Purebred Cats

ameezers

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So I am hoping that people can help me understand this a bit better (hopefully I don't offend any one).

My question is, is that how can a cat be considered pedegree or purebred if it was produced by mating two cats of a different breeds?

Hymalayans were produced by mating a Persian and Siamese, Tonkinese is a cross between Burmese and Siamese ect., so wouldn't that make them not purebred? Because you are breeding cats from two completely different breeds?

I am having a hard time understanding this. Because there seems to be many breeds that are are a mix of two completely different cats but are recognized under legitimate cat associations.

I consistently see registered breeders saying that you should only breed "in order to improve the breed", so how would mating a Persian to a siamese be improving either breed, because in doing so you are changing the cat entirely?

I am sure it's a long hard road to get a mixed breed cat recognized as purebred, but I don't understand how it's even possible if it is a mix to begin with..
 

Kieka

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There are some breeds where out crossing with specific other breeds is allowed. In those cases which breeds are allowed is very specific. In general though, mixing two different breeds will just give you a pretty moggy. abyeb abyeb is much better at specific names and breeds then I am so I am sure more specifics will come later.

Some of the specific breeds you asked about that are derived as crosses from two different breeds started out that way but now are only recognized if they are from existing lines. They have been refined within the crossing for specific aspects. When a new breed is being established animals are allowed to be registered as that breed provided they fit specific requirements as part of the initial breeding line (for genetic diversity and to grow the base).

For example, Snowshoe Siamese started as a mix of Siamese and a bicolor American Shorthair (among others). Once they started getting consistency in breeding them and established them as a breed only the decendants of thelines established at that specificpoint are actual Snowshoes.

In terms of who can claim purebred status that would be only cats with papers. My Link, for all his lovely lookalikeness, would not be purebred because I have no papers on him. It doesn't matter that I call him a Snowshoe or that he looks like and has the traits of one. Without that registration and being able to trace his lineage he is not in reality a Snowshoe. He is a bicolor pointed DSH likely with Siamese ancestry.... but he is still my Snowshoe.

 
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ameezers

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thanks so much Keika, he is a very gorgeous boy :)
 

abyeb

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With hybrid breeds, it takes a few generations before they are considered pure, meaning that they will breed true (that a Burmilla would produce kittens that look like Burmillas, and not like Burmese or Persians, which the breed was originally founded with). With to standard outcrossing, (e.g., Scottish Fold x American Shorthair or British Shorthair), the resulting offspring would still be considered purebred, as their ancestry has been documented and they have a pedigree.

For newer breeds that are still, in some ways, in the development stage, outcrosses have a time limit. For example, RagaMuffins can be outcrosses with straight haired Selkirk Rex Longhair, until 2030, at which point the breed should have enough genetic base/ diversity for breeders to only mate RagaMuffin x RagaMuffin.

There have been multiple breeds originally created with an outcross, but those were years ago, and many have been established as breeds for a while now. Here's a list of breeds resulting from an outcross ORIGINALLY:

(black) American Shorthair x (sable) Burmese= Bombay

Burmilla (see above)

Burmese x Siamese= European Burmese

American Shorthair x Persian= Exotic

Siamese x black Domestic Shorthair = Havana Brown

Siamese x Abyssinian x American Shorthair= Ocicat

Oriental (Siamese bred to many other breeds, then back to Siamese as an experiment in color)

Siamese x Burmese = Tonkinese

American Curl x Munchkin = Kinkalow

Persian x Munchkin = Minuet

Persian x Ragdoll = RagaMuffin

"Rexed barn cat" x Persian = Selkirk Rex

And not to mention the exotic hybrids:

Domestic Cat x Asian Leopard Cat = Bengal

Domestic Cat x Serval = Savannah

Abyssinian x Jungle Cat = Chausie
 
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ameezers

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thanks for your reply abyeb, so then that means you have to find many breeders that are willing to breed their pedegree cats not to the breed standard, and then continue to do so until the breed has been established, in the hopes that it will eventually be recognized? And how do you do that without inbreeding?
 

abyeb

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thanks for your reply abyeb, so then that means you have to find many breeders that are willing to breed their pedegree cats not to the breed standard, and then continue to do so until the breed has been established, in the hopes that it will eventually be recognized? And how do you do that without inbreeding?
All the breeds I referred to above are recognized by CFA or TICA, but I suppose that the method you described would be accurate for trying to get a new breed recognized, if that's what you were asking. :)
 
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ameezers

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yes sorry if I wasn't clear :) Thanks for taking the time to reply!
 

posiepurrs

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There is a difference in a pedigreed cat and a purebred (really no such thing if you follow the family tree back far enough). Pedigreed means that they have a family tree that can be traced. Purebred usually means that there is no other breed in the pedigree for several generations. Like right now the Persian in CFA has to be 'pure Persian' for 8 generations to be considered pure. When establishing a breed, the breeder has a plan - it usually isn't just a random breeding. I have been approached to use one of my girls (Camie) to breed to help diversify the gene pool of the long haired Burmilla, but declined. I have no problem with doing it except I couldn't bring myself to send her away to the stud for what may have been a long period of time. She is my baby after all!;)
 

abyeb

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There is a difference in a pedigreed cat and a purebred (really no such thing if you follow the family tree back far enough). Pedigreed means that they have a family tree that can be traced. Purebred usually means that there is no other breed in the pedigree for several generations. Like right now the Persian in CFA has to be 'pure Persian' for 8 generations to be considered pure. When establishing a breed, the breeder has a plan - it usually isn't just a random breeding. I have been approached to use one of my girls (Camie) to breed to help diversify the gene pool of the long haired Burmilla, but declined. I have no problem with doing it except I couldn't bring myself to send her away to the stud for what may have been a long period of time. She is my baby after all!;)
posiepurrs posiepurrs brings up an important point, often we use pedigree/purebred interchangeably, when there is a clear distinction. :thumbsup:
 
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