Signs Of A Reputable And Responsible Breeder Help

[Incognito47]

Hi so I'm looking for a Maine coon breeder in South LA. Thanks to the community here and my breeder friend I believe I dodged a bullet. Really grateful for that. I almost rescued a cat for 1000 from a possible kitten mill who has temperament issues. While I normally would I have another cat and plan to have a companion cat for her as we lost her sister due to fip. I want to ask what are the signs of a good breeder? Like how many male and female breeding cats there should be, what I should I look for, ask, etc. Also how should the kittens act when I see then and if it's normal for the breeding cats to be matted badly. I have looked online but I still don't have a good idea on how a responsible and reputable breeder should be. Help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[lutece]

No, it's not normal for adult cats' coats to be matted badly. Longhaired cats' coats should be either properly groomed, or clipped short.

As far as number of breeding cats, it's hard to give a hard and fast rule... it really depends on how much space and time the breeder has available. Different breeds also vary in how much space they need and how comfortable the cats are in a group. I personally know some breeders who only have the space and time to properly manage a few cats and kittens. On the other hand, I know other breeders who have really nice large facilities and have extra staff to care for their cats and kittens (and these are not kitten mill breeders!) Ask about the cats' living arrangements... do they live in the breeder's home, do they have special facilities, how are the males housed, how are the kittens housed and raised, etc.

Do you have other specific questions?

If you want a general answer, I just wrote a bit in this other thread:
What Do You Think Of This Breeder?
I think it's helpful first of all to try to understand why the person breeds cats. Some do it as a hobby because they like to show their cats and their social life revolves around the cat fancy... some do it because they want to preserve a breed that they love... some derive genuine satisfaction out of placing kittens in homes... some are simply doing it to make a profit (although they may not openly admit to that being their motivation). Understanding the breeder's motivation isn't everything, but it gives you a good starting point for asking more questions.

 

[lutece]

You also asked how the kittens should behave when you visit them. This is partly going to depend on the kittens' age, as kittens go through many developmental stages. It's difficult to walk into a breeder's home and evaluate temperament for very young kittens (under 3 months old). A very young kitten might still be shy and nervous, or might still be learning not to bite people, or might be too busy to slow down and interact with stupid humans... any of these kittens might develop into wonderful, affectionate cats when they get a little older. A good breeder is experienced with their cats' bloodlines, and can make an educated guess about how each kitten will develop.

Adult cats in a breeder's home should not be overly fearful. They might come and say hello, or they might hang back and check you out first. Parents and adults from the same bloodlines are your best indication of how the kittens will look and behave as adults.

Most good breeders are happy to talk endlessly about all of their cats and their individual personalities and temperament quirks, the personalities of their parents and ancestors, etc.

 

[Incognito47]

No, it's not normal for adult cats' coats to be matted badly. Longhaired cats' coats should be either properly groomed, or clipped short.

As far as number of breeding cats, it's hard to give a hard and fast rule... it really depends on how much space and time the breeder has available. Different breeds also vary in how much space they need and how comfortable the cats are in a group. I personally know some breeders who only have the space and time to properly manage a few cats and kittens. On the other hand, I know other breeders who have really nice large facilities and have extra staff to care for their cats and kittens (and these are not kitten mill breeders!) Ask about the cats' living arrangements... do they live in the breeder's home, do they have special facilities, how are the males housed, how are the kittens housed and raised, etc.

Do you have other specific questions?

If you want a general answer, I just wrote a bit in this other thread:
What Do You Think Of This Breeder?
I think it's helpful first of all to try to understand why the person breeds cats. Some do it as a hobby because they like to show their cats and their social life revolves around the cat fancy... some do it because they want to preserve a breed that they love... some derive genuine satisfaction out of placing kittens in homes... some are simply doing it to make a profit (although they may not openly admit to that being their motivation). Understanding the breeder's motivation isn't everything, but it gives you a good starting point for asking more questions.

Thanks for answering my questions and for helping me out in my last question! I do have another question. What are the red flags I should look out for in a bad breeder or potential kitten mill?

 

[lutece]

Red flags:
- Routinely selling kittens younger than 12 weeks of age
- No guarantee or contract when buying a kitten
- Basic health tests appropriate for the breed are not performed on the parents
- Parents of kittens not registered in a major association, kittens sold without pedigree or papers
- Breeder offers "rare" or designer mixtures of breeds, or charges a premium for "rare" colors or traits not usually allowed in the breed
- Large number of cats in a small space
- Cats or kittens are fearful, dirty, ungroomed or sick (a good breeder may occasionally have a sick cat, but they would isolate it from the population)

Yellow flags (caution advised, but might be OK):
- Breeder does not show their cats
- Kittens not spayed / neutered before placement
- Web site or Facebook focuses on kitten sales, with many pictures of individual kittens for sale
- Pictures of cats and kittens do not include anything about the environment they are raised in
- Prices are either unusually high or unusually low for the breed
- For Maine Coons: I would be cautious of a breeder that over-emphasizes size of their cats, or emphasizes "European lines" (it can be legitimate to work with European lines, but it can also be a sign of a cattery that is primarily out for profit)

 

[lutece]

Here is an example of a good Maine Coon breeder (who happens to be located in southern CA)
Web site: Calicats
Facebook: Maine Coon Cats

This breeder shows her cats and achieves Grand Champion titles (and more). Her Facebook page shows happy and well-adjusted cats in a home environment (check out the video of cats sitting on the dining room table doing tricks ) Her web site outlines some of her sales policies, and highlights the accomplishments of some of her adult cats.

Good breeders don't primarily sell online... they are more likely to sell kittens by word of mouth, repeat customers, and people they meet at shows. So, they don't always keep their web sites or Facebook updated. They often don't have available kittens posted, but you can contact them and ask.

 

[Incognito47]

Here is an example of a good Maine Coon breeder (who happens to be located in southern CA)
Web site: Calicats
Facebook: Maine Coon Cats

This breeder shows her cats and achieves Grand Champion titles (and more). Her Facebook page shows happy and well-adjusted cats in a home environment (check out the video of cats sitting on the dining room table doing tricks ) Her web site outlines some of her sales policies, and highlights the accomplishments of some of her adult cats.

Good breeders don't primarily sell online... they are more likely to sell kittens by word of mouth, repeat customers, and people they meet at shows. So, they don't always keep their web sites or Facebook updated. They often don't have available kittens posted, but you can contact them and ask.

Yes I'm in contact with calicats actually, she's absolutely wonderful. Planning to get a kitten from her as soon as she has a silver cat available. If not from her then her associates.

 

[Incognito47]

Red flags:
- Routinely selling kittens younger than 12 weeks of age
- No guarantee or contract when buying a kitten
- Basic health tests appropriate for the breed are not performed on the parents
- Parents of kittens not registered in a major association, kittens sold without pedigree or papers
- Breeder offers "rare" or designer mixtures of breeds, or charges a premium for "rare" colors or traits not usually allowed in the breed
- Large number of cats in a small space
- Cats or kittens are fearful, dirty, ungroomed or sick (a good breeder may occasionally have a sick cat, but they would isolate it from the population)

Yellow flags (caution advised, but might be OK):
- Breeder does not show their cats
- Kittens not spayed / neutered before placement
- Web site or Facebook focuses on kitten sales, with many pictures of individual kittens for sale
- Pictures of cats and kittens do not include anything about the environment they are raised in
- Prices are either unusually high or unusually low for the breed
- For Maine Coons: I would be cautious of a breeder that over-emphasizes size of their cats, or emphasizes "European lines" (it can be legitimate to work with European lines, but it can also be a sign of a cattery that is primarily out for profit)

Why ar european lines bad if you don't mind me asking? Cuz the breeder I went yesterday really emphasized and specialised on European mainM coons

 

[lutece]

European lines aren't bad in themselves. It can be legitimate to work with them as part of a breeding program. However, be cautious, as some of these breeders are just out to make money by selling large, flashy looking kittens online for high prices. It is easy for a new breeder to buy European breeding stock, and start a breeding program... just go to Facebook and you'll see tons of pictures of kittens from Russia, etc., that are sold with breeding rights. It can be much more difficult for a new breeder to gain the trust of Maine Coon breeders in the US and buy breeding stock here at home.

 

[lutece]

Yes I'm in contact with calicats actually, she's absolutely wonderful. Planning to get a kitten from her as soon as she has a silver cat available. If not from her then her associates.

That's great! You are in good hands She is an experienced and trustworthy breeder.

 

[Incognito47]

European lines aren't bad in themselves. It can be legitimate to work with them as part of a breeding program. However, be cautious, as some of these breeders are just out to make money by selling large, flashy looking kittens online for high prices. It is easy for a new breeder to buy European breeding stock, and start a breeding program... just go to Facebook and you'll see tons of pictures of kittens from Russia, etc., that are sold with breeding rights. It can be much more difficult for a new breeder to gain the trust of Maine Coon breeders in the US and buy breeding stock here at home.

Oh huh the breeder I saw yesterday got her European lines mainly from Europe. She also doesn't sell breeding rights to the US. Only europe and canada. She also sells a premium for them, 2000 than the 1500 1800 people usually sell them for. Guessing the former is also reason for concern

 

[lutece]

One problem with working with imported European cats is that the breeder may not know much about what is behind those cats... if they acquired their breeding stock by seeing pictures online and having kittens shipped or brought by courier to them, they may not really know anything about the bloodlines behind their cats. The cats may have relatives back in Europe that have serious health or behavior issues, and the breeder would have no way to know.

Breeders that are working with domestic bloodlines are more likely to know a lot about the ancestors behind their cats, often for many generations behind them.

 

[Incognito47]

One problem with working with imported European cats is that the breeder may not know much about what is behind those cats... if they acquired their breeding stock by seeing pictures online and having kittens shipped or brought by courier to them, they may not really know anything about the bloodlines behind their cats. The cats may have relatives back in Europe that have serious health or behavior issues, and the breeder would have no way to know.

Breeders that are working with domestic bloodlines are more likely to know a lot about the ancestors behind their cats, often for many generations behind them.

I see thank you very much, imI learning so many new things in this past few days

 

[Incognito47]

Here is an example of a good Maine Coon breeder (who happens to be located in southern CA)
Web site: Calicats
Facebook: Maine Coon Cats

This breeder shows her cats and achieves Grand Champion titles (and more). Her Facebook page shows happy and well-adjusted cats in a home environment (check out the video of cats sitting on the dining room table doing tricks ) Her web site outlines some of her sales policies, and highlights the accomplishments of some of her adult cats.

Good breeders don't primarily sell online... they are more likely to sell kittens by word of mouth, repeat customers, and people they meet at shows. So, they don't always keep their web sites or Facebook updated. They often don't have available kittens posted, but you can contact them and ask.

I also saw first hand Gemini, her cats doing tricks hahaha. He is really cute

 

[sivyaleah]

I'm leaving the link to the Maine Coon breeder I'm wait listed with so you can see another site from a very reputable breeder to make comparisons with others that are not. FYI, the chef Bobby Flay just got his 2nd MC from this breeder - which made me feel a lot more confident that I'd picked the right people. Not that I was worried, but it did instill a heck of a lot more assuredness knowing someone famous trusted them enough to purchase one of their kittens.

MetatronEyes Maine Coons

This husband/wife team started in Greece and moved to Arkansas several years ago. They are professional photographers (hence the glossy site) and breed more for the love of the cats, than for profit. In fact, there's an entire page on the site that explains in great detail just how expensive it is to breed and raise cats including the lengths they go to preparing and feeding them raw. They have an enormous piece of property, and are able to have several litters a year due to space and the help of other family members. And, their cats are raised as part of their family too. The kittens temperaments are fantastic as evidenced by the multitude of videos they share via social media - and once you are on their approved wait list, you get email updates of each and every litter until your time comes up so you can always see the progress of each mating. It's really quite interesting!

EDIT: There's a page on their site that has links about how to avoid back yard breeders and kitty mills, and how to find a reputable breeder.

KITTENS | MetatronEyes Maine Coons

 

[lutece]

If you are on the Metatroneyes waiting list, maybe you know the answer to this... if they breed to the standard and are proud of the cats they are producing, why don't they show their cats? I see one cat with a CH title on their web site, the others don't have any titles.

Some breeders don't show their own cats, but place them with other breeders who show them... So I looked through the TICA standings to see if other breeders are showing cats from them, but there are only a couple of cats with the Metatroneyes cattery name showing up in the standings (I checked through the last 4 years).

 

[Incognito47]

I'm leaving the link to the Maine Coon breeder I'm wait listed with so you can see another site from a very reputable breeder to make comparisons with others that are not. FYI, the chef Bobby Flay just got his 2nd MC from this breeder - which made me feel a lot more confident that I'd picked the right people. Not that I was worried, but it did instill a heck of a lot more assuredness knowing someone famous trusted them enough to purchase one of their kittens.

MetatronEyes Maine Coons

This husband/wife team started in Greece and moved to Arkansas several years ago. They are professional photographers (hence the glossy site) and breed more for the love of the cats, than for profit. In fact, there's an entire page on the site that explains in great detail just how expensive it is to breed and raise cats including the lengths they go to preparing and feeding them raw. They have an enormous piece of property, and are able to have several litters a year due to space and the help of other family members. And, their cats are raised as part of their family too. The kittens temperaments are fantastic as evidenced by the multitude of videos they share via social media - and once you are on their approved wait list, you get email updates of each and every litter until your time comes up so you can always see the progress of each mating. It's really quite interesting!

EDIT: There's a page on their site that has links about how to avoid back yard breeders and kitty mills, and how to find a reputable breeder.

KITTENS | MetatronEyes Maine Coons

Funny story I asked to be on the waiting list, but it was closed. Apparently it's 3 years..... Calicats recommended me to them because I am also looking for a white Maine coon

 

[Faikey]

Do you plan on getting a show cat or do you just want a coon for temperamental reasons?

My coon-copy (Looks a lot like everyone's missing certified main coons but obviously I have no idea if she is or not breed certified) does tricks without training, is intelligent, huge, fiercely loyal, and extremely docile. I was bored tonight and decided to see if I could get her to figure out how to give me a hand five and she figured it out in like..10 minutes. She already fetched and opened doors. She even trained my last roommate by chirping and shrillling at her in the morning so that my roommate would throw water at her (she loves water).
There's beautiful coons in rescues that may not be breed certified but would be the color and have the temperament you want.

Lutece already gave you all the information you needed about getting a proper main coon breed certified from the right breeders, but I felt like I should suggest an option as it looks like you're looking for temperament and the cute and fun tricks main coons can do.

 

[sivyaleah]

If you are on the Metatroneyes waiting list, maybe you know the answer to this... if they breed to the standard and are proud of the cats they are producing, why don't they show their cats? I see one cat with a CH title on their web site, the others don't have any titles.

Some breeders don't show their own cats, but place them with other breeders who show them... So I looked through the TICA standings to see if other breeders are showing cats from them, but there are only a couple of cats with the Metatroneyes cattery name showing up in the standings (I checked through the last 4 years).

It's a good question, I don't know the answer. I can only assume they do not have the time to do the circuits required to achieve those titles.

They are TICA registered and fully pedigreed papers are provided so, there certainly isn't any question of their background.

It seems that they are concentrating on high quality pets. Perhaps they don't feel it's necessary to "show off" the cats in a public setting? I don't know enough about that aspect of breeding to make an educated guess but it is a very good question to ask of them if for no other reason than further knowledge.

 

[sivyaleah]

Funny story I asked to be on the waiting list, but it was closed. Apparently it's 3 years..... Calicats recommended me to them because I am also looking for a white Maine coon

When I got on the list it was 2 years. I'm down to 20 months now. They had 4 adults come up recently which we'd consider, but we weren't ready yet. We recently lost our older boy and it's just too soon to consider bringing another one into our home.

I don't know if we'll be able to hold out that long as our younger girl does seem to be missing having cat company so we'll probably rescue another cat long before that time period is up and then, still get the MC when he/she is available.