Runs in multiple cats.

[Krienze]

Hi, friends. I'd like to preface this by saying this post is not about my cats. I'm posting for a friend, who is afraid of coming to forums like this. She's had bad experiences in the past in other forums. I've tried to tell her that TCS is amazing but she's super gunshy about joining to ask for help. Her biggest fear is that she'll be told to go to the vet again, even though she's done that already.

The situation:
She has about eleven cats at this point. Too many for her, but she keeps taking them in. Some were not fixed (she has since pulled the money together to get them fixed)
One had kittens and one of the kittens had runny poop all the time. She took him to the vet, the vet gave meds. The meds didn't work. Several vet visits later, the kitten is still sick and the vet tells her it's an infection. Before she knows it, almost all of the cats are sick with the runs. No meds or vet advice seems to be working and the vet tells her it's a infection, but when I asked she said the vet didn't tell her the name of the infection.

She's spent countless $$ already to treat these cats and has even surrendered the original sick one (but directly after the others got sick) in hopes that he could be helped. Now no shelters will take the kittens in the area and she's worried she won't be able to continue to afford their treatment (she's on disability and doesn't have a huge income, she's been borrowing to treat these cats left and right.)

My two questions:
1 - Does ANYONE have any suggestions on to how to help with the runs?? Or any ideas? We're at a loss since the vet doesn't seem to be any help at all and...

2.... does this strike anyone else as odd that the vet didn't put a name to the infection? My gut is telling me something is fishy with this vet, but she seems to trust them since a friend uses them. Part of me is very worried this vet knows she can bleed my friend dry.

 

[Furballsmom]

hooo, boy.
I don't have experience with this or anything like this, however, and realizing it's somewhat controversial in that some people say it does nothing, but what about L-Lysine to try and support their immune systems? A little unflavored canned pumpkin for fiber?
What about this for hydration including for cats from TheKittenLady;
One way to help address hydration in kittens with diarrhea is to provide an electrolyte solution in place of water. Rather than mix the kitten's powder formula with water, you can switch to using unflavored Pedialyte.** Pedialyte contains an optimal balance of glucose and electrolytes that will help rehydrate the kitten and keep the muscles and organs functioning properly. Be sure to use a flavorless product and to keep it fresh according to the label's instructions.

Pedialtye this is homemade recipes

Is she cleaning the litterboxes like a madwoman? What is she feeding them, and is she keeping EVERYthing scrupulously clean on a daily basis including the water bowls? Speaking of water, is it filtered?

Also, these may help--;
No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat’s Life – TheCatSite Articles

Find a Veterinarian and Practice | The Cat Community

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'm thinking this may be some parasite or something rather than an infection, although apparently some Vets call any parasites "infections", or so I have read. Did that Vet ever do a fecal? I would think that needs to be done, and it doesn't even require the cat, just a stool sample be taken in to be tested. This could be giardia or coccidia, or T-foetus. Or it could be from a variety of different viruses, which really can't be treated with medication, since they are viruses, you just have to manage the symptoms (hydration, etc). It would be really helpful if your friend could call the clinic and ask someone to get the records and find out exactly what the infection is.

As mentioned above, adding pumpkin to their food might be helpful, and definitely keeping them hydrated is a must. But if it's a parasite, they definitely need medication for that.

Are they all still eating as usual. Is diarrhea the only issue? If so, I'm leaning more towards a parasite. With viruses, they tend more towards losing their appetites, losing weight, running fevers, that type of thing, along with the diarrhea.

 

[fionasmom]

Do you have any idea what was given to the cats, or what was written in the chart? The paperwork is the property of your friend if she wants to see it. This could lead to an estrangement with this vet, but it might answer some questions.

Has your friend tried probiotics, although their success is dependent on the cause of the diarrhea?

 

[epona]

My boys past and present, 3 of them at the time, all got a mystery stomach bug one summer (that we refer to as "The S**tpocalypse" - sorry if I've crossed a line by saying that btw, please feel free to delete it if need be) - a couple of months on a special Gastro-Intestinal diet with probiotics sorted it out ok and it never happened again.

No illness or parasites were detected with blood and fecal tests - just seemed to be some sort of imbalance in normal gastric bacteria rather than an illness or infestation.

I hope it is nothing more serious with yours and that they are back to normal soon.

 

[Jcatbird]

I am not a vet and can only tell you what I have experienced with cats here and with our vets. My heart goes out to the friend who is desperately trying to save these kitties. I understand about wanting to be off the radar when caring for so many. People can be harsh sometimes if they don’t understand the whole situation.
Since it spread, I am wondering about Coccidia. It is fairly common in ferals and rescues and I ran into that more than once with ferals here. I noticed it first in the kittens. I can see that a shelter might refuse kittens with this issue because shelter environments are likely to spread these things. Do you know if the surrendered kitten was diagnosed at the shelter? IF the vet is truly good, a fecal sample should be the only thing needed to determine this. A sample from one that tests positive would probably give a good direction to go and be low cost , or since the person has been paying, maybe a highly discounted cost. It would mean medicine given to them but might be the answer. For now, pumpkin has helped us a lot! Plain canned puréed pumpkin. If it is not in season there, Weruva makes canned cat food that contains pumpkins. Some of the pumpkin that can be bought for cats is almost soupy and has lots of moisture to help hydrate. Do the kitties have fleas? Fleas spread parasites fairly easily as a host to transmit them. There are things like tapeworm meds that the vet should be willing to prescribe since the cats have already been seen. Some , like tapeworms meds, can be found through Chewy. The vet can guide your friend on this via a phone call. An email, text or phone calls are usually accepted by good vets. A poop sample should be accepted as well though there may be a charge for testing it. If there is infection, the friend needs to know more. Questions to a good vet are usually welcomed because vets know that people who love animals and follow up are well worth answering. If all else fails, maybe this is not the right vet for kitties? Some vets work more with other kinds of animals. Please do keep us posted. Also, tell the friend to keep any healthy cats away from the sick ones if possible. Use a small amount of Clorox and water to clean things the cats use and let it dry well for a couple of hours at least before letting cats near them since bleach is not good for cats to be around.
Lastly, is there a rescuer or TNR group near? An anonymous call from the friend to feel them out for information or help can often lead to help. I was once in a situation trying to protect cats and found that rescue groups are an excellent resource. It led to many happy and healthy cats as well as adoptions into good homes for large numbers and safety for me and for them. I am now deeply involved with the groups here and am so glad that I made the calls to find them. Sending much love and hope that way and to you. You are a great friend to reach out here for them all.

 

[Krienze]

First, thank you all for your replies and kindness. I'm passing info on to my friend here and there. There's a lot of replies here so I'm going to try and answer everyone!

- Yes, she had a fecal test done to rule out worms and bacteria.
- She says yes, they are all eating and playing. The only exception is one of the kitten, whom seems to prefer staying near her.
- The meds given were "metronidazole, Ab-something" is what she had sent me. She also says they were given probiotics and specialized food (which I assume is Hills, since that is what the vet gave us when Jasper was sick.)
- She's very diligent about them so I do assume she's cleaning the boxes well, however they're going outside of the boxes on carpet and floors. From the picture she sent me, they seem to favor the corners. She says poop just comes out of them sometimes. S**tpocalypse is definitely a fitting description!
- I do know she doesn't want to rehome as she loves them all, but she's looked into rescues in hopes of doing the best thing for them (as i'm pretty sure her biggest fear is not being able to keep affording proper care - i sent her the info that you guys gave about that!) and everywhere she has called in her area is telling her they aren't taking anymore cats.
- No fleas! She says none of them ever had them, either.
- She says the poop is orange now.
- They turn their noses up at pumpkin =(

Thank you all for replies! I'm going to ask about the filters. I know she replaces bowls a lot, but I think she was getting them stainless steal bowls.

 

[Jcatbird]

She obviously loves them greatly! Bravo to her and please tell her she has my deepest gratitude for all she is doing for them.
That antibiotic covers a lot of things. I can tell you that if it were Coccidia, in one of the kittens here (found as a single orphan) it took three rounds of meds to clear her up. She also had a bad case of hookworms. Some parasites and protozoan are hard to catch on tests and a vet may treat based on symptoms. The parasites sort of produce results in cycles so if tested when nothing is actively present, it can be an educated guess. It may be that she needs to be sure the vet understand the antibiotic did not clear it up yet. When I have required large amounts of some meds, my vet sent the prescription in to a regular pharmacy as though it were for a human and it was super inexpensive that way. ( A whole colony had to be treated) I don’t know if that is even an option here but worth asking. It is super important to keep all poo cleaned up ASAP. Parasites/protozoans/bacteria must be cleaned away quickly. If Clorox can’t be used a steam cleaner can. It would help. I had one for steaming wrinkles out of clothing that worked for spot cleaning. It won’t help for an entire carpet but if they go in a favored place it will. I removed all carpeting long ago. I now have painted or polished concrete in some rooms and tile in others. Budget friendly. During the time I had three litters and three mom cats with Coccidia at once, concrete became my friend. Lol For the kitten that isn’t eating, the kitten lady link given above is a good one. There is a recipe there for kitten glop. Lifesaving nutrition. Simple ingredients and may help. A bland diet may help but also, it takes time for antibiotics to work.
When I suggested rescue groups, that is not really for rehoming. Those are often very experienced people who may have ideas that can help. Maybe even just a friendly person to offer a shoulder or know of discount services. If she qualifies as a senior , or close, ask for senior discounts everywhere! Part of getting help is being connected to other cat lovers. She is not alone in her struggle to help these kitties. Many of us have been where she is now and some are there now. Please send her this message. She is not alone and we will try to be supportive for her and the kitties. The last colony I worked on meant I was working to save over a hundred feral cats and kittens. I am older, live on a budget and have vision problems. I could not have done it all if I had not started making phone calls and found this site. Spays and neuters were expensive. Vet bills mounted. Some pet food companies sent me coupons for food and litter. Tell her to call everywhere. She can call anonymously until they tell her what help they can offer. If one place turns her down, tell her to ask them if they know of anyone who might be able to help of have any good suggestions. One day we have no help but the very next day something turns up. Never give up because she is awesome! She is a cat guardian and a kitty hero. We can’t save them all but every life counts. There is strength in numbers and the numbers are here.

 

[Krienze]

She obviously loves them greatly! Bravo to her and please tell her she has my deepest gratitude for all she is doing for them.
That antibiotic covers a lot of things. I can tell you that if it were Coccidia, in one of the kittens here (found as a single orphan) it took three rounds of meds to clear her up. She also had a bad case of hookworms. Some parasites and protozoan are hard to catch on tests and a vet may treat based on symptoms. The parasites sort of produce results in cycles so if tested when nothing is actively present, it can be an educated guess. It may be that she needs to be sure the vet understand the antibiotic did not clear it up yet. When I have required large amounts of some meds, my vet sent the prescription in to a regular pharmacy as though it were for a human and it was super inexpensive that way. ( A whole colony had to be treated) I don’t know if that is even an option here but worth asking. It is super important to keep all poo cleaned up ASAP. Parasites/protozoans/bacteria must be cleaned away quickly. If Clorox can’t be used a steam cleaner can. It would help. I had one for steaming wrinkles out of clothing that worked for spot cleaning. It won’t help for an entire carpet but if they go in a favored place it will. I removed all carpeting long ago. I now have painted or polished concrete in some rooms and tile in others. Budget friendly. During the time I had three litters and three mom cats with Coccidia at once, concrete became my friend. Lol For the kitten that isn’t eating, the kitten lady link given above is a good one. There is a recipe there for kitten glop. Lifesaving nutrition. Simple ingredients and may help. A bland diet may help but also, it takes time for antibiotics to work.
When I suggested rescue groups, that is not really for rehoming. Those are often very experienced people who may have ideas that can help. Maybe even just a friendly person to offer a shoulder or know of discount services. If she qualifies as a senior , or close, ask for senior discounts everywhere! Part of getting help is being connected to other cat lovers. She is not alone in her struggle to help these kitties. Many of us have been where she is now and some are there now. Please send her this message. She is not alone and we will try to be supportive for her and the kitties. The last colony I worked on meant I was working to save over a hundred feral cats and kittens. I am older, live on a budget and have vision problems. I could not have done it all if I had not started making phone calls and found this site. Spays and neuters were expensive. Vet bills mounted. Some pet food companies sent me coupons for food and litter. Tell her to call everywhere. She can call anonymously until they tell her what help they can offer. If one place turns her down, tell her to ask them if they know of anyone who might be able to help of have any good suggestions. One day we have no help but the very next day something turns up. Never give up because she is awesome! She is a cat guardian and a kitty hero. We can’t save them all but every life counts. There is strength in numbers and the numbers are here.

Thank you! I will let her know. She's such a good hearted person, I know she really is doing the best for these cats.

I know they are eating friskies pate and purina kitten chow for dry (she doesn't have money for anything else - the kittens are 6mo old and refuse to shift off the kitten chow. They will hunger strike if/when she tries.)

I know money is tight for her, so I bought her two large stainless steel water bowls in hopes that she can replace the plastic bowls with them, so i'm hoping that helps a bit.

She did show me messages where she was talking to a rescue, but then they just started ignoring her =( I'm going to start suggesting she call companies though! With luck some will help! In the meantime I bought her a case of 40 cans of the friskies since one of her issues is also walmart selling out.

 

[Krienze]

Update:

The kittens still have the runs, though it's worse than I realized. They're pooping up walls, on furniture, etc. At this point, I can't imagine it's healthy for my friend. She tried to find another vet, but his prices are insane.

I found a new dry food for her. It's not the best quality, but it's what she can afford and it'll stop them hopefully from eating kitten kibble - since part of me wonders if that's got a hand in making their stomachs upset. She's started mixing water in it too and they seem to like that at least.

I also ordered them stainless steal bowls for them to drink out of so I'm hoping that helps? We'll see.

She found some poop that must have been hidden and she says she saw maggots in it. I, naturally, thought worms? But she says she hasn't seen worms in anything else. Does anyone know if worms would always be present?

Part of my concern is that she also believes some of them are pooping outside of the box on purpose. One is pooping on her chair, which he has to actively get up on before he goes. So I'm worried that this is also going to become learned behavior for them >.<

 

[fionasmom]

You are very kind to try to help. Given all the constraints with your friend, you are doing what seems logical. I don't know if anything in this article or thread will help.

The maggots/worms confusion could be just that and unless you see them you probably won't be sure. Personally, I think that maggots seems more of a long shot than worm. Does she have flies around who could be laying eggs? How crowded is her living area given that she has 11 cats? The one pooping on a chair does sound as if it is some kind of a learned behavior, or done out of perceived necessity if there are not enough litter boxes. I am not saying that this is all behavioral though, as it sounds like something has spread throughout her cats.

Diarrhea — Kitten Lady
4 month old kitten with chronic diarrhea

 

[Krienze]

You are very kind to try to help. Given all the constraints with your friend, you are doing what seems logical. I don't know if anything in this article or thread will help.

The maggots/worms confusion could be just that and unless you see them you probably won't be sure. Personally, I think that maggots seems more of a long shot than worm. Does she have flies around who could be laying eggs? How crowded is her living area given that she has 11 cats? The one pooping on a chair does sound as if it is some kind of a learned behavior, or done out of perceived necessity if there are not enough litter boxes. I am not saying that this is all behavioral though, as it sounds like something has spread throughout her cats.

Diarrhea — Kitten Lady
4 month old kitten with chronic diarrhea

I actually need to correct myself. It seems she has nine cats, not 11!

If I remember correctly, I believe she told me she has 6 litter boxes. But I could be wrong. In photos I have only ever seen 3. I'll ask when she's active on discord again!

She's never mentioned flies, though.

 

[Krienze]

Ok updating again. Spoke to her.

She says yes they do have flies.
9 cats, 6 boxes. But she doesn't have room to fit anymore.

She did however realize that the poop problems started AFTER her nephew asked her to take in his cat (who he plans on taking back once they move)

There's no peeing out of the box, just pooping though - which I would think if it was a territory/stress thing, there would be urine too right?

 

[fionasmom]

The plot thickens. Any cat I have ever had who marked did it with urine .So I agree with you that if it were territorial, there would be at least some urine marking or spraying. I have had cats who would not use litter boxes, including one right now who is a middle aged adult who very carefully uses a litter box with a pee pad in it, but no litter. That could be another possibility, especially with a larger number of cats....that the litter box is not appealing for poop. The reverse can happen, too. Cats who will poop in a litter box, but not pee yet are seemingly not marking territory.

Flies, well okay, maybe she is seeing maggots which might look just like tapeworms to the untrained eye.

So it appears then, the the nephew's cat may have brought something into the house. Does this cat have diarrhea?

 

[Krienze]

The plot thickens. Any cat I have ever had who marked did it with urine .So I agree with you that if it were territorial, there would be at least some urine marking or spraying. I have had cats who would not use litter boxes, including one right now who is a middle aged adult who very carefully uses a litter box with a pee pad in it, but no litter. That could be another possibility, especially with a larger number of cats....that the litter box is not appealing for poop. The reverse can happen, too. Cats who will poop in a litter box, but not pee yet are seemingly not marking territory.

Flies, well okay, maybe she is seeing maggots which might look just like tapeworms to the untrained eye.

So it appears then, the the nephew's cat may have brought something into the house. Does this cat have diarrhea?

No. The only cats that seem to have diarrhea are the kittens. The other cat seems fine, just upset to be at the house. From what I understand, the diarrhea started in one kitten and spread to the others, however the pooping outside of the box started when the other cat arrived.

 

[Krienze]

Update!!

Last night, one of the kittens couldn't walk. My friend rushed him to the emergency vet. They had trouble testing him, because of the state he was in. He was extremely fragile. But after running tests and getting him on some fluids (and showing my friend how to do it) he was able to go home.

Here is a DM my friend sent me:

"Dobby is sleeping a lot but he is walking without a limp, just slowly. He yelled at me for food when I woke up so he isn't 100% but he is a lot better than he was yesterday. I'm just letting him rest and cuddling/cleaning when I can because the vet said he was depressed so I am gonna love him up as much as I can. About to head out to stores to pick up the probiotic she said is better than the one I got. It seems the one I got is known for sometimes making things worse. Did wake up and Rebel pooped on my bed again but since then, no accidents. Also they all aren't leaking poop constantly. Fingers crossed.

Tritrichomonas foetus is what she thinks he has and needs Ronidazole if so because what he is on doesn't work as well. I will have to order Ronidazole if it comes back that he has it. But that is greatly effective against Tritrichomonas foetus."

The probiotic she was using was nutri-vet, by the way

 

[Furballsmom]

Wow

 

[Krienze]

Wow

I told her to have them check his WBC because when that happened to one of our kittens years ago, it ended up being a cancer. His white blood cell count was high though

 

[Krienze]

Hey all, I wanted to come back and give an update.

- One of the kittens started to walk funny, could barely walk. She took him to an emergency vet and he was treated there, but again the vet gave her medications and they didn't work.
- She tried changing the dry food and getting them off kitten kibble and for awhile that seemed to work to firm their poop up but... now everything is super soft again.
- The kitten that had collapsed and could barely walk, was doing fine but is now struggling to walk again.

No vet seems able to pinpoint what is causing it.
Her older cats all seem fine and have solid poops. It's just the kittens, who are 7 months old, who have this issue.

Other than the one kitten who collapsed, none of the other kittens are experiencing anything other than the runs.

 

[Krienze]

Hey, everyone. It's been months since I've updated this so I wanted to come in and just give everyone an update.

It seems most of the kittens, save for two, have gotten control of their poops. Of the two who haven't, one was the one who had trouble walking and today, sadly, he crossed over to rainbow bridge. The other kitten is doing fine, seems healthy other than the runs and does not seem to have any trouble with movement like the one who passed did.

I asked my friend if they ever tested the kittens for cancers, but she said the vets were only ever interested/worried about the poop.

=( I wish I had answers for her and I feel terrible that this has just gone unanswered (the issue with the cats, I mean! not the post!)