"Royal Canin Hypoallergenic HP"

[southpaw]

Anyone know anything about this food, or use it before? 

I posted a few weeks ago about Jinx, who was on C/D but he was vomiting up a storm so I switched his food. And it seemed to help at first but then he went right back to his old vomiting self.

So I brought him to work with me yesterday and we ran up a full bloodwork panel - CBC, chemistry profile, and T4. Just to cover our bases. All his values came back smack dab in the middle of normal. Which is great news, but doesn't leave us with much to work with!

At this point we are diagnosing him with IBD. I wanted to try starting him on a raw diet but they were talking up this prescription diet and I didn't really feel like I could turn it down. It is Royal Canin Hypoallergenic HP (hydrolyzed protein). It looks absolutely disgusting to me and it's really freaking expensive, but I suppose we'll have to give it a whirl. The reason we went with this food is because it also has the urinary health properties that are supposed to be in their S/O diet.

We're also doing a urinarlysis on him tomorrow... not really sure why, he's not having problems and he had one in November that was clean... vet's preference I guess. And then in 3 weeks we'll revisit the vomiting/food situation and see if any improvement has been made. Prednisone would be the next option but I'd rather try raw before doing that...

Anyway. Any input on hydrolyzed protein diets, or what does everyone on here do with their IBD kitties?

 

[violetxx]

Hi SouthPaw,

We just took our cat off a very similar food: http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Product/HAHypoallergenicCatFood.aspx

Our cat has a protein allergy, so our vet recommended putting her on this food Purina Hypoallergenic HA which has very similar ingredients and all the hydrolyzed proteins, etc. By putting her on this food we could be sure she had a protein allergy since their is no meat in this food. However, within about 4-5 weeks she developed diarrhea and the vet told us that it is common for cats on soy diets to eventually not be able to digest it.

IMO it worked great for us temporarily but is not a permanent food solution for them especially considering how POOR the ingredients are, the protein source is low quality and its filled with fillers, so your cats not getting any benefit from the food in the long run, potentially a short term benefit of reduced symptoms. Until her body can't take it anymore.

If your cat has urinary problems, putting him on a dry food will likely make it worse, since dry dehydrates whereas your cat needs moisture. As my vet said once: dilution is the solution to pollution.

I don't know much about kitty IBD but I would recommend researching it as much as possible and see what others have done.

Here's a link that may be useful, I enjoy reading her material:http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/inflammatory-bowel-disease/

All the best!

 

[carolina]

Did nothing for my IBD kitty Bugsy....I used it for quite a while actually, on it's own and mixed with Z/D.
It is not a good diet at ALL. A diet for a cat that has not a drop of meat..... Think about it - 100% vegetarian.... How does that start to make sense to our little carnivores? It doesn't.
Raw did wonders for Bugsy - small miracle - his IBD problems are gone. And they were severe.
PS: If your baby has urinary problems, the last thing you want is a dry diet..... Bugsy is on raw..... Even though he is not drinking water, he is peeing like a firetruck! It is a very healthy diet :nod:
There is no need for prescription, IMHO when you can do it the natural way..... There is not a better diet that helps more cats with IBD than raw..... Good luck!!

 

[hobo08]

I wouldn't feed it. If you can go raw then I would.

 

[ldg]

Unfermented soy is unhealthy for people, let alone carnivores.

From http://www.optimumchoices.com/Silent_epidemic.htm , scroll down to the section "Hidden Poison in Food"

Two very overlooked factors that could be affecting our glands and immune system in both people and pets, are the new foods introduced in our diet just within the last 30-40 years. As Americans, we eat soy mostly in unfermented forms, made into various processed imitation foods such as tofu, burgers, sausages, TVP chili, soymilk, soy cheese, and soy ice cream, as well as consuming large amounts of ‘hidden’ soy flour, protein and oil in most processed foods. So, what is the problem with eating all this soy? Isn’t soy a healthy food? Many doctors, including holistic doctor Andrew Weil, promote it. Dr. Weil even partners with a pet food brand containing soy that is marketed as a high-end super premium food, sold in health food stores and natural pet stores.

According to the extensively researched book, The Whole Soy Story: the dark side of America’s favorite health food, by Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN, the Chinese first started eating soybeans about 2,500 years ago, after they figured out how to ferment it. Somehow, the ancient Chinese knew that soybeans still contain many toxins after cooking and thus avoiding eating it until they learned to neutralize those toxins through fermentation. In traditional Asian diets, soy is only used in small amounts as a condiment, with pork, seafood and other animals providing the bulk of the protein. Only very recently has soy been eaten the way we typically eat it, consuming large amounts in an unfermented and often highly processed form. Soy was originally considered an inedible plant, used to fix nitrogen in the soil. Even today you can find people from farming families who remember that as the primary use of soy.

Unfortunately, consumption of soy can create many health issues, in both humans and animals. Following are some of the major problems caused by soy, as described by the Weston Price Foundation on their website:

High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking.

High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.

Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.

Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.

Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.

Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body’s requirement for B12.

Soy foods increase the body’s requirement for vitamin D.

Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.

Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.

Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods.

Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.


What all this scientific information boils down to is that soy can really screw up your body and your health. To understand this in human terms, all you have to do is read some of the stories of people whose health has been damaged by soy.

You may find this website helpful: http://www.ibdkitties.net/

 

[jennyr]

My vet recommended the R/C hypo-allergenic for Wellington to see if it would make any difference to him pulling fur out, while they did a skin biopsy and allergy tests. But it was only a short-term thing and made no difference to him anyway as he proved to have no allergies. So I think it is probably OK as an experimental thing while other things are tried, but not suitable long-term.

 

[southpaw]

I was really upset looking at the ingredients. No meat in a cat food? Only 23% protein? Nothing about it looks healthy. Sure, it may stop the vomiting... but at what cost...? I really can't imagine feeding this to him long term and it kind of drives me crazy that veterinarians recommend this.

We'll feed this bag to him and see how it goes. Is it bad that I'm kind of hoping it doesn't work? 

  I want the vomiting to stop, not just for me but it can't be comfortable to him. But God only knows what other issues being on this low-quality diet will cause.

Thanks for all your help guys. Lots of good info to consider! Ugghhh such a mess!

 

[carolina]

I was really upset looking at the ingredients. No meat in a cat food? Only 23% protein? Nothing about it looks healthy. Sure, it may stop the vomiting... but at what cost...? I really can't imagine feeding this to him long term and it kind of drives me crazy that veterinarians recommend this.

We'll feed this bag to him and see how it goes. Is it bad that I'm kind of hoping it doesn't work?    I want the vomiting to stop, not just for me but it can't be comfortable to him. But God only knows what other issues being on this low-quality diet will cause.

Thanks for all your help guys. Lots of good info to consider! Ugghhh such a mess!

You can feed that bag already transitioning to raw....

 

[brandy rowe]

I was really upset looking at the ingredients. No meat in a cat food? Only 23% protein? Nothing about it looks healthy. Sure, it may stop the vomiting... but at what cost...? I really can't imagine feeding this to him long term and it kind of drives me crazy that veterinarians recommend this.

We'll feed this bag to him and see how it goes. Is it bad that I'm kind of hoping it doesn't work? 

  I want the vomiting to stop, not just for me but it can't be comfortable to him. But God only knows what other issues being on this low-quality diet will cause.

Thanks for all your help guys. Lots of good info to consider! Ugghhh such a mess!

My Mario was on that HP for a few months and it did nothing for her vomiting either.  and she was on Purina HO until she finished a bag.  No luck there.  I have been trying to transition her to wet food but it seems wet food makes her vomit also   So this weekend I want to start my transition to raw.  Carolina and Laurie have had some great advice to give.

 

[southpaw]

I went to a raw food store today that grinds and packages their own raw. They gave me some samples of chicken, bison, turkey, pork, and deer. So I'll introduce that to him and see how he takes to it! And doing it this way would be cheaper than the rx diet.

His urinalysis came back clean as I expected. I got 7 days worth of metronidazole, 4 days of Cerenia, and they want to do b12 injections which I don't really know anything about so I'll have to do some reading!

If it doesn't improve in a couple weeks they recommended scoping him just to make sure it hasn't progressed to intestinal cancer.

Sounds like this diet doesn't have a good track record. He actually likes it more than his other food which is kind of unbelievable... Must be because it is new still.

 

[ldg]

In people with IBD or IBS, a change of diet to less processed foods, whole grains, less additives (colorings, texturizers, preservatives), and proper probiotics help manage the problem. The same holds true for animals - the key being a species-appropriate diet.

For cats, a species-appropriate diet means meat, organs, and bones. Cats don't go munching about in corn fields, they don't dig up carrots, and the only reason they hang around silos full of grain is to eat the mice and other small rodents making dinner of that grain.

Cats are designed to get all of their nutrition from animals. Their digestive systems are so specialized, they can't convert beta carotene into Vitamin A.

As so many people with kitties suffering from IBD have discovered, removing all of the things the cats are not designed to eat usually solves the problem. :rub:

 

[sugarcatmom]

 they want to do b12 injections which I don't really know anything about so I'll have to do some reading!
 

The B12 injections are probably a good idea. Some info for you on that: http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information

 

[carolina]

I went to a raw food store today that grinds and packages their own raw. They gave me some samples of chicken, bison, turkey, pork, and deer. So I'll introduce that to him and see how he takes to it! And doing it this way would be cheaper than the rx diet.
His urinalysis came back clean as I expected. I got 7 days worth of metronidazole, 4 days of Cerenia, and they want to do b12 injections which I don't really know anything about so I'll have to do some reading!
If it doesn't improve in a couple weeks they recommended scoping him just to make sure it hasn't progressed to intestinal cancer.
Sounds like this diet doesn't have a good track record. He actually likes it more than his other food which is kind of unbelievable... Must be because it is new still.

In people with IBD or IBS, a change of diet to less processed foods, whole grains, less additives (colorings, texturizers, preservatives), and proper probiotics help manage the problem. The same holds true for animals - the key being a species-appropriate diet.
For cats, a species-appropriate diet means meat, organs, and bones. Cats don't go munching about in corn fields, they don't dig up carrots, and the only reason they hang around silos full of grain is to eat the mice and other small rodents making dinner of that grain.
Cats are designed to get all of their nutrition from animals. Their digestive systems are so specialized, they can't convert beta carotene into Vitamin A.
As so many people with kitties suffering from IBD have discovered, removing all of the things the cats are not designed to eat usually solves the problem. :rub:

The B12 injections are probably a good idea. Some info for you on that: http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information

B-12 injections work IF your kitty is inf fact b-12 deficient, which is the case with some IBD kitties, but not all - you can test for b-12 deficiency easily - please do that before doing a trial with the injections..... There is no need for them if he is not deficient.

Great that you got some raw to start on..... I would do a few things though.....
One, I would put him on a good probiotic immediately.... I highly recommend (and so do both my vets, from different clinics) Proviable-DC.
Also, start slow - very slow. Don't just offer him a full meal and that's that.
If your kitty is being free-fed, the first thing to do, is to put him on a schedule - 3 times a day is good.....
Then you want to start feeding small quantities of the raw..... Does he eat wet? As soon as he goes on schedule, put him on all wet. From then on you will start your raw introduction - IF he eats wet. I started Bugsy (my IBD kiddo) with 1 tsp per meal - then I doubled the amount, removing the same amount of wet until that I had all raw and no wet. It took 8 days for him to eat 100% raw.
On that day, his problems disappeared - 100% and never showed up again. Yep, on the first day of him eating a full raw diet - GONE!
Introduce one protein at the time.
Start with Chicken, then move to turkey.
Even though raw LOOKS like WET, think KIBBLES when you are introducing - this is VERY important!!! Otherwise you will run into trouble - and this comes in the shape of vomit and diarrhea - NOT what you want for your baby. Always, always introduce raw slowly.
Once you introduce one protein, you can use that one as a base to introduce the second one.
On the first day you do 75% of the old protein and 25% of the new for all meals. If no problem, then you move to 50/50 on the next day - no problems, you move to 75% of the new, and 25% of the old.... until you get on 100% of the new one on the 4th day.
There are some theories that boneless diets might be better, more digestible, and safer for IBD kitties.... so once you introduce your kitty to raw, take a look at these diets: Rad Cat - see in the store Finder if they have a location near you - it is AWESOME; and Nature's Menu - they will ship to you, it is very affordable and so is shipping....
Hope this information is not too overwhelming for you......
Good luck!!

 

[carolina]

Something else to consider..... I would hold off on the Metronidazole for now..... Especially since you are going to transition him to raw.... you don't want to destroy his bacterial flora..... Plus, there might not be a need for it in the end.... Cerenia is good, and it might be all you need during your transition :nod:
As you transition, you will notice him getting better and better as you feed more raw/less commercial foods -
Food for thought anyways..... :2cts: FWIW...... I did SO many rounds of metro, I con't count on my fingers and toes.... some quite long term..... And in the end, while you are feeding a diet that causes inflammation, the problem just keeps returning..... So Metro is just a bandaid on these cases..... :nod:
If he has IBD and something in the food is causing inflammation - metro won't be of help - changing the food will :nod:

 

[southpaw]

Thank you very much! My dog was on raw for a little bit, so I have some familiarity and get the basics of it... But switching an IBD kitty is different territory.

He does get some wet food every day, yes. What is the reasoning behind going to an all wet diet before going to raw? Sorry, I should probably visit the raw feeding forum!

 

[ldg]

I didn't see your post!

If he's on convenia OR metronadizole, be aware that both are antibiotics and kill all the gut flora, both good and bad. If this were me, I would wait until the course of antibiotics is finished and he's been on probiotics without antibiotics for at least a few days.

As Carolina points out, raw is something he is not used to, and it's not like switching up cans of wet food. Further, he's got IBD and his GI system is not functioning properly right now.

Are these ground mixes supplemented? Are they with organs and bones? Do you know the percentages?

 

[carolina]

I didn't see your post!
If he's on convenia OR metronadizole, be aware that both are antibiotics and kill all the gut flora, both good and bad. If this were me, I would wait until the course of antibiotics is finished and he's been on probiotics without antibiotics for at least a few days.
As Carolina points out, raw is something he is not used to, and it's not like switching up cans of wet food. Further, he's got IBD and his GI system is not functioning properly right now.
Are these ground mixes supplemented? Are they with organs and bones? Do you know the percentages?

She said Cerenia, for the vomiting, not Convenia, the antibiotic..... Unless I missed the Convenia in another post :dk:

 

[carolina]

Thank you very much! My dog was on raw for a little bit, so I have some familiarity and get the basics of it... But switching an IBD kitty is different territory.
He does get some wet food every day, yes. What is the reasoning behind going to an all wet diet before going to raw? Sorry, I should probably visit the raw feeding forum!

It is much easier to transition a kitty from all wet to raw.... First of, easier to put on schedule..... Then easier to transition TO raw itself - as you can just reduce the amount of wet as you increase the amount of raw.
Also safer - you do not want to feed big quantities of raw and kibble on the same meal because the kibbles will slow down the digestion of the raw, making it stay longer in the digestive tract, and you risk bacterial issues.....

I am transitioning my little Lucky straight from kibble to raw, but at the moment she starts eating a decent amount of raw, I will completely pull the kibbles - the two do not go together.

 

[ldg]

She said Cerenia, for the vomiting, not Convenia, the antibiotic..... Unless I missed the Convenia in another post :dk:

Yeah, don't know where my brain is. I was wondering why convenia was in pill form. :doh3: Thanks for catching that.

 

[southpaw]

Are these ground mixes supplemented? Are they with organs and bones? Do you know the percentages?

They have supplemented and non-supplemented mixes. This what they put in the supplemented ones:

Wild Arctic Salmon Oil, Organic Safflower Oil, Organic Sunflower Oil, Organic Alfalfa Powder, Organic Kelp, Organic Dulse Flakes, Organic Psyllium Husk, Organic Turmeric Powder, Vitamin-Mineral Mix w/ Taurine

Most of their mixes include organs and bones as well, yes.... they have some that are boneless but I didn't see any that didn't have organs. Not sure of the percentages though. But I do know they are a pretty trusted source for raw pet foods, especially with the (few) holistic veterinarians in the area, so I feel pretty good about feeding their mixes.

And yes, it is Cerenia that he is on

Convenia would be easier LOL he is one of the thrashiest kitties I've ever had the pleasure to pill!

We will take it sloooow and easy over the next few weeks...