Resident kitten keeps playing rough with new kitten despite the new one not wanting to play

Glenn Martens

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My wife and I adopted our first kitten, a British shorthair male, last year. He arrived in the home on the 3rd of December. Seeing as how needy our first one is, we felt he could do well with a companion to keep him company for when we are busy with work, household chores, a movie etc.

so our second one arrived in our home on the 16th of January, some 10 days ago. Despite warning my wife about how to introduce them and having setup a spare bedroom as safe haven, she felt she wanted to show our resident kitten the new one and popped him right next to him in the basket. Although visibly worried our resident kitten did not lash out, he just backed away from the new one a bit and when I saw what was happening as I entered the living room I took the new one to his safe zone.

I tried beginning with the door feeding strategy, however the two of them would neigh immediately eat near the door without either of them showing any signs of stress, the little one might’ve looked up once during finishing his meal. I did this about 3-4 times bowls eventually against the door.

the little one growing tired of his room within a day, wanted to explore right away so apart from scent swapping between the two bedrooms with some socks etc. I let them out in turns to explore the living room and ground floor area. Although the new one is still finding his way he’s eyeing more and more confident especially when I’m behind him showing him the way through the house.

when letting our resident go through the home, I could see him sense the new kittens smell but he didn’t hiss growl spit or make any other noise that would indicate his dislike.

so we decided let’s put them face to face and see how it goes about 5-7 days in. With their one month age gap our resident cat is a lot bigger then the little one so when they engaged in play he quickly overpowered him. I think the force he used was too excessive and our new boy quickly retreated to hiding spots. This is pretty much every interaction between them. However when I feed them together, I can have the bowls literally adjacent to each other and them sitting next to each other without a problem. They’d even take turns eating from the same bowl without any hissing or growling..

I feel fairly lost right now because outside of eating it seems our resident cat wants nothing more then to play play or hunt, whatever it is and the little one engages him briefly and decides every time to run away, he never initiated the “play” either.

other useful information, both of them had not been neutered yet. The oldest was helped yesterday so we are still waiting for his hormone levels to drop right now to see if that could lift the tension a bit or his desire to always engage in hunt/play.

I have tried tiring him out before letting them in the same area but he somehow always has energy to spare when he sees the new kitten in the room.

Any advice would be much welcome. There is always the option to wait and take it slow but I feel if they can eat from the same bowl without any signs of stress, fear, or anger there might be something else I am overlooking as to why our oldest keeps engaging the way he does.
 

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This is totally normal and fine. Your wife was actually mostly correct, in that two kittens under 6 months essentially always become friends no matter what you do, rendering a traditional slow introduction process much less important then with older cats. With a size difference its very common for the smaller kitten to run, hide and hiss from the overly rough play of the bigger kitten or (even worse) young adult cat. As long as they come out in a few minutes and act like nothing happened, all is well. Things will get more equal in time -- kittens grow a pound a month so the % size difference will get much smaller fast.

Now it is true that sometimes the smaller kitten might be in some actual discomfort from the rough play. Think head noogies and indian sunburns -- i.e. nothing serious. So while you don't have too (because it will improve on its own), if you are around and have time, and the smaller kitten seems particularly miserable, you can gently distract them. Distract, don't discipline, because you don't want to discourage play. There is nothing to be gained from separating them for a few weeks, and they are likely already friends despite the fact that the small one may currently still have some mixed feelings.

So, bottom line, all is normal and well. They are on their way to a more equal friendship and already doing fine.
 
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Glenn Martens

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The initial interaction did not go anything like you said though, they sat next to one another, both tails were swatting and the little one chose to ONLY run and hide. I don’t think that’s a positive thing? He’d find a corner to hide and not come out unless I removed the older kitten and baited him with food or a toy.

he still does that even now if I let them interact for too long. I tried letting them interact multiple times during one day and it resulted in the smaller one finding a place to hide and not coming out even when the older one was long gone.

seeing some sign of improvement today though, albeit it mildly, I guess patience will do the trick in the end.
 

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Ah ok, I should have mentioned that if the little one is constantly hiding or especially not eating/using the litterbox thats more of an issue then if they come right out a few minutes after rough play. Still, if its just hiding a lot, after only a couple of days of togetherness and your already seeing progress, I wouldn't worry about it. It wouldn't be unusual even for kittens to take a week or so to get used to another pet.

I don't want to be dismissive of it, but it just always seems to work out when they are this young. We have a lot of threads about long term problems here, but I can't remember a single one about two kittens under 6 months having a long term issue. So as long as your little one is eating and using the box, a little extra hiding after only a couple of days of unlimited interactions doesn't cause me much concern.
 
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Glenn Martens

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Ah ok, I should have mentioned that if the little one is constantly hiding or especially not eating/using the litterbox thats more of an issue then if they come right out a few minutes after rough play. Still, if its just hiding a lot, after only a couple of days of togetherness and your already seeing progress, I wouldn't worry about it. It wouldn't be unusual even for kittens to take a week or so to get used to another pet.

I don't want to be dismissive of it, but it just always seems to work out when they are this young. We have a lot of threads about long term problems here, but I can't remember a single one about two kittens under 6 months having a long term issue. So as long as your little one is eating and using the box, a little extra hiding after only a couple of days of unlimited interactions doesn't cause me much concern.
well ever since my post, things are not looking that great. The older one seems to have a need to assert his dominance during play every time they interact. He’d jump the lil guy in the neck and bite him until the smaller one meows and starts growling, seemingly in pain. If I let them at it for a bit longer I get big swatting tails & the older one comes into the smaller with even more fierce moves.

I cannot seem to be able to keep them in the same area for more than 5-10 minutes before things escalate. The only time I am able to let them peacefully sit next to each other is when they are eating. Other than that I need to keep them in separate rooms at all times.

should I just let them have a go at it? I’m worried the little one will be hurt/scared if I let it go on for too long.
 

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other useful information, both of them had not been neutered yet. The oldest was helped yesterday so we are still waiting for his hormone levels to drop right now to see if that could lift the tension a bit or his desire to always engage in hunt/play.
Hi Glenn Martens Glenn Martens ...I am a little confused about the above info....Not quite sure what ..."The oldest was helped yesterday"...means?
So both male kittens have NOT been neutered yet?
How old is each kitten?
What are their names?

And can you post a few photos...to see the size differences?
How To Add A Picture To Your Forum Post – TheCatSite Articles
How To Upload And Add Videos To Your Posts – TheCatSite Articles
well ever since my post, things are not looking that great. The older one seems to have a need to assert his dominance during play every time they interact. He’d jump the lil guy in the neck and bite him until the smaller one meows and starts growling, seemingly in pain. If I let them at it for a bit longer I get big swatting tails & the older one comes into the smaller with even more fierce moves.
Yes, it sounds like he's either trying to dominate, by biting on the neck,...or his testosterone is high...driving him to display instinctual mating behaviours.
If the little one is in pain, and cannot escape...and is not willing to come back...then there is a problem.
I cannot seem to be able to keep them in the same area for more than 5-10 minutes before things escalate. The only time I am able to let them peacefully sit next to each other is when they are eating. Other than that I need to keep them in separate rooms at all times.

should I just let them have a go at it? I’m worried the little one will be hurt/scared if I let it go on for too long.
How are they with you....when you play...separately with each cat?
Do they fully engage...do they have favorite toys?

(I know it's a lot of questions...but it will give us a better picture of what's going on.)
 
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Glenn Martens

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7AE0B770-44C3-4A40-816B-5BED0DA8DCBE.jpeg

Oldest one on the left ( Pichu ) , youngest on the right ( Raichu ).

What I meant with got helped yesterday, he was neutered last Tuesday, the youngest is yet to be neutered. In the Netherlands the age to Neuter kittens is at 6 months. I pushed forward Pichu his neutering as they weren’t getting along and I read this was one of the first things to try to reduce aggression.

Raichu sadly has a complication with one of his testicles not having settled yet and being stuck within its stomach. Vet advised me to wait to see if it will still settle naturally so neutering him right away is not an option at the moment.

Pichu was born on 10 September 2020. Raichu 19 October 2020.

Pichu is slow to start with play but he gets extremely hyperactive. He would start sprinting up and down the stairs and fly through the whole home when engaged in play. In terms of toys he doesn’t really have a favorite, he gets bored of the same thing rather quickly and has a short attention span most of the time. He loves to play chase with my wife however. He makes this face and a short high pitch meow which I’ve come to understand means “follow me” or “come at me”. When we give chase he keeps waiting until we find him, then sprints onto the next spot. Sometimes the roles reverse and he chases my wife instead while she hides.

Raichu has a favorite toy, small ball with a string attached to it. When I shake the ball he comes running neigh immediately most of the time. He also however has a relatively short attention span, he prefers to roam around the place and do stuff on his own mostly, be it pulling a piece of string from one end to the other end of the room, or simply lay about and look outside at birds, cars, etc.. When approaching Raichu with whatever he’s doing he always looks up and unleashes a few deep Meows, I have come to understand this as a greeting of some kind as he greets me the same way when I wake up in the morning and look at him. He’s also rather lazy, prefers to slow play rarely goes on the full chase. I’ve seen him try engage pichu in the occasional play but he never commits to jump at him, pretty much the same as how he does with toys, he sometimes runs at a toy until he’s right in front of it and then suddenly decides to slow down and stop in his tracks. He prefers to hold a toy between his paws and kick and punch at it rather than chasing something I’ve come to find out.

I’ve tried using interactive toys while I put them together but it seems only Raichu looks up and engages with the toys. Pichu barely pays attention to the toy and once he’s lost interest he goes for Raichu again.
 
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Glenn Martens

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8E7F5388-A246-4487-A083-D6F78C0AB65A.jpg

Snapshotted a moment in the videos that hopefully should depict the size differential correctly
 

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Here’s another photo. I have some videos but won’t let me upload directly from phone. I’ll try something else
Wow. Your kittens are gorgeous! :loveeyes:
Both Pichu and Raichu....look like rounded balls of fluffy fur.
Like cute little teddy bears...and very soft looking.
Yes, I can see the size difference quite well in the last photo.:thumbsup:

(Not sure about how to actually upload videos from phone. I know the Site has a 25MB limit...and I think only in mp4 format.
Someone posted this 'reduce video file size online'...online website...but I have never tried it either...so I'm not much help, here.
Reduce Video File Size Online, Make Video Smaller (MP4, AVI, MOV, MPEG) | VideoSmaller Not sure about how it works, or privacy issues and all that.

I do know that some members post their videos on to youtube...and then 'embed' them into their posts. But that seems like more work.)
Embed videos
 
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Glenn Martens

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Wow. Your kittens are gorgeous! :loveeyes:
Both Pichu and Raichu....look like rounded balls of fluffy fur.
Like cute little teddy bears...and very soft looking.
Yes, I can see the size difference quite well in the last photo.:thumbsup:

(Not sure about how to actually upload videos from phone. I know the Site has a 25MB limit...and I think only in mp4 format.
Someone posted this 'reduce video file size online'...online website...but I have never tried it either...so I'm not much help, here.
Reduce Video File Size Online, Make Video Smaller (MP4, AVI, MOV, MPEG) | VideoSmaller Not sure about how it works, or privacy issues and all that.

I do know that some members post their videos on to youtube...and then 'embed' them into their posts. But that seems like more work.)
Embed videos
seem to be unable to get them in a format that would load. I recognize occasionally they'd play with one another but it's kind of a hit or miss when I put them together right now and no matter what, it always ends badly, and with me having to take them apart. Will it eventually maybe resolve itself when their percentual size becomes less of an issue. I reckon in a week or two they'd be less than a pound apart more or less? I don't see any option for leaving them alone right now, things would escalate into a full-fledged furry fury
 

cat nap

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Oldest one on the left ( Pichu ) , youngest on the right ( Raichu ).

What I meant with got helped yesterday, he was neutered last Tuesday, the youngest is yet to be neutered. In the Netherlands the age to Neuter kittens is at 6 months. I pushed forward Pichu his neutering as they weren’t getting along and I read this was one of the first things to try to reduce aggression.

Raichu sadly has a complication with one of his testicles not having settled yet and being stuck within its stomach.
Vet advised me to wait to see if it will still settle naturally so neutering him right away is not an option at the moment.

Pichu was born on 10 September 2020. Raichu 19 October 2020.
Thank you for the added details. It really helps.

So Pichu will be 5 months next week....and Raichu is about 3.5 months, now.
They are very close in age...and Pichu does have a size advantage...over Raichu...but probably soon it will all be more equal, as Raichu grows.

It's good that Pichu is already neutered,...and you are right...with time the testosterone levels will lessen...not disappear...just lessen...but he will still have that wild and carefree kitten energy....but yes...aggression should lessen also...with the neutering.
Hopefully, Raichu's testicle does descend, in the next month or so,...so that the neuter is easier to do.
Pichu is slow to start with play but he gets extremely hyperactive. He would start sprinting up and down the stairs and fly through the whole home when engaged in play. In terms of toys he doesn’t really have a favorite, he gets bored of the same thing rather quickly and has a short attention span most of the time. He loves to play chase with my wife however. He makes this face and a short high pitch meow which I’ve come to understand means “follow me” or “come at me”. When we give chase he keeps waiting until we find him, then sprints onto the next spot. Sometimes the roles reverse and he chases my wife instead while she hides.
That playing chase with the humans sounds awesome. :blush: :clover: Like 'hide and go seek'. :)
Really good exercise for both cat and humans, too.
Raichu has a favorite toy, small ball with a string attached to it. When I shake the ball he comes running neigh immediately most of the time. He also however has a relatively short attention span, he prefers to roam around the place and do stuff on his own mostly, be it pulling a piece of string from one end to the other end of the room, or simply lay about and look outside at birds, cars, etc.. When approaching Raichu with whatever he’s doing he always looks up and unleashes a few deep Meows, I have come to understand this as a greeting of some kind as he greets me the same way when I wake up in the morning and look at him. He’s also rather lazy, prefers to slow play rarely goes on the full chase. I’ve seen him try engage pichu in the occasional play but he never commits to jump at him, pretty much the same as how he does with toys, he sometimes runs at a toy until he’s right in front of it and then suddenly decides to slow down and stop in his tracks. He prefers to hold a toy between his paws and kick and punch at it rather than chasing something I’ve come to find out.
That is very interesting. So they have different 'play styles'....with Pichu wanting to chase and run more...and the younger Raichu prefers a slower, more thoughtful approach.
Also interesting that Raichu....seems to like more independent Play.
(These 'play styles' may change in the future...though...since when the kittens learn from each other by watching each other...and engaging, interacting, playing....they often times ...learn each other's moves.)
I’ve tried using interactive toys while I put them together but it seems only Raichu looks up and engages with the toys. Pichu barely pays attention to the toy and once he’s lost interest he goes for Raichu again.
That makes sense that Pichu loses interest in a toy...so fast...since....to him the best 'toy' in the room....would be Raichu.
To Pichu...having Raichu around ... who he can chase, wrestle, run, and tumble with...makes for way more fun...than any interactive toy...could ever do.
There are some interesting ideas for making your own 'puzzle feeders'...but you just have to always supervise...and make sure they are safe to be around kittens....who like to chew on everything.
Homemade Puzzles - Food Puzzles for Cats

I would suggest, ...that you try and concentrate a bit...on Building up Raichu's Confidence.
You've already begun doing this...by walking with him through the home...spending time with him.
So now...if you could Play with Raichu...using some sort of 'wand toy' ...or 'fishing pole toy'...with an attached cat toy on the end of a string...(similar to the one you said that Raichu already likes.)...then this would increase his Confidence even more.

He also has to leave his Scent everywhere within the home, ...so that all things smell like him, ..so he is not worried about exploring or increasing his own territory. (Remember to 'kitten proof' all areas, beforehand,...just to protect both kittens.)

With Pichu...you do the same thing...as in Playing with a 'wand toy'...or fishing pole toy...but the aim...is more to be able to focus his attention on the toy...and thereby...being able to Distract him with the toy, too.
You're Playing with both kittens...in the same way....but have different goals in mind. One to build Confidence.
And the other to train for Focus and Distraction.

What ArtNJ mentioned above is very true. All is normal and fine.
Though, Sometimes one kitten can be a little too rough...and does not back off...or bites too hard...to cause the little one pain.
When this does happen,...it is good to intervene,..at times,...just to show and teach the older kitten....not to be so rough...and to let the younger one escape...and have time to come back. You can always just pick up Pichu, with a towel, ...and give him a very short 'time-out' in another room...if he is biting too hard...or not letting Raichu up, at all.

Refereeing at these times...will help build Raichu's confidence, too, since he will not get totally upset,...and it will also establish 'house rules'...for both cats...in that overly painful playfighting is not allowed.


Make sure to arrange your furniture, with plenty of 'Escape routes' for the kittens, too. High areas and low areas. Cat trees and cat beds on the floor, too. No 'dead ends'...or corners where they cannot escape from.
Use cardboard boxes, pillows, chairs, side tables...as a bit of an obstacle course...where the younger kitten can hide behind...and use to escape to, or run behind.

But I really think that with some more time...Raichu will get more Confident...and will stand up to Pichu...and their playing will be more even.
 

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seem to be unable to get them in a format that would load. I recognize occasionally they'd play with one another but it's kind of a hit or miss when I put them together right now and no matter what, it always ends badly, and with me having to take them apart. Will it eventually maybe resolve itself when their percentual size becomes less of an issue. I reckon in a week or two they'd be less than a pound apart more or less? I don't see any option for leaving them alone right now, things would escalate into a full-fledged furry fury
I agree...that when the sizes are a bit more equal...than it may be easier...but on the other hand...I would not lose any opportunity to work with them...both separately and together.
Yes, ...it is a lot of work to supervise...right now...But they are getting valuable 'learning lessons'...from each other...on how to Play with each other, too.

Just separate them, occasionally,...before you think that things will escalate...and don't worry too much if they do...since with both Pichu and Raichu being so young...in a week's time all the so called 'bitter battles'...would have been forgotten about.
It's how kittens learn social skills...from each other.

Take a look at this thread...post #29 video...at the 0:46 mark...and at the 1:03 mark.
Do your kittens look as rough as these ones? More rough...or less rough?
Introduction - two kittens
 
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Glenn Martens

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Thank you for the added details. It really helps.

So Pichu will be 5 months next week....and Raichu is about 3.5 months, now.
They are very close in age...and Pichu does have a size advantage...over Raichu...but probably soon it will all be more equal, as Raichu grows.

It's good that Pichu is already neutered,...and you are right...with time the testosterone levels will lessen...not disappear...just lessen...but he will still have that wild and carefree kitten energy....but yes...aggression should lessen also...with the neutering.
Hopefully, Raichu's testicle does descend, in the next month or so,...so that the neuter is easier to do.

That playing chase with the humans sounds awesome. :blush: :clover: Like 'hide and go seek'. :)
Really good exercise for both cat and humans, too.

That is very interesting. So they have different 'play styles'....with Pichu wanting to chase and run more...and the younger Raichu prefers a slower, more thoughtful approach.
Also interesting that Raichu....seems to like more independent Play.
(These 'play styles' may change in the future...though...since when the kittens learn from each other by watching each other...and engaging, interacting, playing....they often times ...learn each other's moves.)

That makes sense that Pichu loses interest in a toy...so fast...since....to him the best 'toy' in the room....would be Raichu.
To Pichu...having Raichu around ... who he can chase, wrestle, run, and tumble with...makes for way more fun...than any interactive toy...could ever do.
There are some interesting ideas for making your own 'puzzle feeders'...but you just have to always supervise...and make sure they are safe to be around kittens....who like to chew on everything.
Homemade Puzzles - Food Puzzles for Cats

I would suggest, ...that you try and concentrate a bit...on Building up Raichu's Confidence.
You've already begun doing this...by walking with him through the home...spending time with him.
So now...if you could Play with Raichu...using some sort of 'wand toy' ...or 'fishing pole toy'...with an attached cat toy on the end of a string...(similar to the one you said that Raichu already likes.)...then this would increase his Confidence even more.

He also has to leave his Scent everywhere within the home, ...so that all things smell like him, ..so he is not worried about exploring or increasing his own territory. (Remember to 'kitten proof' all areas, beforehand,...just to protect both kittens.)

With Pichu...you do the same thing...as in Playing with a 'wand toy'...or fishing pole toy...but the aim...is more to be able to focus his attention on the toy...and thereby...being able to Distract him with the toy, too.
You're Playing with both kittens...in the same way....but have different goals in mind. One to build Confidence.
And the other to train for Focus and Distraction.

What ArtNJ mentioned above is very true. All is normal and fine.
Though, Sometimes one kitten can be a little too rough...and does not back off...or bites too hard...to cause the little one pain.
When this does happen,...it is good to intervene,..at times,...just to show and teach the older kitten....not to be so rough...and to let the younger one escape...and have time to come back. You can always just pick up Pichu, with a towel, ...and give him a very short 'time-out' in another room...if he is biting too hard...or not letting Raichu up, at all.

Refereeing at these times...will help build Raichu's confidence, too, since he will not get totally upset,...and it will also establish 'house rules'...for both cats...in that overly painful playfighting is not allowed.


Make sure to arrange your furniture, with plenty of 'Escape routes' for the kittens, too. High areas and low areas. Cat trees and cat beds on the floor, too. No 'dead ends'...or corners where they cannot escape from.
Use cardboard boxes, pillows, chairs, side tables...as a bit of an obstacle course...where the younger kitten can hide behind...and use to escape to, or run behind.

But I really think that with some more time...Raichu will get more Confident...and will stand up to Pichu...and their playing will be more even.

We let them out to explore the house more or less on equal terms and first few weeks I followed Raichu around everywhere to make him comfortable around the home. Mostly when I leave him in the living room now he loves to go about his own way and roam around as it were to eventually find a comfortable spot to sleep, albeit on the bed downstairs, in the living room on a perch, or on the couch or just upstairs in the hallway on the naked floor or on the stairs. (he sleeps anywhere basically whenever he's had enough of roaming about and he's tired out).

I'll try make him interact with one of the wand toys we have that has a string similar to his favorite one but it will be a tough nut to crack, he only ever pounces onto something under a blanket. each night before bed I play with the banket and he pounces around like crazy on every 'thing' that resides below the sheet.


I'm fairly sure Raichu's aware that whenever he unleashes a shriek or sound, pichu gets taken away... maybe too aware, I'm just worried if we keep dragging pichu out of the situation every time he'll begin to dislike us for doing so. timeout seems to have no effect. I put him inside the most boring room in the house with no toys in it, nothing he could play with. he just begins meowing and scratching at the door. I usually wait until he stops for a good 30 seconds before I open the room again to let him go but the instant I open the door he's immediately WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH like a rocket trying to find where Raichu's at.

I ordered the Jackson galaxy's air wand that's due to arrive somewhere mid February, that might be the toy that can keep both of them interested albeit for a short period. thanks for the tips! appreciate all the help I can get.. It's been a tough month, guess the only option is to mostly wait patiently until they're more equal in size and he can hold his own in a fight albeit it a play fight.
 

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If the kitten is hiding and not coming out to initiate play again, the play is too rough. You might say NO to your older cat and remove him from the area for a while. Get a kickeroo on amazon for cats and throw that towards him when he is running for the younger cat. It may distract him. I have two and keep one in a bag of catnip to keep one fresh at all times. The younger kitten will most likely grow up enough pretty quick to hold his own, but I think he is a little too young, and too new right now. I wouldn't let the older one be such a bully. By the way, it takes at least 1 month to 6 weeks for male hormones to leave the body after neuter, so his aggression still might lessen.
 

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I'm fairly sure Raichu's aware that whenever he unleashes a shriek or sound, pichu gets taken away... maybe too aware, I'm just worried if we keep dragging pichu out of the situation every time he'll begin to dislike us for doing so. timeout seems to have no effect. I put him inside the most boring room in the house with no toys in it, nothing he could play with. he just begins meowing and scratching at the door. I usually wait until he stops for a good 30 seconds before I open the room again to let him go but the instant I open the door he's immediately WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH like a rocket trying to find where Raichu's at.
Ahhh...so you've already tried the 'time-outs'.
Okay, then,..I think you may be right...and Raichu is now totally aware...of what happens when he shrieks or makes a loud sound.
So maybe Raichu is doing a bit of exaggerating... I'm not really sure.
Kittens and cats are very smart...and often train us humans...before we even notice.

If you leave them together...just try to observe them...from a distance...and notice how fast Raichu manages to 'kick off' Pichu...using his back legs. Also how fast Raichu runs...and does he stop...and pause...look back...then continue on.
When Pichu has Raichu pinned down...does he never let him go...or does he play-bite...and hold...and then let Raichu also get some of his moves in.
Noticing all these actions...while they are playing...will give you more information...on how actually rough it is.
It's been a tough month, guess the only option is to mostly wait patiently until they're more equal in size and he can hold his own in a fight albeit it a play fight.
Just don't try to lose the momentum...of your two kittens Playing both separately and together. Because of all the things they learn from each other.
Try to look at your intros...as fun and challenging...and great exercise for the humans, too. :catrub:
By next week...you won't even remember how tough the month was. :stars: :walk::caticon::blackcat:
 
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Glenn Martens

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Ahhh...so you've already tried the 'time-outs'.
Okay, then,..I think you may be right...and Raichu is now totally aware...of what happens when he shrieks or makes a loud sound.
So maybe Raichu is doing a bit of exaggerating... I'm not really sure.
Kittens and cats are very smart...and often train us humans...before we even notice.

If you leave them together...just try to observe them...from a distance...and notice how fast Raichu manages to 'kick off' Pichu...using his back legs. Also how fast Raichu runs...and does he stop...and pause...look back...then continue on.
When Pichu has Raichu pinned down...does he never let him go...or does he play-bite...and hold...and then let Raichu also get some of his moves in.
Noticing all these actions...while they are playing...will give you more information...on how actually rough it is.

Just don't try to lose the momentum...of your two kittens Playing both separately and together. Because of all the things they learn from each other.
Try to look at your intros...as fun and challenging...and great exercise for the humans, too. :catrub:
By next week...you won't even remember how tough the month was. :stars: :walk::caticon::blackcat:
I worry about the first thing too, originally I knew he was scared because he started growling and his ears were going all flat, but now every time he seemingly gets caught by pichu in a grip he starts making noises, if he is in a space where he can put himself to take away pichu his size advantage i.e. a confined space like under a cabinet or a small table or a bed, he doesn't make a sound whatsoever.

When I remove Pichu from the area, he comes dashing out with the greatest courage and starts jumping and zooming a bit on everything. its like an outlet of what he'd like to do when Pichu is around I guess but he simply cannot due to the size differential.

If you leave them together...just try to observe them...from a distance...and notice how fast Raichu manages to 'kick off' Pichu...using his back legs.

Also how fast Raichu runs...and does he stop...and pause...look back...then continue on. --- He does this more often than not when running away he mostly runs down the stairs but rather than diving under the bed into a safe space, he waits for pichu to catch up near him and looks back at him, and chooses to not crawl under most of the time. Pichu also generally holds off the chase and leaves some distance in between.


When Pichu has Raichu pinned down...does he never let him go...or does he play-bite...and hold...and then let Raichu also get some of his moves in.

Raichu does not ever get any moves in unless he's in a confined space that does not allow Pichu to pin him down. When Pichu pins him, he releases him, takes distance pretending not to look back, Raichu generally stays put and after taking a bit of distance Pichu leaps back at him.

In our bedroom he has found various spots that make it hard for Pichu to walk around though, his size actually becomes a disadvantage which Raichu benefits from to deal some of his own punches

Noticing all these actions...while they are playing...will give you more information...on how actually rough it is.
 

cat nap

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I worry about the first thing too, originally I knew he was scared because he started growling and his ears were going all flat, but now every time he seemingly gets caught by pichu in a grip he starts making noises, if he is in a space where he can put himself to take away pichu his size advantage i.e. a confined space like under a cabinet or a small table or a bed, he doesn't make a sound whatsoever.

When I remove Pichu from the area, he comes dashing out with the greatest courage and starts jumping and zooming a bit on everything. its like an outlet of what he'd like to do when Pichu is around I guess but he simply cannot due to the size differential.
Hi Glenn Martens Glenn Martens ...it really sounds like your kittens are Playing. :blush:
And wow...that little Raichu is a smart kitten...for already using his 'smaller size'...and knowing that larger Pichu...cannot get to him.
That is a total genius...having already figured out this 'defensive strategy' ...to use versus Pichu.
Also how fast Raichu runs...and does he stop...and pause...look back...then continue on. --- He does this more often than not when running away he mostly runs down the stairs but rather than diving under the bed into a safe space, he waits for pichu to catch up near him and looks back at him, and chooses to not crawl under most of the time. Pichu also generally holds off the chase and leaves some distance in between.
Yes, this is total Playing, then.
Both your kittens are actually Respecting each other...and learning each other's cues...and strategies.
Raichu does not ever get any moves in unless he's in a confined space that does not allow Pichu to pin him down. When Pichu pins him, he releases him, takes distance pretending not to look back, Raichu generally stays put and after taking a bit of distance Pichu leaps back at him.

In our bedroom he has found various spots that make it hard for Pichu to walk around though, his size actually becomes a disadvantage which Raichu benefits from to deal some of his own punches
Haha...I bet Raichu getting some punches thrown at Pichu...must feel good for smaller Raichu. :bluepaw:
I honestly think that Raichu is very smart...and knows how to defend himself...and use the space around him...to his advantage.

It must be very fun to watch your kittens...all running around and playing.:cloud9: :clover:

If you do think that, at times,...it might get a little too, too rough,...then just gently throw a towel...or small cat blanket...on top of them...to stop the action...momentarily.
You can even try to...toss a pillow...towards their direction...(but not directly at them)...to create a little diversion or distraction...and see if they stop...or run away.

Honestly,...it sounds like pure kitten fun...even if it gets loud sometimes. :)
I would only intervene...when you notice...that little Raichu...has had enough...of bigger Pichu...and needs a little bit of time...to rest or relax.
Pichu should be learning...that when Raichu screeches, yowls, or vocalizes in higher pitches...he should be easing off on some of his rougher play. Only by actually playing together...will he be learning this.:musicnote:
 

ArtNJ

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Its easier to put a video somewhere else and just put the link here.

I agree with cat nap cat nap that it sounds like play. Its hard to watch normal and fine rough play if you aren't used to it.

That said, I also agree with di and bob di and bob that the best way to tell if its too much is to let the smaller kitten be your guide. Not right in the moment of rough play, but after. If the smaller kitten comes right back in 5 or 10 minutes after rough play and acts like nothing happened, all good. Even better if the smaller kitten initiates play sometimes. If the smaller cat constantly hides and is constantly growling when he does come out, even if the bigger one is chill, there is a problem.
 

di and bob

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The only way that Pichu is going to learn how much is too much is by the screeches and yowls coming from Raichu. If he is hurting Raichu, he'll hear about it!
 
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