Rehoming and Rescue didn’t work out and became disaster, not sure where to turn.

catsknowme

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
11,458
Purraise
6,679
Location
Eastern California,USA
:alright: You are certainly dealing with a lot but here at TCS, you will find yourself in good company. Tragedy, chaos, horror, disaster, disabilities, illness can often be found in the survivors' situations (often in a combination of several -or even more- concurrently) but I believe that is what gives many of us the compassion, determination and ongoing courage to valiantly care for kitties in need. And although the social status for cats is improving, in many areas dogs get more resources and less vilification than cats.
For your current situation, one of the most urgent questions needing answers is: Are the kittens, and also the mama kitty, spayed/neutered? If not, your relative might not yet be considered the sole owner of the kittens. Your local animal control officers could probably give you some guidance about local ordinances - you don't need to give them specific details, just ask for general information.
My next question/suggestion is about preparing yourself to continue the daunting task of finding wonderful homes for the kittens. Are you able to consult your primary healthcare provider about getting a temporary medication to help take the edge off of your stress? Dealing with such a negative (dare I say "toxic"?) living situation on top of all the other dynamics can cloud the mind and overburden the heart & spirit. It took me decades to finally accept the advice that worked best which was to discover a medication that didn't interfere with my pre-existing conditions & therapies & extraordinary family responsibilities; as certain medications are used more & more, it gets discovered that there are "off-label" benefits as well. For example (and this in no way is inferring that these apply to you or me): certain antidepressants are now used to ease chronic pains. The antidepressant Wellbutrin (bupropion) was approved in 1997 by FDA for smoking cessation and is now being studied, and indicated, for weight loss, PTSD, social avoidance and ADHD! And semiglutide which is popular in treating Type 2 diabetes is now so popularly prescribed for weight loss that there is a shortage of the injectable form Ozempic and the oral form Rybelsus is quickly following suit. Anyway, I found that waiting a few weeks to give my new med a chance to work has helped me to think more clearly and be more decisive which is giving me much more energy and feel a lot happier.
Please keep us updated....and don't forget: we TCSers love pictures! :camera:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
I can't speak for that rescue, but speaking on the part of a rescue I used to volunteer at many years ago (before I moved), one thing that frustrated us was when people would seem to be blowing hot and cold about whether or not to hand their pet into rescue, us keeping a cage free just in case they decided "yes", meant that a pet who desperately needed to come into the rescue, had to wait for even longer, as I think you can understand that wasnt a option, leaving a pet that could die out on the streets, cause someone was "do I hand my pet in, don't I, I need the rescue to keep a cage free for me just in case" thing

Another thing that used to happen that really gets to me is we had people who would hand pets in for stupid reasons (for example, redecorating their house then deciding the cat was now the wrong colour and "clashed with the wallpaper" or whatever

Reason I'm saying the second thing, is some of their treatment of you could be that other people have given reasons like that before, so they might be letting emotions be getting in the way
Ahh you mean a full blown surrender?
That’s interesting because I didn’t think you could hold reservations for a surrender, so I thought spots were usually just given to the first animals that were legitimately handed over.

Yes I could understand how that scenario could be frustrating, though I also understand the back and forth of the person not knowing if they should/must give up their beloved pet.
Wanting the rescue to “hold” their spot is a bit much though, yea. Sounds more like they ‘can’ keep their pet but just can’t decide whether or not they want to..which is not an emergency and could indeed interfere with emergency cases.
I would never request such a thing.
The type of service I was involved with requires the owner(s) to be able to keep their pet(s) until a home is found, no matter how long that takes.
I guess it really is like a foster, but with no financial resources being provided by the rescue or any outside sources.

The person working my case mentioned they had plenty of time on their hands and not many other animals to address (if any).
This is a huge organization and facility but the amount of animals they assist is, I admit, on a very small scale, specifically adoption-wise.
In yet another review the place was described as “effete”, which may be accurate on some level, even though they clearly do help a certain amount of animals.
I think that’s sort of their brand, quality over quantity maybe.

The amount of work I put in to even get the kittens into the service and then some, was tedious..because it’s multiple different kittens- scanning, converting, editing documents so they can be sent in a certain form-and I didn’t want to combine them into one conglomerate.
One of the places they received FIV/FeLV tests at also caused me to lose around 3.5 weeks of time waiting for them to give me actual proof of negative results..the amount of times I had to email them and call and leave a message or explain what I meant by “tangible proof of results” was ridiculous.
The kittens would not be allowed to use the service without proof.
When it came down to the rest of the paperwork, I went kind of overboard on their personality profiles and such, which made creating bios for them very easy via summarizing.
I took plenty of great pictures of the babies as well, and organized everything the best I could before sending it along. I really tried to put in as much effort as possible so that the rescue could just focus on finding them homes.
So what was left was the promoting/posting, conversing with me, and screening.
(The second of which was probably their least favorite..the other two, I admit, they did a pretty good job for what it was
All care and veterinary requirements are to be coordinated and fulfilled by the current owner (myself and my relative) so the rescue didn’t have to deal with any of that either.

Obviously someone who is not serious about adopting out their kittens..simply doesn’t do all of this, and more.
..which probably confused the place further when things started to go awry and my relative became more of a known entity.
Me going on and on about having so much prepared for the kittens departure probably left them with whiplash too..ugh, but I did not intend for this to go south.
(I’ve got hundreds of dollars worth of ‘take home’ packages for the kittens that I purchased things for and now I don’t know wth to do with them.)

Luckily I did not cause other cats to lose a spot at their facility (which I believe already has a long waiting list and very few spots to begin with, for the spacious living arrangements).
But I’m sure I still inadvertently wasted their time and effort, which could have arguably been directed elsewhere.
As well as getting the adopter’s hopes up and stressing out one of my kittens for what amounted to no reason.
I apologized to the nth degree for that much, to the rescue.
From what I can tell though, it seems unlikely that the wasted time and effort affected other animals in their care.
But this is a very odd duck of an organization, so in most other rescues and most other animal welfare factions, I probably would have done more damage.

Oh my..clashing with the wallpaper!?
What on earth is wrong with people..although now that you mention it, I had a potential adopter (not through the rescue) in the early days who said their black cat blended in with the carpet and they also said they did not want another black kitten..but I don’t think the carpet was the reason, just an off hand comment.
It did cause me to raise an eyebrow though.

Well if the rescue did let their own emotions get involved, wherever they may have stemmed from..then I guess we have that in common.
(One of them seemed really eager to get the meeting over with once we all arrived, both myself and the potential adopter & co kind of took forever..this was before any actual upheaval occurred. So maybe this staff member was already aggravated by something else or had other plans, idk.)

Thank you for your perspective!
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
Just don’t stop trying. We spoke elsewhere and you need to know that to some extent, every loving person letting go of a kitty faces doubts, worries, feelings of “is this the right place” and “if only”. In spite of the horrible situation you find yourself in, your heart is in the right place. It can be overwhelming for even experienced people. I have held to head of a shelter as she wept at letting kittens go! She had previously appeared tough, hardened and at times I was concerned about the lack of knowing much or anything at times. Her tears totally changed my view. She had bonded with some kittens, even though she had moved many, many dozens without showing emotion. Spaces are limited and I have heard practically every kind of story possible. I agree that giving an apology, whether you feel it is needed or not, could give you other avenues. Perhaps they could suggest another shelter. You just have to keep trying. I once sat holding a litter and wondering how I would ever find homes for them and older cats on my property. It can be so discouraging. That said, I just kept texting, emailing and searching then repeat back to the same sources and if I was told no, I asked every time,”Do you know of anyone else who could help?” After a time I finally got a yes! :hyper: After that it seemed that the doors had been opened for me! I gained confidence, hope and trust. Well over a hundred later, I can say that I only ever worried about two and to be honest, it was probably because of my bond with them and feeling that I wished I had kept them. I could not have kept them. The thing about keeping more than are safely and well cared for is that it can become a hoarding situation. It sounds like your relative is a bit like that but wanting to blame you. It is very hard to deal with that but just do the very best you can and never, ever give up. Maybe these kitties are part of getting you over some of your social withdrawal? It’s good if you can put yourself out there to get these little lives saved. I know it’s a battle and you should know that we see others on the site with very similar problems. You are not alone in this. I can tell you would fight to keep the kitties safe. That’s awesome! Just try to work on a little trust and see who you can find to help. You certainly have support here as you find your way.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
:alright: You are certainly dealing with a lot but here at TCS, you will find yourself in good company. Tragedy, chaos, horror, disaster, disabilities, illness can often be found in the survivors' situations (often in a combination of several -or even more- concurrently) but I believe that is what gives many of us the compassion, determination and ongoing courage to valiantly care for kitties in need. And although the social status for cats is improving, in many areas dogs get more resources and less vilification than cats.
For your current situation, one of the most urgent questions needing answers is: Are the kittens, and also the mama kitty, spayed/neutered? If not, your relative might not yet be considered the sole owner of the kittens. Your local animal control officers could probably give you some guidance about local ordinances - you don't need to give them specific details, just ask for general information.
My next question/suggestion is about preparing yourself to continue the daunting task of finding wonderful homes for the kittens. Are you able to consult your primary healthcare provider about getting a temporary medication to help take the edge off of your stress? Dealing with such a negative (dare I say "toxic"?) living situation on top of all the other dynamics can cloud the mind and overburden the heart & spirit. It took me decades to finally accept the advice that worked best which was to discover a medication that didn't interfere with my pre-existing conditions & therapies & extraordinary family responsibilities; as certain medications are used more & more, it gets discovered that there are "off-label" benefits as well. For example (and this in no way is inferring that these apply to you or me): certain antidepressants are now used to ease chronic pains. The antidepressant Wellbutrin (bupropion) was approved in 1997 by FDA for smoking cessation and is now being studied, and indicated, for weight loss, PTSD, social avoidance and ADHD! And semiglutide which is popular in treating Type 2 diabetes is now so popularly prescribed for weight loss that there is a shortage of the injectable form Ozempic and the oral form Rybelsus is quickly following suit. Anyway, I found that waiting a few weeks to give my new med a chance to work has helped me to think more clearly and be more decisive which is giving me much more energy and feel a lot happier.
Please keep us updated....and don't forget: we TCSers love pictures! :camera:
Thank you for your response and for your compassion!

Mama cat still needs to be spayed. An attempt was made but because she is still feral, it’s hard getting her into a cage without fear of being ripped to pieces.
She is too smart to be tricked again!

All babies up for adoption are altered, it was another requirement before they were allowed to be a part of the rehoming service.
I found two good low cost places that they were performed at.
Are there other ways that I could figure out how much ownership one has over the pets in a home?

As for medication, I stay away from most, especially those that mess with brain chemistry.
I’ve tried my fair share of that sort of thing, as it’s basically forced on every miserable person at least once in their life..and all it caused was more hell, awful side effects and stigmatization.
Never again.
I’ve read a lot of literature on the subject and done my research too late, but I have an extremely critical stance on the whole matter.
Not to offend your suggestion or anything.
All of my reasons for mental distress are physical, environmental, social, external, permanently situational..so I find that nothing which only masks symptoms without addressing the core cause(s) does much more than further complicate things, in my case.
..I would still gladly take something as needed for the physical symptoms of anxiety (shaking, sweating, burning, etc) and I would definitely take something for SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP.
I wish someone would pop me with a tranquilizer honestly.
My insomnia has been on another level for the past 5+ years.

I have taken something in the past for sleep but it was an off label use of a psych drug so it caused me other issues besides helping with sleep.
Now I have been taking cbd oil, but only at night..for sleep.
It works only if I take massive amounts of it (full spectrum) and even gives me a pleasant feeling where I can have some hours without stress (which just makes me want to stay awake lol).
But it also makes me rather dim, super hungry, puffy(er) in the eyes, dehydrated and the short term memory loss is irritating.
It is also extremely expensive, so I can’t use it every night..nor during the day as to avoid coming across as a total ditz.

But yea, it is a toxic and suffocating dynamic with my relative, and my life would be enough of that without them. So they are basically kicking someone when they’re down.
I would take a Xanax once in awhile if I had to-especially to avoid anxiety and emotional outbursts in inappropriate settings, but approaching a healthcare provider about that just usually opens another can of worms..which I have no tolerance for at this stage in my life and suffering.
Too bad it’s not OTC.

Still, I am really glad you found something that worked for you, it sounds like you have been through a lot yourself!
Thank you again for taking the time to answer, welcome me, and offer your suggestions.

As for pics..I will try to once I am at the member level where I am able to delete them soon after lol (is that possible?), I want to post the babies but don’t want to keep them up for too long (privacy reasons).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
I will share a picture of one of my rescues who wasn't adopted because of excessive shyness. She is now 2 years old and very outgoing and often bullies the other cats! :dunno:
View attachment 438318
Absolutely adorable! I want to hold her!
(My kittens I have would have torn those flowers to shreds before I could take a picture with them in the background.)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
Just don’t stop trying. We spoke elsewhere and you need to know that to some extent, every loving person letting go of a kitty faces doubts, worries, feelings of “is this the right place” and “if only”. In spite of the horrible situation you find yourself in, your heart is in the right place. It can be overwhelming for even experienced people. I have held to head of a shelter as she wept at letting kittens go! She had previously appeared tough, hardened and at times I was concerned about the lack of knowing much or anything at times. Her tears totally changed my view. She had bonded with some kittens, even though she had moved many, many dozens without showing emotion. Spaces are limited and I have heard practically every kind of story possible. I agree that giving an apology, whether you feel it is needed or not, could give you other avenues. Perhaps they could suggest another shelter. You just have to keep trying. I once sat holding a litter and wondering how I would ever find homes for them and older cats on my property. It can be so discouraging. That said, I just kept texting, emailing and searching then repeat back to the same sources and if I was told no, I asked every time,”Do you know of anyone else who could help?” After a time I finally got a yes! :hyper: After that it seemed that the doors had been opened for me! I gained confidence, hope and trust. Well over a hundred later, I can say that I only ever worried about two and to be honest, it was probably because of my bond with them and feeling that I wished I had kept them. I could not have kept them. The thing about keeping more than are safely and well cared for is that it can become a hoarding situation. It sounds like your relative is a bit like that but wanting to blame you. It is very hard to deal with that but just do the very best you can and never, ever give up. Maybe these kitties are part of getting you over some of your social withdrawal? It’s good if you can put yourself out there to get these little lives saved. I know it’s a battle and you should know that we see others on the site with very similar problems. You are not alone in this. I can tell you would fight to keep the kitties safe. That’s awesome! Just try to work on a little trust and see who you can find to help. You certainly have support here as you find your way.
Thank you Jcatbird Jcatbird !
Yes I found your comments while searching for other avenues of rehoming and I think I even alluded to finding one of your comments earlier in this thread lol.
Your history and experience gave me hope..that if I have to end up doing this on my own, that I just might be able to.
I am pretty good at emailing around and have gotten alot better with phone calls too.
It’s just the IRL and any aftermath that kills me, and will do so until the end of my days, for other reasons I won’t delve into, but yes..I may have to at least temporarily overcome certain things for these baby cats.
I would do almost anything to make sure they have a good life.
Makes me feel kind of bad for the senior cats living here, but part of getting these kittens homes is also so the resident cats go back to receiving their usual amount of attention.

Ah, your head of shelter story is heart breaking but sort of reminds me of how I was acting for a few months while getting the kittens into the rehoming service..robotic, tunnel vision, until the emotional sh*t hit the fan and the floodgates opened.
Sounds like you have made your way around the block regarding this sort of thing..

I did apologize to the rescue left and right even in my previous emails and over the phone, but yes, I plan on doing so again when making my final request that I outlined in some of my recent responses in this thread.
I just don’t know how it will be taken.
I do hope to find some solution along the way, even if it’s not the one I first had my sight set on.
I will try to follow your lead of persistence!

Yea..my relative has developed minor hoarding tendencies, which have become moderate any time I am temporarily absent from the home and cannot force them to throw things out.
I probably keep too many things myself, but more in a storage type of way, I keep them nice, and also throw just as much away.
My relative gets mad if I throw away their TRASH for them and insist it’s useful and not trash.
But they have never been that way with animals, growing up, we always had a reasonable limit on pets.
I think it’s just the fact that once something is here and becomes part of the way things are..even if it’s a living creature, it ain’t going anywhere.
It wouldn’t even be so bad if there weren’t already a few cats here or if mama cat didn’t have so many babies.

They won’t go searching for more cats but I think they’re worried that if the senior cats pass away, there won’t be any babies left here to take their place.
And in some way..I get that. It would be strange if all the other cats died and then there weren’t a couple of the only ones we saw raised from the day they were born, around.
(I don’t think any kitten or cat could replace them and the prospect may even be avoided for the simple reason of: “they’re not one of the babies/might as well have just kept the babies”).
Not all of my relative’s attachment to the cats is bad..but the way they treat me is horrific, especially considering my overall situation on its own.
And you’re right..they always find a way to blame me somehow, whether it’s about the kittens or something else.
Honestly, if they were younger and acted like a fairly normal, empathetic relative and human being..I would just leave things be with the stipulation of “No More, that’s it after this”.
I won’t lie..I’ve seen people with more cats who make it work, but it’s my own situation and my relative’s age & way of being, among other factors..that does not allow for a similar amount of cats to be cared for smoothly or long term.

Thank you for your support!
And it’s nice to read that I’m not as much of an anomaly on here as I thought (though I’m not so sure that’s a good thing lol).
 

treeclimber

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
192
Purraise
255
I spoke with my mother again and she still seemed willing to help..but both of us still don’t know if it’s worth it, main reason being if my other relative were to have legal recourse for having their name on vet papers and claiming ownership.
You are the one who brought the mother cat home with you to have the kittens, eg. you are the person who engaged in the act of obtaining the “property” (it is so weird that kittens are “property”). If your relative was asked about this in a legal setting they would either have to admit that you are the one who brought the cat home or commit perjury on a fact where other people would be able to confirm your version was the truth.

Vet bills do not transfer ownership of the kittens from you to your relative - they could be used as evidence in a situation where ownership was not clear, but in this case it seems like ownership is pretty clear. Especially since your relative is not a spouse that you jointly own most of your possessIons with - they sound more like a roommate that you happen to be related to. If I had a roommate who took my car or bike to a mechanic, paid for some repairs, and listed themselves as the owner on the paperwork, it would still legally be my car/bike. Because I’m the one who bought it, and I did not engage in any action that clearly indicated I was selling or giving it to my roommate.

And to put the icing on the cake, your relative is already aware of and expressed agreement with the idea of rehoming the kittens, so any dispute would just be about how the rehoming happened, which would make your relative sound extremely trivial and petty.

If they tried to go to the police about you going through with the rehoming or taking the kittens to your mother, they would get nowhere, the police have other things to do with their time. (In a lot of places you’re lucky if you can get them to do anything if someone saws through your lock, steals your bicycle, and you find the thief listing it for sale on Craigslist.) Even if your relative somehow got the police to listen, the kittens could not be retrieved and returned to the relative without getting a judge on board too, the police can’t just show up and take the kittens back. And for you to get in legal trouble over it would also require a prosecutor willing to move forward with a case against you (in addition to the police), which no sane prosecutor would do, then the case also ending up with a judge who would support this absurdity.

So that leaves suing over the matter in a civil court, in which case your relative had better have a lot of money they can waste, there’s probably not a lawyer anywhere on the planet who would take their case pro bono. A lawyer also wouldn’t risk taking their fee from winnings for a case where they’re unlikely to win and the person being sued doesn’t have any money anyway.

The whole “legal ownership” thing sounds like meaningless threats/bluster on the part of your relative. Which you are probably used to by now. Don’t let their nonsense scare you out of doing the right thing for the kittens, whatever that might turn out to be.

I am not a lawyer, this post should not be taken as legal advice, just a semi-well-informed opinion.
 
Last edited:

tiggerwillow

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
713
Purraise
1,315
Ahh you mean a full blown surrender?
That’s interesting because I didn’t think you could hold reservations for a surrender, so I thought spots were usually just given to the first animals that were legitimately handed over.

Yes I could understand how that scenario could be frustrating, though I also understand the back and forth of the person not knowing if they should/must give up their beloved pet.
Wanting the rescue to “hold” their spot is a bit much though, yea. Sounds more like they ‘can’ keep their pet but just can’t decide whether or not they want to..which is not an emergency and could indeed interfere with emergency cases.
I would never request such a thing.
The type of service I was involved with requires the owner(s) to be able to keep their pet(s) until a home is found, no matter how long that takes.
I guess it really is like a foster, but with no financial resources being provided by the rescue or any outside sources.

The person working my case mentioned they had plenty of time on their hands and not many other animals to address (if any).
This is a huge organization and facility but the amount of animals they assist is, I admit, on a very small scale, specifically adoption-wise.
In yet another review the place was described as “effete”, which may be accurate on some level, even though they clearly do help a certain amount of animals.
I think that’s sort of their brand, quality over quantity maybe.

The amount of work I put in to even get the kittens into the service and then some, was tedious..because it’s multiple different kittens- scanning, converting, editing documents so they can be sent in a certain form-and I didn’t want to combine them into one conglomerate.
One of the places they received FIV/FeLV tests at also caused me to lose around 3.5 weeks of time waiting for them to give me actual proof of negative results..the amount of times I had to email them and call and leave a message or explain what I meant by “tangible proof of results” was ridiculous.
The kittens would not be allowed to use the service without proof.
When it came down to the rest of the paperwork, I went kind of overboard on their personality profiles and such, which made creating bios for them very easy via summarizing.
I took plenty of great pictures of the babies as well, and organized everything the best I could before sending it along. I really tried to put in as much effort as possible so that the rescue could just focus on finding them homes.
So what was left was the promoting/posting, conversing with me, and screening.
(The second of which was probably their least favorite..the other two, I admit, they did a pretty good job for what it was
All care and veterinary requirements are to be coordinated and fulfilled by the current owner (myself and my relative) so the rescue didn’t have to deal with any of that either.

Obviously someone who is not serious about adopting out their kittens..simply doesn’t do all of this, and more.
..which probably confused the place further when things started to go awry and my relative became more of a known entity.
Me going on and on about having so much prepared for the kittens departure probably left them with whiplash too..ugh, but I did not intend for this to go south.
(I’ve got hundreds of dollars worth of ‘take home’ packages for the kittens that I purchased things for and now I don’t know wth to do with them.)

Luckily I did not cause other cats to lose a spot at their facility (which I believe already has a long waiting list and very few spots to begin with, for the spacious living arrangements).
But I’m sure I still inadvertently wasted their time and effort, which could have arguably been directed elsewhere.
As well as getting the adopter’s hopes up and stressing out one of my kittens for what amounted to no reason.
I apologized to the nth degree for that much, to the rescue.
From what I can tell though, it seems unlikely that the wasted time and effort affected other animals in their care.
But this is a very odd duck of an organization, so in most other rescues and most other animal welfare factions, I probably would have done more damage.

Oh my..clashing with the wallpaper!?
What on earth is wrong with people..although now that you mention it, I had a potential adopter (not through the rescue) in the early days who said their black cat blended in with the carpet and they also said they did not want another black kitten..but I don’t think the carpet was the reason, just an off hand comment.
It did cause me to raise an eyebrow though.

Well if the rescue did let their own emotions get involved, wherever they may have stemmed from..then I guess we have that in common.
(One of them seemed really eager to get the meeting over with once we all arrived, both myself and the potential adopter & co kind of took forever..this was before any actual upheaval occurred. So maybe this staff member was already aggravated by something else or had other plans, idk.)

Thank you for your perspective!
what I mean is when people expect the rescue to hold a cage while they blow hot and cold (yes we did have things like that happen as well - we'd be all set to take their cat in, then they'd change their mind, then as soon as the cage was full they'd be like "actually we need to hand out cat is after all" and we wouldn't have space

cage holding was normally only for a few hours while the volunteers with transport actually collected the cat and brought him or her in, we would also get people who would dump (for want of a better way of putting it) elderly cats into the rescue - only to get a kitten (one case I still remember was where the owners got a new kitten, senior cat - 14 years old black cat - really hated the kitten, so they took 14 year old to the vet saying "we want her euthanased" (spelling), vet would refuse and would contact us at the rescue to say "can you take her in, her owners want us to kill her"

If I remember right, after nearly a year of her not getting chose simply due to her age and colour, one of the volunteers ended up adopting her

Another time I remember three cats handed in together by a neighbour, the owner had been evicted and the landlord had just dumped the three of them outside (all 3 cats had never been outside before so they were terrified), I grew attached to one of the three, she was in a bad depression and wouldn't eat, she was such a gentle girl, only about 2 or something, tabby and white, never came out of her cage - until one day when some people came in, we'd opened her cage to let her have a walk around the room (just in case, the lady sat near the cage while she was talking to a volunteer, as they were talking, out came one paw then a second then a third then the last paw - straight onto her lap :catrub: (sorry talking about the rescue sent me down memory lane - this girl was one who i would of took if i hadnt been living with family who could not have a cat cause family member was too frail to have pets in the house
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
what I mean is when people expect the rescue to hold a cage while they blow hot and cold (yes we did have things like that happen as well - we'd be all set to take their cat in, then they'd change their mind, then as soon as the cage was full they'd be like "actually we need to hand out cat is after all" and we wouldn't have space

cage holding was normally only for a few hours while the volunteers with transport actually collected the cat and brought him or her in, we would also get people who would dump (for want of a better way of putting it) elderly cats into the rescue - only to get a kitten (one case I still remember was where the owners got a new kitten, senior cat - 14 years old black cat - really hated the kitten, so they took 14 year old to the vet saying "we want her euthanased" (spelling), vet would refuse and would contact us at the rescue to say "can you take her in, her owners want us to kill her"

If I remember right, after nearly a year of her not getting chose simply due to her age and colour, one of the volunteers ended up adopting her

Another time I remember three cats handed in together by a neighbour, the owner had been evicted and the landlord had just dumped the three of them outside (all 3 cats had never been outside before so they were terrified), I grew attached to one of the three, she was in a bad depression and wouldn't eat, she was such a gentle girl, only about 2 or something, tabby and white, never came out of her cage - until one day when some people came in, we'd opened her cage to let her have a walk around the room (just in case, the lady sat near the cage while she was talking to a volunteer, as they were talking, out came one paw then a second then a third then the last paw - straight onto her lap :catrub: (sorry talking about the rescue sent me down memory lane - this girl was one who i would of took if i hadnt been living with family who could not have a cat cause family member was too frail to have pets in the house
Wow people are so casual about mistreating and neglecting their animals, I’m sorry you had to bear witness to such cruel whims.

Your last paragraph reminds me of what happened with my mom..her neighbors got a new puppy and eventually left and dumped their cats outside, not caring what happened to them as we approached winter season.
One of the cats liked being outside and hasn’t been seen since, but the other cat was indoor only and didn’t know how to survive out there, always following my mom and wanting to come in (she couldn’t take the cat inside because of her own cat, who would have attacked it).
So after a long while, another neighbor eventually took the kitty in, with my mom’s help, and now he is living a good life with his new owner.
..That is so sad about what the landlord did with those 3 kitties, but I’m glad the girl you looked after eventually came out of her shell.
Poor cats get so attached to their environment, I think removing them from what they know is arguably more detrimental than simply switching owners within the same environment.
So being thrown outside is probably one of the most shocking sudden shifts in what the cats know.

Thank you for sharing your stories.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
You are the one who brought the mother cat home with you to have the kittens, eg. you are the person who engaged in the act of obtaining the “property” (it is so weird that kittens are “property”). If your relative was asked about this in a legal setting they would either have to admit that you are the one who brought the cat home or commit perjury on a fact where other people would be able to confirm your version was the truth.

Vet bills do not transfer ownership of the kittens from you to your relative - they could be used as evidence in a situation where ownership was not clear, but in this case it seems like ownership is pretty clear. Especially since your relative is not a spouse that you jointly own most of your possessIons with - they sound more like a roommate that you happen to be related to. If I had a roommate who took my car or bike to a mechanic, paid for some repairs, and listed themselves as the owner on the paperwork, it would still legally be my car/bike. Because I’m the one who bought it, and I did not engage in any action that clearly indicated I was selling or giving it to my roommate.

And to put the icing on the cake, your relative is already aware of and expressed agreement with the idea of rehoming the kittens, so any dispute would just be about how the rehoming happened, which would make your relative sound extremely trivial and petty.

If they tried to go to the police about you going through with the rehoming or taking the kittens to your mother, they would get nowhere, the police have other things to do with their time. (In a lot of places you’re lucky if you can get them to do anything if someone saws through your lock, steals your bicycle, and you find the thief listing it for sale on Craigslist.) Even if your relative somehow got the police to listen, the kittens could not be retrieved and returned to the relative without getting a judge on board too, the police can’t just show up and take the kittens back. And for you to get in legal trouble over it would also require a prosecutor willing to move forward with a case against you (in addition to the police), which no sane prosecutor would do, then the case also ending up with a judge who would support this absurdity.

So that leaves suing over the matter in a civil court, in which case your relative had better have a lot of money they can waste, there’s probably not a lawyer anywhere on the planet who would take their case pro bono. A lawyer also wouldn’t risk taking their fee from winnings for a case where they’re unlikely to win and the person being sued doesn’t have any money anyway.

The whole “legal ownership” thing sounds like meaningless threats/bluster on the part of your relative. Which you are probably used to by now. Don’t let their nonsense scare you out of doing the right thing for the kittens, whatever that might turn out to be.

I am not a lawyer, this post should not be taken as legal advice, just a semi-well-informed opinion.
Thank you for taking the time to write this.
Well, when you put it like that, I do sound more like owner than my relative.
I hope you are mostly right on those notes.
..my relative is a pathological liar (and prone to exaggeration/twisting any truth) so I’m sure they wouldn’t be opposed to continuing that trend with the cats, unfortunately.

I like your mechanic analogy…that makes sense.
And yes, they were originally in agreement (as much as you can ever get them in agreement to anything) about the kittens needing homes..
I agree that the cops would consider this whole situation not worth their time, but I would rather not risk having to deal with them, especially since I know of someone in the local force and I have absolutely no desire to ever interact with them or have them in my business, that would be too much.
I’d probably leave out the back door if my relative pulled that nonsense.
Usually the cops are just a threat though..my relative also ironically threatens to throw me in the hospital and label me as mentally incapacitated..which is a pretty easy thing to do to just about anyone nowadays (police don’t require any proof of such a claim about “mental wellness”).
If they can’t get rid of me in one cage, they’ll resort to another.

My relative can’t even buy a box of cereal without complaining about the price and part of their hoarding tendencies seem to stem from unnecessary and contradictory cheapness.
So there is probably no way they would spend a morsel on this situation, though they would absolutely spend their time and energy on an annihilation campaign which could be worse than dealing with an indifferent court system.

Thank you again for what you’ve had to say, as much of it is still good for me to mull over and perhaps reassure myself of how little legal recourse my relative may have.
Yes, whatever the result of this situation may be..I will do what I can to make sure I do the right thing for the kittens.
 

tiggerwillow

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
713
Purraise
1,315
Wow people are so casual about mistreating and neglecting their animals, I’m sorry you had to bear witness to such cruel whims.

Your last paragraph reminds me of what happened with my mom..her neighbors got a new puppy and eventually left and dumped their cats outside, not caring what happened to them as we approached winter season.
One of the cats liked being outside and hasn’t been seen since, but the other cat was indoor only and didn’t know how to survive out there, always following my mom and wanting to come in (she couldn’t take the cat inside because of her own cat, who would have attacked it).
So after a long while, another neighbor eventually took the kitty in, with my mom’s help, and now he is living a good life with his new owner.
..That is so sad about what the landlord did with those 3 kitties, but I’m glad the girl you looked after eventually came out of her shell.
Poor cats get so attached to their environment, I think removing them from what they know is arguably more detrimental than simply switching owners within the same environment.
So being thrown outside is probably one of the most shocking sudden shifts in what the cats know.

Thank you for sharing your stories.
it isn't good to leave a cat when you move home though, they can and do adjust to new homes, they would rather stay with their meowmy or purrpa (familiar human), instead of getting taken away from their home *and* their human (often, when someone moves house, they will leave the cat behind then the new homeowner doesn't want or can't keep the cat, so will put the cat outside and discourage him/her from coming back into the house, which means the cat has lost everything familiar to them

just saying for in case anyone moves, don't leave cat behind, if you cannot take cat with you, better to take him/her to a rescue and say goodbye at the rescue
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
I would suggest that if you can keep some sort of diary or log or maybe even recordings or video without your relative knowing, it might be some protection for you personally and document what the situation is with the cats. I would do this carefully if the relative is volatile but it might help you. If nothing else, writing out your emotions can be a way to release pent up feelings. Only do this if you have privacy or can send it somewhere trusted and private. I hope you can get the kitties out and , someday, find a better place for yourself. Maybe something in the form of peace will enter their heart too.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
it isn't good to leave a cat when you move home though, they can and do adjust to new homes, they would rather stay with their meowmy or purrpa (familiar human), instead of getting taken away from their home *and* their human (often, when someone moves house, they will leave the cat behind then the new homeowner doesn't want or can't keep the cat, so will put the cat outside and discourage him/her from coming back into the house, which means the cat has lost everything familiar to them

just saying for in case anyone moves, don't leave cat behind, if you cannot take cat with you, better to take him/her to a rescue and say goodbye at the rescue
Oh I don’t mean straight up leaving them to fend for themselves, I mean if there is an option of them being cared for by another person while remaining in the home they know, then that is ideal.
If that option doesn’t exist, then yes, definitely take them with you.

The head staff member at the rescue actually told me a story about how their roommate was going to move and she had a cat, the staff member finally offered to keep her cat so that the cat could remain in her environment and didn’t have to make the move and the roommate was relived that the staff member offered, as they decided that would be what’s best for the cat.
Only one cat I had seemed to be more of a mommy’s girl who was comfortable elsewhere as long as I was with her, but most of our cats have seemed far more comforted by staying put, no matter who leaves.

I would never suggest abandoning your cat at a past property though, of course that would be terrible and is exactly what my mother’s neighbor did to their cats.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
I would suggest that if you can keep some sort of diary or log or maybe even recordings or video without your relative knowing, it might be some protection for you personally and document what the situation is with the cats. I would do this carefully if the relative is volatile but it might help you. If nothing else, writing out your emotions can be a way to release pent up feelings. Only do this if you have privacy or can send it somewhere trusted and private. I hope you can get the kitties out and , someday, find a better place for yourself. Maybe something in the form of peace will enter their heart too.
I have done that, yup, texted myself and such, but I don’t think I would ever share a recording and certainly don’t want to inadvertently record myself in addition to my relative.
As the very private person that I am, I would probably not be able to record someone and then blast it to another party..as I would be livid and irreversibly distraught if someone ever did the same to me.
So even if I did record their antics, it wouldn’t do me much good. Unless to remind myself that they’re the crazed one, not me.

I do have messages though, where they call me horrible, rotten things and dismiss and invalidate my suffering while simultaneously using it to somehow victimize themselves, so that would probably be enough to have on hand.
I am probably the nicest person to my relative and have done the most for them..they use me as their main audience for their own woes while scoffing and walking away any time I finally get to speak myself…I have nothing for them to detest me forand yet they treat me worse than anyone, by a country mile.
(Probably because someone in my position cannot dole out consequences.)
I am far worse off than they have ever been and yet they still attack me over merely existing and performing daily tasks.
I can’t even have an item of food or drink without them commenting negatively on it and regarding me as some evil creature for something as benign as guzzling a cold brew coffee in a can.
Quite literally everything I do is a sign to them of my “badness”.
When I do nothing at all, that’s when they resort to making things up.
I also know worse things they have said about me and I have to compartmentalize/keep them to myself in order to interact with them..but there is always the risk of my imploding or snapping eventually, which they will just use to further their campaign against me.
Hypocrisy is also an understatement when it comes to my relative.
Thank you jcatbird, I am certain my own days are numbered..I am tired..but I will still do my best to get the kittens out into better homes.
If I end up using a contract still, then I will probably make the back up party my mother secondary to myself, rather than my relative.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #36

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
*Not sure why my spacing didn’t show up for my last response, I did not mean for that to be a running paragraph. Sorry Jcatbird Jcatbird !
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
Don’t worry about spacing here. I have vision problems and often make errors.
As for the recordings, I simply meant that in case you need protection and not as an effort to do anything but that. It would also be a reminder to you to be careful how you respond. This person seems ill and may even need some sort of medical intervention and that would require some evidence. It would be better if you could go somewhere else once the kitties are adopted out. Maybe with your mother? That said, keep working on getting those sweet ones into a good place somewhere. They deserve to be where they can have forever homes. If you feel your days are numbered, you really need to take action. You can do this! Start emailing and get on it. Go back to family members or whatever it takes. Time to pull yourself out of your comfort zone for those precious ones. If surrendering them to the original shelter is what it takes or pleading with the vet you used for help, do it. Every life counts. Yours too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

treeclimber

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
192
Purraise
255
BTW, I never replied to something you said earlier about just having the vet advertise the kittens as available for adoption (instead of having the vet handle the adoption). I’d say yes, that’s a good idea - if you can get local vets to put up flyers for you, the people who see them will be people with cat experience who care enough about their current cats to take them to the vet. And if you can take a great photo like this of the kittens that shows them at their current size (and print it on a good printer) that will definitely draw peoples’ eyes to your flyer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #39

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
Don’t worry about spacing here. I have vision problems and often make errors.
As for the recordings, I simply meant that in case you need protection and not as an effort to do anything but that. It would also be a reminder to you to be careful how you respond. This person seems ill and may even need some sort of medical intervention and that would require some evidence. It would be better if you could go somewhere else once the kitties are adopted out. Maybe with your mother? That said, keep working on getting those sweet ones into a good place somewhere. They deserve to be where they can have forever homes. If you feel your days are numbered, you really need to take action. You can do this! Start emailing and get on it. Go back to family members or whatever it takes. Time to pull yourself out of your comfort zone for those precious ones. If surrendering them to the original shelter is what it takes or pleading with the vet you used for help, do it. Every life counts. Yours too.

Yea I figured you might have meant for that reason, and not as an offensive action, but just wanted to put my thoughts on it out there.
..I am usually calm when I respond but every once in awhile I reach my limit beyond limits.
I will try to be careful, my mother tells me the same thing, but walking on eggshells every second in your own home..and in your own mind..is pretty unnerving.
I don’t think my relative is ill, but that’s what they accuse everyone else of being when they don’t like what the other person has to say..they seem to pick and choose when to act like a certifiable cruel human being but then other times they try to play nice or calm down when basking in their supposed former glory days (never had one myself).

My mom’s home is full and no other comfortable place to go, staying here has simply been the lesser of evils as far as my circumstances go, as hard as that may be to comprehend.

But yes I have already started reaching out and reading up on resources that will help me with these kittens, I need to avoid a surrender but I’ll do everything else I can and still plan on seeing if I have any second shot with the previous prospective adopter once the rescue is open again.
Thanks for the support!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #40

catwheel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
30
Purraise
28
BTW, I never replied to something you said earlier about just having the vet advertise the kittens as available for adoption (instead of having the vet handle the adoption). I’d say yes, that’s a good idea - if you can get local vets to put up flyers for you, the people who see them will be people with cat experience who care enough about their current cats to take them to the vet. And if you can take a great photo like this of the kittens that shows them at their current size (and print it on a decent printer) that will definitely draw peoples’ eyes to your flyer.
Yup, that was exactly my thinking as far as having them advertised by a vet, most people who care enough to go and take a look at a poster or such, would likely make up a pool of more trustworthy pet owners than not.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top