Ragdoll or long hair siamese?

[Astudioworks]

Hi,
We adopted this lovely cata few months ago. It is femal 6 months old.
Wonder, if she is long hair siamese, ragdoll or looks likes other breeds?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Sandra Kay]

Hi,
We adopted this lovely cata few months ago. It is femal 6 months old.
Wonder, if she is long hair siamese, ragdoll or looks likes other breeds?
Thanks for your help.

Looks like a chocolate point siamese with a cross , possibly Ragdoll with the long hair

 

[lutece]

Hi,
We adopted this lovely cata few months ago. It is femal 6 months old.
Wonder, if she is long hair siamese, ragdoll or looks likes other breeds?
Thanks for your help.

Your cat is lovely! I like the pictures that you took, too. Her blue eyes look so vivid in the first picture that they seem to glow.

I would describe your cat as a seal point domestic longhair. Most cats are not any particular breed, and are not "mixes" of breeds, unlike dogs. That doesn't make them any less special, however! Domestic longhairs are great cats, and can be just as pretty and special as any breed

Your cat's seal point color is genetically almost the same as a solid black cat, with the only difference being two copies of the recessive colorpoint gene. The colorpoint gene originally came from the Siamese breed over 70 years ago, but at this time it is very widespread in the domestic cat gene pool. Your cat's parents could have been almost any color themselves, but we know that they were both carriers of this recessive gene. Long hair is also the result of a recessive gene, so her parents might have been either longhaired or shorthaired.

 

[Astudioworks]

Thanks for your kind replay,
I managed to get some pics of father and mother.if it can help for identification.
Both of them are from Morocco !

 

[lutece]

These cats are both seal point longhairs, too. I think that they look more similar to Balinese (longhaired Siamese) than Ragdolls. However, they don't have the extreme appearance of Balinese bred to show standards, so it's not possible to tell from the pictures if they are moderate ("old-fashioned") Balinese, or simply longhaired domestic cats. They are lovely!

 

[Catattack540]

Thanks for your kind replay,
I managed to get some pics of father and mother.if it can help for identification.
Both of them are from Morocco !

I think they are most likely Siamese or balinese especially considering the parents they are super cute too

 

[BNE]

That's definitely a domestic long hair.

 

[Jackmcbob]

for a domestic cat... she looks pretty much exactly like my registered Siamese cat. She looks beautiful but Yes Technically she is a “domestic” if she’s not registered. But honestly registered or not I’d struggle to tell mine and yours apart. So id agree with saying you obviously have a Siamese or Balinese cat to the general population. But for the fancies he’d be considered domestic without papers. Like I have a British short hair who no longer has papers due to the original owner not getting her spayed which caused her not to be given her papers... so she is technically now considered a domestic cat although evidently she isn’t. So it’s never clear cut whether there domestic or not. She could have had two parents or grandparents who were all registered and she now isn’t registered therefore making her pretty much nearly all purebred. Or it could be the opposite with just many random tabbies in the family and just having the colourpoint genes with two parents, But with the parents looking so too I doubt that.

 

[lutece]

for a domestic cat... she looks pretty much exactly like my registered Siamese cat.

You have a registered Siamese cat that is long haired?

 

[Jackmcbob]

You have a registered Siamese cat that is long haired?

No he’s short haired. But the cat in the first picture and third picture where you can’t see the tail looks short haired. It’s long haired only in the tail on the second image. And we know a Balinese cats are just only long haired Siamese cats. My point is even if it is a domestic cat. it looks exactly the same as my registered Siamese but with a slightly long tail. I couldn’t tell much apart my partner when I showed him a picture said “is that our spencer”. so to the normal everyday person he could be considered Siamese or Balinese even without the official papers unless being sold. If not imagine having her cat and mine side by side saying oh my cat is Siamese but this is domestic shorthair. Someone would literally look at you as insane like there the same exact cat pretty much.

 

[lutece]

Many people think "Siamese" just means pointed, and will tell you that any pointed cat is "Siamese." But just because people think that way doesn't make it true.

Some Siamese cats are very moderate in type and look like pointed domestic shorthairs... but that doesn't mean that all pointed domestic shorthairs are Siamese cats. With moderate type Siamese, and with other breeds that have moderate type, you can't necessarily tell from looking at a cat whether it belongs to a specific breed. Belonging to a breed is about the cat's ancestry... not just about its looks.

 

[jefferd18]

No he’s short haired. But the cat in the first picture and third picture where you can’t see the tail looks short haired. It’s long haired only in the tail on the second image. And we know a Balinese cats are just only long haired Siamese cats. My point is even if it is a domestic cat. it looks exactly the same as my registered Siamese but with a slightly long tail. I couldn’t tell much apart my partner when I showed him a picture said “is that our spencer”. so to the normal everyday person he could be considered Siamese or Balinese even without the official papers unless being sold. If not imagine having her cat and mine side by side saying oh my cat is Siamese but this is domestic shorthair. Someone would literally look at you as insane like there the same exact cat pretty much.

Good points and very well stated. Even judges at cat shows have been baffled sometimes when looking at a cat and deciding the breed.

 

[lutece]

Even judges at cat shows have been baffled sometimes when looking at a cat and deciding the breed.

Judges don't decide a cat's breed. When a pedigreed cat is exhibited in a show, it is entered as a specific breed according to its ancestry, and the breed is listed in the judge's book. The judge then evaluates each cat according to its breed standard.

 

[Jackmcbob]

yes a cats breed is through its ancestry. That’s why I mentioned it could be two domestic tabbies being the carrier of the gene. Therefor yes it would be a seal point domestic. But the cat in the image with the parents images available negates that theory... I mean the 4 grandparents could all be domestic but I doubt it with the look of the cat looking so similar to mine. Even the shape of the head is an indication and the eyes look like slightly cross eyed in one picture which is a Siamese trait which is mostly bred out these days. But the point is there are many cats that will be considered “domestic” which quite frankly aren’t just because there papers are lost because people have gotten cats from breeders bred them but no longer have appear because they never got the cat fixed. It happens a lot. Also we all know cat breeding is a very closed seclusive circle in which they keep within themselves. Rarely you find breeders even willing to sell breeding rights on To others so that only few cats from them can be considered a pure bred cat of whichever particular breed is in mention.

Just like my Scottish fold (who is fixed btw)say He wasn’t registered because we chose to get him and not fix him. And bred him with the British short hair I have there kittens would be domestic officially wouldn’t they? But obviously they would be a mix bsh and Scottish fold kittens without papers. And I would tell people they are that exactly that breed because of there ancestry.

 

[StefanZ]

Just like my Scottish fold (who is fixed btw)say He wasn’t registered because we chose to get him and not fix him. And bred him with the British short hair I have there kittens would be domestic officially wouldn’t they? But obviously they would be a mix bsh and Scottish fold kittens without papers. And I would tell people they are that exactly that breed because of there ancestry.

Yes, very true. In some cases it becomes very clear it is papers, and not even proven ancestry, which decide if you are purebred or not. A breed or a moggie. So its with humans and so its with cats. EVEN if we often are trying to be nice and call cats with proven ancestry for their breed. Why, it happens with humans too.

An annotation here: Yours arent really a mix of Fold and bsh. Folds must always be mixed out if you want healthy kittens. And bsh is a common and allowed mixed out breed... So by all practical reasons, yours are purebred Scottish Folds without papers; not a mix thereof. Even if they are bred verry inofficially and irregularly and no regular paperwork.

If you say A, so say B too.

 

[lutece]

yes a cats breed is through its ancestry. That’s why I mentioned it could be two domestic tabbies being the carrier of the gene. Therefor yes it would be a seal point domestic. But the cat in the image with the parents images available negates that theory... I mean the 4 grandparents could all be domestic but I doubt it with the look of the cat looking so similar to mine.

People do often get two pointed domestics and breed them together, thinking they are Siamese (or in this case "longhaired Siamese" or Balinese), since people so frequently believe that any pointed cat is a Siamese. Two pointed domestics will always produce pointed offspring. So although it's possible that these parents are "old-fashioned" moderate type Balinese, we really can't know for sure.

 

[Jackmcbob]

Yes, very true. In some cases it becomes very clear it is papers, and not even proven ancestry, which decide if you are purebred or not. A breed or a moggie. So its with humans and so its with cats. EVEN if we often are trying to be nice and call cats with proven ancestry for their breed. Why, it happens with humans too.

An annotation here: Yours arent really a mix of Fold and bsh. Folds must always be mixed out if you want healthy kittens. And bsh is a common and allowed mixed out breed... So by all practical reasons, yours are purebred Scottish Folds without papers; not a mix thereof. Even if they are bred verry inofficially and irregularly and no regular paperwork.

If you say A, so say B too.

Yes totally understand what you’re saying. And regarding the statement about a mix of bsh and Scottish fold kittens I Think That sentence was badly worded. I understand scottish folds aren’t to be bread together and they are bread with eaither British or American shorthairs and they would produce all fold kittens, But yes they would be purebred without the papers but have all the ancestry But many on here would argue without papers they are domestic which I don’t believe is always true, Ive seen it many times on here even with cats which evidently look purebred. But yes most times they’re right and there domestic shorthairs which people think are Maine coone or Bengal but aren’t . And I agree that breeding that way would be very unofficial basically backyard breeding.

 

[Jackmcbob]

People do often get two pointed domestics and breed them together, thinking they are Siamese (or in this case "longhaired Siamese" or Balinese), since people so frequently believe that any pointed cat is a Siamese. Two pointed domestics will always produce pointed offspring. So although it's possible that these parents are "old-fashioned" moderate type Balinese, we really can't know for sure.

I totally agree no one will ever really know unless they had papers or knew there ancestry. they could be or they couldn’t or maybe half and half who knows.

 

[Astudioworks]

Hi,
Very interesting debate.
In fact, I know that my cat , is not particular breed, obviously because it has no paper . But I just wanted to know what breed it looks like. She is a great companion and we love it witchever looks like Balinese , Siamese or domestic.
Thank you for all your interesting information.

I just got 2 lovely cats, male and female, they looks like persian! Perhaps they are persian,but who cares

 

[lutece]

Those kittens do look like Persians. If they are not purebred Persian kittens, I expect they at least have significant Persian ancestry. They also look quite young, do you know how old they are?

You'll want to be sure to get them accustomed to being groomed while they are young, as they seem to have the Persian type of coat that is likely to mat without regular grooming.