Resident Cat Suddenly Ill Three Weeks After New Kitten. Calici? Herpes?

[susanandjose]

Hi all,

Longtime reader first time poster... anyway, I'm posting because our beloved resident cat Maceo (11 yrs old) fell ill three days ago.

On Friday night, he seemed withdrawn, and then Saturday morning he didn't want to get out of bed even as late as 9 am. When he finally sat up, he coughed for several minutes and then made a gagging or 'reverse cough' type of motion for awhile and could barely meow -- it was more like a croak.

I waited some hours (had a work meeting outside the house), then took him to the vet on Saturday afternoon. He was licking his lips a lot and still just croaking, not meowing. The vet said he had a fever of 103.8, and did a urinalysis which just came back normal this morning. The vet also said that licking lips could be due to fever. Maceo has had x-rays and blood tests done as recently as 3 weeks ago, and everything is normal.

He ate a tiny bit on Saturday, a tiny bit across three feedings on Sunday, and a tiny bit more this morning (about 1/3 or 1/2 of his usual feeding amount). I had to use treats to get him to eat, but he did ingest a bit of food and liquid.

He has gone pee once per day since the onset of this mysterious illness, and yesterday Sunday he finally went poo the first time since Friday, but it was a tiny tiny amount.

It's now Monday morning and he's still very lethargic, though no more gagging or coughing. He still licks his lips, but not quite as frequently.

We also adopted a new kitten about three weeks ago, took 10 days to do the introduction (kitten was separated in a walk-in closet, we did swapping, scent exchange etc) and when they finally met face to face they seemed ok. They even sometimes sleep near other or even touching now. Maceo (resident kitty) was definitely stressed by the new kitten, but seemed to have accepted him and even would groom him and sit on him to dominate etc. I'm not sure what role this plays in it, because I've read some threads about a new cat causing mysterious health problems for a resident cat due to the stress.

We are also pretty sure the new kitten has herpesvirus because he is so sneezy and had some conjunctivitis, so wondering if Maceo's mysterious illness could be a manifestation of herpes? Or calici?

The vet has been very inconclusive so I'm hoping to get some other experienced cat families weighing in here on this forum. So worried about my poor Maceo -- he is my special, bonded soul mate in a cat.

PS -- I am supposed to go on a combined work trip + vacation for two weeks starting tomorrow and am trying to decide if I should cancel (my husband will be home with the kitties either way but Maceo and I have a special bond)

 

[kashmir64]

Unfortunately, I know nothing about the two possibilities you mentioned. However, the way you are describing his poop, it sounds like he might be dehydrated from the fever. Even if you see him drink, it may not be enough. You need to get electrolytes in him. At this point, I would slowly syringe around 5cc's every couple of hours. If this is not a possibility, then add unflavored pedialite to his water dish.

 

[mservant]

I'm sorry to hear Maceo is so unwell at the moment susanandjose , and hope you see an improvement very soon. It is always very worrying when a more mature cat is reluctant to eat.

When you took Maceo along to your vet did they examine his throat and mouth thoroughly? These is a small chance he could have feline herpes but it is not highly infective for cats with a strong immune system, and many cats carry the virus without showing any symptoms (so it could even be he has had the virus all his life and recent stress result in his being run down and show signs rather than recent infection). It is unusual but feline herpes can sometimes cause blisters in the mouth and throat which can be very painful, and also become infected and cause ulcers or tonsilitis which happened to my Mouse when he was a kitten. It is more common for sudden rasping and coughing then being off food to be due to something stuck in the throat though. It can be hard to examine a cat's throat so best done by a vet who knows what they are looking for. If your vet didn't seem to examine his throat I would be calling them back up to ask about it.

 

[catwoman707]

Well, if the kitten came from a shelter then regardless of whether the kitten actually became infected with the same virus or illness as your older boy has now been displaying, shelters tend to have the 'superbugs", the very hearty versions of what would ordinarily be standard.
There aren't many viruses really, the most common are the top 2 upper respiratory viruses being herpesvirus and calicivirus. These both have a variety of forms and extent too.
Then there is panleukopenia (cat version of puppy parvo) which he should not be susceptible to anyway if he has been vaccinated as a youngster
If the kitten shows signs of a uri with eye involvement then it is highly likely to be herpesvirus, which as she matures will be kept mostly at bay and dormant by her immune system.

This bug is working through his system, but hasn't really surfaced and settled enough yet to see what you are dealing with, but for now, supportive care while his system figures this out is very important.
Keeping hydrated being number one priority.
You'll know soon enough what's going on, but I can almost guarantee if kitten came from a shelter then he/she brought it along with.

 

[susanandjose]

catwoman707 mservant thank you very much for your thoughtful responses. We just got back from another vet visit this afternoon. Maceo still had a fever of 103-ish, which the vet said was a bad sign, and they decided to give him an injection of Convenia, an injection of Cerenia, a little bit of famotidine (because he is drooling quite a bit), and some subcutaneous fluids.

Once we finally got home, he showed signs of hunger -- probably due to the Cerenia -- and actually ate a small meal of his normal raw food with minimal coaxing. He then went poo, and did a full self-grooming. That was at 5 pm.

Just now at 9 pm, we tried to feed him again and he didn't want to eat a thing. He keeps showing interest in food (approaching, sniffing), but not wanting to actually eat it.

mservant yes today the vet said there was a mild stomatitis in Maceo's mouth that wasn't there on Saturday, and now (Monday evening, 6 hrs after vet) he is drooling quite a lot -- like, there is a string of drool hanging from his mouth, which I've never once seen happen to him as he has always been such a strong cat.

He's not really coughing anymore, but I can hear that there's something inflamed or obstructing because when he sleeps deeply, his usual snoring is now up to about 3x the sound volume.

catwoman707 that is a really good point about the kitten Charlie bringing home superbugs. I'm almost sure he has herpes, but perhaps he's a carrier for calici as well. He was in a foster home most recently, but when we went to visit, it was crazy -- 5 cats living in a small space of a few rooms and it did not smell clean. Maceo got sick just about 8 or so days after first meeting Charlie, so that would make sense as an incubation period for a virus.

He's been vaccinated, and the vet even did an extra test for FIV / FeLV, which came back negative. They even did an extra x-ray to see if there's pneumonia, but nothing.

So now, won't eat, drooling excessively, looks absolutely miserable and depressed and is all shot up with antibiotics, which we're not sure if they'll be effective or not if we're dealing with a virus. He is a highly intelligent and proud person-cat, whose self-esteem must be pretty sore right now.

Can herpesvirus cause such a strong reaction? If it is calicivirus, will he pull through after some days or weeks? What else can I do to help him get better? Make sure he eats some small amount at least once a day, gets fluids, and...?

Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

 

[catwoman707]

Absolutely! Calici or herpevirus won't take an adult cat's life. Young kittens it can because calici tends to become pneumonia which kittens simply aren't strong enough to fight.
If he ate a small meal after the vet, this is good, of course you are used to his usual routine and appetite, so is he, which is why you see him acting like he's interested yet doesn't end up eating.
He'll get through this, no need to worry about that. Just be sure he at least stays hydrated.
Cats systems require thorough hydration to work properly, as we all do I guess, but cats more so with their unique chemistry.
I also meant to mention trying some chicken baby food, warmed a bit and diluted a bit for even more water content.
Some cats are crazy for this.
Tuna water, low salt chicken broth, anything that will get his interest is an added big plus.

No need to worry about fiv/felv, it's most likely one of the cold viruses, herpes I think is what is going on now.

You mentioned stomatitis? Calici won't look like stomatitis, it will show like blisters/sores inside and on lips sometimes. Red/inflammed gums around the base of teeth is not the same.

 

[mservant]

One thing to remember with 'stomatitis' is that when a vet says this they are referring to a particular sign - symptom - feature or illness or health issue and not a specific condition. 'Stomatitis' is a vet's word for lesions, rores and ulcers in the cat's mouth and can be used to describe these regardless of what illness or disease is causing them. Again, I think it is most likely feline herpes of the conditions mentionned above, but when Mouse's vets were treating him they took their time in deciding on what the diagnosis was. When they did reach their conclusion it was after repeated presentations with a range of things and they told me that they didn't feel it was worth running tests because the results were not always conclusive anyway, would cost more money and be more stressful for Mouse, and their experience was probably more reliable - I believed them. The main thing is that Maceo gets through this presenting problem.

Hopefully the medication that Maceo has now been given will help reduce the pain and inflammation in his mouth and you will see an improvement in his willingness to eat. Mouse started to eat pretty quickly once he had been given pain relief and anti-biotics to fight the infection in his mouth.

Soft, gently warmed food with added liquids like catwoman707 suggests sounds perfect to get Maceo started again. You might have to tempt him even more with offering he lick it from your fingers a little at a time.

 

[susanandjose]

Absolutely! Calici or herpevirus won't take an adult cat's life. Young kittens it can because calici tends to become pneumonia which kittens simply aren't strong enough to fight.
If he ate a small meal after the vet, this is good, of course you are used to his usual routine and appetite, so is he, which is why you see him acting like he's interested yet doesn't end up eating.
He'll get through this, no need to worry about that. Just be sure he at least stays hydrated.
Cats systems require thorough hydration to work properly, as we all do I guess, but cats more so with their unique chemistry.
I also meant to mention trying some chicken baby food, warmed a bit and diluted a bit for even more water content.
Some cats are crazy for this.
Tuna water, low salt chicken broth, anything that will get his interest is an added big plus.

No need to worry about fiv/felv, it's most likely one of the cold viruses, herpes I think is what is going on now.

You mentioned stomatitis? Calici won't look like stomatitis, it will show like blisters/sores inside and on lips sometimes. Red/inflammed gums around the base of teeth is not the same.

The vet called it "stomatitis" but then said the plain-English word "sores"... so, I'm honestly not sure which it is, but we do know that there's something painful in poor Maceo's mouth that's preventing him from eating or chewing.

Thank you for the encouragement! Yep, was going to purchase baby food this morning to try (although he's definitely interested in his regular food), even if it's only because it's smoother than anything else. I actually tried tuna water and tuna, and shockingly it doesn't seem interesting to EITHER cat in the household (so we humans ate the rest!). It was tuna in water with no salt... who knows.

How do I know if he is sufficiently hydrated or not? The vet said, as long as he is drinking a tiny bit of fluid, but this does not seem like enough during a fever and illness time. Does he need subcutaneous every day or every other? He is super resistant to the syringe because he (accurately) associates it with medicine.

 

[susanandjose]

One thing to remember with 'stomatitis' is that when a vet says this they are referring to a particular sign - symptom - feature or illness or health issue and not a specific condition. 'Stomatitis' is a vet's word for lesions, rores and ulcers in the cat's mouth and can be used to describe these regardless of what illness or disease is causing them. Again, I think it is most likely feline herpes of the conditions mentionned above, but when Mouse's vets were treating him they took their time in deciding on what the diagnosis was. When they did reach their conclusion it was after repeated presentations with a range of things and they told me that they didn't feel it was worth running tests because the results were not always conclusive anyway, would cost more money and be more stressful for Mouse, and their experience was probably more reliable - I believed them. The main thing is that Maceo gets through this presenting problem.

Hopefully the medication that Maceo has now been given will help reduce the pain and inflammation in his mouth and you will see an improvement in his willingness to eat. Mouse started to eat pretty quickly once he had been given pain relief and anti-biotics to fight the infection in his mouth.

Soft, gently warmed food with added liquids like catwoman707 suggests sounds perfect to get Maceo started again. You might have to tempt him even more with offering he lick it from your fingers a little at a time.

Thank you so much! I agree with you that the most important is to help him get through it, regardless of which one it is (and they are rather similar, aren't they). I believe one of the injections was an anti-inflammatory, which might help with his mouth pain but again last night he didn't want to eat so he probably still has quite a bit of discomfort.

We've been tempting him by using tiny bits of a jerky-style treat (his favorite) as a spoon for food, but we'll see how today goes! Day by day...

 

[mservant]

If the vet described Maceo as having sores in his mouth it sounds very much like what Mouse had when he was younger. His sores got infected so he ended up with antibiotics and pain relief but once the antibiotics started working he got better pretty fast. He wouldn't eat much at all when his mouth was painful but quickly caught up. It is really awful watching them when they are so sick.
It did take Mouse a bit longer to get back to his usual cuddly, bouncy self than his starting to eat again so be patient while your guy begins to get better - he will probably still need to rest up more than usual.
With there being some chance he has been showing signs of feline herpes (and good for any under the weather cat), it is important to do what you can to help Maceo relax and rest up - stress is a big factor in cats keeping the virus in check.

 

[catwoman707]

You might call and ask the vet what he saw and called stomatitis, whether it's a general inflammation at the base of teeth area or specific blisters or ulcers/sores he saw.
Both are very painful, but in my experience calici caused sores are even more painful and do take a bit of time to heal.
Pain meds will be helpful for him so he will eat better than without.

 

[susanandjose]

Thank you so much catwoman707 and mservant .

This morning, we had a big win -- he ate an entire jar of baby food (mostly chicken and gravy flavor, with some turkey and veggies flavor mixed in for fiber). As he was eating, I could look into his mouth a bit and saw that his lips and gums are extremely swollen. Last night there was a small amount of blood in his drool, so he definitely has some kind of ulceration rather than just general inflammation. We are lucky he is a food-oriented guy who will persevere to eat despite that obvious pain.

Because Maceo is an all-black cat, with black paw pads etc, he also has black lips and black spotting pigmentation on his gums. This makes it very hard to clearly see what's going on, since his tissue is so dark, if that makes sense? So I can't tell how serious the sores (or blisters or whatever is happening) are.

At lunch he didn't want to eat again, but this could be because his appetite has shrunken a bit with the illness. Poor guy.

Unfortunately, I just left for a work trip this morning after our baby food win, so my husband is taking care of him the next few days.

Do you think he needs to see the vet again? Probably not unless he stops eating, right? I don't want to subject him to more diagnostic pokes and prods, and even more antibiotics that won't necessarily do anything additive since he is already all full up with two different types.

Anyway, thank you very much -- your responses have provided me with great comfort during a trying time, and hopefully this will be helpful to others!

Oh, PS -- In case anyone finds this thread months or years from now and wants to know more... two GREAT posts / articles I recently found on calicivirus, which show that patience and good supportive care can make a huge difference in outcomes:

Calicivirus: This Much I Know

Feline Calicivirus Infection

 

[catwoman707]

Very good to hear he likes the baby food
Not eating due to mouth pain doesn't do anything to curb his appetite, so tummy wants it, mouth doesn't.

There's about 60 calories per jar, so if he eats at least 2 a day you won't have to worry about HP either, which is a big plus.
It takes consuming less than 50% of normal cal intake to become a possibility.

It def does sound like calici vs stomatitis caused by immune system attacking teeth.
Slow but progressive healing....varies a great deal but usually about 2 weeks from beginning sores to healed, but as it's healing he will begin to eat well again.

 

[susanandjose]

catwoman707 the Gerber stuff has 100 calories per jar!! Amazing dense stuff, and smells absolutely terrible (in a good way).

So you think they need about 100 cals a day to stay OK? I have no idea how many calories are in his normal food since it's home made, but I was guesstimating 250 or so...

I am hoping his teeth don't sustain permanent damage, but let's see how that goes.

Thank you for the support

 

[catwoman707]

Calici won't hurt his teeth, it's like me or you having a very sore canker sore more or less, which doesn't have an effect on our teeth.
You mean gerber chicken only baby food has 100? I have always thought or known it to be 60, 100 is even better though of course if so.

EDIT-it sure does!! What the heck?! haha
Well several years back when I checked this out it told me 60.....go figure!

 

[mservant]

Good to hear Maceo likes that stinky hi-cal' food you found for him.

I'm sure it will be hard leaving him while he is sick but it is good your husband is there to take good care. Hopefully your husband will see him start to pick up, but if he is still in pain and reluctant to eat in a couple of days I would call the vet again to talk things through and see what they say.

Poor guy having sore gums. Does sound very like how Mouse was. He still gets red gums sometimes if I don't follow his dental routine as rigorously as I should. I was terrified he would loose all his teeth when his mouth infections were going on (it was a spell of about a year) and the last infection he had when he was around 18 months old. He's now over 6 years old, he hasn't needed any dental treatment, and he has all his lovely pearly white fangs. Hope this helps reassure you.

 

[susanandjose]

Maceo ate ALL his Gerber chicken n gravy at dinner tonight, so that's 2 jars of 100-calorie stinky stuff for the day! Wait, isn't that almost like a full day's worth of calories...??!

I just watched the video of him lapping up his dinner very rapidly, and I think that's a good sign. Did not seem like there was any hesitation whatsoever! He also seems more cheerful, even though his mouth is now clearly swollen and there's crusty goo surrounding his lips (hey, as long as he doesn't look in the mirror, right?).

Minor lesson learned for anyone else who might be dealing with URI, herpes, calici or an otherwise sick kitty... the Gerber 100-calorie jar seems to be a great solution during tough times (and this coming from a longtime, happy raw feeder). He wouldn't even touch tuna OR tuna water, but the baby food was a win.

catwoman707 almost all of the formulas that are meat + veggies DO only have 60 calories so that's probably what you were thinking, but when it's the pure meat one it's more calories! (anyway we ended up mixing with additional veggie flavor, again for the fiber)

YAY. Hopefully all future forum posts will be benign happy things like complaining about cats that like to play too much, that are too cuddly, that are too smart, etc etc

 

[catwoman707]

Awesome to hear!! Def showing improvements.
Yes, baby food chicken or turkey is my go-to food and nearly always does the trick!

 

[mservant]

Happy dance for Maceo cat munching his whole chicken dinner.

Hope Maceo isn't one of those cats who sees himself in the mirror and likes to admire himself. (Mouse was terrified the one time he saw himself in a mirror - obviously thought he had an intruder. He raced out of the room and took about a day to go back in ). It sounds like he is going to be back to his regular self very soon. Looking forward to further updates about an over-bouncy, high energy cat that wants to play 24/7.
Lots of pampering for Maceo when you get home, and hopefully you will see him get back to full strength, a healthy, chilled out cat happy to show this new kitten of the house how to behave.

 

[susanandjose]

Update to close out this thread:

Maceo is 80% better! He still has some sores in his mouth, but is now on just 50% baby food and 50% his regular raw diet. He is even chewing jerky treats again, so his mouth is better and he is showing no other viral symptoms (unless you count snoring as a symptom... but he also had that before).

It took about 8 days from first signs of calicivirus illness to being up to 80% recovery, for anyone else who finds this thread in the future.

Of the vet experience:

- The antibiotics probably were NOT useful, the pepcid was NOT useful, and the xrays were NOT useful (save yourself a bundle)

- the subcutaneous fluids in the first few days of sickness with fever WERE useful, and probably helped to defray some of the worst effects of the illness since it prevented dehydration

That's it! It's a virus, so it was really all about waiting it out with good supportive care and BABY FOOD!