Siamese? Ragdoll? Mainecoon?

Destinyyymarie

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So I adopted a kitten from a woman who said he’s pure Siamese.... he’s clearly not considering he has such long fur. She also said there was a male mainecoon in the house so for a while I thought she just must not have known. Well looking around the internet I came across Ragdolls and he looks very similar to the inverted V type. He’s a polydactyl and about 12 weeks old now. Anybody know what he could be??
 

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lutece

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He's so cute! I would describe him as a seal point and white domestic longhair. Most cats are not any particular breed.

The colorpoint gene originally came from the Siamese breed about 70 years ago, and because of this, some people call any pointed cat a "Siamese," so perhaps that is why the former owner described him that way? At this time, the colorpoint gene is widespread in the domestic cat population and doesn't indicate recent Siamese ancestry. You are correct that the Siamese breed is short haired, and doesn't have the type of white markings that he has. The Ragdoll is a long haired breed that does come in seal point and white, but polydactylism isn't a trait seen in Ragdolls... It's most likely that your kitten is simply a domestic longhair, with his own wonderful and unique collection of traits. He is obviously a very special little guy :)
 
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Destinyyymarie

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He's so cute! I would describe him as a seal point and white domestic longhair. Most cats are not any particular breed.

The colorpoint gene originally came from the Siamese breed about 70 years ago, and because of this, some people call any pointed cat a "Siamese," so perhaps that is why the former owner described him that way? At this time, the colorpoint gene is widespread in the domestic cat population and doesn't indicate recent Siamese ancestry. You are correct that the Siamese breed is short haired, and doesn't have the type of white markings that he has. The Ragdoll is a long haired breed that does come in seal point and white, but polydactylism isn't a trait seen in Ragdolls... It's most likely that your kitten is simply a domestic longhair, with his own wonderful and unique collection of traits. He is obviously a very special little guy :)
The only reason we assume he was Siamese was because his “mom” and “dad” were both very very Siamese cats. There was no doubt about it but when you adopt from someone random who know if that was really his parents. But both were polydactyls. He’s just a mutt but he’s my handsome boy 💕
 

StefanZ

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The only reason we assume he was Siamese was because his “mom” and “dad” were both very very Siamese cats. There was no doubt about it but when you adopt from someone random who know if that was really his parents. But both were polydactyls. He’s just a mutt but he’s my handsome boy 💕
The owner may have been a BYB, as she has several fertile cats inhouse, and apparently doesnt have no full controll over whom is mating with whom. She is surely no serious breeder.

Maine coon usually doesnt carry the point gene. I suppose its possible and happens, especielly with a random BYB, but its not the common in the breed as such.
BUT even so, its not enough to give the kitten long hair. Because the long hair gene, alike the point gene, is recessive, so "you need two to dance tango". Both daddy and momma must be at least a carrier of the longhair gene...

So, its easier to think, both these siamese-type look alikes did carried longhair gene... And thus, about 1 kitten in the litter got longhair...

Purebred Siameses arent longhairs as said earlier. But if we try a kind interpretation, and for the sake of the discussion admit the parents are real siameses. There IS a legitimate explanation: they could be a mix with Balinese, ie the longhaired siamese.
In some associations such mix out are allowed, if you get OK from the association, and of course, are clear about this. So for example in the big european association of FIFe.

Still, the money bet guess is, parents are moggies of mixed parentage, even if decent siamese look alike. Because we know the owner is a byb, not a serious breeder.
 

lutece

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Purebred Siameses arent longhairs as said earlier. But if we try a kind interpretation, and for the sake of the discussion admit the parents are real siameses. There IS a legitimate explanation: they could be a mix with Balinese, ie the longhaired siamese.
In some associations such mix out are allowed, if you get OK from the association, and of course, are clear about this. So for example in the big european association of FIFe.

Still, the money bet guess is, parents are moggies of mixed parentage, even if decent siamese look alike. Because we know the owner is a byb, not a serious breeder.
Note that the parents were also polydactyls... so they definitely weren't Siamese cats.
 

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From what I understand polydactyl is a Maine Coon trait. Also from what I've read it was actually the norm for MC's to be polydactyl and it was bred out over time. I have run across a number of breeders that are actually breeding MC's to be polydactyl. I'm not sure what CFA and TICA standards are concerning that but, the breeders that I found doing this did show. In reality, again from my research, a " true " MC should be polydactyl. I just have to wonder if the MC you mentioned the breeder had is polydactyl? It may be possible you have a Siamese and MC mix. As mentioned above by StefanZ StefanZ the pointed gene does not run in the MC breed so, the cross breeding to get the two characteristics makes sense. He's a beautiful boy and very unique!
 

lutece

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I have a friend who has worked with polydactyl lines and is a breeder of Maine Coons in ACFA / CFA / TICA. Polydactyl Maine Coons are not accepted in CFA and ACFA, but have been recently accepted in TICA as part of the Maine Coon breed group. There are some serious breeders that work with polydactyl lines, although it is not common in the breed at this time.

Polydactylism was definitely a trait seen in Maine Coons in the "old days," although I would disagree that it was the "norm" or that a "true" Maine Coon should be polydactyl. It was simply a trait that some breeders worked with. The Maine Coon Breeders and Fanciers Association has a lot of information on the Maine Coon breed and its history and is a good source. Here is a 1969 article which gives a good overview of Maine Coons at the time when breeders were working towards acceptance of this breed in the various associations:
You'll see in this article a discussion of polydactylism. As the author states, "some" Maine Coons of that time were polydactyls, and there was controversy over whether this trait should be permitted in the breed, with some breeders arguing that the trait should be permitted and others arguing that it should not.
 
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lutece

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Just another note about Maine Coon polydactyls. The MC breeders that work with the old polydactyl lines tend to be the type of breeder that is really focused on preserving the historical MC breed. Such a person wouldn't place a breeding MC with someone like the breeder of the OP's cat, who is working with shorthaired pointed polydactyl cats, and calling longhaired polydactyl offspring "pure Siamese" :)

On the other hand, there is a completely different trend with polydactyl cats (not poly MCs), where some people combine the polydactyl trait with other traits and mutations. Some of these people are trying to create new breeds, while others are simply backyard breeders who like playing around with different traits... it's possible that's what was going on with the person that bred the OP's cat? But I would really doubt there is any connection here with the traditional poly MC lines.
 

cataholic07

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Hmm though a cat can look siamese, it doesn't mean they are. Case in point, this is Will, he was one of my fosters. He looks siamese, but isn't. He had a longhair tabby brother, and tabby siblings lol. We actually get quite a few in rescue from regular domestic parents.

will3.jpg
 

sabian

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The thing I found interesting about http://mcbfa.org/cats1969.pdf was that some believe that pure Turkish Angora's only come in white which goes against breed standards for CFA and that MC's were passed off as Angora's. Also. that MC's were believed to be bred in the wild with domestic cats which, by today's standard would mean they were from feral colony's and what many post here, of no breed at all! :eek: :lol:

I think alot more was read into what I posted but, whatever. Here's one of the source's I got my information from. The OP can decide for themselves. I'm sure the person that wrote the article has no clue what their talking about either. :lol:
THE HISTORY OF THE POLYDACTYL MAINE COON CAT
 

lutece

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Back in 1969, a lot of people did think that pure Turkish Angoras only came in white. That was 51 years ago, though :)

Yes, Beth Kus (Dirigo Maine Coons) is one of the old time MC breeders and there's lots of interesting information on that site. Here is an article from 1998 entitled "Is My Cat a Maine Coon?" with her opinion on whether a rescued kitty or a cat from a feral colony is likely to be a MC.
 
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