Probiotics Search - Human Grade and CFUs

[peer jones]

Calcium is added because cats don't generally get bones to chew on (which they would 'in the wild' eating small animals)

As far as I know, too much makes their poop hard dry and white

 

[vball91]

I don't understand why calcium would be added to a probiotics product either. Calcium is added to food to generate the proper calcium to phosphorus ratio, so adding a random amount to something else would upset that ratio. I would avoid that product.

 

[ldg]

Well, apparently there is a study indicating that calcium and probiotics work together synergistically - probiotics apparently increase calcium uptake, and at least a certain type of calcium helps increase probiotic survival in the gut: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...ic-survival-in-the-gut-cut-cholesterol-levels

I got a lot of hits on "calcium and probiotic" on google, but didn't wade through any of them, just took a quick read of the link above.

But I agree with vball91: I don't know that I'd give a cat (especially with constipation issues) a probiotic or digestive enzymes that have added calcium. Here's a link to the product website: http://www.animalessentials.com/#products:63

I don't like they don't tell you anything about the probiotics in it. The only information that's useful is that there is about 200mg of calcium per g of product. OnlyNaturalPets has more info: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Animal-Essentials-Plant-Enzymes-Probiotics/148017.aspx

It says the directions are to use 1/4 teaspoon for cats. Well - how much does that weigh? How much calcium is in that?

I feed raw, so I worked out how much calcium I need to balance the phosphorus in my cats' meat and organs. I have two cats that eat 3 ounces of food a day. The TOTAL amount of calcium they get is a little less than 200mg per ounce of food, so about 600mg of calcium a day. Adding 200mg to that would completely throw off their calciumhosphorus ratio. It wouldn't put it past the "safe" limit of 2:1, and obviously cats eating more food alters the Ca ratio less. Of course, I have no idea if the suggested amount is 1g of the product or not. :dk:

Interesting on the digestive enzymes though. Ever since Ming Loy had her bout of pancreatitis, I've put the cats on digestive enzymes. I use Prozyme original. It just takes a pinch of the stuff on each meal. Spooky and Ming Loy used to have some issues with constipation, and neither has had an issue since starting the digestive enzymes (knock wood). :dk: No idea if there's a relationship there or not, but it is interesting.

 

[carolina]

Laurie, are you using 1/4 capsule of the Nexabiotic 2x a day, or 1/2 capsule?
I just changed to 1/4 capsule, but wanted to know what you are doing..... Will report how they hold up :cross:

 

[ldg]

I decided to use 1/2 a capsule 2x a day. The "dose" listed on the bottle is 30 billion CFU per 2 capsules. So each capsule is 15 billion CFU. As Chum used to be on 20, I figured I liked 15 billion better than 7.5 billion. But I think either would be fine. Obviously depends on the cats - and saves money giving less. :lol3: I may move to 1/4 capsule 2x a day. :dk:

 

[carolina]

I decided to use 1/2 a capsule 2x a day. The "dose" listed on the bottle is 30 billion CFU per 2 capsules. So each capsule is 15 billion CFU. As Chum used to be on 20, I figured I liked 15 billion better than 7.5 billion. But I think either would be fine. Obviously depends on the cats - and saves money giving less. :lol3: I may move to 1/4 capsule 2x a day. :dk:

Yeah - the only issue with giving 1/4 capsule is dosing it - tedious work

So I think I will give 1/4 capsule 2x a day while I am in the house, and let the sitters give 1/2 cap - It would never happen otherwise :lol3:

I am SOOOO happy with that probiotic - miracle probiotic IMHO.
Cures Clostridium without antibiotics....... And to top it off they eat it!!!
Love that it protects against Salmonella and E. Coli - I just feel safer :bigthumb:

 

[ldg]

Yeah, it really seems to cover all the bases. The acidophilus and bifidus covers the salmonella and E. coli; the S. boulardii covers the clostridium and coccidia. I'm so sorry your kitties got the C. perf, Carolina, but it was GREAT to see how well the S. boulardii worked to resolve the problem. :nod: A good learning experience for all of us.

 

[carolina]

Yeah, it really seems to cover all the bases. The acidophilus and bifidus covers the salmonella and E. coli; the S. boulardii covers the clostridium and coccidia. I'm so sorry your kitties got the C. perf, Carolina, but it was GREAT to see how well the S. boulardii worked to resolve the problem. :nod: A good learning experience for all of us.

A great lesson for my vet too

 

[ldg]

Mine too! We rescued those kittens with coccidia in June, and as they had to stay in boarding because we can't foster, I asked them to use the S. boulardii rather than antibiotics. She was SO impressed!

 

[carolina]

Mine too! We rescued those kittens with coccidia in June, and as they had to stay in boarding because we can't foster, I asked them to use the S. boulardii rather than antibiotics. She was SO impressed!

:bigthumb::bigthumb::bigthumb:
I had forgotten to ask you how it worked for the kittens - I am thrilled!!

 

[raintyger]

Well, apparently there is a study indicating that calcium and probiotics work together synergistically - probiotics apparently increase calcium uptake, and at least a certain type of calcium helps increase probiotic survival in the gut: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...ic-survival-in-the-gut-cut-cholesterol-levels

I got a lot of hits on "calcium and probiotic" on google, but didn't wade through any of them, just took a quick read of the link above.

But I agree with vball91: I don't know that I'd give a cat (especially with constipation issues) a probiotic or digestive enzymes that have added calcium. Here's a link to the product website: http://www.animalessentials.com/#products:63

I don't like they don't tell you anything about the probiotics in it. The only information that's useful is that there is about 200mg of calcium per g of product. OnlyNaturalPets has more info: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Animal-Essentials-Plant-Enzymes-Probiotics/148017.aspx

It says the directions are to use 1/4 teaspoon for cats. Well - how much does that weigh? How much calcium is in that?

I feed raw, so I worked out how much calcium I need to balance the phosphorus in my cats' meat and organs. I have two cats that eat 3 ounces of food a day. The TOTAL amount of calcium they get is a little less than 200mg per ounce of food, so about 600mg of calcium a day. Adding 200mg to that would completely throw off their calciumhosphorus ratio. It wouldn't put it past the "safe" limit of 2:1, and obviously cats eating more food alters the Ca ratio less. Of course, I have no idea if the suggested amount is 1g of the product or not.

Interesting on the digestive enzymes though. Ever since Ming Loy had her bout of pancreatitis, I've put the cats on digestive enzymes. I use Prozyme original. It just takes a pinch of the stuff on each meal. Spooky and Ming Loy used to have some issues with constipation, and neither has had an issue since starting the digestive enzymes (knock wood).

No idea if there's a relationship there or not, but it is interesting.

I called the manufacturer of one product that has calcium in it. Not the one discussed before, but this one:

http://total-zymes.com/totalbiotics_ingredients.html

Somewhere on the website (which I can't find anymore!) it says that their proprietary Live Enzyme Activation Delivery System, which they abbreviate L.E.A.D.S., has calcium in it. The company actually had Dr. John Taylor, who developed the system, call me back. According to him:

The amount of calcium in the L.E.A.D.S. does not contribute to dietary calcium because it is formulated so that the probiotics use it in order to take root and colonize. He declined to say how much FOS was in the mixture on the grounds that it was a proprietary blend, but said the amount was small and intended to provide a breeding ground for the probiotics. He also emphasized how it was made from Jerusalem artichoke, which is supposed to be a quality source of FOS. (If you ask me he did seem a little polished, like he was used to marketing the product. Not necessarily bad, but being a marketing person myself, you learn how to point out the good and de-emphasize the bad.)

 

[mschauer]

Mine too! We rescued those kittens with coccidia in June, and as they had to stay in boarding because we can't foster, I asked them to use the S. boulardii rather than antibiotics. She was SO impressed!

Are you saying the coccidia resolved using only S. boulardii and no antibiotics?

 

[ldg]

Yes. They were only at the vet for ... a little over a week before being adopted out, but the adopters knew to continue with the S. boulardii for at least a month. They've been back to the vet and are doing great - no coccidia. The diarrhea associated with the coccidia was gone after the first two treatments of S. boulardii.

I don't know if you followed Carolina's thread in the raw forum, but same thing for Clostridium perfringrens - treatment with S. boulardii resolved the problem with no antibiotic use.

 

[carolina]

Yes!!!!!!
I took back the poop sample for my vet for the PCR test and he took one look at the perfectly formed, tiny raw poop and asked "how old is this poop?"
When I said not even a day, he told me to toss it and not waste the money :lol3::lol3::lol3::lol3:

He said they are fine and not to worry about it - he was shocked

S. Boulardii Firmed the poop from water, violent diarrhea, to normal poop in pretty much a day!

I will continue giving it though, due to the high rate of reoccurrence, and just because I found a probiotic with it that is fantastic and they love it :bigthumb:

 

[peaches08]

We ought to see if the mods will sticky something about probiotics and this specific one!

 

[justmelilb]

My holistic vet suggests human grade pet products over all. I don't think I need to clarify that but let me put it another way anyway... made for pets with human grade product. I feed my four fur babies Blue Buffalo holistic and use human grade lysine to boost immunity a little more. Blue has lysine in it but it's not a huge amount. My youngest fur ball suffers a form of uveitis possibly caused by feline herpes virus although we don't know for sure. But since she was rescued from a hoarding situation it's a logical guess. It also has some probioitics but I considering some extra supplementation on that too.

 

[jclark]

bump....

Looking to purchase some from The Vitamin Shoppe www.vitaminshoppe.com. Any suggestions on which one you would buy? I have a senior IBD cat who's eating but doesn't seem to be maintaining his weight.

 

[vball91]

I would recommend this one: http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=F3-1002#.Ui35BnDnZjo. One capsule a day split into two servings if possible (one is fine as well).

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

bump....

Looking to purchase some from The Vitamin Shoppe www.vitaminshoppe.com. Any suggestions on which one you would buy? I have a senior IBD cat who's eating but doesn't seem to be maintaining his weight.

I'm not sure that probiotics will help him maintain his weight though.  Unless he is having chronic diarrhea (common in IBD cats).  But I would still highly recommend using probiotics, even for cats that aren't sick.  The bigger issue is...why is he losing weight?  Seniors are inclined towards other issues such as kidney disease, diabetes, thyroid problems.  Have you had a senior blood panel done lately?  When my old guy started losing weight, we discovered he had kidney disease.  Don't want to scare you, but IF it's something like that, better to find out sooner than later, because there are things that can be done to slow it down. (mainly diet, same as with IBD)   Hopefully it's nothing, just some loss of muscle mass as he is aging and not running around as much. 

 

[ldg]

bump....

Looking to purchase some from The Vitamin Shoppe www.vitaminshoppe.com. Any suggestions on which one you would buy? I have a senior IBD cat who's eating but doesn't seem to be maintaining his weight.

You might want to start your own thread in this forum. Apart from all of the things mrsgreenjeens mentioned, the first question that comes to mind is, what are you feeding him? But I don't want to take this thread off-topic. Seniors need high protein diets: http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/11/optimal-protein-requirements-for-older.html