Raw Recipe Thread

goholistic

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Thanks for posting this recipe!

I think we talked about this before, and we agreed that it would be okay if I used 0.75 lbs. of ground rabbit organs from Hare Today, which consists of approximately 50% liver, 25% heart and 25% kidney, in place of the chicken heart and chicken liver.

Don't I need to lightly cook the egg whites? I thought I wasn't supposed to give egg whites raw.

Also, if I leave out the fish oil in the recipe, can I add it at feeding time as I've always done?

Thanks for your help!
 
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mschauer

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I still see contradictory information with regards to egg whites. So I leave it up to you whether to cook them or not. They can even be left out entirely without significantly affecting the recipe nutrient profile. The yolk is where most of the nutrients are anyway. The whites mostly just add protein which the recipe has loads of even without them.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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I haven't gone the 'raw' route yet but do give Max some cooked egg yolks (just the yolk) from time to time, and he really likes this as a treat.
 

teatabby

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After doing a lot of research, I decided to switch both of my girls to homemade raw diets, mainly because Madelyn had been gaining a significant amount of weight. I also gently cook the egg whites and yolks and both of my girls will only eat rabbit meal. Madelyn has started losing a tiny bit of weight day by day thanks to her raw diet and I am glad that both she and Minnie have been licking their dishes clean every day. This recipe was really helpful and confirmed some of the questions I had about the amount of fish oil and taurine needed- thanks a lot!
 

goholistic

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Yup, any of the ingredients including the fish oil can be added at feeding time.  Isn't it a pain to fool with fish oil capsules at every meal? 
Well...yes. I was using softgels, but ended up switching to Ascenta Feline Omega 3. It's a liquid in an amber glass bottle. This type of fish oil was always at the bottom of my list for consideration; I always preferred a softgel with as few ingredients as possible. However, I just wasn't getting what I wanted in a softgel. I've tried a few human-grade softgels, but Sebastian either didn't like the taste/smell or it was just too much oil. Even when I tried to only use half, a lot went to waste (the other half didn't do well when left sitting out to oxidize) and trying to puncture it was a mess. I even bought a "triple strength" thinking I'd get more omegas out of it, but the softgel was just bigger. I also tried two types of salmon oil awhile back and that was a total flop. They all hated it. The Ascenta has very little smell and has a decent amount of DHA and EPA in only 1/4 tsp. HOWEVER, it does contain rosemary extract as a "natural preservative" and I know some people try to avoid this. Both Sebastian and Boo like it. Caesar doesn't count; he doesn't like anything. It is super easy to pour out. It's working out well, and I have no complaints.

Anyway....I am off topic.

I'll have you know that I took the raw rabbit out of the freezer and put it in the fridge to defrost. 
  I'm going to try making the raw rabbit recipe above in a smaller batch. I have everything but the vitamin E, manganese and B-complex. I will get those tonight.
 

silverpersian

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Thanks for the detailed recipe. Dr. Pierson's recipe doesn't have manganese. Since the amount is so little, would it be alright to omit it? I am sure that you have a very good reason for including it, and would like to learn from you.
 

cprcheetah

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Thanks for the detailed recipe. Dr. Pierson's recipe doesn't have manganese. Since the amount is so little, would it be alright to omit it? I am sure that you have a very good reason for including it, and would like to learn from you.
I have been researching it as I have been following Dr. Pierson's recipe.  I have decided to include it in my recipe http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutritional_requirements_and_related_diseases_of_small_animals.html  it is on the AAFCO's list of daily requirements for cats.
 
Manganese

This is important for the proper function of many proteins and carbohydrates, fertility and growth. Good sources of manganese are eggs, nuts and green vegetables - none of which are a cat's first food of choice. However, many pet food manufacturers also add manganese supplement to their products. Cats require 7 mgs of manganese for each kg of food eaten. The mineral is stored predominantly in the liver and to a lesser extent in the kidneys, pancreas, and bone. Manganese deficiency is rare, and if present it mainly affects kittens. Manganese-deficient cats are likely to be infertile, and may also suffer from stunted growth and some bone changes.
 Manganese This mineral is especially important to puppies and kittens, as well as older pets. Manganese helps ensure quality bone and cartilage. It also helps with the mitochondria function, or the cell’s energy source.
 

silverpersian

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Many thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that it seems necessary. I will have to start with the next batch - I have no idea of how to measure out such a tiny amount into one serving of food.

How much do you add to the 3 lb chicken recipe? Going by the 7 mg/kilo figure, right around 10 mg seems to be the right number. mschauer's recipe seems to have a little less.
 
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mschauer

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How much do you add to the 3 lb chicken recipe? Going by the 7 mg/kilo figure, right around 10 mg seems to be the right number. mschauer's recipe seems to have a little less.
The AAFCO recommendation for manganese is 7.5 mg/kg *DM* (dry matter). If you click on the link under the recipe I posted you'll find a directory of recipe PDFs that include a nutrient analysis. The one for the rabbit recipe shows the manganese is actually almost 2x the AAFCO recommendation. 

It is a bit of a challenge to add such a small amount. I do it by combining all of the supplements in a glass jar then shaking it vigorously to get the supplements evenly distributed then add it to my meat mixture. But I use MCHA as my calcium source which makes my supplement mix have quite a bit of volume and probably makes it easier to add small amounts. And I also usually make my food in at least 10 lbs quantities.

Adding roughly (doesn't need to be exact) 1/2 a capsule to a 3 lb batch would probably be fine. I'll check on that when I get home tonight.
 
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cprcheetah

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Many thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that it seems necessary. I will have to start with the next batch - I have no idea of how to measure out such a tiny amount into one serving of food.

How much do you add to the 3 lb chicken recipe? Going by the 7 mg/kilo figure, right around 10 mg seems to be the right number. mschauer's recipe seems to have a little less.
I added roughly about 1/2 a capsule per 3#
 

silverpersian

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I just noticed that you have a cat called "Munchie Bunchie." That is brilliant! All of your cats are so pretty!
 

cprcheetah

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I just noticed that you have a cat called "Munchie Bunchie." That is brilliant! All of your cats are so pretty!
Thank-you.  He was originally going to by my hubby's nephew's cat and his original name was from my handicapped nephew.......Butt Munchie :)  Munchie fit him so well as he devoured everything he could, we kept just Munchie.
 
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mschauer

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Thanks to both of you! This is 0.5 of a 10 mg capsule, right?
Yes.

I was doing  a bit of web surfing on manganese and ran across something I hadn't considered before. Your unfiltered tap water will contain some manganese. How much it contains I'm sure depends on your location. So, if the recipe comes up just a little low, if your cats drink plenty of water or you add water to the recipe, supplementing may not be necessary. When I get home I'll see just how low the recipe is in manganese without supplementation. 

Edit : Well, maybe not. According to the USDA database tap water generally *doesn't* contain manganese. That result is based on quite a few data points (that is it isn't just that no data is available) so I guess we should assume tap water doesn't help us with our manganese requirement.
 
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silverpersian

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Thank you for being so precise! I ordered the capsules and will start adding them to the food. I have gone from semi-cooked per Dr. Pierson, to almost completely raw. So far, so good. He seems to like the raw better.
 
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mschauer

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Adding roughly (doesn't need to be exact) 1/2 a capsule to a 3 lb batch would probably be fine. I'll check on that when I get home tonight.
I checked, 1/2 of a 10 mg capsule is more than enough for a 3 lb batch.
 

cprcheetah

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Here is my 'recipe' based off of Catinfo.org  getting tweaked with each new batch.  I finally think I have it figured out.  I have been doing a ton of research and have come up with the following supplement additions etc.   Mind you I am feeding 2 cats with some pretty big health issues so that is why the tweaking and I have read that cats need 1000mg of Fish Oil per day as well as 100 IU of Vitamin E so I made those adjustments as well.

 3 pounds of poultry thigh meat/bones/skin
     1 cup water

    2 eggs whole minus the shell

    5000 mg fish oil 

    400 IU Vitamin E

    50 mg Vitamin B-complex

    2,000 mg taurine

    3/4 tsp Morton Lite salt with iodine
     Liver - add 4 ounces of chicken livers per 3 lb of meat/bones/skin.  For future I am going to try to get kidneys from something other than beef that my boy can't have, and do 2oz kidneys and 2oz liver

    If using boneless meats add: (½) teaspoon of eggshell powder is needed per pound of meat and organ

    1/2 capsule of 10mg Manganese per 3#

I take all the supplements and grind them in my food processor/grinder and then add to the 1 cup of water.  I do not have a grinder so I use my Ninja chopper to make this

My Additional Supplements:
4  Glucosamine MSM Tablets 1500mg = 125mg per meal.
Lysine 28 scoops of powder (needs 1 scoop 1/8th teaspoon twice a day) 500mg per day   (I guess I could figure out how many teaspoons equal so many scoops so I can use a cup or tablespoon to make measuring easier....maybe with the next batch)
800 IU Vitamin E Additional  (have read cats need 100IU per day.
7000 additional fish oil (to get about 1000mg per day)
2,000mg additional taurine

This recipe yields (28) 2.2oz portions for my 2 kitties.

My cats also get additional supplements for their specific health concerns added in at feeding time.
 
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