resident cat seems depressed, should the kitten be returned? please help!

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

Hi, I am posting this for my aunt since she is not that good with a laptop. She has a 2-year-old cat who is very laid back. He likes to occasionally plays with toys (not jump on or chase mice-like wand, more like sits there and plays with plastic springs) but spends more time looking outside a window quietly. He does enjoy petting and will come to you and purr. My aunt brought back a new kitten about two weeks ago, and the cat introduction went well ... sort of. She did the toy exchange, room swap, and eat between a door thing. Finally they are able to eat with each other side by side, and there is no hissing or anything in the process. Right when my aunt is about to think she did a good job, the kitten tried to play with the resident cat and accidentally bump into the resident cat's eye because the kitten tried to ambush him (typical kitten play), but that hurt the resident cat and he is very upset about it. My aunt stopped that meeting and waited for a few days for re-introduction. She went through everything again and finally arrived at the stage where two cats are in the same room again, but this time the kitten wanted to play with adult cat so hard that he landed on adult cat's belly. I can tell that the adult cat had that "that's enough of it" thing and attacked the kitten, and he is always alert when seeing kitten. The kitten, on the other hand, does not seem to get the sign. He tried to ambush the adult cat all the time and things got a lot more violent later. My aunt tried to play the toys with them, but all kitten see is the other cat when he is around him. She also tried to play with kitten alone to run him out, but the kitten is always "fully charged" when sees adult cat. Treats didn't help either, since it has gotten a point where the adult cat refused to eat whenever the kitten is around.

She also said that the adult cat is losing appetite, and he is sleeping in the same spot more and more. He used to love treats, but now he barely responds. Even worse, he looks at my aunt and stays alert as if she has done some horrible things. She is a bit desperate, and the adult cat likes to sleep on her bed yet the kitten keeps screaming when no one is there during night. She can't keep separating them completely. So she was wondering if she should return the kitten now to give both of the cats a relief. The kitten is so adorable, and I am sure he could be taken within in 2 hours. Any advice on this? Should she return the kitten?

rubysmama · Oct 13, 2019

It's normal for cats not to accept new cats, or even kittens, into their territory, and 2 weeks really isn't very long. However, the older cat losing appetite is a bit concerning.

Make sure the older cat has high places he can escape to for breaks from the kitten. And tell your aunt to give him lots of attention, and tell him she still loves him, and he's not being replaced.

How old is the kitten, btw?

Maria Bayote · Oct 13, 2019

That kitten is just being a kitten, and I believe the resident cat’s “attacking” the kitten is not how you perceive it to be, but just an older cat’s warning to “back off” without really hurting the kitten. If that kitten is being violently attacked by the resident cat I believe that younger one would not continue to try to play with the resident cat. I have a kitten right now who plays seemingly non stop and harasses my other older cats. My Bourbon swats and growls at her, while my Barley pins her to the floor to stop her from playing with him. It is normal for older cats to set some sort of “discipline” to the younger ones.

However, since you mentioned that the resident cat is losing appetite then I suggest he be brought to the vet immediately. It could be something else. And it could be needing an urgent attention.

Let us know any updates.

Columbine · Oct 13, 2019

It sounds like your aunt's cat and kitten have very different energy levels and play drives. Its actually pretty common for adult cats to get annoyed at kittens who are determined to play with them, but it is concerning that the adult cat is so subdued. A vet check might be in order, just to make certain there's no underlying health issue.

In addition to what

rubysmama said, I might be tempted to try the adult cat on a calmer such as Composure or Zylkene. It sounds like he is finding the kitten pretty stressful at the moment, and a calmer might just ease the process a little.

I think one kitten alone is always harder. I might well be tempted to get a second kitten of a similar age, so they can entertain and play with each other and be more likely to leave the older cat alone.

Play is also incredibly important, for both the kitten and the adult cat. I'd be trying to play with the kitten to the point of exhaustion at least twice a day, and make sure to give the adult cat a shorter play session for every playtime the kitten gets. This will help him to reclaim ownership of his territory and increase his confidence. I know you say he doesn't play a ton, but maybe your aunt just hasn't found the right toy yet. Most cats adore Da Bird, and my guys also love many of the Purrfect cat toys - especially the feather or leather ones. They're a little more expensive than some, but they last well (and my boys are hard on their toys)
PURRfect cat toys

More enrichment for the kitten might help too. I have a selection of interactive toys (various ball tracks, 'hunting' balls in boxes and battery powered ones) that I have out on rotation, and they really help with keeping the cats amused and stimulated.

As for nighttime, I think its important that that stays for your aunt and her adult cat for now. He needs that routine for reassurance. Maybe your aunt could get a warm 'heartbeat' or purring toy for her kitten to snuggle with and feel less lonely.

If all else fails, yes returning this kitten is an option, but I don't think you're there yet. Cats can take a long time to adjust to change. I'm two weeks into introducing my two 2 year old boys to two little girl kittens, and we're still at the stage of everyone being separated. The boys are very growly and hissy about the girls because they're so unsure, but I know it will change in time. There comes a point when you just have to have faith it will work out and stick with the process.

She's a witch · Oct 13, 2019

Adopting another kitten might help in a way that the current kitten would get a playmate and hopefully would live the adult one alone. But it might as well backfire and the adult cat might feel harassed by both kittens. It’s a difficult situation and quite frankly, they seem to be badly matched as one kitten should be adopted only to the company of an active, playful cat. Yes, longer separation may help, but I’d personally feel awful to keep a playful kitten isolated alone, he needs a lot of activity to burn the energy off.
Whatever you decide, good luck!

ArtNJ · Oct 13, 2019

I agree with most of the posters that this is pretty normal and should work itself out. No one is being hurt, just a lot of drama. Unlike human drama queens, cats are actually pretty good at working stuff out if you let them be. The one exception is if there is actual painful fighting, but that isn't really a worry with a young kitten. Biological hardwiring prevents adult cats from truly hurting kittens. The most they will do is pin the kitten and make it squeal a little to teach some manners. There is no guarranty they will get to mutual friendship, though they might. But they should get to toleration from the big cat at least in time. So your aunt needs to give them time together to work things out.

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

rubysmama said:
It's normal for cats not to accept new cats, or even kittens, into their territory, and 2 weeks really isn't very long. However, the older cat losing appetite is a bit concerning.

Make sure the older cat has high places he can escape to for breaks from the kitten. And tell your aunt to give him lots of attention, and tell him she still loves him, and he's not being replaced.

How old is the kitten, btw?

Hello! thank you so much for your reply. The kitten is about 4 months old, and he is super energetic. My aunt has scheduled a vet visit next week for the resident cat, just to rule out health issues. I will definitely tell her to spend more time with the resident cat, maybe has some time with him alone everyday!

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

Maria Bayote said:
That kitten is just being a kitten, and I believe the resident cat’s “attacking” the kitten is not how you perceive it to be, but just an older cat’s warning to “back off” without really hurting the kitten. If that kitten is being violently attacked by the resident cat I believe that younger one would not continue to try to play with the resident cat. I have a kitten right now who plays seemingly non stop and harasses my other older cats. My Bourbon swats and growls at her, while my Barley pins her to the floor to stop her from playing with him. It is normal for older cats to set some sort of “discipline” to the younger ones.

However, since you mentioned that the resident cat is losing appetite then I suggest he be brought to the vet immediately. It could be something else. And it could be needing an urgent attention.

Let us know any updates.

Thank you so much for your reply! Yes, my aunt has a vet visit scheduled to make sure everything is ok with the resident cat. I was a bit relieved reading your comment because both me and my aunt are so worried that one of them will get hurt during the fight, my aunt did get some scratches herself trying to separate them last time. For now there is no blood drawn, luckily not end of the world yet. My thought was that maybe the kitten deserve a family in which there is a kitten so they can play ambush on each other. I don't want the kitten to feel like he is discouraged for doing the things he is supposed to do at this age.

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

Columbine said:
It sounds like your aunt's cat and kitten have very different energy levels and play drives. Its actually pretty common for adult cats to get annoyed at kittens who are determined to play with them, but it is concerning that the adult cat is so subdued. A vet check might be in order, just to make certain there's no underlying health issue.

In addition to what rubysmama said, I might be tempted to try the adult cat on a calmer such as Composure or Zylkene. It sounds like he is finding the kitten pretty stressful at the moment, and a calmer might just ease the process a little.

I think one kitten alone is always harder. I might well be tempted to get a second kitten of a similar age, so they can entertain and play with each other and be more likely to leave the older cat alone.

Play is also incredibly important, for both the kitten and the adult cat. I'd be trying to play with the kitten to the point of exhaustion at least twice a day, and make sure to give the adult cat a shorter play session for every playtime the kitten gets. This will help him to reclaim ownership of his territory and increase his confidence. I know you say he doesn't play a ton, but maybe your aunt just hasn't found the right toy yet. Most cats adore Da Bird, and my guys also love many of the Purrfect cat toys - especially the feather or leather ones. They're a little more expensive than some, but they last well (and my boys are hard on their toys)
PURRfect cat toys

More enrichment for the kitten might help too. I have a selection of interactive toys (various ball tracks, 'hunting' balls in boxes and battery powered ones) that I have out on rotation, and they really help with keeping the cats amused and stimulated.

As for nighttime, I think its important that that stays for your aunt and her adult cat for now. He needs that routine for reassurance. Maybe your aunt could get a warm 'heartbeat' or purring toy for her kitten to snuggle with and feel less lonely.

If all else fails, yes returning this kitten is an option, but I don't think you're there yet. Cats can take a long time to adjust to change. I'm two weeks into introducing my two 2 year old boys to two little girl kittens, and we're still at the stage of everyone being separated. The boys are very growly and hissy about the girls because they're so unsure, but I know it will change in time. There comes a point when you just have to have faith it will work out and stick with the process.

I see. I really appreciate all your suggestions and each of them looks promising to me! I have told my aunt to spray the calmer, and I ordered some interactive toys for cats to play by himself online so that the kitten still has ways of letting out energy if we are not there. My aunt also planned on leave the kitten in another room during night. Honestly speaking, I think my aunt is trained by the cat lol. She immediately checks on kitten whenever he meows, which is sweet, but I am not sure that's good for kitten in the long run. The kitten seems to believe that my aunt will always show up if he keeps screaming.

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

She's a witch said:
Adopting another kitten might help in a way that the current kitten would get a playmate and hopefully would live the adult one alone. But it might as well backfire and the adult cat might feel harassed by both kittens. It’s a difficult situation and quite frankly, they seem to be badly matched as one kitten should be adopted only to the company of an active, playful cat. Yes, longer separation may help, but I’d personally feel awful to keep a playful kitten isolated alone, he needs a lot of activity to burn the energy off.
Whatever you decide, good luck!

Thanks for your reply! Yes I completely agree. I think my aunt underestimated the energy level of the kitten. Even though the resident cat enjoys toys and looks like he might need a pal, the amount of energy a 3-month kitten gives him might make him wanna hide. We will focus on comforting the resident cat from now on, and hopefully the kitten will learn on focusing on toys is a better option.

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

ArtNJ said:
I agree with most of the posters that this is pretty normal and should work itself out. No one is being hurt, just a lot of drama. Unlike human drama queens, cats are actually pretty good at working stuff out if you let them be. The one exception is if there is actual painful fighting, but that isn't really a worry with a young kitten. Biological hardwiring prevents adult cats from truly hurting kittens. The most they will do is pin the kitten and make it squeal a little to teach some manners. There is no guarranty they will get to mutual friendship, though they might. But they should get to toleration from the big cat at least in time. So your aunt needs to give them time together to work things out.

I am glad to hear that! My aunt is so afraid that one of them will get hurt and she is seriously considering putting them together for the rest of their lives is best for both of them. Clearly she underestimated the energy level of a kitten. From now on, I will try not to intervene if they got in a fight (until it looks too scary), maybe it is time for kitten to understand the dominance. I don't think he has a clear idea of that because every time the resident cat wants to teach him a lesson my aunt stepped in and pull the kitten away.

ArtNJ · Oct 13, 2019

macncheeserocks said:
I am glad to hear that! My aunt is so afraid that one of them will get hurt and she is seriously considering putting them together for the rest of their lives is best for both of them. Clearly she underestimated the energy level of a kitten. From now on, I will try not to intervene if they got in a fight (until it looks too scary), maybe it is time for kitten to understand the dominance. I don't think he has a clear idea of that because every time the resident cat wants to teach him a lesson my aunt stepped in and pull the kitten away.

A good way to explain it to her is that cats hold grudges when they get hurt. So if the kitten was actually being hurt, he would act fearful of the big cat generally and not just during roughhousing. When a big cat pins a kitten and does a little biting to teach manners (or sometimes for play) it is more akin to a head nuggy or indian sunburn. The kitten doesn't like it for sure, but it isn't anything that will stop him from coming right back for more.

1 bruce 1 · Oct 13, 2019

macncheeserocks said:
I am glad to hear that! My aunt is so afraid that one of them will get hurt and she is seriously considering putting them together for the rest of their lives is best for both of them. Clearly she underestimated the energy level of a kitten. From now on, I will try not to intervene if they got in a fight (until it looks too scary), maybe it is time for kitten to understand the dominance. I don't think he has a clear idea of that because every time the resident cat wants to teach him a lesson my aunt stepped in and pull the kitten away.

When we got our youngest female, our oldest female was not very happy and we did a lot of gradual introductions. There were a few moments that were hairy but for the most part, things ironed themselves out.
A 4 month old kitten is like a 13-15 year old kid. They're past that cuddly innocent baby stage, but aren't an adult yet. To an adult (cat) that doesn't know them yet (they don't "know" them after 2 weeks), they look like nothing but trouble. They're not a baby, not an adult, just a teenager that's testing their boundaries.
If the adult cat willingly goes in to teach him some lessons, I'd do what I could to keep an eye on things so they don't get too rough but let him make his point. It doesn't sound like this adult cat would hurt him, just do his best to teach the young interloper some manners. If the adult cat is being chased or bullied and is visibly scared, I'd get in the middle of that and put a stop to it.
Odds are, they'll be fast friends in time. We have 9 cats, and a few of the territorial girls get into a spat once in a while, and there's some (quite funny) low key slapping going on at meal prep times, but we've never had a fight leading to vet bills. Once the kitten matures and learns the rules, I think your aunt will enjoy her time with her two happy cats by her side :wave3:

maggie101 · Oct 13, 2019

When my cats were kittens, they loved The Cats Meow on Amazon. I have cleared counters and desks so when my cat Maggie chases Peaches she can jump up higher then Maggie will walk away. Do the cats sleep with her? When I rescued my cat Coco, my old cat Josie would lick her for almost 10 minutes every morning. I think that is part of the reason Coco was never afraid of Josie and they became bff

macncheeserocks · Oct 13, 2019

maggie101 said:
When my cats were kittens, they loved The Cats Meow on Amazon. I have cleared counters and desks so when my cat Maggie chases Peaches she can jump up higher then Maggie will walk away. Do the cats sleep with her? When I rescued my cat Coco, my old cat Josie would lick her for almost 10 minutes every morning. I think that is part of the reason Coco was never afraid of Josie and they became bff

Getting the resident cat to groom for the kitten is like my aunt's ultimate goal because it is a sign that the kitten acknowledges adult cat's dominance and the adult cat accepts the kitten. Unfortunately the adult cat is so alert when kitten is present right now and they need to be in separate rooms during night. I really hope they are able to figure it out about each other's boundaries and become friends!

Maria Bayote · Oct 13, 2019

It will get better in time. Soon the kitten’s energy will be reduced and will just also prefer to be left alone or sleep. Just make sure it is fixed as soon as possible.

Columbine · Oct 13, 2019

I've just thought of one other thing. A couple of years ago, when I brought the boys home as kittens, I had a 2 year old former semi feral and low energy girl cat (who was actually terminally ill, but we didn't know that at the time). The boys were crazy high energy as kittens and they were determined to get my old girl, Asha, to play with them (despite having each other and us humans to play with). She found this all a bit overwhelming, just as your aunt's adult is.

In addition to everything mentioned above, we helped Asha stay as top cat by stepping in and removing or redirecting the boys when they started to pounce or charge her. We didn't shut the boys away when this happened, just moved them to a different room, or got them out of the way so Asha could get where she was going.

This approach really helped Asha to feel safe and confident around the boys, and put her back on top as boss cat. She was a sassy girl, but she didn't know how to handle intense 'teenage' kitten play. We continued to remove the boys until they got the message that chasing/wrestling play with Asha was strictly off limits. It took a little persistence, but it was definitely worth it.

I have a feeling that doing something like this, in addition to everything else, will really help your aunt's adult settle and accept the kitten.

Maria Bayote · Oct 14, 2019

Columbine said:
We didn't shut the boys away when this happened, just moved them to a different room, or got them out of the way so Asha could get where she was going.

Yes this is a good advice. I have done the same thing with my Graham and Barley. When things get too rough for Barley, I separate Graham and put her in a different room so my Barley can be able to rest and have some alone time.

rubysmama · Oct 14, 2019

I just came across this video of a similar cat situation. The comments under the video all agree, the older cat is just teaching the kitten boundaries.

The only concern I have with your aunt's cats, is the older one losing their appetite. That is something to watch, and could be a symptom of stress. Here's some TCS articles with more info:

resident cat seems depressed, should the kitten be returned? please help!

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