siamese kittens

[ghostuser]

I would like some help in discerning the colors of Siamese kittens. I lost contact with the breeder, and have 4 kittens, 5 weeks old. I have a book, but it does not tell me at what age I can be sure. I need to know early differences between lilac and blue and chocolate and seal point. Mother is a seal point, Daddy,a blue point. Are "guard hairs" any help? (I used to show collies} Thanks. Jeanie

 

[sandie]

I am sure I can find out for you soon. Why is it you need to know the difference now?

 

[Anne]

I heard that Siamese take time to develop their final colors, because they're born with no points at all. Do you have the mother as well? 4 kittens and so young and you have no contact with the breeder - Sounds like there's an interesting cat story behind this ...

 

[ghostuser]

I bought both male and female, and she has kittens. I did not intend to breed, but now I am thoroughly enjoying the new little ones. I need to know as much as possible, and the book I have shows only more mature kittens. Siamese are born pure white and start getting their color points in 7-10 days. It is a gradual process that takes time, but I'm sure there are earlier signs that I am too inexperienced to recognize. As a former breeder of show collies, I feel the need to learn as much as possible. Of course, these babies will not get new homes for a month or more. By the way, I have always had cats, but these two are the most loving and intelligent I have ever had!. p.s. I am now homebound, so it's great to have them and the internet. It's difficult to have no responsibilities, and these kittens are not beyond my physical abilities.

 

[Anne]

Great to see your post Jeanie!

Hope you're feeling okay and having a good time with the kitties. Please come and visit often - I think you'll find there's a bunch of friendly people on these forums (who just happen to be cat lovers - coincidence?

).

We can talk about anything, not just cats, y'know... So if you have the time, the cat lounge is the place for you!

As for the kittens, do you see differences in the coloration already?

 

[sa_hill]

I'm not a breeder and I'm certainly not an expert but one way you can sometimes tell a Siamese's point color is by their nose and paw pads. Blues will have gray leather, Lilacs will have pinkish leather, chocolates will have milk chocolate leather, and seals will have dark brown/black leather.

BTW - This is my first visit to this site. Someone asked the webmaster at the Siamese Internet Cat Club to cross post this question. I saw it and thought I'd try to help provide an answer. You can find tons of information about Siamese (and lots of people who are crazy for the breed) at http://www.meezer.com Now I'm off to explore your site a little bit!

 

[gayef]

At 5 weeks old, your litter's points (ears, face, legs, paws, tail) are really only starting to deepen, so it may be as many as 3 to 5 more weeks before you can make a more educated assessment of their point color. You should have more certainty by the time they are 12 weeks old. Some good indicators would be eye color, point color, body color, nose leather and paw pad color.

In a seal point, the eyes will be a clear, brilliant, deep blue, the points will be a seal brown (very dark) and the body will be a cream shading gradually into pale warm fawn on the back. Seal point kittens will usually be pale in color. The nose leather and paw pads are normally seal brown.

In a blue point, the eyes are clear, vivid blue. The points are light blue (grey). The body is glacial white, shading gradually into blue on the back, same as the points but a lighter color. The nose leather and paw pads are blue.

A chocolate point will have clear, bright, vivid blue eyes, the points will be a milk chocolate color, the legs will be paler and the body is ivory all over with little or no shading into the points. The nose leather and paw pads are a chocolate or pinkish chocolate color.

Lilac points will have clear, vivid blue eyes, the points are pinkish grey, the body is off-white (I think of a magnolia *smile*) with little or no shading into the points. The nose leather and paw pads are pinkish/faded lilac.

While I feel certain that you will want to do the best job possible for your babies, I also feel compelled to remind you that *Siamese kittens are not ready to leave their mothers before 12 weeks of age*. They seem to need those extra few weeks to develop fully and properly more so than other kittens do, so in order to ensure a happier placement for them when the time comes, remember that, OK?

Hope this helps you, and if I can be of further assistance to you, please don't hesitate to contact me. I am still somewhat new to the wonderful world of breeding Traditional Siamese myself, but I can put you in touch with some really wonderful, very knowledgable people who are ethical, responsible breeders of pedigreed Siamese cats.

Best of luck to you,

Gaye

 

[ghostuser]

Thank you all so much. I read your valuable replies and joined the recommended Siamese site, where I learned more. P.S. Guess what has just found the computer desk to be a fine resting and observation spot? Clue: It's not my Collie.

 

[Anne]

Thanks for the great replies Meezers!

Hope you stick around - seems like you have a lot of cat knowledge stored there...

we'd love to share!

 

[comradekitties]

You need to know what is in the background of the parents - the point colors take a long time to come in and at 5 weeks you may be seeing some color - you have a seal and a blue - now Judy Miller is the expert here but my limited experience with the Siberian cp tells me you can't have lilac unless you have chocolate as lilac is a dilute of chocolate - well looks like someone has given you a lot of info - but the pedigree will also tell you more info as to what they could be - I find the seal colors come in first as it is the darkest. if the other parent carries dilute you could very well have blue. Hope this helps or at least confuses you more. LOL !!!! Linda

 

[judy miller]

Both parents would have to carry the chocolate gene in order to have any chocolates. And both would have to carry dilute to make the chocolate, lilac and the seal, blue. One of the parents is blue, so the other one would have to carry it, also.
Judy

 

[ghostuser]

Thanks, Judy. Now I have a new problem. Mother moved the kittens and has trained them to hide any time someone comes in the room. Of course I am putting food out for them, but when they see me, they scatter. Now Mom calls them to me, but they don't trust me yet. If I lie on the couch they play all around me until I stir, then hide! Oh, well patience is a virtue, but I want these little ones to love their human relatives too. None of my other mommy cats has ever done this. Has anyone else had this experience? {I cannot actively pursue them because of my disability.}Jeanie

 

[judy miller]

How old are these kittens? I have noticed that during normal development, kittens will go through stages, where any big object such as a human that just appears will be enough to scatter them. Or someone getting up from a sitting position will scatter them. But only until they hear the voice that they know. Then they come right back out. The solution to that is to always say something before making any moves, or before they actually see you. If the Mother is skittish she will teach that to the kittens.
I think, that since you can't go after these kittens, I would limit their time with their mother, so they don't learn bad habits from her. And keep them in a small area so that can't run and hide from you. It sounds like they are a bunch that just need more time. Some kittens are easier to "tame" than others. I think that a cat's attitude is basically wild. It takes a lot of work with these tougher cases to get them ready for new homes.
Judy

 

[ghostuser]

The kittens are now two months old, and so far it appears that I have 2 blues, 1 seal point, and 1 chocolate. Of course they're still developing, so they may have more surprises in store. They, of course, are holy terrors, leaping into stacks of sorted papers, using me as a launching pad, and trying every which way to nurse far more often than their mother is willing to tolerate. She lies on her tummy and it's funny to watch them push their heads under her--kind of sad, too, but she knows they will soon be too old for baby stuff!

 

[sandie]

Yeah, I just had a litter 3 weeks ago and one is a blue point. He is the only pointed cat in the litter, so it has been fun to watch the colors come out. I have noticed that he is the turkey of the bunch, always making mom upset when he leaves the queening box. The other 2 are mellow compared to her!!