Serious Birth Complications (TW Death)

[StefanZ]

These are excellent gains! Is it during 9 hours?? Be prepare its some measuring fault, still, you have a base to cont on....

anyway, IF they really add this good, its a verry positive sign... Probably hinting they take from momma too, because you arent giving them much so far.

continue to weigh every 12 hours till you know for sure if they add properly, or if it was soem lucky coincidence...
When you have a stable raise, its enough every 24 hours.

 

[catmom102618]

Yes, maybe some error! Seems like a lot. But I balanced the scale to zero and the container itself that i weigh them in is 160g. Atleast now I know what they weighed on my scale and can track accordingly! Just did another feed and it seems the smaller one is struggling to latch but is taking to the syringe well, had the full 2ml (as vet requested).
The larger one should be taking 2.5 but only took 1. Stronger latch but gave up on the feeding quicker. Maybe feeding from mama?
Since they are suckling I may try to pick up some smaller bottle nipples as the ones they gave are quite large. They have perked up slightly since the first feed I gave them around 8am, loud squeals. They seem to be doing well.

 

[Sarthur2]

You can order Miracle Nipples on Amazon. They are most like mom’s.

It does sound like at least the larger kitten is getting milk from mom. The smaller one will hopefully begin latching more strongly soon.

 

[catmom102618]

You can order Miracle Nipples on Amazon. They are most like mom’s.

It does sound like at least the larger kitten is getting milk from mom. The smaller one will hopefully begin latching more strongly soon.

I cannot find them on Amazon Canada or any retailers. I did find some options that look similar? Please let me know if you think they will be suitable. Otherwise I will have to go to my pet store and grab a feeding kit with smaller nipples but not the same shape unfortunately.

 

[catmom102618]

Some progression photos if you are interested!!

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, those options are just fine!

 

[StefanZ]

Just did another feed and it seems the smaller one is struggling to latch but is taking to the syringe well, had the full 2ml (as vet requested).
The larger one should be taking 2.5 but only took 1. Stronger latch but gave up on the feeding quicker. Maybe feeding from mama?
Since they are suckling I may try to pick up some smaller bottle nipples as the ones they gave are quite large. They have perked up slightly since the first feed I gave them around 8am, loud squeals. They seem to be doing well.

Yes, its common to be unsure if they really take from momma or what is happening. Its one of the main arguments for weight them... This way you know for sure if they are adding properly...
A very experienced rescuer or breeder can usually decide this just by hand and look; but a scale is necessary for every less experienced...
Its almost as with cooks...

 

[StefanZ]

Ah, the kittens are white! Is momma white / a point? "siamese-mix"?

It wouldnt surprise me the little ones are points... We will see in a few days if they darken up in ears, nose and other pointed body parts...

 

[catmom102618]

Ah, the kittens are white! Is momma white / a point? "siamese-mix"?

It wouldnt surprise me the little ones are points... We will see in a few days if they darken up in ears, nose and other pointed body parts...

Mama is not, will find a picture of her shaven as well as her usual length, she is grey and white but when we was groomed I realized she has a super cool pattern! Dad does have some markings so I think maybe he is? I just looked it up and looks similar to him

 

[StefanZ]

OK. So A guess is, dad is a "siamese-mix" and momma is a carrier of the point gene.
This will give half of kittens are "siamese-mixes", half are not (but are carriers of the gene)

 

[catmom102618]

OK. So A guess is, dad is a "siamese-mix" and momma is a carrier of the point gene.
This will give half of kittens are "siamese-mixes", half are not (but are carriers of the gene)

Mama Stormi is the grey yellow eyed (and obviously pregnant) one. Daddy is Dak, he is a cream colour with the darker nose/face blue eyes. Also darker “boots”, maybe tail I cannot remember and he is kept on the upper level right now while I tend to mama and kitties.

She will reside in my basement apartment until she can be spayed. She does miss him terribly, I brought her up once to see if she would use the upstairs litter that she typically prefers (so I could swap the litter location if needed). Kept him contained in my arms as he doesn’t mind being held. First thing they did was lick each others noses.

Pre pregnancy they seemed to hate eachother lol, and while we tried to separate for the most part when they were in heat they would actually avoid eachother! So while it was so stupid of me, I was shocked to see him mounting her early March.

 

[StefanZ]

The first photo, of a spotted point; is it daddy when he was shaved on whole body by some reason?

Any way, daddy is very apparently a point; blue point? Momma is not.... Both cats are of persian type. Not modern persians, but apparently persians of sorts... (ARE they purebred??)
So kittens should be longhaired points. You can compare them to Himalaya persians.

If they are friendly to each other and momma miss him, you can probably let them be together.... The probability is high he will co-parent.
Do supervise them at first occasions, of course.

The only real contra, is if he is still fertile (or freshly neutered) she can get pregnant anew... Cats are not protected by nursing.

Yeah, its common they get good pals AFTER the mating... Its even quite a sure sign; seemingly hostile cats are suddenly good pals - and so we know they had their mating... I mean, sometimes its difficult to know they mated, its not always she shrieks and is rolling around, sometime they do it quietly when nobody is nearby...

 

[catmom102618]

The first photo, of a spotted point; is it daddy when he was shaved on whole body by some reason?

Any way, daddy is very apparently a point; blue point? Momma is not.... Both cats are of persian type. Not modern persians, but apparently persians of sorts... (ARE they purebred??)
So kittens should be longhaired points. You can compare them to Himalaya persians.

If they are friendly to each other and momma miss him, you can probably let them be together.... The probability is high he will co-parent.
Do supervise them at first occasions, of course.

The only real contra, is if he is still fertile (or freshly neutered) she can get pregnant anew... Cats are not protected by nursing.

Yeah, its common they get good pals AFTER the mating... Its even quite a sure sign; seemingly hostile cats are suddenly good pals - and so we know they had their mating... I mean, sometimes its difficult to know they mated, its not always she shrieks and is rolling around, sometime they do it quietly when nobody is nearby...

Top photo is mama shaved.
About the kittens, I must have weighed them inaccurately as i was weighing them on a blanket and post feed. Stupid me. Now says the larger kitten is 83g, started at 79. So small gains. Smaller kitten is still same at 68g. They are now 24h old. Little one eats very consistently but does not suck the syringe as well as the larger kitten. However the larger kitten is not drinking the full 2-2.5ml. Maybe should attempt to feed more frequently or give a break? They have both passed stool once and urinate when stimulated. Not enough of course but they did miss feed in the beginning while before supplemented.

Stormi started leaving them for longer periods of time, not just to eat but to hide. I believe she found a “better” spot which would be fine but she can’t reliable care for them and it is way out of my reach. She picked a kitten up quite aggressively by the body or tail and trying to place them there. Then would lay next to them but not close enough to warm or tend to them. I was terrified she would do this while I slept and their body temp would drop so I did contact a vet and was advised to separate her from them and assume all care.

I placed a heat pad inside their box under the blanket and am monitoring the box temp but they do seem comfortable, sleeping, other than looking for mama from time to time.

Is this warming situation okay for now? I don’t have rice or oats to make a sock warmer but will pick up in the morning. I plan to bring them all in to the vet tomorrow to see what can be done and try to figure out if maybe she doesn’t have milk or if she does she can be shown how to nurse, maybe it’s all her hair that is getting in the way? Maybe she just doesn’t know what to do? She is somewhat protective of them. I have no idea but am devastated. Worried that they did not have colostrum. Worried about if they’re eating well enough if they’re healthy if they’ll start to gain more soon.

Any feeding tips to get the kittens to eat more/grow? What are your thoughts on separating them? It was such a hard choice to make but I knew she likely would leave them there uncared for and it would interfere.

 

[catmom102618]

Top photo is mama shaved.
About the kittens, I must have weighed them inaccurately as i was weighing them on a blanket and post feed. Stupid me. Now says the larger kitten is 83g, started at 79. So small gains. Smaller kitten is still same at 68g. They are now 24h old. Little one eats very consistently but does not suck the syringe as well as the larger kitten. However the larger kitten is not drinking the full 2-2.5ml. Maybe should attempt to feed more frequently or give a break? They have both passed stool once and urinate when stimulated. Not enough of course but they did miss feed in the beginning while before supplemented.

Stormi started leaving them for longer periods of time, not just to eat but to hide. I believe she found a “better” spot which would be fine but she can’t reliable care for them and it is way out of my reach. She picked a kitten up quite aggressively by the body or tail and trying to place them there. Then would lay next to them but not close enough to warm or tend to them. I was terrified she would do this while I slept and their body temp would drop so I did contact a vet and was advised to separate her from them and assume all care.

I placed a heat pad inside their box under the blanket and am monitoring the box temp but they do seem comfortable, sleeping, other than looking for mama from time to time.

Is this warming situation okay for now? I don’t have rice or oats to make a sock warmer but will pick up in the morning. I plan to bring them all in to the vet tomorrow to see what can be done and try to figure out if maybe she doesn’t have milk or if she does she can be shown how to nurse, maybe it’s all her hair that is getting in the way? Maybe she just doesn’t know what to do? She is somewhat protective of them. I have no idea but am devastated. Worried that they did not have colostrum. Worried about if they’re eating well enough if they’re healthy if they’ll start to gain more soon.

Any feeding tips to get the kittens to eat more/grow? What are your thoughts on separating them? It was such a hard choice to make but I knew she likely would leave them there uncared for and it would interfere.

Not enough weight gain** but I do think they are urinating and passing stool at a normal rate.

 

[Sarthur2]

I do not agree with separating them from mom!

You DO need to syringe feed every 1-2 hours with formula though. As they get stronger they will begin to suckle harder and nurse mom. They need their mom for milk and comfort.

Here is a helpful video for feeding:

Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady

C catmom102618

 

[catmom102618]

I do not agree with separating them from mom!

You DO need to syringe feed every 1-2 hours with formula though. As they get stronger they will begin to suckle harder and nurse mom. They need their mom for milk and comfort.

Here is a helpful video for feeding:

Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady

C catmom102618

They simply don’t seem to want to eat. I’m still waiting on the nipples I ordered they should come today. I agree they should be with mom. But she literally bites them so aggressively they squeal and seem to be in pain. Should I try to put like a pet bed in the spot that she wants and place the kittens there in front of her and see if she will tend to them? To avoid injury. She does not seem to have milk whatsoever. I see nothing coming from her nipples.

Is it okay if they’re only feeding like 1ml at a time? They refuse any more and it’s hard enough to get them to feed as it is. Just trying to keep them warm and feed them what I can as often as I can.

 

[catmom102618]

They simply don’t seem to want to eat. I’m still waiting on the nipples I ordered they should come today. I agree they should be with mom. But she literally bites them so aggressively they squeal and seem to be in pain. Should I try to put like a pet bed in the spot that she wants and place the kittens there in front of her and see if she will tend to them? To avoid injury. She does not seem to have milk whatsoever. I see nothing coming from her nipples.

Is it okay if they’re only feeding like 1ml at a time? They refuse any more and it’s hard enough to get them to feed as it is. Just trying to keep them warm and feed them what I can as often as I can.

She’s putting them directly on the floor in an inaccessible area. I assume she wants privacy but I need to feed them also and afraid she will just leave them on the floor to roam. Which is why I’m thinking maybe pet bed or even buy a new shallow litter pan

 

[Sarthur2]

Pet bed would be fine. 1mL is about all they can eat at each feeding right now, as they are small. Try every 1-2 hours. Mom’s milk should come in once they begin suckling. They are clearly not strong enough to do so yet. Hang in there!

 

[catmom102618]

Pet bed would be fine. 1mL is about all they can eat at each feeding right now, as they are small. Try every 1-2 hours. Mom’s milk should come in once they begin suckling. They are clearly not strong enough to do so yet. Hang in there!

They have been doing much better with feeding with the miracle nipple dupes I got off Amazon!! I have watched the kitten lady videos on stimulation but noticed the kittens were slightly older and larger than mine and am unsure if my kittens poops be that thick yellow consistency currently? They have both passed their first dark, sticky stools since my last post but they must have stimulated themselves and am unsure if they’ve had runny poops? I cleaned them up well. I read that maybe switching to the powder formula will help that. Still just doing my best with these babies, they are moving around seem to have energy and gaining strength.

 

[Sarthur2]

I always recommend powdered formula. Pre-mixed seems to always cause diarrhea.