Relationship between cats is deteriorating

[Amrak]

Hello people! I posted here a while back about my younger cat (now about 1year and 4 months old) often being in the bathroom when I couldn't supervise because I was worried about him playing too rough with my older (8 year old) boy.

I moved to a new city about a month ago and when moving into the new place, decided to do away with the separation completely. Cat proofed the new apartment as best I could (living with my younger one is an exercise in defying natural selection. Man had his entire leg in the toaster just last week).

Ever since there's been no barrier between them even without supervision and it was going fine. My younger one was still playing pretty rough but my older still seemed to reciprocate (chase back). Things seem to have taken a turn for the worse and the play has become rougher and one sided from what I can tell. Sometimes I'll come back some clumps of grey (older boy) fur all over the floor and my older boy will hiss whenever the younger one wants to play.

I now have to separate them again at night since the moment I close the bedroom door they'll start fighting. I always open the door back up and my older boy will race inside away from the other one. So I've got one boy sleeping in my room and the other meowing at the door most nights...

I'm worried their relationship is going to keep deteriorating. I don't want to have to go back to separating them when I'm away...

I also have to separate them at meal time or the younger one will steal all the older boy's food.

Anything I can do to mend their relationship or stop my younger guy's agression? I've tried tiring him out with play but he seems to always have energy to mess with his brother...

 

[Kris107]

Try feeding them together but stand between the bowls. Stealing another's food is a big dominance thing. Also, could he just be getting overly wound up? Ours, during plays sessions, will sometimes get overly wild and then he plays way too rough. We usually have to put a stop to him chasing his sister and sometimes give them a short time out until he can collect himself. Maybe only 10 min or so. It allows him to calm down a bit and then he's usually much better. 1 year is still pretty young, so he will likely calm more.

 

[Amrak]

He doesn't seem aggressive during the food theft and usually only does it once he's munched all of his own food. If I put food on the floor they'll eat from the same pile without issue or signs of stress.

My younger one is VERY food driven. It's a problem even when I'm trying to eat something like chicken or fish.

For his "play" it seems like it can come out of nowhere sometimes. Older boy will be napping and my younger guy will start biting his hind legs and back. Older boy has a lot less patience for it than he used to. Younger will also sometimes want to groom older boy's face but he doesn't allow it anymore.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. The relationship is probably deteriorating because the older one cannot, or won't, teach the younger one to leave him alone, and is getting fed up with it. That is where you come in to take the place of your older cat to teach the younger one some 'cat manners'. Picking up the younger cat when he is bugging the older one, saying 'No' or hissing in his face (pick one and stick with it), and taking him to another room for a 1-2 minute time out (no longer than that as it loses its effectiveness because the cat will forget why he was placed there). When you let him out, just go on about your business and don't scold him or act differently. Unfortunately for you, this is a full time job in that it has to be done each and every time and consistently to get the point across to the younger cat. It also helps reinforce confidence in your older cat because he will see you 'have his back'. The same goes for when the younger one bothers you while you are eating.

You could try a more 'cat-like' technique, which would be to hold the younger cat down to the ground and say no. But, if you do, you have to do it gently, and yet firmly enough to disable him from squirming away from you.

Doing what was suggested above about their meal times is probably the best way to stop the younger one from stealing the older one's food. if you don't have them separated. If you are not watching the entire time when you put food down on the floor for them to share, the odds are that the younger one is eating most it.

I hate to see any cat blocked from a room when it causes them to cry outside the door. It may be that once he 'gets' the 'stop bugging your buddy' training during play/attack sessions, that he may stop causing disruption at night - and, the older one will be less opposed to his presence. Until then, you can try to let both be in your bedroom at night, separate sides of the bed, within you in between. There will no doubt be some 'disrupted sleep' nights for you. You could also consider seeing if you can get the younger cat to accept being in an enclosed cat bed that sits on your bed, as that will stop him from bothering his older brother overnight, but enable both to be near you.

I would also suggest you give the younger cat a serious play session before bed time to help tire him out. That may also be what you need to do at other times as well. As you suggested, trying to tire him out might not always work, but the longer he gets these play sessions, it should help to curb his interest in trying to play with the older cat.

You may have to separate them when you are away, swapping sites of who is moved to another room each time. If you see any improvement in the younger cat's behavior, then you might be able to stop doing so. Giving them both their 'amenities' as well as entertainment, such as cat trees/perches, interactive toys, etc. while they are separated when you are away probably would help, especially with the younger one.

Just my !!

 

[Kris107]

If you tire out the younger, make sure there's good "wind down" time away from the other cat. Otherwise he could just take his play behavior to the other cat. I agree that it's time for you to make some rules. No one would like to be resting and out of nowhere get jumped. That's not okay behavior. Cats can learn that it isn't okay. Definitely don't feed them all from one bowl. A bowl for each of them. When young cat eats all of his, he should leave the area so old one can finish. It's not about being aggressive, but about them each feeling secure with their resources. I hate it when I go to a restaurant and someone keeps coming by asking if I'm done yet. That's basically what the younger is doing.

 

[Kris107]

My two were playing pretty rough this morning and I heard an audible cat-OUCH! sound, so I got up and told them to knock it off. I stood in between where the cats were for a minute or two so they would take a breath. They know that when mom gets up and yells that they're being too much. They calmed down shortly after.

 

[Amrak]

Yeah, my older boy (Zuko, let's go with their names to make it easier ) us very mellow and non territorial so even when Wazo (younger boy) is being annoying, he'll just meow loudly and lay there. Recently has started hissing at him when he does it tho.

I do separate at meal times. Zuko used to be a cat for whom I could put the whole day's portion down and he'd eat it slowly over the while day, now I feed him in 2 meals like I do wazo and he eats all of it immediately.

I'll try the brief timeout method with him. He's also a big chewer so I have to be very mindful of wires and stuff around him.

 

[Amrak]

I've also been thinking about getting an exercise wheel to help Wazo with his high energy

 

[Amrak]

I just corrected Wazo for jumping on the TV stand (firm no and gently pushing against his side until he jumps back down) and he immediately turned around and imediately attacked Zuko who was just taking a nap on top of a box then took the spot on top of the box after I managed to separate them

I'll keep an eye peeled to see if he tends to redirect his frustration on Zuzu whenever I correct him.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Are you correcting Wazo, in that same/similar manner, a lot? It could be a form of redirected aggression - instead of reacting to you, he takes it out on Zuko. I know you did this gently, but most cats aren't going to take kindly to being pushed off from something, even if they ended up jumping. There is a good chance he jumped to avoid falling off. Perhaps, picking him up and placing him on the floor would be a more amenable approach to take with him.

Once Wazo attacked Zuko, if you are choosing to follow what I suggested, he then should have been picked up, told no, and placed in a time out. And, then you could have helped Zuko back to his place on the box where he wasn't bothering anyone. Letting Wazo sit where Zuko was only confirmed to him that he might not have been able to stay on the TV stand or continue the attack on Zuko, but in a sense he got his way by taking over the place where Zuko was.

 

[Amrak]

He did get a short time out but immediately went to the spot Zuko was on before the fight. I removed him from there as soon as he tried to lay down.

By that time Zuko was cozy up at the very top of the cat tree. He seems to favor those spots recently because Wazo is very bad at jumping and has a hard time reaching the top shelves of the tree (over 6 feet tall)

 

[Amrak]

Thems the boys:

 

[FeebysOwner]

OK, gotcha!!! In that case, since Zuko had moved onto another location, no reason to move Wazo. Good that Zuko can find a way to get away from Wazo - that helps a lot, at least for Zuko!

EDIT: Thanks for the pics!! Always love seeing the 'guilty' and not-so-guilty parties!

 

[Amrak]

I think whatcI find really sad about all this is that Wazo often tries to groom Zuko or rub against him but Zuko doesn't want to let him anymore because of all the surprise attacks. He's understandably warry around his brother.

 

[FeebysOwner]

That is sad. Too bad we can't reason with cats to let Wazo know that if he would stop 'attacking' Zuko, he would likely be able to groom him with no objections from Zuko. Maybe that can happen down the road, if you can get Wazo to stop pestering Zuko otherwise.

 

[Alldara]

Does the younger one have anything to wrestle that isn't his cat brother?

Cal has to have wrestle play or he gets too too rough with Magnus and it starts to deteriorate their relationship.

We have the Flopping fish but I also play with a large kicker with him or an obnoxiously coloured Halloween oven mitt from the dollar store. He can go hard on those things and then he's able to hold back with this brothers.

 

[Amrak]

Yes, the have a kicker and a squirrel that flops around by beating it's tail.

 

[Alldara]

Yes, the have a kicker and a squirrel that flops around by beating it's tail.

Do you play with him with the kicker though? A kicker that sits there, of course is not as exciting as his cat brother.

I would not have any relief if I didn't actively play with Cal, with the kicker. I have one long enough that he usually does not accidentally scratch me.

 

[Kflowers]

Are you certain you're feeding Zuko, the younger one enough? A younger cat needs more than an older one, and Zuko has barely finished growing. In fact he may still have a bit of growing to do. If he's hungry that could be putting an extra edge into his play as his hunger tells him he should be hunting, even while his mind is telling him this is friend. Of course, a lot of cat play is practicing hunting, so it gets complicated.

 

[Amrak]

Wazo is the younger one, but yes I'm certain. He's just very food driven. If I let him he would eat until he gets sick.

He's at a good weight and has been seen and weighted by a vet 3 times since I've got him.