Raw: Can A 15 Week Old Kitten Eat Too Much? What About Nutritional Balance?

[katfisk]

Hi all,

I have an almost 15-week-old kitten whose breeder weaned him onto a high-protein kibble. I transitioned him from kibble to canned and now onto raw. I leave out his kibble at all times and occasionally offer canned, but he's been refusing anything but raw meat for the past 7 days as I explore what he'll eat (in order of preference: rabbit > beef > chicken > turkey > mouse). I've started mixing his less-favorite meat with his preferred meats to encourage variety, but have yet to venture into addition nutritional supplements to his food or making sure it's 80 protein/10 organ/10 bone. (I will, I was just currently planning on testing out his meat preferences while also feeding him his old food to make sure he would be getting all the trace nutrients he needs, but he had other plans!)

Here's the thing: he's suddenly a bottomless pit. He used to pick at his kibble and had a reasonable appetite with the canned, but he eats the raw until his belly is bulging and then asks for more. I've heard the saying "you can't feed a kitten too much", and he is supposed to grow into a pretty big cat (he's a Ragamuffin, and I hear his dad was "big", though I never asked about his weight), but I'm a little concerned his voracious appetite is an indication that he's either bored or isn't getting the nutrition he needs. But it's only been 7 days, so I may be overthinking things!

Any insight you have would be appreciated.

 

[LTS3]

15 week old kittens are bottomless eating machines so don't worry if your kitten eats a ton

Is your kitten mainly eat plain raw meat and not much of the dry? You might want to look into using a pre-mix such as EZComplete so your kitten is getting all the necessary vitamins and minerals.

I think some people discourage feeding both raw and dry food. Something about dry food taking longer to digest and might cause a back up in the digestive tract?

It's good to offer a variety of meats Rotate through them as needed so your kitten doesn't get bored.

 

[JoyM]

I’m not a breeder but I do foster and I must agree, kittens are bottomless pits! They don’t really eat out of boredom (they will FIND ways to amuse themselves), they are just always hungry. I have never limited food for a growing kitten. They grow so quickly that they need everything they take in.
Definitely, make sure to add the nutritional boosters to the raw food diet and I’m sure you know to cook the meat (you seem to know how the raw food diet works). On the off chance you haven’t been cooking the meat, you might want to do a vet visit (not an emergency but soon) because it could be a sign of internal paricites.
It’s best to have scheduled feedings but at this age, it’s not detrimental to allow them access to food constantly. By a year though, it is better for them.

 

[katfisk]

15 week old kittens are bottomless eating machines so don't worry if your kitten eats a ton

Is your kitten mainly eat plain raw meat and not much of the dry? You might want to look into using a pre-mix such as EZComplete so your kitten is getting all the necessary vitamins and minerals.

I think some people discourage feeding both raw and dry food. Something about dry food taking longer to digest and might cause a back up in the digestive tract?

It's good to offer a variety of meats Rotate through them as needed so your kitten doesn't get bored.

Really? Oh boy, I thought not mixing the foods was more about how kibble is generally not as great for digestion so why bother, not about how it's actually dangerous to mix with raw. I'll look into that more! He's definitely not touching his kibble, so I think that's not an immediate problem, but I may just remove it altogether.

I’m not a breeder but I do foster and I must agree, kittens are bottomless pits! They don’t really eat out of boredom (they will FIND ways to amuse themselves), they are just always hungry. I have never limited food for a growing kitten. They grow so quickly that they need everything they take in.
Definitely, make sure to add the nutritional boosters to the raw food diet and I’m sure you know to cook the meat (you seem to know how the raw food diet works). On the off chance you haven’t been cooking the meat, you might want to do a vet visit (not an emergency but soon) because it could be a sign of internal paricites.
It’s best to have scheduled feedings but at this age, it’s not detrimental to allow them access to food constantly. By a year though, it is better for them.

Good! I'm glad my bottomless pit in a fur coat is behaving normally. I added in the nutritional boosters last night and he's not as gung-ho about his food, but he'll still eat it. I'm sure he'll adjust quickly to the new taste. Also, I feed raw (not cooked) food from Hare Today, which is specifically butchered, ground, and immediately frozen to make sure it's safe for carnivores to consume raw. I've wondered about internal parasite being a problem, but everything I've read says to NOT cook the meat because cats' stomachs are designed to deal with raw meat. I will definitely look further into this, though!

 

[LTS3]

Kittens tend to have worms anyways so you may want to ask the vet about deworming if that hasn't already been done yet. Starting a monthly parasite preventative is also a good idea.

What canned foods are you feeding? Kittens can be picky. Try any kitten food or all life stages food. You can feed canned and raw without any issue.

 

[lisahe]

Just to be clear, katfisk, are you adding supplements to the meat that make it into a complete food for your kitten? There are tons of various types of supplements on the market and not all of them do that! (This gets particularly confusing because some are used with boneless meat, others with bone, etc., etc., etc.!) In any case, complete food is especially important for a small kitten, for development.

As for parasites, I think those would be the least of my worries with raw food, particularly if you're buying frozen stuff from Hare Today! It's bacteria that concern me the most -- I only make homemade cooked food (using the Alnutrin and EZ Complete supplements, which our cats love) because I'm just not very good about using meat right away.

 

[katfisk]

Kittens tend to have worms anyways so you may want to ask the vet about deworming if that hasn't already been done yet. Starting a monthly parasite preventative is also a good idea.

What canned foods are you feeding? Kittens can be picky. Try any kitten food or all life stages food. You can feed canned and raw without any issue.

He's been dewormed then later double-checked by the vet for worms when he was refusing to poop in his litter box (she found it was just box shyness, not worms or constipation, and he started using the box regularly shortly after, thankfully) I'm using Wellness Chicken Pate, as suggested by his breeder. I'll buy a few other flavors to see if he'll take it. I think I'm figuring out how to properly supplement the raw meat I've purchased, so by next week I should have all the ingredients in my kitchen and ready to make big batches of food--so hopefully I won't need to try to convince him to eat canned too much longer. I don't mind giving him canned, but the uncertainty of whether or not he'll eat it is never fun.

Just to be clear, katfisk, are you adding supplements to the meat that make it into a complete food for your kitten? There are tons of various types of supplements on the market and not all of them do that! (This gets particularly confusing because some are used with boneless meat, others with bone, etc., etc., etc.!) In any case, complete food is especially important for a small kitten, for development.

As for parasites, I think those would be the least of my worries with raw food, particularly if you're buying frozen stuff from Hare Today! It's bacteria that concern me the most -- I only make homemade cooked food (using the Alnutrin and EZ Complete supplements, which our cats love) because I'm just not very good about using meat right away.

Supplements have been making my head spin. I did get TCFeline with chicken liver with the intention of adding to ground turkey or chicken, but I didn't realize it had to be a bone-free meat at the time. Thankfully I did order some meats with no organs or bone. Last night I added the TCFeline supplement to any of that meat, then mixed that with some of the other meats that include bone and organs, plus some ground beef organs. I really eyeballed it, though, so I'm ordering a new delivery of supplies (the right ones) and starting over as soon as they're in my kitchen. I plan to use Hare Today's supplements so I can just get it all from the same source and be confident that my kitten is getting complete nutrition, then maybe branch out more as I become better acquainted with the raw food world.

BTW I am concerned about bacteria, too. I do thaw the meat initially to portion it out, but then I refreeze the same day in ice cube trays and then store those cubes in a ziploc bag in the freezer. I only thaw enough chunks (in the fridge) to last a single day, though I often under-estimate and end up thawing more frozen chunks for his dinner. I find that submerging them (in a sealed plastic bag) in a deep bowl of lukewarm water with another matching bowl on top filled with fairly hot water does the trick pretty rapidly. I'm sure to dispose of anything he doesn't eat within an hour or two, which is rare!

 

[lisahe]

Supplements have been making my head spin. I did get TCFeline with chicken liver with the intention of adding to ground turkey or chicken, but I didn't realize it had to be a bone-free meat at the time. Thankfully I did order some meats with no organs or bone. Last night I added the TCFeline supplement to any of that meat, then mixed that with some of the other meats that include bone and organs, plus some ground beef organs. I really eyeballed it, though, so I'm ordering a new delivery of supplies (the right ones) and starting over as soon as they're in my kitchen. I plan to use Hare Today's supplements so I can just get it all from the same source and be confident that my kitten is getting complete nutrition, then maybe branch out more as I become better acquainted with the raw food world.

BTW I am concerned about bacteria, too. I do thaw the meat initially to portion it out, but then I refreeze the same day in ice cube trays and then store those cubes in a ziploc bag in the freezer. I only thaw enough chunks (in the fridge) to last a single day, though I often under-estimate and end up thawing more frozen chunks for his dinner. I find that submerging them (in a sealed plastic bag) in a deep bowl of lukewarm water with another matching bowl on top filled with fairly hot water does the trick pretty rapidly. I'm sure to dispose of anything he doesn't eat within an hour or two, which is rare!

Yes, supplements can make one's head spin! I've never used Hare Today but it sounds like they'd be very helpful if you weren't sure about something. I chose the two supplements I use because they were the easiest for me. But of course what's easiest for me might not be easiest for anybody else -- I think we all have our quirks and preferences! The supplement and a digital kitchen scale are the only real equipment I need.

I hope I didn't imply that I thought you were lax on bacteria! I didn't mean that at all! It seems like a lot of people use a method like yours for defrosting. I sometimes do something similar when I forget to take the next day's portions out of the freezer before bed. Bad Cat Mom makes those mistakes all too regularly.

Anyway, good luck satisfying your kitten's voracious appetite! What is his name?

 

[JoyM]

Homemade Cat Food and Raw Cat Food
I was trying to find a resource for you and this is one that addresses some of the safety concerns. There are also 2 links within this article that go to sites dedicated to the raw food diet if you decide to continue.
I’m not trying to dissuade you or persuade you. Just want you to be safe. I’m against feeding animals uncooked meats but I was a nurse so I have a different point of view. Once you have seen parasite larva in the muscle of some of the meats you regularly eat- cooking is just THAT much more important. Pork and some game meats contain these parasites within the meat itself. It doesn’t matter how clean the butchering or how well they were raised, it can be there from birth and absolutely can infect the consumer (be it human or feline).
Luckily, it is killed through thorough cooking and very little nutrients are lost in the cooking process so I would rather not risk it.

 

[katfisk]

Homemade Cat Food and Raw Cat Food
I was trying to find a resource for you and this is one that addresses some of the safety concerns. There are also 2 links within this article that go to sites dedicated to the raw food diet if you decide to continue.
I’m not trying to dissuade you or persuade you. Just want you to be safe. I’m against feeding animals uncooked meats but I was a nurse so I have a different point of view. Once you have seen parasite larva in the muscle of some of the meats you regularly eat- cooking is just THAT much more important. Pork and some game meats contain these parasites within the meat itself. It doesn’t matter how clean the butchering or how well they were raised, it can be there from birth and absolutely can infect the consumer (be it human or feline).
Luckily, it is killed through thorough cooking and very little nutrients are lost in the cooking process so I would rather not risk it.

No worries, I know about the threat of parasites--at least more than the average Joe. I'm a disease ecologist! I don't study vertebrates, though, so I'd defer to your knowledge on cat parasites/zoonoses.

Do you use the recipe for cooked food that's provided at the end of the article?

 

[lisahe]

No worries, I know about the threat of parasites--at least more than the average Joe. I'm a disease ecologist! I don't study vertebrates, though, so I'd defer to your knowledge on cat parasites/zoonoses.

Do you use the recipe for cooked food that's provided at the end of the article?

I know the Pierson recipe, which is on catinfo.org: that's a very good recipe that our cats loved! I only made it once. I now use premixed supplements, though I do think about using the Pierson recipe again, albeit modified for eggshell calcium instead of bone.

I would not use the second recipe, from MSPCA-Angell Animal Medical Center, because it calls for so much rice/past/carb.

 

[LTS3]

The vet who created the MSPCA recipe is also the founder of BalanceIt. The full recipe with notes is here: http://support.mspca.org/site/DocServer/MSPCA-Angell_Generic_HM_cat_diet.pdf?docID=1561

The recipe is 8 years old and pet nutrition has come quite a way since then.

A better way to make a cooked diet is to use cooked boneless skinless meat of your choice with a pre-mix such as EZComplete or UStew. No carb-y ingredients or other stuff needed.

 

[katfisk]

The vet who created the MSPCA recipe is also the founder of BalanceIt. The full recipe with notes is here: http://support.mspca.org/site/DocServer/MSPCA-Angell_Generic_HM_cat_diet.pdf?docID=1561

The recipe is 8 years old and pet nutrition has come quite a way since then.

A better way to make a cooked diet is to use cooked boneless skinless meat of your choice with a pre-mix such as EZComplete or UStew. No carb-y ingredients or other stuff needed.

I know the Pierson recipe, which is on catinfo.org: that's a very good recipe that our cats loved! I only made it once. I now use premixed supplements, though I do think about using the Pierson recipe again, albeit modified for eggshell calcium instead of bone.

I would not use the second recipe, from MSPCA-Angell Animal Medical Center, because it calls for so much rice/past/carb.

Okay, that second recipe looked very carb-rich to me! Glad I double checked. I used pre-mix for raw meat (TCFeline), but I know that a lot of those nutrients will be made unavailable after cooking. I'll check into the two you recommended so I can have it on hand if I decide to start cooking his food. (And I'll be sure to use fresh, unsupplemented meat for his cooked meals)

Have you had any problems with feeding raw? I usually thaw 1lb at a time, supplement it, portion it, then rethaw. He'll eat that all with no problem over a couple days. However, I recently had to go out of town and prepped ~15 lbs of meat before leaving. He ate fine for the cat sitter (she lived in my home and thawed his 4 daily meals, bless her), but he's recently started turning his nose up to meat from this batch. I'm wondering if it just doesn't taste as "fresh" or if there's something actually wrong with it. I've started cooking it and mixing it with canned food (to make sure he's still getting all his nutrients), but I'm always worried that he senses that something is "off" with the meat and feel torn between tossing out a good chunk of fairly expensive meat and telling myself I'm overreacting. If you have any remarks or insight about this back-and-forth, I'm all ears! (His energy is the same and he's pooping and peeing normally. He seems like a healthy 18 week olds kitten.)