymore than putting up a bird feeder means the birds that come there belong to you. Feeding something does not mean ownership and in fact does not even imply ownership.
Contact the Florida fish and game department and ask if they could clarify to you about implied ownership of wild domestic animals. Find out the status of feral cats if there is any. The fish and game departments have legal control of wildlife. What is considered wildlife?
Here is a fun one --- it is possible that legally the cat's could be considered to be the property of the management since they reside on their land. Now that would mean that they could legally have them removed and destroyed. But it would also mean that they would be required to feed them and take care of them according to the animal cruelty laws. Not providing food for them could get them fined and jailed. In addition the management could be liable for any damage done. And even more fun if a cat were to bite a resident they would be able to sue the management for all the medical costs plus pain and suffering. It could very well be that they already know all of this and their choice of action is to do nothing and hope it goes away if they nobody is giving food to the cats. Quite literally, starve them out without admitting any ownership or liability.
Really the only way they could demand that you stop feeding the animals is if they own the animals. Are they willing to admit to ownership?
Exactly what is the legal definition of pet ownership? In states that have wild horses the horses are considered to belong to the federal government and are under the management of the BLM. Jut feeding the horses hay does not mean they belong to you. If some pot bellied pigs that were pets got loose and started breeding who do the piglets belong to? Can you hunt them?

Finally as far as I know, you can't have a rental agreement that gives the owner the right to redefine what the agreement means any time they want to interpret it differently. The agreement is binding on both parties and does give you rights also. An agreement is more than just saying "I will pay this amount" What are you paying for? They may be liable for the cat problem to begin with. On the other hand, accepting ownership of the cats as a solution to "vermin control" could get them off the hook but also require that they take care of them. Maybe their best solution would be to hire you as the cat wrangler to manage the vermin control. A whole lot less legal problems that way.

One more thing , as someone else mentioned, they count on you not knowing your rights and just believe that bullying will work to bring you in line. However the same is true if you go on the offensive in challenging them as being the owners of the cats and there for are responsible for them. They will have to get a lawyer to investigate and verify the facts. They probably already have one but still burning up his legal hours looking stuff up about feral cat ownership is not something they are going to want to do.

 

[msaimee]

These are excellent points. Perhaps you could do a little research to see if there are any lawyers in your area specializing in animal advocacy? Perhaps someone would take your case pro bono. It's worth a shot.

 

[Labyrinth1119]

Thank you all again for your encouragement, sympathy and support. Forgive me, my emotions and thoughts are all over the place.

sweetblackpaws : No, no evidence of hunts. Do I think they would starve to death? I guess I would have to say no, but they would be underfed, malnourished, and some would possibly die.

catsknowme : Animal Control really can't do much. I told them of the situation, they are not happy about it, but there is nothing they can do if they are called upon to mass trap and euthanize. Under normal circumstances, they are delighted when a caretaker is willing to TNR. They even have this great program where they will trap up to 5 cats per household, come pick them up, spay/neuter for free, hold them and care for them while they recover, then release back at the house. This is what I have been using lately to make a bigger dent in my TNR efforts. As for someone else stealth feeding them; and I am sorry because I feel like I am just pooing all over everyone's suggestions; I am at the back of the neighborhood, surrounded by apartment buildings and other pre-manufactured homes. There really isn't a safe relocation nearby, and I would be horrified if a friend started doing something and ended up getting targeted in the process.

Some random stream of consciousness: Perhaps this race is run. I relinquish caretaking of these ferals. Then just take them. Do not make me witness to their crying for food every day and every night for months why you take your time. If I were to pick a best outcome for this scenario; just let me feed them until they are gone. What could be the ramifications of that? At least Animal Control will know where they are.

If they are no longer mine, who is responsible for them now? Animal neglect laws prohibit withholding food and water, especially here in Florida where our 'feels like' temperature was over 105 today. Can I call Animal Control every day to report these neglected cats against the Community? The next time my neighbor bitches about the smell of cat piss around her car, can I tell her to 'go to the office. They own the cats now'. Hell, there are some evil thoughts that drift by that HOPES that someone makes a request for some kind of monetary compensation. I would gleefully direct them to the office.

Ah. I am allowing myself to drift and not focus. Another blow has made me rather useless at the moment.

I might have to adjust meal time a bit. Canned food for breakfast, and I will sneak some dry food around for dinner. At least it is something, plus a little less risky for the evening hours.

I guess I am lucky that I made it this far in life never knowing that doing something good could bring out the worst in people.

 

[sweetblackpaws]

They will survive. Ultimately, they will move on to another food source. My feral showed up days after Hurricane Irma as if nothing had happened. They are tough. Besides, you certainly will be of no use to them if you are homeless. You MUST keep your home. Unless you have thousands of dollars for relocation , I would stick to your original game plan of keeping a low profile and perhaps picking up feeding again once the heat is off. I would not be hostile to the mean neighbor. I would put up a facade as if you are relieved of the whole thing.

 

[Labyrinth1119]

vyger : Oh my! How delightful you are! I am so sorry because I was crafting a reply to others when yours came in and I just now read it! At least I can feel good knowing that some of the thoughts I have are not completely out in left field.

Ok, now i am terrible at this quote stuff, so I am just going to address some of your questions/points.

Pets: Orange County ordinance defines a pet as anything that is 'not classified as livestock'. A hedgehog, ferret, bird, you name it. These can all be pets. Now, onto the classification of 'ownership'. Now, with the ferals, I fall more into the label of 'keeper' which is NOT specified in the rule. That aside, an owner can be defined as anyone that provides 'consistent care and tends to the medical needs' of an animal. So what is 'consistent care'? Consistent can be defined as a 'long and continuous period of time'. Who has the burden of proof for the definition of 'ownership'? That would be the Community. Do they have photographic evidence of me over a 'long period of time'? No idea. With my neighbor, I would venture to say yes as she could have snapped a picture every day when I put food out.

Interpreting the rules: From what the attorney said, this line in my lease agreement protects them: 'The park owner reserves the right to change, delete amend, and add to these rules'. It does not say that they are required to notify residents of such changes, however, since a lease agreement (at least in Florida/Orange County) is only good for 1 year, then it becomes a 'month to month agreement', I would think they would be required to provide such notice. What I had with previous management, was an 'oral modification' to the lease agreement in regards to pet rules and restrictions. The new management (took over about 3 years ago) does not have to abide by that. And to be honest, I had been doing this for so long that I didn't think to ask for new permission.

I cannot thank you enough for bringing a new perspective to all this. I have already been advised to seek another legal opinion, but need to somehow finds the funds to actually hire one so the amount and quality of the information may be more valuable.

 

[vyger]

The next time my neighbor bitches about the smell of cat piss around her car, can I tell her to 'go to the office

A sure cure for that cat smell is skunk stench. Now I would NEVER suggest finding a local source of that divine concoction and maybe getting a small sample and accidentally dispersing it on their car to help eliminate any cat smell. However, seeing them run to the office to complain about the skunk hanging around would be entertaining.
I don't have any close neighbors, but it's not from skunks. I did have a family of skunks one year. They were cute. The mom and her kits spent the spring digging up grubs and trying to avoid me. Then they got big and moved on. None of the cats ever got skunked. I guess they were better neighbors than your neighbors, the skunk family that is.

Wow, look at that, there is such a thing.
Pure Skunk Essence | Skunk Scent for Sale | PredatorPee Store

Getting caught would for sure get you kicked out though. But isn't it a fun idea?
To bad I was never mean enough to do those kinds of things. Some would consider that character flaw.


OK, this is fantastic, same web site different page.
How to Repel Domestic and Feral Cats | Wolf Urine for Cats
Cat repelent, to keep the cats from peeing around the place ---- Wolf urine!!!! Yes, tell your neighbor spraying a little fresh wolf urine around will keep the cats away