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Raw Kitty Vomit, Then Doing Fine With Canned?

Discussion in 'Raw & Home-Cooked Cat Food' started by CHIKITTIES, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Hi, first time posting!

    I live with two domestic short hair kitties, 9.5 years old, female, from same littler. They are on modified Dr.Pierson's recipe almost two years. Modified means - (1) I buy ground from Hare Today instead of grinding myself, (2) I use different kind of proteins, Chicken, Rabbit, Turkey, Pork and occasional Duck.

    One of my kitty start having vomit incidents since Mid-December. First I thought it was emotional (I needed to travel 2 weeks in row after Thanksgiving, left them with cat sitter lady). Then I sort of linked her vomit with Pork, so stopped feeding Pork. Over the Christmas/New Year I traveled again, kitties ate canned only when I was away. I came home, start re-introducing raw. Seemed doing OK, but she did puke 4 times in January. She's been on half raw half canned lately.

    PUKE HISTORY
    Her puke in December were 1-2 hours after raw meal, food came out. Happened 4 times.
    1/7 after Rabbit raw
    1/8 after Pork raw
    1/16 yellow bile no food
    1/17 yellow bile no food tiny hair ball
    2/9 yellow bile no food
    2/9 after Rabbit raw

    WHAT IS KNOWN
    • Her sister is eating raw just fine, i.e. no bad batch
    • I did not change recipe at all
    • Met Vet, was told that she is in good shape (visual inspection only)(she had full blood panel in summer)
    • Activity wise she is fine. No change, sometimes quite active, cold and cloudy days are sleepy.
    • Her "output" is normal

    WHAT I AM CURRENTLY TRYING
    • Made bone broth
    • Will start primal goat milk (bought today)

    QUESTION
    • Did any kitty experience something similar? If so, did she/he ever able to go back to raw? Or ended up settling down with canned or cooked food?
    • I am wondering maybe Probiotic or digestive enzyme might help?

    I am really hoping to go back to raw, or possibly home cooked. Buying canned food is very difficult after making raw ... there is almost always some ingredients I think "???" ...:stars:

    Any comment is appreciated. Thank you very much!
     

  2. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Few other things I forgot to write;
    • Try making raw without bone, with eggshell?
    • If raw, she eats from bowl. If canned, she wants me to hand feed (thank goodness mama cat is vegetarian!).
    • Her last hairball episode was in August. They are short hair, allow me to brush, and usually don't have much hairball issue. Only few times a year, mainly in Spring/Summer time.
    Thanks!!
     

  3. Wile

    Wile Opener of cans Alpha Cat

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    Hi Chikitties, nice to meet you! If I am reading this right, your cat vomits raw but she eats canned food alright? What is the canned food you are feeding and how long have you fed it exclusively to her for?

    Has your vet examined your cat since she started vomiting? If not, you should make an appointment to have her checked out. There are a lot of things that can cause vomiting, from food intolerances and hairballs to renal failure and cancer. It is recommended that senior cats go in twice a year for examinations.
     
    CHIKITTIES purraised this.

  4. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Hi Wile,

    Thank you very much for your reply!

    • She met Vet on 1/28. Previous one was in 6/2018.
    • She did not vomit canned at all. Raw few times (7 times to be exact) - but between 1/18 til last Friday, she was eating Chicken, Turkey and Rabbit raw along with Canned and no vomit
    • Canned food she is eating now are - Miko Chicken, Chicken and Turkey (her current favorite), Tiki Koolina luau, Tiki after dark Chicken and Quail egg, Raws Turkey, Raws Duck. Tried Raws shredded type and liked, Dr. Elsey Turkey and was OK (she is not a pate fun). Tried Raws Rabbit this morning and did not like, spit.
    I agree if this does not improve I should plan another vet visit.

    I think I should add medical history - or no history - she's been super healthy all her life. Only issue she had were puffy eyes few times, which healed in few days... so maybe I am over reacting? Her sister is same way, she needed anal grand expressed once about 2 years ago, but other than that no real medical issue except chin acne ..
     
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  5. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    Hi!
    I personally think the food transitions were the trigger here, but that doesn't mean much when you're faced with commercial foods that, and I totally agree, have questionable ingredients.

    This may help a bit. The one item they don't "call out" is Menadione/synthetic vitamin k;

    Pet Food Guide

    I'm with @Wile, a visual check from a vet with a cat that's throwing up fairly regularly doesn't quite seem thorough enough.

    If I may ask, what did you mean by "mama cat is vegetarian"?
     
    Wile and CHIKITTIES purraised this.

  6. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Hi Furballsmom,

    Thank you very much for your reply!

    If she vomit canned and do well with raw, yes I would think she ate more canned food while I was away, and that was it. But it seems opposite, she does well on canned but vomit raw? Still, I agree eating different food from usual may triggered this issue. Plus different eating schedule.

    I was planning another full blood panel testing, but Vet did not see needs ... maybe I should've insist :doh:

    Sorry for "mama cat" talk - we are 1 person 2 cat household, and I always call myself "mama cat":p
     
    Furballsmom and 1 bruce 1 purraised this.

  7. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Baby Girl puked rabbit when she was a kitten, but as an adult now she's fine with it. :stars:
    Are the grinds you buy the whole ground animal or just parts?
    If she's thrown up rabbit and pork, that might be a clue if she's OK with all kinds of poultry. Has she ever had beef?
     

  8. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    On one hand, it's good that your vet isn't suggesting a bunch of pointless crap that isn't necessary, but if you're worried and want testing, they should help you out and do as you ask.

    Good to know you, Mama Cat. :wave3: I'm known as the Big Doofus in this household :crazy:
     
    Furballsmom, CHIKITTIES and LTS3 purraised this.

  9. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Hi 1 bruce 1,

    Thank you very much for your reply! HT grind I buy is "with bone", but no hair included. I initially started rabbit with fur, but after a while kitties (both) started to vomit, so switched to no fur grind. When I make food I tend to mix up protein, usually use Chicken thigh chunk or Turkey chunk with bone in grind. So I am not sure if this is protein issue or not ... I think when she ate all Chicken raw, she was fine. And as you can see, her canned rotation is Chicken heavy, which I don't like so much, but so far I am not finding non-pate low carb food which is not Chicken, nor fish! :sigh:

    Oh beef, no. I only tried freeze dried beef treat once, and neither of them even sniffed it. If this is protein issue I think we have to venture out whole red meat ...
     
    Furballsmom and 1 bruce 1 purraised this.

  10. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    You're very welcome, @CHIKITTIES . I don't know if it's something to consider but moving away from red meat might be a way to get more answers.
    One of our boys can't handle much red meat at all, a little here or there is fine but any meal of all beef, all bison, all elk, and he's puking his guts out. He's not a sickly cat, either. He's built like a linebacker and has the mouth of a sailor :thumbsup:
    If she can handle chicken turkey and duck, I wouldn't worry. How is she with organ meat?
     
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  11. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    I thought that was quite nice of Vet. Usually doctors (both people doc and animal doc) love to run testing! I respect Vets and Docs have good intention trying to help sick animals and people, but prefer not loading their/our body with medicines ... as long as there are alternatives, nothing super serious.

    I spend more time with kitties than other human beings (work from home), definitely becoming more and more cat these days :catman:
     
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  12. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    :p .:lovecat2:
     
    1 bruce 1 purraised this.

  13. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    No need to worry about being more cat, until you find yourself responding to people asking you a question with a purr or a hiss :flail:
    You might just tell the vet your concerned and would feel better if you knew the blood work was clean. Sometimes I think good vets are scared to suggest this because people blast them all over the place for being "greedy" so they're probably stuck between a rock and hard place.
     
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  14. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    My questions are a little different, CHIKITTIES:
    -How long after food were the barfs on 1/7, 1/8 and 2/9?
    -Was the food in those barfs at all digested or was it just regurgitated?
    -How often do you feed your cats?
    -Has the vomiting been a known barfer for long? Or is this something new?
    -What is your cat's name? ;)

    I ask these questions because Wile raises some very good points about various things that can make cats vomit. One of our cats, Edwina, will barf at the drop of a hat so our two kitties have a few things in common. Edwina's vomiting repertoire includes:
    -The "scarf and barf" is her favorite: she eats certain canned foods too fast and then they come right back up, usually projectile-style.
    -She sometimes yacks up small amounts of fur, either tiny hair balls or a sort of thin blanket of fur. Keeping her well-brushed minimizes this problem (I suspect her of having hair gastritis: scroll all the way down on this page.)
    -And then there's the bile vomit, often caused by acid in a hungry stomach. It can help to feed a cat a lot of small meals -- we feed five a day, from early morning until bedtime (when it's good to fed something caloric) and it keeps those at a minimum. To be fair, we never see these come up so these may be her sister's!
    -Finally, there's the food sensitivity problem: potato makes Edwina vomit, too. No potato here.

    Some kinds of cats -- like our two lovely little Siamese mixes -- are just more prone to digestive issues. I'm glad our vet told us the first time she saw them! Alas, they've proved her right over and over again. The good news is that with all those small meals, spreading Edwina's food out on the plate so she can't inhale it, keeping her brushed, avoiding potato and other carbs, and feeding a raw/homemade/canned diet, we can generally keep the vomiting at a minimum. Apparently constipation (something our other cat has had difficulty with recently) can cause vomiting, too, and of a lot of raw foods have bone and it can be hard to spot constipation in raw-fed cats because they don't poop very much or often even if they're not constipated!

    And since I now see that you're like me and work at home, I'll be happy to tell you about our meal plan schedule, if you like! :D It's frustrating when a cat barfs, particularly because the reasons can be pretty serious, though they're frequently caused by things that are easy to fix.
     
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  15. Wile

    Wile Opener of cans Alpha Cat

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    I think @Furballsmom and @1-bruce-1 have given you some good advice. While another vet visit might be warranted, it doesn't hurt to test things a bit yourself by simplifying her diet. Maybe cut out anything except poultry for a few weeks and see if the :barf:stops. It could just be that the :bunny: and pork don't agree with her. A lot of cats with food sensitivities also don't respond well to a lot of variety in their diet, so the constant food switches can aggravate things.
    :2cents:

    Like @lisahe, one of my cats vomits bile in the early morning when he anticipates a meal. I've gotten into the habit of leaving out dry food all the time since I can't feed many small wet food meals a day. It seems to have stopped the bile vomit. Another thing you might want to try?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  16. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Our cat with some constipation problems has vomited a lot of puke when he's all backed up. This is an excellent point.
    (Another thing to consider is a cat with diarrhea often appears constipated because they strain and nothing happens, except for little dribbles of watery poop..if you're eating, my apologies. So shoving Miralax down them can make it worse if you don't know what you're seeing. I learned the hard way :barfgreen: Take it from me, knowing the difference can be tricky but it's worth it!)
    What is the bone content that you're feeding, @CHIKITTIES, approximately? Most raw feeders go for 10% bone but cats sometimes require much less to keep things, ah..."moving" right along. :wink:
     
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  17. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yes, Ireland definitely needs much less than 10% and that's despite us rehydrating her freeze-dried foods with a very good dose of water!

    What @Wile mentions about leaving some sort of food out is a great idea.

    There are so many things that can make a cat vomit. And I didn't even get to dust bunnies in that long post! :lol:
     
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  18. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    We have had a few dogs that need more than 10% and a few that need way less, more like 5%.
    One of our boys is a short haired cat with a really thick coat and if he isn't brushed out he starts yanking out clumps of hair. Leave this go on for a day or so and I am gifted with the opportunity to step in a hairball in my bare feet first thing in the morning.
     
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  19. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019

    Hi LisaHe,

    Thank you very much for your reply!

    On your questions
    • Her "food vomit" were 1-2 hours after meal, semi-digested food came out. Last time when that had happened (on 2/9), I noticed she was nauseous - because of lip smacking. Most of the time when food comes out, she nibbles on grass, then comes to me saying "hey, my stomach is empty! I need food!"
    • Her bile vomit occurring in middle of night while sleeping. I've been a bit "off-guard" so did not record what exact time she ate before 2/9 bile puke... maybe she digested her last meal so quickly and had empty stomach?
    • They usually eat 4 times a day, 6 hours apart
    • Nowadays their eating schedule is bit off - they ate 5 times today already!
    Having puke incident for long time is something new. In the past there was occasion she puked raw, ate canned, then went back to raw again. That happened - to be exact (checking my "catitude" diary) - 5/10-11/2017.

    Thanks for sharing about "hair gastritis"! As I wrote they reacted rabbit fur in the past (and mouse too, we tried grind mouse few times ... thought it was shame of them born as cat but not tasting mouse in their entire life ;)), maybe she is becoming more sensitive to hair?

    I am thinking ... was it you? I've read on other thread that some kitties having difficulty handling bone in raw diet when they get older. One thing I am thinking to try is make food without bone but with eggshell, to see if that makes any difference.

    Lastly - meet Pila and Saf Hunter! (Pila is the one who is having issue now)
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. CHIKITTIES

    CHIKITTIES Thread Starter TCS Member Adult Cat

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    Feb 11, 2019
    I am afraid the day is getting closer - start purring and hissing toward human :flail:

    Thanks again for all your advice, I think I will take DEEP breath, continue with canned and bird raw for now (she is not really a fun of duck but ...), continue my experiment with bone broth (oh boy, it was smelly cooking meat!!) and goat milk (not started yet), see what will happen.
     
    Furballsmom and 1 bruce 1 purraised this.

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