Raw/homemade Fed Cats: Weight, Eating Patterns, Anxiety, Veterinary Misinformation

[cat7bird]

Thanks, Sophie. Linus's attitude about food doesn't actually bother me -- it's more my vet's reaction that there must be something wrong for him to be lean (and the fact that vomiting is not nil) that prompted me to stress. I sort of anticipated it, and do better with more laid back healthcare professionals, and she's a bit... not laid back. There isn't a better fit that I've found (not for lack of trying, I could go on another whole tangent about this). I upped his food from closer to 3% to try to fatten him up, and I do use backup foods that both cats like (some canned, and RadCat, Linus's favorite favorite). Honest Kitchen to me is just the most ideal type of food to function as a backup. I guess it does irk me a bit that he doesn't like it. You know, I think I do have my own issues with him being a bit finicky, and I need to get over that. Before Linus and Mouse I adopted an older cat, with a history of fatty liver disease, and he developed severe health complications within a year. According to vets this was the result of the all-kibble diet he was on throughout his life. I did, with difficulty, eventually manage to get him to eat wet food (basically by pleading with him that it was life-or-death) and this extended his life for a bit, but he died quite prematurely, to my mind. I also cared for a kitten who refused food, and turned out to be sick with lymphoma. I guess after going through the food refusal, and doing the syringe-feeding, sub-q fluids thing, and then watching my cat die -- I think I do feel a bit frustrated, and panicky that Linus doesn't always readily eat. I was also under the misapprehension that exposing them, from kittenhood, to a species appropriate diet, with a variety of high quality, raw meats, as well as a bunch of different commercial foods -- could not lead to a finicky cat, and that's just not the case (actually, Linus so digs the variety, that he will not eat the same meal more than 2X in a row, even if he likes it). Anyway, thanks for prompting me to think about this.

I like your other suggestions as well. I used to feed them in different rooms in my old apartment, but in my current place, the only interior door is the one to the bedroom (oh, nyc), and it's wonky and won't close, so I can't even confine anyone without intensely supervising, but we're getting the door fixed soon (of course I do have one other door to the bathroom, but I didn't consider it, because eating). I thought they had adjusted okay to eating without being totally separated, which they definitely keyed me into needing at a young age. They are only overtly aggressive/defensive when whole prey is involved, but it's totally possible that Linus still can't relax knowing that Mouse will come barreling over as soon as he's done with his plate. I do stop him, but just Mouse's presence in this arena may still be anxiety provoking for Linus, of course.

The vet didn't think it could be parasites, I don't know how she could have ruled that out. Maybe I should just do a DE or raw pumpkin seed de-worming.

 

[sophie1]

I get it about the feeding anxiety, I really do! Charlie had surgery for intestinal obstruction from a toy when he was 6 months old, and to this day whenever I see him eating I always feel an internal sigh of relief. Free feeding raw or canned food works well for him as he clearly prefers to eat in solitude, and slowly. I've had to learn to trust that he'll eat what he needs. Linus is doing the same!

Just feeding Mouse and Linus out of line of sight may be enough. Different levels can work too. Sometimes when I give my cats treats, Chai gets his on top of the refrigerator so that Charlie can eat his in peace, on the floor.

 

[cat7bird]

sophie1 Precisely. You're right, I need to trust that Linus will eat what he needs (and ultimately I do). I haven't played around recently with feeding them in different rooms or levels, unless it's whole prey (for which different rooms is essential) but things have shifted.

To update, Linus is eating reliably and definitely gaining weight, and there has been no vomit and few hairballs. I even re-introduced red meat (goat) and there were no problems. I'm convinced it was the fish oil, and for whatever reason, Mouse just wasn't sensitive to it. Linus is a small cat, but it seems the vet did pick up that something was off about his build. I knew she was on the wrong track with the protein allergy stuff, but she was right about nutrient absorption, and that he isn't just skinny like I had thought -- the difference is subtle, but he's thickened up and looks amazing (and I feel a small increase in my faith in vets, which I so appreciate).

There are some cat dynamics going on that are apparent in their eating behaviors, but they seem to shift roles (with everything), so it's not necessarily Linus who is worried about Mouse swiping his food, it could be either of them in either role, depending on the day. More often then not, they just eat without shenanigans, and they seem generally okay with eating on opposite ends of the room, but at times either of them may experience anxiety about it. So maybe it's worth a bigger separation. I did this in my old apartment when they were younger and couldn't eat together (I tried feeding them on the cat shelves, too, but neither like to eat above ground, for whatever reason -- they'll jump down to the floor with any treats, to eat them, and they even drag their food off their plates to eat it... I got them plates with no lip that are essentially flat, causing me to drip meat-juice-blood everywhere, but they still do this).

Anyway, things are going really well overall. Mouse also gained a bit of weight, and I'm adjusting (lowering) their daily intake to be closer to the 2-3% mark, and planning to adjust their rotation a bit so they will experience more variety, which I think Linus will appreciate.

 

[valentine319]

My experience with vets has been well halfway decent if you know you're managing things yourself. Issues I have had? Before my male cat died the one vet said he was happy he lost weight. He was a ragdoll and supposed to weigh 25 lbs and was down to 12.5 lbs. I mentioned the issues. They only do bloodwork with issues. His bloodwork came back fine so they ignored it. I changed to a different person at the vet and she agreed he had IBD. He was too old to do a stomach biopsy since they though it had progressed into cancer.

The fish oil you ordered is a good fish oil. Are you storing it in the fridge. Heat can make them go rancid fast. I know you've switched to pills be sure they are a good brand.

Don't forget you might want to pull one meal if the hairball issues return(just add the extra into meals). I can't remember where i saw it but the cat needs time to get hungry so their digestive track works correctly. If you have problems in the future it might be something to consider.

I guess I wouldn't worry if kitties are eating healthy and acting healthy.

 

[cat7bird]

Your vet story is pretty horrifying, sorry about your cat Before my cat died, I had triumphantly gotten him to eat wet food (honest kitchen grace turkey) after a lifetime of kibble that was killing him, and his glucose stabilized. Because we thought he might have FIP, and the conventional vet I was using said whatever it was, there was no way for him to recover, research led me a holistic vet who did phone consultations and came to our area once a month (seriously, she didn't even see him). The first time we spoke, it was like a last ditch effort because he wasn't eating, he had fluid in his abdomen (which I had to alert the other vet to since I was alarmed he'd gained weight from not eating for weeks), and I was told he would die in a matter of weeks no matter what. However, by the second phone consult I had gotten him to eat and his energy and glucose had improved. I think he was actually doing well and eating the new food for months, and I was only having the consult in response to a promotional offer (maybe don't use vets who have promotional offers). I shared the good news, and she basically didn't get past the dehydrated food, said dehydrated foods are just like kibble, and that I would have to turn it into a soup with water for it to be appropriately hydrated, which I told her was precisely what I did with it. She said I had to switch him to raw and recommended I start just sharing a little bit of ground meat from the grocery store, which is not where I buy my meat, and I knew was not okay. She also told me to give him veggies and said that everything that is healthy for us is healthy for a cat, which I knew to be ludicrous. Suffice it to say that I never spoke to her again, and I don't think I'd work with anyone who doesn't see my cat again, certainly not if they're sick. Not only was her feeding advice wrong and dangerous to even a healthy animal, but by not seeing him, she missed the fact that this was a very sick, stressed cat I was trying to keep alive, and she was going through the motions of the diet she pushes for all her clients (on top of which, involved unsafe practices). I didn't take her advice to give him ground beef from the grocery store (wtf) but she did sufficiently freak me out so I started him on raw from hare-today, and I think this was pretty traumatic for him and definitely contributed stress which possibly hastened his exit. He consented to the switch, but he had been through an ordeal, both medically, and everything in his life, including his food, had already changed (it was only a year after I adopted him at age 12 that this happened), and I'm angry at her, and at myself for listening. I won't use vets who practice with homeopathy anymore, but after this I saw a different one, who I was able to bring my cat in to see (still only limited office hours in my area) and she said it doesn't matter what I feed him and that he was dying of a broken heart (closer, but also wrong, because it actually did matter to his glucose and his organ systems etc). Having educated myself I am under no illusion that homeopathic medicines are efficacious, and I won't use vets who practice with them, so now I'm stuck with the Western vets, and the host of other issues that go along with that side of things (just as a tidbit, I saw a conventional vet who failed to diagnose mites as the cause for my kittens' ear infections, even though she found dead mites in the high-tech ear exam I opted for). And in case you're wondering, both of the homeopathic vets were legitimate vets and appropriately credentialed etc. Their practices were alternative, though, not like conventional vets who dabble in some holistic interventions, and though I shared some core beliefs, at least with the second one, they both practiced almost entirely with homeopathy, which doesn't work for me. My current vet is the best I've found, communication issues not withstanding (our ideologies and personalities don't really match, but she's competent, and did a great job with their neuters). A women from the rescue org recommended another vet who does house calls who I'd like to try, but can't really afford. I would also love to find a vet who incorporates herbal medicine in their practice. /end rant/

As for the fish oil, yes, I stored it in the fridge. I just held onto it too long. I actually went back to that Iceland Pure brand. I bought the smallest bottle out of anxiety, which makes no sense economically, but by my calculations, the 33oz bottle size should last about 3.5 months. Before I was using the pump to dose each portion, and it was not dosing correctly and I ended up with this never-ending bottle (I had it over twice as long and it wasn't empty yet). If I measure it out by ounce or TBSP, we should go through it, as we have with this small bottle. I'm sensitized to the issue now, so I can pay attention to any issues Linus expresses as it ages, should it go bad before we finish it. Food-making became really unpleasant emptying the capsules, and it's already not my favorite pastime.

I'm in the process of overhauling our food system a bit, but I still plan to give 3 meals. I appreciate the tip about making sure they are hungry between meals -- I think I knew that, but it wasn't on my radar as far as the hairballs. It certainly seems like they get hungry between meals. Now I am feeding them about 1.5-2 ounces (give-or-take) every 8 hours (give-or-take). From the advice of @orange&white I went back to putting their supplements into a slurry, adding egg yolks for motility, and I'm measuring their fish oil for the batch into there, instead of pumping it imprecisely onto each serving