Redirected aggression - very stressed

[ArtNJ]

Ok thanks. I appreciate your replies. To answer you, Art, I had one instance of charging. When Fiona went into the dining room, Ivy watched for a while and then slowly got up and started walking over. Fiona notices and crouched and started hissing and Ivy charged her. They both ran upstairs but Ivy didn’t proceed past the top stairs. Fiona ran into a bedroom but Ivy stayed at the top of the stairs. I walked up and picked her up and separated them. Ivy was all puffed but she unpuffed and relaxed when I picked her up. Fiona actually came down right after and was fine with me (Ivy was separated at this point).

This also started to happen today but I just grabbed her once I saw her starting to walk towards her before this could repeat.

I see. Well, that does warrant an extra session or two where you can watch. However, be cautious with the grabbing. You don't want to increase the stress, as FeebysOwner has pointed out. I suspect this is the "get away" kind of charging, not an attempt to roll on the floor with an actual fight. At some point, your going to need to let things happen and verify that, so you can be comfortable letting them work things out.

 

[AndreaFiona]

Ok. My feeling is that Ivy is being territorial about the dining room as what’s where the incident happened (the patio door is there where the stray tried to come in). I wish Fiona would just stay out of there and then I think Ivy wouldn’t do that but I don’t really know. And Fiona seems drawn like a moth to a flame to that room.

My main floor is all open so I can’t really lock them both out of there.

So you think it’s possible Ivy is just trying to get Fiona out of the dining room?

If this happens again should I just see what happens?

FYI the times the attacks happened (the initial attacks where the stray approaches) Fiona has never fought back. She just rolled on her back and kept desperately trying to get away.

 

[AndreaFiona]

And yes I understand about the grabbing. I can see how this could make it worse. I will try to not do that! I jut get panicked in the moment. I do know to be silent and no yelling, scolding etc.

 

[ArtNJ]

Yes, I'd see what happens. There is a limit to what you can do. I know you want to fix this, but you can't get them all the way - they are going to need to do that. It would suck if they fight. FeebysOwner and I don't think that is particularly likely, and your behaviorist didn't think so either, but there are no guarranties. But thats sort of life -- you can only do what you can. And you've done that I think. You need to see if they can do the rest. Your just doing some watching so that if we are wrong you can step in and minimize the damage, but given all you've already done and how hard you've worked, not gonna lie, real fighting would be a blow. But you've done what you can do.

 

[AndreaFiona]

Thank you. I do agree. That’s why I keep putting it off and hovering. I feel like If Ivy truly attacks again it’s the final nail in the coffin for her and i really really don’t want that. I will try for a bit more interaction tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thank you. I do agree. That’s why I keep putting it off and hovering. I feel like If Ivy truly attacks again it’s the final nail in the coffin for her and i really really don’t want that. I will try for a bit more interaction tomorrow and see what happens.

If for some reason there is an altercation, that is by NO means a final nail in Ivy's coffin. That is not the end, if it were to happen. And, you don't even know that it will. If Ivy does attack, but it is nothing more than batting, growling, hissing, and there is no fur pulled out or blood, it is part of the process of letting her 'get it out of her system'. Even if that were to happen, it is no where near deeming it a lost cause. You have to have some faith - despite an initial altercation, it doesn't mean the end of the road.

 

[AndreaFiona]

Thank you SO much for saying this. I guess we just see what happens and have a game plan for if it does? I really love her and want her to stay. I’m just really trying to do the right thing here and do it properly. But I’m soooooo glad I had no idea when this happened in August that I would still be doing this in December.

I really appreciate the encouragement and the statement that even if a fight happens again that we can still keep going. I don’t think a blood shedding attack would happen. I think the worst would be another intense stalk-chase-terrify incident.

Tomorrow I will give them a bit more freedom and see.

On an unrelated note....my basement flooded on Christmas Day . Not completely but partially. So I am awaiting the condo board to send someone in to deal with it. It’s adding to the stress around here so I am trying to keep that in mind too.

 

[AndreaFiona]

I tried giving the girls a bit more freedom today and it went ok. I pre-planned and worked them both out hard (separately) ahead of time with a wand toy. So far today they have had 3 sessions together and there were no issues. Ivy actually ended the last one on her own by heading down to the basement (she is always fine to go down at her specified time).

I will keep proceeding. I often feel at a loss at around the 5-10 min mark as the feeding/activities are done and we all kinda aren’t sure what to do I guess?

 

[ArtNJ]

I tried giving the girls a bit more freedom today and it went ok. I pre-planned and worked them both out hard (separately) ahead of time with a wand toy. So far today they have had 3 sessions together and there were no issues. Ivy actually ended the last one on her own by heading down to the basement (she is always fine to go down at her specified time).

I will keep proceeding. I often feel at a loss at around the 5-10 min mark as the feeding/activities are done and we all kinda aren’t sure what to do I guess?

You don't need to be their activity planner. Let them glomph on the couch or ploop down on the chair. A lot of nothing is the goal. Stare downs take too much energy, they can't stay like that forever. Give em time, and they will do . . . glorious nothing!

 

[AndreaFiona]

Haha ok! That would be amazing if they just wandered away to do nothing. I will keep going and let you know how it goes. We still have one more session tonight.

 

[AndreaFiona]

We had a pretty good day today. We had 4 get together a (with one still remaining) and all went well. The last one was a little bit iffy as Ivy got “stare-y” at the end.

The breakfast meeting went amazing. I didn’t even pay attention to them and they wandered around just fine. The late morning one had me feeding both treats in the “danger zone” dining room. All went fine except anytime Fiona went to the cat tree that’s there, Ivy rushed behind her and stringy scratched where Fiona has scratched. That sounds territorial? Do you think? Will that reduce in time or is it a sign of a bigger problem?

I had a contractor come in today about my basement so the cats had to be rearranged and were out of sorts in the afternoon. They still did have their meetings once he was gone but Ivy was stare-y and also very aggressively sniffing Fiona’s bum? She does this a lot and Fiona puts up with it for a bit and then clearly doesn’t like it and tries leaving.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Tbh, it all sounds pretty normal to me. Keep on doing what you're doing. There will be territorial reactions of course. The fact that all Ivy did was scratch the place that Fiona scratched is just like saying "Hey, that is mine, I am going to reclaim it by scratching over the place you just scratched." Sounds kind of like bratty little siblings, doesn't it? The bum smelling is common, and if it doesn't end any differently than the one being sniffed trying to leave, that would be expected.

 

[ArtNJ]

Andrea, your obviously super nice and trying really hard! Your a good cat mom. But you have to stop worrying so much and reading so much into ever little thing! I mean, just one example, "aggressively sniffing Fiona's bum" made me lol. Your cats seem to be fine, a little bit of lingering tension but nothing serious, and nothing they can't work through on their own. I'd move on to letting them be together when you are in the next room doing whatever, just so you can hear if there is a serious issue. In fact, giving how nervous you are, you being in hearing range but not in the room might be preferable.

 

[AndreaFiona]

Ok your lol made me lol!! I know I can be a bit much!! I am just really wanting them back together and trying to do the best I can at it! I appreciate your straight talk!!

I forgot to mention one good thing that happened. I opened Fiona’s door to let her out and Ivy came running but not aggressively. More because I was holding a bag of treats. Fiona halloween’ed And looked spooked but then almost seemed to think “oh it’s you” and unhalloween’ed and greeted her nicely.

I am just so desperate for the day they can be together and this can be behind us.

Thanks for listening and always responding. I really appreciate it.

Yes Feeby’s owner, I should see they are just being bratty siblings!! I hope that’s all it is. Tomorrow we keep going. I will have the contractor here tomorrow and the next day for a short bit but we will work around that.

 

[AndreaFiona]

An update for you. A few weeks have gone by and we are still plugging away. Things have been going well.

We can now do about an hour together with me minimally supervising them. I find they do best (or is it me doing best?) when we keep moving. I go from upstairs to downstairs doing chores and they sort of follow along together.

Yesterday I caught Ivy staring at Fiona when she was in the dining room danger zone. That seems to be my biggest fear. That that room will trigger another attack. Any advice? Or is this a needless worry? I have been feeding them occasionally in that area and giving treats there too.

I wonder how soon before I can just leave them loose. Really nothing concerning has happened but I wonder if it’s better to keep gradually increasing time?

 

[AndreaFiona]

I should mention when I caught her staring that I called her name and she immediately stopped and came over to me.

 

[Furballsmom]

I should mention when I caught her staring that I called her name and she immediately stopped and came over to me.

This is excellent that she was that easily distracted, but good for you for being alert to their body language. I don't know, there may need to be a tussle or two in order to help them be able to move past this stage. Its really hard to know.

 

[AndreaFiona]

We had a bad day today. They spent 2 hours together totally fine. Sleeping nearby etc and zero drama or staring. Later on I happened to glance at Fiona who had been sleeping at the top of the cat tree and noticed she was wild eyed, puffed up and looking panicked. Ivy had gone to the basement and was sauntering back up. It seemed as though from a distance Fiona didn’t recognize her and was terrified? Fiona flew down from the cat tree and ran past Ivy in a full panic. She also apparently was so scared she lost bladder control and urinated a small amount as as ran . Ivy puffed up when Fiona ran by but she actually didn’t chase and calmed as soon as she was gone.

I’m not sure why or how that happened. Ivy was clearly innocent and minding her own business. They had just spent 2 hours together and were fine but the sight of Ivy at a distance set Fiona off.

 

[Furballsmom]

Im not sure it was the sight of Ivy, this sounds like it was something else. In any case, hang in there and hopefully things calm back down

 

[AndreaFiona]

Thank you! I kept their interactions short all weekend. They seemed ok but both were a bit rattled by what happened. I started extending their time together again today. They were actually trilling at each other with the basement door between them today so I let them loose together and they did 20 min at lunch and 36 min just now. No drama. I wonder if I just took it too far by having them spend several hours all at once. I am going to try several 30 or so min sessions a day with breaks in between.

For some reason seeing each other at a distance seems to make them nervous. Up close they seem fine and comfortable. I’m not sure why that is.