Raw feeding IBD cat

[frosti]

Hi everyone and greetings from Norway!! 

My cat has been sick since April. It started out with diarreha and womiting, what look liked blank fluid. After a trip to the vet I got the devestating news that he had almost none white bloodcells and his liver had suffered hard. They thought it was possibly feline panleukopenia and recommended me to let him go to sleep. After much talking, they agreed to set him on antibiotics and see if he had a chance of recovering. He made it through, the womiting stopped, but the diarreha continued and he has been pooping all around the house... At the next stop to the vet he tested negative on a "pervo test", so they didnt think he had panleukopenia after all. Then they thouht it might be autoimmune hemalytic anemia and they put him on cortisone. Then on the next control they stated that he probably could have a inflamatory bowel disease and he went on antibiotics again + ate only Royal Canin ID dry food against diarreha. After a few days he got better and stopped pooping around the house, and I got my hope up that he would recover…But once the antibiotics was finished, he started with the diarreha again Now he is on antibiotics for 2 weeks again, but if he doesnt get better now, the vets has told me the best thing to do is to put him to sleep So I have searched the web for EVERYTHING and then I discovered this page!

I am so happy for those of you that the raw food diet has worked for!!! I have now tried for 1 day to give my cat only raw chicken and porkfilets, and he loves it! But then again he has started pooping only fluid/diarreha. For how long should I keep on with the raw diet before I can expect to see some results? Of course, its not 100 % sure that my cat has IBD, but I think this probably is it. He has all the symptoms of it, as far as I know... 

Sorry for my very long reply here, I hope that some of you can give me some advice. I would be so thankful

Thank you very much!!

 

[auntie crazy]

I am so sorry to hear about your difficulties. And God bless you for everything you're doing to help your kitty!!

Most folks see results within just a day or two, but IBD kitties need to be transitioned to raw more slowly and carefully than healthier cats. If I were you, I would feed only one meat right now, try just the pork (since he's unlikely to have been exposed to it before, it's a fairly safe bet he doesn't have any sensitivities built up to it). And, if you can, make sure the meat doesn't have any flavorings whatever (sodium levels shouldn't exceed 100mg per serving).
 

There are several folks here who have successfully transitioned IBD kitties onto raw... and they will be along to help you with more specific details very soon.

Welcome to TCS, Frosti! You're in good hands, here.

AC

 

[carolina]

Hi Frosti


I am so sorry you are going through this....
Please please don't give up hope - there is Hope! If your vet doesn't believe so, the first advice I have for you, is to change vets, if you can.... as you will need support in this battle, and your vet seems to be a "little" shortsighted, and he seems to not be willing to work with you - apparently he has given up...
Please, please hang in there - it can get better :nod:

Ok, aside from the white blood cells, and the liver issues in the beginning, I have a cat who was a pretty similar case to yours, in regards to a lost hope IBD case, and raw completely changed his life.
We tried it all - all antibiotics, steroids, supplements, different diets, prescriptions and non-prescription everything you can think of, we tried - nothing worked.
Bugsy was sickish since the first day he came to me, but the longest and worst stretch was a diarrhea that lasted 14 months. Daily. Non-stop, no matter what.
So many treatments were tried, so many drugs, that his liver started suffering - that's when we started running out of options.
We had to stop all treatments, including for his stomatitis, and continue only with natural supplements and a hypo-allergenic diet. That didn't work - his weight went up, and his diarrhea continued.
He had an exploratory surgery scheduled, at that point, we were past IBD, looking for other causes, trying desperately to find a solution.... Thing is, no matter what I found, I would not be able to treat him because of his liver.....
So.... I made an "executive decision" to give raw a try a a last resort before the surgery.

Lo and behold, it worked - FAST.
Because Bugsy was very sensitive, had IBD and was the type of cat that if anything could possibly go wrong it would, things had to be done slowly.
Bugsy ate some wet - I first took the kibbles off, and put him on wet only - that was I think the first day.
Then, I added 1tsp of raw. Yep - one tsp. Each meal for that day, he got his wet food, with that tsp of raw.
Next day, I added another tsp of raw, and took one of wet.....
You see the pattern? Slowly increasing the raw, while decreasing the wet - just like you transition one kibble to another.
His transition took one week.
**** Pick one meat *****
If you start with chicken, that entire week you will transition him to chicken. Then when he is eating 100% chicken, you can start adding another meat - say pork: Day 1 of that transition 75% chicken and 25% pork for each meal. Day 2 50/50, day 3 25% chicken, 75% pork, day 4 100% pork.
Watch for diarrhea and vomiting - if kitty has diarrhea, slow down and stay at that level for longer.... Move at the kitty's pace - the litter box will guide you.

Put the kitty on a good probiotic - you can get it in any health food store, or pharmacy.... Look for 10 billion CFU. You open the capsule and sprinkle it over the food - this is essential.....

Also - raw feeding needs to be balanced.... It doesn't mean feeding muscle meat only - there is much more to it than that.

The first, and the most important step, you already got - he loves it - you are WAY ahead of the game
Then you need to make sure he gets the proper amount of calcium and organs, especially liver.
Do you have commercial raw available in there?
If not, it's alright - I feed meats right from the supermarket :nod:
Because of IBD, I do not feed bones - I prefer to supplement Calcium, I use eggshell powder as a source of Ca. You can easily make it at home. The it takes 1/32tsp to balance 1 oz of meat - I have tiny measuring kitchen spoons I use for that; my cats eat 1.6oz per meal, 3 meals a day.

For liver, you can feed whatever liver is available to you, chicken, duck, turkey, pork, beef...... Some of my cats will throw up and some of my cats don't like it, so I feed freeze-dry treats - the treats you give for training dogs.
You can give the liver over the week, doesn't need to be every day; 5% of the diet is liver.
then 5% of the diet is another secreting organ - i.e. kidney, pancreas, spleen, etc.

I know, there is a LOT of information...... A lot of information can be found here http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread
More information is here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241623/raw-transition-resources-thread

For now, take one step at a time...... Transition first as you learn about balancing - you have some time, don't worry about knowing everything and doing everything right immediately.
I would first pick one meat, and stick to it. If the kitty eats some wet, ditch the kibbles and start adding the meat slowly until you have it all on raw.
If not, do it with kibbles.
Immediately, put him on a probiotic - this is essential.
do 3 meals a day - divided in equal amounts. How much does he weigh?

And hang in there..... :cross: this will get better

 

[frosti]

Hi AC and Caroline!!

Thank you so very much for your reply and all advices! I really, really appreciate it and especially your very long and accurate directions Caroline 

I am so happy that the raw food diet helped you and Bugsy! Thats just wonderful 

 

 

 

 Is he all well now?

I have been so concerned this summer, because I didnt know what to do with my cat, Sito, which is his name. Because it seemed like I had tried everything and nothing helped. And he has become so thin. When I was at the vet 1 month ago, he weighed 2,8 kg ( I think that is 17.6 lbs?) and he is almost 2 years old.

Now he has been eating raw chicken, which he loves, in addition to a little bit from his "Hills prescription Diet" for cats with diarreha. It says that this food "has an increased level of electrolytes, highly digestible ingredients and a low level of fat". During the last month he has been eating only this food and reacted very positive to it and has gotten better from the diarreha. He still has diarreha, but is not pooping uncontrolled all around the house. (But he is also on antibiotics for another week) 

I have been feeding him raw chicken (and a small amount of pork, only on friday) every day now and he has been eating it with a great appetite. But now he has also been pooping only fluidly. 

I will now try your advice Caroline, divide the chicken in to 3 equal meals, and give him throughout the day. And I will go to the pharmacy tomorrow and by probiotics, for sure. 
I am not sure what a "commercial raw" is? 

Also one question, should he have access to food at night?

Thank you again for all your help!! 

 

 

  

 

[carolina]

Bugsy has been 100% better, without any Ibd syptmoms since his first day of 100% on raw. That was day 8 of his introduction.
By commercial raw, I mean, just that, pre made commercially prepare raw food for pets; do you have that available there?
I would not give food during the night, but you have to feed enough during the day.....
2.8kg is not 17lbs.... Is 6.18lbs.... Is that how much he weights?
How much is his health weight?

 

[frosti]

Thats great!! I hope my cat will feel better soon too  

I just used an online converter for the kilos to lbs, hehe. That one was probably no good 

 Tried another one now, and you are absolutely correct! It´s about 6,6 lbs.
I think the wet said he should be at least 4 kilos … that is, more closely to 9 lbs I think.

Did you experience tangles in the fur of your Bugsy? This is a long haired cat and he has gotten so many tangles lately, impossible to comb out. 
I did cut some of them off, but maybe I shouldnt have done that 

 

[carolina]

Frosti, please do all the reading though.... you will have to balance that food :nod:
Raw feeding is not feeding just chicken breast, chicken legs.... There is much, much more to it.... A cat will get pretty sick if you do that long term, ok?
You have to do it correctly - there is much to be learned.
You can do it during transition - a week or two, but I can't say enough, get going on reading, and get ready to know about balancing your food correctly, alright?

You can feed chunks of meat, or ground - there are recipes, we will help you, but read the links I sent you


P.S. Hope is getting the mats :frusty: I am taking her to the groomers for a shave next week, as she doesn't let me groom her for anything..... The other two are long hair two, but Ragdolls, and their coats don't mat, so that's good :nod: Hope doesn't let me cut her tangles either..... Her belly is getting pretty awful

 

[frosti]

Yes, thank you very much Caroline. I will read through all the links you sent me, I am at it now

Sorry for the stupid question, but what is "Ground"? Is that some kind of meat?
I live in a small village, so I just hope that I will get hold of everything for feeding my cat balanced meals. 
We dont have anyone how have pre made commercialy prepared raw food for pets, I forgot to answer that one before. 

I have already read through some of the links, and if I have understood correct I should give hime different types of meat, meat including bones, organ meats 

in addition to probiotics and also fatty acids? 

I think I can only get hold of the following meat here: chicken, turkey, lamb, beef and then also fish of course. 
And they also sell liver. So I hope I will do everything correctly  

By the way, I actually can feel that he has gained weight since starting with the raw 2 days ago 

 

Thank you  

 

[whollycat]

As Carolina said, the meat must be balanced with a calcium source if fed long-term. The reason being is that meat is high in phosphorus and needs calcium to balance this imbalance (when not feeding ground bones). Also, you might need a fiber source in the raw food, but someone much more versed in IBD kitties can weigh in on that.

Also, here's a site from a fellow member here at TCS, Lisa, IBDkitties.net that you might find useful too, as it has oodles of information on IBD and kitties. Another site to check out is Holisticat's IBD page.

So glad you found TCS! Welcome!

 

[carolina]

Frosti, ground meat is meat that has been passed by a grinder - just like hamburger meat - do not feed ground meat bought already ground from the supermarket though - if you want to feed ground, you want to grind it at home, with a meat grinder at your place :nod:

You are correct on the meat, organs and bone - although I don't feed bones, I supplement with eggshells instead - there are some theories that it is more easily digestible for IBD kitties.

For fatty acids, you give fish oil - I give Krill oil. These are the ones we buy for our own use too - punch a hole on the gel cap, and sprinkle on the top of their food.....

I do not give any fiber for Bugsy - not necessary here.

I am pressed on time, But I will tell someone to pop in with instructions on the eggshells - you can make it easily at home - cheap too

 

[auntie crazy]

Eggshell powder has it's place, Frosti, but if your cats can and will eat bone-in meals, it's best to let them do so. Bones contain many nutrients beyond just calcium, and crunching through them supports better oral health and (this is just theory, but I believe it's an accurate hypothesis) a more mentally satisfying meal. They really have to "work" to eat.

Here's the eggshell powder directions: Rinse well with plain water and peel the membranes off. Dry by setting out overnight or oven baking for 30 minutes (must be completely dried to avoid potential mold issues). Grind or crush into powder with coffee bean grinder, mortar and pestle, or food processor (all new or very thoroughly cleaned first). Sprinkle very lightly over cat's food at 1/2 teaspoon per pound of plain raw meat.

Best regards!

AC

 

[ldg]

Eggshell powder has it's place, Frosti, but if your cats can and will eat bone-in meals, it's best to let them do so. Bones contain many nutrients beyond just calcium, and crunching through them supports better oral health and (this is just theory, but I believe it's an accurate hypothesis) a more mentally satisfying meal. They really have to "work" to eat.

Yes, fresh bone ultimately is best for kitties. But as Frosti's Sito has what appears to be a severe case of diarrhea and suspected IBD, it might be best, at least during the initial transition, to ensure Sito gets proper calcium using the eggshell powder.

The eggshell powder is easy to make, and easy to properly measure and ensure the correct amount of calcium is being given with the meat. With bones you have to do more guesswork - which is complicated by the existing diarrhea.

I would worry about introducing bones later, and for now, I'd just ensure Sito gets the proper amount of calcium with his meat so the digestion problems aren't further potentially exacerbated by an improper balance with the meat. When SIto's stable on raw :cross: , then I think it would be a better time to introduce bones.

 

[frosti]

AC, Carolina and LDG, thanks for all your replys and messages! I didnt see them before now, for some reason I didnt get an email notification for these 

Thats why I didnt answer before now, just so that you know that  

Now I know what ground meat is, hehe Thanks for clearing that up Carolina  

Thank you very much for the instructions on egg shells AC!! I appreciate all your instructions, you are all so helpful  

Sito has now been on raw since friday, but is still pooping fluently I hope to see some improvment soon! I am about to make the eggshell powder now.
Thank you once again for the explanation  

Have a wonderful day/evening all of you

Many greetings from Norway!!! 

 

 

[ldg]

Yes, meat by itself can cause diarrhea. It needs to be balanced with the calcium! It also needs to be balanced with some organs.

 

[frosti]

Hi again One quick question. Is there an alternativ to the eggshell powder? What else can I give my cat which will provide the calcium he needs? 
Milk and youghurt naturelle? But if my cat refuse to drink/eat this, what should I do then?

Sito has been on raw since more than a week now, but I havent gotten him to eat any calcium yet, and he has still got fluently poop  

Thank you very much for your answer  

 

[carolina]

What is your reservation with eggshell powder? Aside from bones, it is one of the most easily digestible forms of calcium you can give him.
The answer is no, yoghurt or milk will not do it. There are other forms of calcium; you can feed bones of course, but there are some controversies when it comes to Ibd cats, and other supplements too. Eggshells is definitely the most easily available to you.
He MUST have calcium. And yes, he will continue having diarrhea until he gets the proper amount of calcium.
A raw diet must be balanced, otherwise it can be harmful, do be careful.... You can feed plain muscle meat for a very little time, but as we said, you need to balance that diet properly to avoid nutrient imbalances on your boy. Lack of calcium is not a place you want to be at.

 

[frosti]

Thank you for your fast reply! You see, I have a very picky little cat here. But I will keep trying with the eggshellpowder. Is it possible to mix it with some water and give it to him in his mouth with a syringe instead of spreading it over the food? ( I have some syringes left over after his antibioticstreatment). 

 

[carolina]

How much eggshell are you putting on the food? I have a feeling you are putting too much.... I have picky cats too.... But the amount is soooo little, they don't even notice it! You only need 1/32 tsp per oz of food.... thats a tiny, tiny amount. Is that what you are giving?
Also, are you grinding it into a fine powder?

 

[frosti]

You are probably right, I should sprinkle only very little over his food. I really hope he will react to the diet soon. Today he had an "accident" tre places on my white carpet and many other places in the appartment. But its not his fault, sometimes its not enough time for him to get to the litterbox This must also be so awful for the cat(s). I can only imagine. I also read about some cases where the owner told that their cats have had IBD for more than a year and they reacted positive to the raw diet at once. So I will keep my fingers crossed and hope the raw diet will work for my little loved one too 

 

[carolina]

You really want to get some measuring spoons for that.... the tiny ones you use for baking and such.... do you think you can get those there? You want to make sure you give the correct amount of Calcium.

Also - have you tested your little one specifically for Giardia and t.foetus? These are specific tests - not regular fecal tests - you need to request.... Have you done that? T. foetus is not done routinelly, and the fecal sample needs to be fresh, so usually taken at the vet's office. This is never tested on a regular exam - very specific test, but in cases of persistent diarrhea such as this, you really should consider doing it..... IMHO

http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/tritrichomonas