Resident cat keeps viciously attacking new kitten

[fs626]

Hi all,

New to the forum here. A little background:

My wife and I had two cats, a 10 year old (T) and a 15 year old (P). Unfortunately, P passed away a few months ago. P was sweet and gentle, and T sometimes picked on her (but was likely just T trying to play). Nothing I would call out of line.

Last month, we decided to take in another cat (well, a kitten), M. M was 4 months old when we got him. He is cute, cuddly, and fun. He likes running around and being crazy, like you would expect from a kitten. We gave him his own room for 3-4 weeks. After that, we tried introducing T to him, by leaving him in his carrier while she sniffed around. T immediately started viciously attacking M (including hissing she had never done before, and just jumping on him and attacking him. Definitely not "play"). We separated them and tried doing dinner dates with a door in between, we've tried holding onto M while T sniffs or looks on, but nothing has helped. It's been almost 2 months now and it's seemingly impossible to let T have access to M. We are looking for a suitable pet gate, and we have tried the Feliway Friends diffuser as well.

We are completely at a loss. M has quickly become part of the family, and he loves and trusts us. It would be incredibly difficult to give him up, and we are viewing this as a "nuclear" option.

I would love some advice from you guys, as I'm sure someone has experience with this. Please advise, thanks.

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. Condolences on the loss of your older cat. RIP sweetie.

Congrats on your new kitten. Sorry your other kitty, hasn't welcomed it with open paws. That is to be expected. of course. and sometimes takes a lot longer than hoped or expected.

TCS has some articles on cat introductions which may have some tips for you. The first article includes pics of stacked baby gates up to a doorway, which is something you might be able to incorporate in your home.

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – Cat Articles
Introducing Cats To Cats – Cat Articles
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – Cat Articles

Good luck. Keep us posted. Hopefully in time you'll be posting pics of them snuggling together.

 

[ArtNJ]

This is all very rare. Adult cats have biological hard wiring as to kittens and close to never attack very young kittens with intent to injure. They growl, they hiss, they swat to back the kitten off, but actual full on attacks with intent to injure are so rare that if you are truly sure that is what happened, it becomes hard to advise you. I guess try the double stacked baby gates method. Let them see each other for a few weeks without any actual interaction, and see what happens.

It wouldn't hurt to get T a vet check up. Attacking a true kitten with intent to injure is such a rarity that you have to wonder if something is going on with T.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I would agree that a health check for T is not a bad idea. MOST cats are fine with kittens, but not all. My own cat, who is healthy and fairly balanced, loathes all other cats, including even very young kittens. Oddly, she is fine with dogs...I think because it is a different species, and she isn't expecting any competition for resources, but that's a guess. SO...the "norm" can vary wildly. That said, ruling out a medical issue never hurts a thing, and allows us to narrow our focus!

And the number one rule for introducing cats of ALL AGES is that it takes as long as it takes, it cannot go faster than the most reluctant cat, and any attempts to pu.sh it WILL BACKFIRE! OK...maybe that's three rules, but they are interlocking.

The articles that rubysmama gave you are the ones that I was thinking of as I read your post. They have a wealth of information in them. Read, assimilate the good stuff, and remember that this may take months, but IT CAN BE DONE!

 

[She's a witch]

Is M neutered? At 5-6 months, he may already smell suspiciously for T, so if he’s not, he should be the sooner, the better.

 

[fs626]

Is M neutered? At 5-6 months, he may already smell suspiciously for T, so if he’s not, he should be the sooner, the better.

He is not neutered yet, he has an appointment for the end of February for this. Is this likely to affect how T reacts to him?

 

[jen]

Ah yes very much so that could be a factor. I would keep them separate until he is neutered and a good month after without expecting much to change. He will smell different after coming back from the vet too so keep that in mind. Plus it could take a few weeks for the boy hormones to leave his system. Is there anyway to push up the date sooner than end of Feb?

 

[jefferd18]

I am like some of the other members here- I have never seen an adult cat aggressively attack a kitten. Usually they either run from them or smack them. I feed feral cats over at Hood's parking-lot and the kittens there get by with murder.

 

[fs626]

Ah yes very much so that could be a factor. I would keep them separate until he is neutered and a good month after without expecting much to change. He will smell different after coming back from the vet too so keep that in mind. Plus it could take a few weeks for the boy hormones to leave his system. Is there anyway to push up the date sooner than end of Feb?

He isn't quite six months old yet, so we are holding off until then (February). Can you link to any articles or share any stories that indicate a difference between how a neutered kitten is treated by a resident cat vs a non-neutered one? I haven't heard anything about this before and haven't found anything online yet.

 

[jen]

No I really can't, just years and years of experience lol. You have a spayed older female and an intact male kitten who is now coming of age, he smells different. Cats are crazy about smells which is why I mentioned even when one goes to the vet and comes home smelling different there could be spats between them... That is just how it is. His hormones are coming out and she picks up on that and he probably drives her crazy sometimes.

At the same time that is odd for an older cat to actually be vicious to a kitten. It isn't to the point of blood draw right? If it is just a lot of chasing, hissing and growling I wouldn't be too worried unless it carries on for months longer. Cats can seem insane when playing and when an older one is trying to teach a younger one to behave. It can look terrifying but it really isn't. I just want to be sure it really is vicious attacking and not just loud, vocal games.

 

[fs626]

No I really can't, just years and years of experience lol. You have a spayed older female and an intact male kitten who is now coming of age, he smells different. Cats are crazy about smells which is why I mentioned even when one goes to the vet and comes home smelling different there could be spats between them... That is just how it is. His hormones are coming out and she picks up on that and he probably drives her crazy sometimes.

At the same time that is odd for an older cat to actually be vicious to a kitten. It isn't to the point of blood draw right? If it is just a lot of chasing, hissing and growling I wouldn't be too worried unless it carries on for months longer. Cats can seem insane when playing and when an older one is trying to teach a younger one to behave. It can look terrifying but it really isn't. I just want to be sure it really is vicious attacking and not just loud, vocal games.

She runs from across the house to jump on him while hissing and screaming (the way "cat fights" sound on TV). She hasn't drawn blood but that's only because we pull her off him immediately, as the poor little guy is scared out of his mind. His personality seems to be pretty timid, he's not showing any signs of aggression or instigation at all. She acts like she is possessed.

Thanks for the tip, we will keep them apart until well after he's been neutered. The vets recommend waiting until he's at least six months, so we're counting the days.

 

[rubysmama]

In case you're interested, here's a TCS article on When To Spay Or Neuter A Cat? – Cat Articles

 

[ArtNJ]

I'm seriously doubting it is the unneutered thing. You got this kitten at 4 months, and the older kitten "visciously attacked" him at 4 months. Vets have started neutering earlier, but a few decades back the standard was 6 months. I would treat this like a standard introduction for now. Certainly get the kitten neutered asap -- I just got mine done at 4 1/2 months, and this is now routine -- but I don't think that is the cause.

Just because it is so very unusual, can you describe **exactly** what led you to say viscious attack?

 

[fs626]

I'm seriously doubting it is the unneutered thing. You got this kitten at 4 months, and the older kitten "visciously attacked" him at 4 months. Vets have started neutering earlier, but a few decades back the standard was 6 months. I would treat this like a standard introduction for now. Certainly get the kitten neutered asap -- I just got mine done at 4 1/2 months, and this is now routine -- but I don't think that is the cause.

Just because it is so very unusual, can you describe **exactly** what led you to say viscious attack?

It's very similar to this except we have to pull her off him. The sounds are identical.

 

[ArtNJ]

Yeah, F fs626 you are right, that does look like intent to injure. And it is very rare. An above poster said that adults often have problems with kittens, which is very true, but not like this. Some sort of biological hard wiring normally prevents adults from attacking kittens much below six months -- 4 months definitely qualifies as a true kitten. Defensive swats or even a back-off charge sure, but attacks like this are not normal. The kitten being unneutered doesn't cause this sort of hostility towards a true kitten -- as I mentioned, six months used to be the standard age to neuter a few decades back.

So it is a rare situation, but presumably following the standard introduction guides rubysmama linked is the way to go. Given that T is having a poor reaction, you are going to want to plan on a 3 week minimum process that could end up stretching a lot longer. Start with them just in separate quarters. After a bit, you can scent swap, bringing the favorite blanket or cat bed from one room to the other. You can room swap at some point after that, but be careful with it, don't let them see each other -- used rooms with closed doors like airlocks. At some point after that, you could double stack baby gates to the room with the kitten. If double stacking baby gates seems like too much of a hassle, you can crack the door with door jambs. Either way, be careful going in and out of the room to prevent accidents. Maybe close the door where T is -- accidents with fighting destroy progress. I would not feed on opposite sides of the door right at that point if there are signs of high stress. With high stress, they just don't eat and that does nothing. It might be helpful towards the end of the process at building positive vibes. Towards the end, you might be able to play with T near the kitten's room as well.

I know you said its been two months, but the process needs to be gradual. They can't see each other prematurely, and getting into fights definitely sets things back. So maybe you can get this done in 3-4 weeks, but posters here like to say "it takes as long as it takes" -- meaning if there is a lot of stress at a step, don't advance, slow it down. When they do meet, anything short of actual fighting is ok. They can work through a lot on their own, but not that.

 

[fs626]

Yeah, F fs626 you are right, that does look like intent to injure. And it is very rare. An above poster said that adults often have problems with kittens, which is very true, but not like this. Some sort of biological hard wiring normally prevents adults from attacking kittens much below six months -- 4 months definitely qualifies as a true kitten. Defensive swats or even a back-off charge sure, but attacks like this are not normal. The kitten being unneutered doesn't cause this sort of hostility towards a true kitten -- as I mentioned, six months used to be the standard age to neuter a few decades back.

So it is a rare situation, but presumably following the standard introduction guides rubysmama linked is the way to go. Given that T is having a poor reaction, you are going to want to plan on a 3 week minimum process that could end up stretching a lot longer. Start with them just in separate quarters. After a bit, you can scent swap, bringing the favorite blanket or cat bed from one room to the other. You can room swap at some point after that, but be careful with it, don't let them see each other -- used rooms with closed doors like airlocks. At some point after that, you could double stack baby gates to the room with the kitten. If double stacking baby gates seems like too much of a hassle, you can crack the door with door jambs. Either way, be careful going in and out of the room to prevent accidents. Maybe close the door where T is -- accidents with fighting destroy progress. I would not feed on opposite sides of the door right at that point if there are signs of high stress. With high stress, they just don't eat and that does nothing. It might be helpful towards the end of the process at building positive vibes. Towards the end, you might be able to play with T near the kitten's room as well.

I know you said its been two months, but the process needs to be gradual. They can't see each other prematurely, and getting into fights definitely sets things back. So maybe you can get this done in 3-4 weeks, but posters here like to say "it takes as long as it takes" -- meaning if there is a lot of stress at a step, don't advance, slow it down. When they do meet, anything short of actual fighting is ok. They can work through a lot on their own, but not that.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, I really appreciate it. A follow-up question (I'll likely make a separate thread on this but figured I'd ask here also) - how long can I leave kitten M in a room by himself? Right now I'm between jobs but I'd like to start applying soon, and my wife is at work all day also. Is it cruel to leave a kitten in a room by himself? He has his basic needs met in there (litter box, food, water, toys), but he does meow sadly at the door after a few hours which tugs at my heart strings.

 

[ArtNJ]

There are people that live in studios that work 10+ hours a day that have young cats. I'm sure there are million plus that do that in the US alone. Cats are much more independent than dogs. Of course, its not ideal. They get bored. They destroy things. But its not the end of the world for the cat or the human.

 

[rubysmama]

I answered your question about leaving the kitten in a room by himself in your new thread.

However, I will add here, when you hear him meowing, it's probably because he can hear that you, or your wife, is home. When it's quiet in the home, he'll likely be quiet too. He will, however, likely start to meow as soon as he hears the door open, announcing that someone is home.

Back to the introductions, I hope separating them, then starting again helps make your older cat more open to accepting the kitten. Keep us posted on how things are going, particularly when you start letting them interact again.

And do feel free to post pics of your fur babies. It's always nice to put a face to the kitties we're talking about.
How To Add A Picture To Your Forum Post – Cat Articles

 

[fs626]

I answered your question about leaving the kitten in a room by himself in your new thread.

However, I will add here, when you hear him meowing, it's probably because he can hear that you, or your wife, is home. When it's quiet in the home, he'll likely be quiet too. He will, however, likely start to meow as soon as he hears the door open, announcing that someone is home.

Back to the introductions, I hope separating them, then starting again helps make your older cat more open to accepting the kitten. Keep us posted on how things are going, particularly when you start letting them interact again.

And do feel free to post pics of your fur babies. It's always nice to put a face to the kitties we're talking about.
How To Add A Picture To Your Forum Post – Cat Articles

What a wonderful and helpful community. You guys are the best! I hope to be more active here as well and share in the good vibes. I'll definitely update again (including with pics of the munchkins!)

 

[rubysmama]

This is a great community with wonderful members. I joined back in 2013 shortly after I adopted my cat, Ruby, and I've been here ever since.