Probiotics Search - Human Grade and CFUs

[raintyger]

I've been trying to find a good probiotic. All my research has results in some questions:

Human probiotics - Have heard different stories on whether or not to give to a cat. Have heard that you shouldn't give them to a cat because some human strains could irritate them. Have also heard that you can give them human probiotics, but it just won't be as effective. Have also heard that you can give it to them and there was no drawback stated.

CFUs - Most pet probiotics have much lower CFUs, yet I'm hearing to give 5-10 billion/day.

Can anybody clear this up?

Thanks.

 

[ritz]

Here is a thread in the Raw feeding forum that discusses probiotics.  I have raw for almost two years, and about six months ago I started giving Ritz probiotics every day because she throws up a lot.  She still throw up (being addressed holistically soon), but I figure it can't hurt her.  I may start reducing the frequency I give her the probiotics, and when she was on antibiotics, I was careful about the timing of the pro/anti biotic.

I don't believe a probiotic for pets is needed, just a good quality one for humans is fine.  (And there are much much better ones than FortiFlora.)

For Ritz, I use this one because it has 10 billion active cell units and the base is not milk (and cause other people on the raw forum recommended this brand).  It does not need refrigeration.

Every cat is different; some cats have diarrehea on probiotics.  Ritz doesn't and likes the taste.  But then she like the taste of (raw) eyeballs.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

My cats take the same one Ritz uses.  Never had any issues.  They used to use the Mercola one for pets, and they didn't like it.  I never could get up to the required dosage because they just didn't like the taste of it and it required quite a large scoopful (which I divided into 3 meals, but STILL didn't work for them), so I finally gave the remainder to a dog lover friend of mine

 

[ldg]

I give my cats a probiotic daily, and with everything I've learned about the link between gut health and the immune system, no matter what diet I was feeding, I'd be giving them a probiotic daily (and my husband and I take them as well now).

Since 70% of the immune system in animals is found in the gastrointestinal tract, a healthy mucosal lining populated by beneficial bacteria is very important to preventing and fighting infection.

From this piece: http://www.pethealthandnutritioncen...tion-and-supplementation/probiotics-for-pets/

There is an ENORMOUS amount of research out there on various probiotics. Although there is benefit to giving dead probiotics ("fermentation product" - Dr. Hofve discusses it a bit in her article on probiotics: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/probiotics-a-dietary-powerhouse-for-your-cat/ ), my holistic vet feels live cultures are superior. :dk:

Pet probiotics, all that I've seen, are made from fermentation product. The typical dose for our cats is 3 - 5 million CFU (whether live cultures or fermentation product) - the same as typcial dose recommendation for children. Again, my vet recommends 10 billion CFU of live cultures from a good quality human probiotic, because even high quality probiotics don't all survive the trip through the stomach acid.

I was using a goat-milk based product, Natural Factors double-strength acidophilus+bifidus. They used to get one capsule a day sprinkled on their food. I've just recently switched to a probiotic with more strains, the reason is the inclusion of S. Boulardii. There are a zillion studies out there showing the efficacy of L. acidophilus and Bifidobacterium having efficacy against things like salmonella, giardia, E. coli, etc. L. acidophilus & S. boulardii are basically the two most researched strains: S. Boulardii provides protection against (at least) coccidia and clostridium strains. So I'm now using Nexabiotic 20 strain. It's 30 million CFU but in 2 pills; so 1 pill has 15 million CFU. I give my cats 1/4 a capsule in the AM and 1/4 a capsule in the PM, so they're getting 7.5 million CFU daily.

This piece is written by Purina (which makes Fortiflora, which features E. faecium fermentation product), but it discusses other aspects of probiotic use and other strains, and has a long list of references if you're interested further: http://www.isfm.net/newsletter/student/articles/probiotics.pdf

The way I figure it, cats in the wild get a dose of probiotics with every meal (eating an entire animal). Our kitties at home need them too, because their diet doesn't naturally provide them, not matter what type of food is fed. It's probably even more important for kitties eating a processed diet to have probiotics. :dk:

 

[homeopath]

Hi,

Vitacost has Pet probiotics. You keep it in the fridge. It is the same as human stuff. I got it for my farting cat and it worked!

Love, Alva
 

 

[ldg]

Can you provide a link to the specific one? I see various pet probiotics, but none are the Vitacost brand. :dk:

On the vitacost website I found (for pet probiotics)

NaturVet Digestive Enzymes with probiotics http://www.vitacost.com/naturvet-digestive-enzymes-with-prebiotics-and-probiotics-1-lb-1

Apart from the digestive enzymes it contains "Probiotics (Bacillus coagulans) (32 million cfu of bacillus coagulans at time of manufacture." and "Other Ingredients: Fructooligosaccharide, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, dried aspergillus niger fermentation solubles, trichoderma longibrachiatum, carica papaya, dried bacillus coaglans fermentation product, microcrystalline cellulose, maltodextrins, dicalcium phosphate, non-fat dry milk, natural flavoring, dried whey, vegetable oil, silica aerogel, stearic acid and magnesium stearate"

So the live 32 million CFU is bacillus coagulans, with additional fermentation products, none of which are acidophilus, bifidus, rhamnosus, E. faecium, S. boulardii... all of which we already know are beneficial to cats. Of course, the bacillus coagulans may have advantages, being a different type of probiotic - one that forms spores that are activated by the gastric acid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_coagulans


And Jarrow Pet Dophilus http://www.vitacost.com/jarrow-formulas-pet-dophilus-2-5-oz

Described as "et Dophilus is a probiotic formulation designed to help your pet maintain a balanced intestinal microbial ecosystem in order to promote intestinal health and immune function. In addition to probiotics, Pet Dophilus also contains inulin and Metabolin[emoji]174[/emoji]. Inulin is a natural fiber that helps promote the growth of the beneficial microorganisms. Metabolin[emoji]174[/emoji] is a supernatant powder (special blend of ingredients derived from the fermentation of Lactobacillus and Propionibacterium species), and works synergistically with the probiotic bacteria. Each gram (approximately 1/4 teaspoon) contains 1 billion total probiotic bacteria."

Which contains

Probiotic Blend .....1 Billion Organisms *
L. Casei KE-01 *
P. acidilactici PF7103
L. Acidolphilus LA-14
B. animalis subsp lactis BI-04
B. pseudolongum M602
Inulin 250 mg *
Metabolin[emoji]174[/emoji] (bacterial metabolites) 50 mg
and "Other Ingredients: Maltodextrin, yeast extract, silicon dioxide, and vitamin C"


FYI, this is a description of the probiotic I'm now using for the cats: http://nexabiotic.com/ingredients/

The only "other ingredients" are the stuff used in the capsule and the magnesium stearate that is in just about any supplement made of powder so it can be manufactured in such a way that the powder can more easily be put INTO the capsule. I don't feed my cat the capsule.

 

[thpeech]

I have used Fortiflora for years!! It stopped smelly farts and stools.  I started with every day and then every other and if there was an issue went back to every day.  At this point the cat gets none-- no smelly fart, no loose smelly stools..  I swear by it.

 

[vball91]

I have used Fortiflora for years!! It stopped smelly farts and stools.  I started with every day and then every other and if there was an issue went back to every day.  At this point the cat gets none-- no smelly fart, no loose smelly stools..  I swear by it.

I'm glad to hear that Fortiflora worked for your cat. However, the first ingredient of Fortiflora is animal digest, which some of us find objectionable. It is a great flavoring agent as it is the same stuff sprayed on a lot of dry foods to make it tastier so people have used it successfully as a "topper" to get cats to eat certain foods. As probiotic, there are other better, less expensive, multi-strain, human grade ones out there, for example LDG's recommendations in posts 4 and 6.

 

[ritz]

FortiFlora is kitty crack in Ritz' mind; she literally tried to lick the foil package it comes in.  But it has its purpose: as a topper to get cats to eat certain foods or to make bad tasting prescription medicine more platable.

 

[raintyger]

FYI, this is a description of the probiotic I'm now using for the cats: http://nexabiotic.com/ingredients/

The only "other ingredients" are the stuff used in the capsule and the magnesium stearate that is in just about any supplement made of powder so it can be manufactured in such a way that the powder can more easily be put INTO the capsule. I don't feed my cat the capsule.

I was wondering about the other ingredients that I'm finding in the pet probiotics. A lot of them like adding FOS, which I was told is because it gives something for the probiotics to live off while not in the gut. But then why do human probiotics not necessarily have these ingredients?

Others have calcium in it, and I don't know why.

Since my kitty has constipational issues and I'm trying to feed low fiber,  FOS and calcium are negative features to me, or least it seems like it.

 

[cat dad]

My little one has had runny stools for a few months that feeding raw has already started to clear up. I tried FortiFlora on the suggestion of my vet and he loved the taste of it (yep Kitty Krack) but it didn't seem to do much to fix him.

I thought it my be a good idea just to supplement their diet with a probiotic anyway, but have been a bit overwhelmed.

I bought a bottle of Natural Factors, Acidophilus & Bifidus, 5 Billion active cells. With micro flora. 

Ing: Lactose, whey, goat milk.   (plus the capsule).

I've never used this, but bought it thinking I would but then chickened out because I felt I didn't know enough about it.

Any thoughts on that one?

 

[ldg]

Cat Dad, that's what I used for my cats (just double strength). I later found Natural Factors makes the same thing with goat milk, and then I switched to that. I have no idea if probiotics help my cats or not, but all the research says they do. Articles and blogs say the more strains the better, but Natural Factors has the primary strains with a lot of research done on them, including in cats, and they're shown to be beneficial.

I adopted an FIV kitty with chronic diarrhea, and Fortiflora turned it into explosive diarrhea. I think Fortiflora can help kitties that just took antibiotics, but I don't think it's the kind of probiotic that they need long term. I'd much rather provide acidophilus and bifidobacterium. It helped Chumley quite a bit, so I'm biased.

As to the FOS, basically it's considered a "prebiotic," and so many recommend them, there are studies that indicate they are effective, but I KNOW I read an article by someone who knows what they're talking about from an obligate carnivore, species-appropriate perspective who said to avoid them, and I either didn't bookmark it, or didn't note it in a way I can find it again, and I haven't hit the search term(s) that turned it up. But unless fructooligosaccharides (FOS) are part of something a cat would naturally eat (
which I doubt), I don't know....

 

[cat dad]

Cat Dad, that's what I used for my cats (just double strength). I later found Natural Factors makes the same thing with goat milk, and then I switched to that.

What's the benefit of making it with goat milk?

 

[ldg]

I'm not familiar off-hand with all the health benefits of goat milk, but I do know it has less allergans, rarely creates/triggers lactose intolerance, and is already homogenized. So as far as probiotics go, just a safer "base" than cow's milk for cats, as many adult cats are actually lactose intolerant.

None of my cats had a problem with it, but I figured for the long term, it might be better. :dk:

 

[peer jones]

I'm interested in the subject, Kat-Kat really bugs me if I have Activia (but Pauli won't touch it)

It's got to the stage where I won't open a pot if he's in the house.

I did ask about it several months ago but never got a reply.

I think both cats should be getting probiotics, I'll look for the one mentioned in post 6
 

 

[ldg]

Flowerbelle loves yogurt LOL. Most don't have enough probiotic per amount a cat would eat to be of any probiotic benefit.

 

[raintyger]

Cat Dad, that's what I used for my cats (just double strength). I later found Natural Factors makes the same thing with goat milk, and then I switched to that. I have no idea if probiotics help my cats or not, but all the research says they do. Articles and blogs say the more strains the better, but Natural Factors has the primary strains with a lot of research done on them, including in cats, and they're shown to be beneficial.

I adopted an FIV kitty with chronic diarrhea, and Fortiflora turned it into explosive diarrhea. I think Fortiflora can help kitties that just took antibiotics, but I don't think it's the kind of probiotic that they need long term. I'd much rather provide acidophilus and bifidobacterium. It helped Chumley quite a bit, so I'm biased.

 

Confused here, LDG.

You say you're not sure if the probiotics help your kitties or not, but then Chumley benefits from them??? Could you clarify?

 

[vball91]

Raintyger, in case LDG doesn't see this, I'm pretty sure what she meant was that since Chumley had chronic diarrhea, she saw improvement from using probiotics with Chumley (no more diarrhea). However, with her already healthy cats, it's hard to tell if something is actually helping since there's no visible benefit from it. Since all the research supports "a healthy gut is a healthy immune system", most of us raw feeders give probiotics even if we don't necessarily see a direct benefit. Does that help?

 

[ldg]

Exactly. :nod:

The bottom line is that cats naturally eat a very low fiber diet. Fiber provides a substrate for the growth of healthy bacteria. There are some nasty bacteria that thrive in a high-protein diet (like clostridium strains). This is why so many probiotics provide that substrate (in the form of a "prebiotic" like beet pulp or FOS or whatever). Yet that's not a natural part of the diet for a cat. It is for people, but not cats. As I mentioned before, my thinking is that cats would be getting a dose of probiotics with every meal (eating the entire guts, intestines and colon of their prey - which yes, would have a small amount of fiber in it (2.8% on a dry matter basis)). But even with that small amount of fiber in the diet, our wild cats "refresh" their probiotics with every meal.

It helps that there's so much research (and a rapidly growing knowledge base) on the relationship between gut health and overall immune system function.

...That's my basic thinking on providing probiotics for my kitties daily. The probiotic I now use, Nexabiotic 20 strain, contains S. boulardii, which is not a typical probiotic, it does not populate the gut; it is only active when ingested. That's why I split the probiotic serving into two, one portion given in the morning and one given in the evening.

 

[raintyger]

My little one has had runny stools for a few months that feeding raw has already started to clear up. I tried FortiFlora on the suggestion of my vet and he loved the taste of it (yep Kitty Krack) but it didn't seem to do much to fix him.

I thought it my be a good idea just to supplement their diet with a probiotic anyway, but have been a bit overwhelmed.

I bought a bottle of Natural Factors, Acidophilus & Bifidus, 5 Billion active cells. With micro flora. 

Ing: Lactose, whey, goat milk.   (plus the capsule).

I've never used this, but bought it thinking I would but then chickened out because I felt I didn't know enough about it.

Any thoughts on that one?

Cat Dad,

Probiotics are in general safe. If you OD on them you'll likely get an episode of diarrhea, but that's about it.

I've used that brand before with no ill effects.

Raintyger, in case LDG doesn't see this, I'm pretty sure what she meant was that since Chumley had chronic diarrhea, she saw improvement from using probiotics with Chumley (no more diarrhea). However, with her already healthy cats, it's hard to tell if something is actually helping since there's no visible benefit from it. Since all the research supports "a healthy gut is a healthy immune system", most of us raw feeders give probiotics even if we don't necessarily see a direct benefit. Does that help?

Oh, OK, that makes sense. So if kitty is sick we might be able to tell, but with kitties that are already healthy we may not be able to tell because their gut flora is already at least adequate.

Exactly.

The bottom line is that cats naturally eat a very low fiber diet. Fiber provides a substrate for the growth of healthy bacteria. There are some nasty bacteria that thrive in a high-protein diet (like clostridium strains). This is why so many probiotics provide that substrate (in the form of a "prebiotic" like beet pulp or FOS or whatever). Yet that's not a natural part of the diet for a cat. It is for people, but not cats. As I mentioned before, my thinking is that cats would be getting a dose of probiotics with every meal (eating the entire guts, intestines and colon of their prey - which yes, would have a small amount of fiber in it (2.8% on a dry matter basis)). But even with that small amount of fiber in the diet, our wild cats "refresh" their probiotics with every meal.

It helps that there's so much research (and a rapidly growing knowledge base) on the relationship between gut health and overall immune system function.

...That's my basic thinking on providing probiotics for my kitties daily. The probiotic I now use, Nexabiotic 20 strain, contains S. boulardii, which is not a typical probiotic, it does not populate the gut; it is only active when ingested. That's why I split the probiotic serving into two, one portion given in the morning and one given in the evening.

OK, starting to understand it better now. I might start feeding Hound and Gatos which is pretty much protein meat and nothing else, so I think a probiotic with prebiotics might actually be of use here. It was adding it to foods that already have prebiotics that I was thinking might not be a good idea for a constipated kitty.

I'm still wondering why some products have calcium in it, though. Like the Animal Essentials Plant Enzymes and Probiotics, which seems to be a popular brand.