Hi. I was approached by another breeder asking to provide my stud for breeding. I am generally open to this, but I have never done it before so I am now thinking how to make it work in a safe and beneficial way for myself, the other breeder, and our cats. Have you had previous experience with it? If yes, can you please provide information about this process? TIA.
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Providing a stud to another breeder
- Thread starter Natuska
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
Thank you. Will wait for your reply.
OK. A little about the procedure. Its always good you and the other are on the same wavelengh, ie you can speak together and feel its OK. If you meet, you take your coffe and cake, talk, compare the pedigrees, photos... If you meet on distance, a telephone and mail will do.
You write up a contract. The costs, - What happens in the mating doesnt results. What happens if it results. The responsibilities.
In Sweden, we use usually hire swords - in part to make sure none stud has too many kittens, and not produce too many genetical siblings. To secure a genetical diversity. And so, our boys were such hire swords, especielly when we noticed they were both friendly - and knew how to do it.
so, usually there is a mating fee. And a fee for every born, healthy living kitten. The overall fee together is often roughly the cost of 1 kitten (or less). some take simply one of the kittens as their fee.
If the mating was without result, its the common the contract quarantees a re-mating for free. You may guard against remating, feks if you expect your stud to be neutered soon.
Cleaning fee: some stud owners "with scottish ancestry" want to get payed a cleaning fee. We didnt do it. Still it MAY be wise to take some cleaning fee, if nothing else, if it becomes extra messy. Anyway, there is usually extra job when preparing for the meeting esp if you have the stud, and thus, the mating, in your own home.
How and where. Usually, you do NOT lend out your stud, to be in the home of the breeder. If nothing else, there is a risk the breeder misusues the trust, and uses stud to more breedings... This danger common with byb breeders, where its not that important with pedigrees. I have seen owners of stud complaining the breeder didnt returned the stud....
That said, owner of our oldest resident, usually lend home the stud to herself... So this happens, but its less common.
WE usually took the queen home to us = owner delivered. Best is if you do have prepared a mating room. Easier to clean up, if nothing else. You have the litter there, water food, some laying places, perhaps a couple of toys. Somewhere where the stud can flee after the mating is done.
If they are in the flat, you will get to tidy up the whole flat. - yeah, we happened to do so with our first visiting queen....
And so they will be there till it results. May be just a couple of hourse, may be several days. Depends on how experienced they are, and their personality.
If they are friendly with each other, there is no problem... You put down her transport cage, and let her be somewhat accustomed to the room. you open the cage, etc. After a while you take her back into the cage, and let the stud in... Let them smell on each other through the cage... After a while you open the cage, and let her come out in her own time.
Its quite common she plays the difficult, and male beleguers and courts, she sweeping with paw at him. But its parts of courtship, When she is ready and he sees it, they mate. He flees, because immediately after mating she attacks. AFTERWARDS they usually become good pals, and next mating is quicker and easier.... You dont always actually see them mate. But Them suddenly becoming pals is a good sign they did mated.
You of course watch them, esp in the beginning till you are sure they are friendly... Our studs were friendly to their visiting wifes.
After you see they are friendly with each other, the further close guarding not longer strictly necessary.
Owners? Usually best if stay in a hotell or hostel. And leave after the introduction. The stud may easily get intimitadet by the presence of a stranger in his home... One wife had one intimidating owner, where our young stud did hide in the bathroom... But another, more quiet breeder was with us in the mating room, and they did the whole in less than a hour... Some courting included. We let wife stay over the night, just to be sure.
Theoretically, one mating should suffice. We usually made sure they mated several times. Of course, not too much time between, to not risk the kittens are of different age.
The females usually are suprprising OK by being guests, handled just be the hosts... A wonderful experience in itself for us, to learn and handle all these females, whom trusted us, and accepted us as their guardians.
There IS an alternative, however. You can do it at a hotel. Make sure its a hotel / motel accepting animals. Make sure the hotel corridor isnt NOT open to the outside: if one of the cats happens to come loose, they can be catched in the corridor.
Essentially the same procedure as above. You take each own room, and meet in one of them. HERE its probably easier for both owners to superwise: its not the studs own territory, so its not THAT peculiar others are there too.
We did so a couple of times with our contemporary stud, went OK. No need either to clean nothing...
We didnt took extra payment for the costs of the hotellroom, we too wished "grandchildren",
but its probably natural to demand return of the costs you otherwise wouldnt have.
That is what I remember for the moment.
You are welcome with detailed questions and follow up questions.
You write up a contract. The costs, - What happens in the mating doesnt results. What happens if it results. The responsibilities.
In Sweden, we use usually hire swords - in part to make sure none stud has too many kittens, and not produce too many genetical siblings. To secure a genetical diversity. And so, our boys were such hire swords, especielly when we noticed they were both friendly - and knew how to do it.
so, usually there is a mating fee. And a fee for every born, healthy living kitten. The overall fee together is often roughly the cost of 1 kitten (or less). some take simply one of the kittens as their fee.
If the mating was without result, its the common the contract quarantees a re-mating for free. You may guard against remating, feks if you expect your stud to be neutered soon.
Cleaning fee: some stud owners "with scottish ancestry" want to get payed a cleaning fee. We didnt do it. Still it MAY be wise to take some cleaning fee, if nothing else, if it becomes extra messy. Anyway, there is usually extra job when preparing for the meeting esp if you have the stud, and thus, the mating, in your own home.
How and where. Usually, you do NOT lend out your stud, to be in the home of the breeder. If nothing else, there is a risk the breeder misusues the trust, and uses stud to more breedings... This danger common with byb breeders, where its not that important with pedigrees. I have seen owners of stud complaining the breeder didnt returned the stud....
That said, owner of our oldest resident, usually lend home the stud to herself... So this happens, but its less common.
WE usually took the queen home to us = owner delivered. Best is if you do have prepared a mating room. Easier to clean up, if nothing else. You have the litter there, water food, some laying places, perhaps a couple of toys. Somewhere where the stud can flee after the mating is done.
If they are in the flat, you will get to tidy up the whole flat. - yeah, we happened to do so with our first visiting queen....
And so they will be there till it results. May be just a couple of hourse, may be several days. Depends on how experienced they are, and their personality.
If they are friendly with each other, there is no problem... You put down her transport cage, and let her be somewhat accustomed to the room. you open the cage, etc. After a while you take her back into the cage, and let the stud in... Let them smell on each other through the cage... After a while you open the cage, and let her come out in her own time.
Its quite common she plays the difficult, and male beleguers and courts, she sweeping with paw at him. But its parts of courtship, When she is ready and he sees it, they mate. He flees, because immediately after mating she attacks. AFTERWARDS they usually become good pals, and next mating is quicker and easier.... You dont always actually see them mate. But Them suddenly becoming pals is a good sign they did mated.
You of course watch them, esp in the beginning till you are sure they are friendly... Our studs were friendly to their visiting wifes.
After you see they are friendly with each other, the further close guarding not longer strictly necessary.
Owners? Usually best if stay in a hotell or hostel. And leave after the introduction. The stud may easily get intimitadet by the presence of a stranger in his home... One wife had one intimidating owner, where our young stud did hide in the bathroom... But another, more quiet breeder was with us in the mating room, and they did the whole in less than a hour... Some courting included. We let wife stay over the night, just to be sure.
Theoretically, one mating should suffice. We usually made sure they mated several times. Of course, not too much time between, to not risk the kittens are of different age.
The females usually are suprprising OK by being guests, handled just be the hosts... A wonderful experience in itself for us, to learn and handle all these females, whom trusted us, and accepted us as their guardians.
There IS an alternative, however. You can do it at a hotel. Make sure its a hotel / motel accepting animals. Make sure the hotel corridor isnt NOT open to the outside: if one of the cats happens to come loose, they can be catched in the corridor.
Essentially the same procedure as above. You take each own room, and meet in one of them. HERE its probably easier for both owners to superwise: its not the studs own territory, so its not THAT peculiar others are there too.
We did so a couple of times with our contemporary stud, went OK. No need either to clean nothing...
We didnt took extra payment for the costs of the hotellroom, we too wished "grandchildren",
but its probably natural to demand return of the costs you otherwise wouldnt have.
That is what I remember for the moment.
You are welcome with detailed questions and follow up questions.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
Thank you so much for the detailed information. I really don’t have space for another queen right now, so I’d need to give my stud to the other breeder. What kind of security can I request to guarantee his safe return? Also, do you have a copy of the agreement you usually sign? Would be great to see an example of such an agreement.OK. A little about the procedure. Its always good you and the other are on the same wavelengh, ie you can speak together and feel its OK. If you meet, you take your coffe and cake, talk, compare the pedigrees, photos... If you meet on distance, a telephone and mail will do.
You write up a contract. The costs, - What happens in the mating doesnt results. What happens if it results. The responsibilities.
In Sweden, we use usually hire swords - in part to make sure none stud has too many kittens, and not produce too many genetical siblings. To secure a genetical diversity. And so, our boys were such hire swords, especielly when we noticed they were both friendly - and knew how to do it.
so, usually there is a mating fee. And a fee for every born, healthy living kitten. The overall fee together is often roughly the cost of 1 kitten (or less). some take simply one of the kittens as their fee.
If the mating was without result, its the common the contract quarantees a re-mating for free. You may guard against remating, feks if you expect your stud to be neutered soon.
Cleaning fee: some stud owners "with scottish ancestry" want to get payed a cleaning fee. We didnt do it. Still it MAY be wise to take some cleaning fee, if nothing else, if it becomes extra messy. Anyway, there is usually extra job when preparing for the meeting esp if you have the stud, and thus, the mating, in your own home.
How and where. Usually, you do NOT lend out your stud, to be in the home of the breeder. If nothing else, there is a risk the breeder misusues the trust, and uses stud to more breedings... This danger common with byb breeders, where its not that important with pedigrees. I have seen owners of stud complaining the breeder didnt returned the stud....
That said, owner of our oldest resident, usually lend home the stud to herself... So this happens, but its less common.
WE usually took the queen home to us = owner delivered. Best is if you do have prepared a mating room. Easier to clean up, if nothing else. You have the litter there, water food, some laying places, perhaps a couple of toys. Somewhere where the stud can flee after the mating is done.
If they are in the flat, you will get to tidy up the whole flat. - yeah, we happened to do so with our first visiting queen....
And so they will be there till it results. May be just a couple of hourse, may be several days. Depends on how experienced they are, and their personality.
If they are friendly with each other, there is no problem... You put down her transport cage, and let her be somewhat accustomed to the room. you open the cage, etc. After a while you take her back into the cage, and let the stud in... Let them smell on each other through the cage... After a while you open the cage, and let her come out in her own time.
Its quite common she plays the difficult, and male beleguers and courts, she sweeping with paw at him. But its parts of courtship, When she is ready and he sees it, they mate. He flees, because immediately after mating she attacks. AFTERWARDS they usually become good pals, and next mating is quicker and easier.... You dont always actually see them mate. But Them suddenly becoming pals is a good sign they did mated.
You of course watch them, esp in the beginning till you are sure they are friendly... Our studs were friendly to their visiting wifes.
After you see they are friendly with each other, the further close guarding not longer strictly necessary.
Owners? Usually best if stay in a hotell or hostel. And leave after the introduction. The stud may easily get intimitadet by the presence of a stranger in his home... One wife had one intimidating owner, where our young stud did hide in the bathroom... But another, more quiet breeder was with us in the mating room, and they did the whole in less than a hour... Some courting included. We let wife stay over the night, just to be sure.
Theoretically, one mating should suffice. We usually made sure they mated several times. Of course, not too much time between, to not risk the kittens are of different age.
The females usually are suprprising OK by being guests, handled just be the hosts... A wonderful experience in itself for us, to learn and handle all these females, whom trusted us, and accepted us as their guardians.
There IS an alternative, however. You can do it at a hotel. Make sure its a hotel / motel accepting animals. Make sure the hotel corridor isnt NOT open to the outside: if one of the cats happens to come loose, they can be catched in the corridor.
Essentially the same procedure as above. You take each own room, and meet in one of them. HERE its probably easier for both owners to superwise: its not the studs own territory, so its not THAT peculiar others are there too.
We did so a couple of times with our contemporary stud, went OK. No need either to clean nothing...
We didnt took extra payment for the costs of the hotellroom, we too wished "grandchildren",
but its probably natural to demand return of the costs you otherwise wouldnt have.
That is what I remember for the moment.
You are welcome with detailed questions and follow up questions.
Our agreements were rather amateurish, esp as we relied on each other, and both were known in the world of our breed...
so it wasnt really a question of safety, but the prices, and the right of remating IF.
Quarantee for safe return?? As said, its NOT the usual to just lend out the stud. Easiest is prob a money deposit. Otherwise the classical is a hostage. (Im joking ).
so it wasnt really a question of safety, but the prices, and the right of remating IF.
Quarantee for safe return?? As said, its NOT the usual to just lend out the stud. Easiest is prob a money deposit. Otherwise the classical is a hostage. (Im joking ).
I talked with missus to refresh my memory. Its missus whom was the active in the proceedings; my role was more of supporting hubby.
OK, so the overall is as I remeber and wrote.
What missus reminded me of, was the writing up of the medical demands.
All usual vaccinations,
no known parasite problems (tip: trichomonas infections are tricky, and the cure reminds of horse medicine; the females becomes often more or less infertile). This part is somewhat tricky; inside only purebreds are usually NOT dewormed... So its important to be sure they dont become infected, by say a company cat a domestic, whom is allowed to go out...
Heart checked up, fresh vet check up...
Test? It depends in much on the breed. In our breed we were hunting for PRA, an eye disease. A specialized vet must do a check up.
Exact what to watch out depends on breed and situation.
IF the demand is unique for that breeder using the stud, its the breeder whom should pay.
IF its a demand common for a stud in that breed - its sooner the stud owner whom should pay...
In our case: WE wished for our boys genes to go further on... So we did pay. without much flinching.. but if the stud is highly desirable by the queens - its sooner the queens owner whom should pay for these additional tests...
Be sure your insurance covers what may be covered...
Also, esp if you lend out the cat: make sure arrangements the cat cant flee... It happens occasionally... And if he is with people he doesnt known, he wont come back only because they call on him...
So, its wise he has a collar, and is used to a leash... Have always collar / leash on while transporting...
