Premium vs. Ultra-Premium Cat Food

[kat-toy]

Hello,

My first post, please don't scratch the noob

Here come the noob questions:

1) What is the difference between "Premium" and "Ultra-Premium" cat food?

2) What do you consider to be the best Ultra-Premium Dry, Wet and Semi-moist cat foods?

3) Would you please provide a trusted impartial website that reviews and rates ultra-premium cat food?

Thank you,

Kat-Toy

 

[ducman69]

1) Marketing

2) There are various brands of high-quality dry food, but Blue Wilderness (chicken or duck), By Nature Organics, Wellness Core, and Innova Evo are some great ones. For wet food, IMO you don't want to just stick with one brand, but feed a variety of wet. This ensures that you don't encounter flavor burnout, or instill picky eating habits in your cat. Blue, Wellness, Innova, Avoderm, and many others make great wet recipes, and it is always recommended to have at least some wet food in their diet for added hydration. Its also important to have water available at all times, especially when feeding dry, and I recommend either the ceramic Pioneer Big Max or the plastic Drinkwell Platinum out of the ones I have tried. Cats are naturally attracted to running water in nature, as stagnant water typically contains more parasites and is less clean.

3) http://www.thecatsite.com

Amazon and Petsmart user reviews can be a good resource too.

 

[just mike]

First off, glad to see your first post in TCS

Your first question is very simple and can also be complicated at the same time. Marketing is a big thing which includes packaging, advertising language etc. When choosing a cat food, most consumers I come across are interested primarily in 2 things. Cost and ingredients. The major goal for them is to find a cat food that is within their budget but offers a decent ingredient list.

Ducman69 listed a few but you might also check out the Nutro Natural Choice line of foods. You can find more about them at http://www.nutro.com

It is difficult to find a non biased website, or group, for viable information regarding the different brands. Everyone has an opinion and most of them differ.

Hope to see you post more often

 

[kat-toy]

Hello,

Thank you for the tips. I located the recommended brands and bookmarked them. I do recognize some of them on sale at "Pet Smart".

There is a specialty cat food store in my area and they have several brands, including Orijen, NOW! and Acana.

Do you have an opinion on these three brands and how do they compare to the one's you have already recommended?

It seems Nutro has "Corn Gluten Meal" listed as there second ingredient. I thought grains were bad in ultra-premium cat food?

Thank you,

KT

 

[dusty's mom]

If you are going dry, check out Costco's Kirkland brand. It is about $16 for a 25 lb. bag and has NO CORN, and seems to be well balanced.

Read about it here:

 

[sweetpea24]

As to #1, the others have answered that question.

For dry food, I feed go! Natural which is made by Petcurean, the same company that makes Now!. It has a higher amount of protein and meat. I only feed my one cat 1/8 cup twice a day because it is rich but he loves it. Other brands like Orijen and Wellness are good too. As for wet, feed a variety as you don't have to slowly transition between different brands or flavours. Nature's Variety Instinct, go!, Wellness, Weruva, are all good brands. Wellness just put out new foods with different textures: sliced, minced and cubed. Chicken Soup for the Cat lover's Soul is pretty good too. I also occasionally feed my cats Almo Nature which are made of meat and water. They are not complete so you should offer either dry or another wet food or use it as a snack. They have flavours like chicken drumstick, chicken breast, tuna and cheese (a favourite of my cats), atlantic salmon, etc. Irecommend Almo Nature to clients whose cats aren't eating and have had success with it.
The important things to consider are ingredients (and their proportions as many companies engineer their formulas to make them seem higher in protein aka meat but inreality they are not) and what you can afford. If you can afford it, all canned (or raw) would be ideal.

 

[followedbydolls]

Originally Posted by Kat-Toy

Hello,

Thank you for the tips. I located the recommended brands and bookmarked them. I do recognize some of them on sale at "Pet Smart".

There is a specialty cat food store in my area and they have several brands, including Orijen, NOW! and Acana.

Do you have an opinion on these three brands and how do they compare to the one's you have already recommended?

It seems Nutro has "Corn Gluten Meal" listed as there second ingredient. I thought grains were bad in ultra-premium cat food?

Thank you,

KT

I see your in Canada, while we do have much better selection than we once did we still don't have all the brands & the price differences can be rather shocking lol

For instance the costco food mentioned, is a 20lb bag for just under 15$ ..

The foods you mentioned are good, although i admit i have not had any of them for my cats, i tried orijen eons ago and mine turned up there nose.

If you want grain free dry another one to look for is taste of the wild, for foods with some grain... chicken soup, natural balance, felidae( i feed this) blue buffalo(feed this to lol) to name a few...

YOu have a global or pet valu near you?

 

[kat-toy]

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Weruva

Holy smokes, that food looks ten times better than the food I eat

http://www.weruva.com/cat-cuisine-chicken-beef.php

 

[kat-toy]

Originally Posted by followedbydolls

YOu have a global or pet valu near you?

I have got both

 

[furryfriends50]

Originally Posted by Kat-Toy

Hello,

Thank you for the tips. I located the recommended brands and bookmarked them. I do recognize some of them on sale at "Pet Smart".

There is a specialty cat food store in my area and they have several brands, including Orijen, NOW! and Acana.

Do you have an opinion on these three brands and how do they compare to the one's you have already recommended?

It seems Nutro has "Corn Gluten Meal" listed as there second ingredient. I thought grains were bad in ultra-premium cat food?

Thank you,

KT

Good catch on the Nutro - plants to not belong in a cats food. They are carnivores

I wouldn't feed a semi-moist food at all, they tend to be full of bad preservatives and sugar, to things that cats do not need, and are actually very harmful for them.

The best (and thus most premium) food, IMO, would be to feed high quality canned food. A great site to read is http://www.catinfo.org/ and a good book to read is "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer Stronger Life" which is written by Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM.

Happy reading

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by Kat-Toy

Hello,

Thank you for the tips. I located the recommended brands and bookmarked them. I do recognize some of them on sale at "Pet Smart".

There is a specialty cat food store in my area and they have several brands, including Orijen, NOW! and Acana.

Do you have an opinion on these three brands and how do they compare to the one's you have already recommended?

It seems Nutro has "Corn Gluten Meal" listed as there second ingredient. I thought grains were bad in ultra-premium cat food?

Thank you,

KT

Hi Kat-Toy, yes it has corn gluten meal. It's one of the newest fad "controversial ingredients" associated with pet foods lately. From our website http://www.nutro.com

"Corn Gluten Meal: Excellent source of protein that is highly digestible. Corn gluten meal is also a source of sulfur amino acids which are important for skin & coat health. It is also a good source of antioxidants like lutein."

 

[goingpostal]

Originally Posted by NutroMike

Hi Kat-Toy, yes it has corn gluten meal. It's one of the newest fad "controversial ingredients" associated with pet foods lately. From our website http://www.nutro.com

"Corn Gluten Meal: Excellent source of protein that is highly digestible. Corn gluten meal is also a source of sulfur amino acids which are important for skin & coat health. It is also a good source of antioxidants like lutein."

Nutro's website also says this about it in the grain free dog food section. And cats are obligate carnivores, so grains are completely useless in their diet.

Completely gluten free – the grain component thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s hardest to digest

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by GoingPostal

Nutro's website also says this about it in the grain free dog food section. And cats are obligate carnivores, so grains are completely useless in their diet.

Completely gluten free – the grain component thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s hardest to digest

For your reading enjoyment:

TECHNICAL REPORT

The use of corn in pet foods allows us to incorporate starch, protein, fiber, and fatty acids all from one source. There are many valuable nutrients contained by corn that can compliment our other ingredients nicely. Letâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s briefly review the nutrients provided by corn and its benefits for the pet.

Corn is an excellent source of energy because it contains approximately 80% carbohydrate. When comparing corn to other ingredients, few supply as much energy. The carbohydrate portion of corn can be over 95% digestible. In addition to the high digestibility of the carbohydrate portion, corn contains a moderate amount of fat. Fat produces 2.25 times the metabolizable energy per unit weight as carbohydrate. How is this helpful in pet foods? By incorporating corn, we can augment the energy of the diet. Within the fat content, corn is specifically high

Corn gluten is the protein portion of corn. Corn gluten meal (the dried form) provides a source of protein that is complimentary to many meat meal sources of protein. Its digestibility is as high as many meat and fish meals. Corn gluten mealâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s amino acid profile is quite different from meat-based protein sources. It is particularly high in the amino acid cystine. Again, itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s worth re-stating that no one is suggesting that corn gluten be the sole source of protein, but that is makes a good addition to other protein sources. Another benefit is that as protein sources are concerned, corn has relatively low levels of ash.

Another key nutrient that corn supplies is a blend of carotenoids. Carotenoids are nutrients that are converted to vitamin A. Biologic functions that involve carotenoids are vision, skin health, reproduction, and bone and muscle growth. They also have a role as antioxidants.

If these are advantages to corn, then why is there such hesitancy in the market place when it comes to utilizing corn in pet foods? Here are some common arguments against corn:

in linoleic acid which contributes to a healthy coat and skin.

Corn in Pet Foods By Brent Mayabb, DVM

1. “The incidence of food allergy to corn is high.†This is simply not true. If anyone makes this argument, ask for the research that shows this. Studies show an incidence rate of 1.5% of adverse reactions to food are caused by corn. This is no different than the incidence rate of reaction to rice.

2. “Corn is not digestible.†Not all animals can digest whole corn well, but when the kernel is broken by grinding, the germ (fat), starch (carbohydrate), and gluten (protein) are accessible and digestible (>91% digestible).

3. “Carnivores like cats and dogs do not do well on a diet high in grains.†This stems from a misunderstanding in the definition of carnivore. Being a carnivore simply means that to get all of the essential nutrients in the diet in the wild, some animal protein would have to be in the diet. It does not mean that these animals have to subsist solely on meat.

4. “Corn is a cheap way to add ‘fillerâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji] to the diet.†Corn has superior nutritional value - fillers have no nutritional value.However, it is important to understand that either rejecting or accepting a pet food based on the ingredient list is an oversimplification at best, and more likely evidence of lack of nutritional understanding. There is no single protein or carbohydrate source that is ideal. Each ingredient has its advantages, and so combinations of ingredients allow us to construct formulas with very specific features. Some manufacturers would have our customers believe that using certain ingredients is an attempt to cut costs, and that using those ingredients is choosing profit over quality. Not only is this incorrect, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of dog and cat physiology.

 

[sweetpea24]

I read a study recently comparing meat meal to corn gluten meal. The study concluded that both meals provided the same amount of protein but the corn gluten meal was less digestible and increased the mineral requirements. This study has been quoted in vin.com a information website for veterinarians and vet personnel.

I cannot fathom how we can take a species that has not really evolved much in the last few thousand years and is an obligate carnivore - meaning it must have animal protein - and feed it some cheap substitute. Companies like Hills and Purina have spent thousands of dollars on research to prove corn is a viable ingredient in pet food. The above study I believe was sponsored by Purina or one of the big pet food companies yet the very same company includes corn gluten meal in its foods. I don't need a study to tell me that a cat is an obligate carnivore and that it requires animal protein. Heck, even humans can't even digest corn well.

Feeding an obligate carnivore is like fitting a square peg into a round hole.

 

[artgecko]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a really confusing subject...and can be really complicated, what with all the ingredients and anallysis. You will be sure to see a LOT of different opinions on here, but I think there are some basic points most folks can agree on.... BTW, Don't pay attention to the marketing...only what's on the ingredients list / analysis...Many foods are marketed and highly priced when their ingredients are similar to much cheaper foods (just FYI).

Some points to look for:
- As much meat as possible...listed at the front of the ingredients list (i.e. a food with: chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal is better than : chicken meal, rice, turkey meal.

- As few grains / carbs as possible.. although they are all different, cats aren't really designed to digest any carbs..no matter if it's rice, corn, oats, etc. (IMO, they eat MEAT in the wild...they might get a little plant matter from stomach contents of prey, buth that's minimal...many cats gain weight on carb heavy diets b/c they eat a lot of the food trying to get enough protien / fat and the carbs just hang around as fat on the cat.. MY oldest cat, Toby, is this way..he'll balloon up on a carb / corn heavy diet).

- Veggies and fruits are not really necessary (cats aren't omnivores like us..these are usually emphasized on labels to make US think it's a good food).

- Look at the guarenteed analysis..with some exceptions, the lower the carbs and higher the protien level the better. They won't list carb content on the label, so add up the protien, fat, moisture, and ash content, subtract from 100 and that will give you the carb content.

Although the info above is usually true, grain free dry food isn't always the way to go... some cats have issues with digesting such a rich food and if your cat is old / has liver or kidney issues, they may not be for you.

Also, some ingredients can increase the chances of your cat developing a UTI...I avoid any food with fish in it for this reason (one of my cats developed a UTI while they were being fed EVO..a grain free food with fish) and look for low magnesium levels.

Also, FYI..Many people mix 2 or more brands or rotate..this is an option if you can't decide on a favorite or want to integrate some grain free food with regular food.

One more thing... Most people on here will suggest feeding the most wet food possible..since it helps prevent your cat from being chronically dehydrated..I feed about 50/50 dry and wet. With wet foods, look for recipes with NO grains and as much meat as possible.

Now, some brands I've used and /or would suggest you look into:

with grains: chicken soup for the cat lover's soul (good for the price, hard for me to find), authority (petsmart..most bang-for-your-buck of the foods they sell IMO), nutro (same price point as authority most of the time), california natural and innova (natura pet foods brands), wellness (pricey for what it is), natural balance, halo, Artemis, and nature's logic

without grain: taste of the wild (this is the cheapest bang-for-your-buck grainfree but it does have fish, I'd feed this if I could feed my boys fish), EVO (very calorie dense and expensive, some cats don't tolerate it or core), wellness CORE (VERY expensive), california natural grain free (new, haven't tried, but doesn't have fish), Merrick before grain (haven't tried this either), Origen and Acana (I think these are made in Canada, may be cheaper for you)... BTW beware grain frees with potato high on their list...it is still a carb!

I'd suggest you make use of this site to look at ingredients and basically price the brands above: www.petfooddirect.com I have ordered from them before, but use it to look up ingredients, etc as well.

I'd also suggest that you contact the parent companies of these brands...many will send you samples and/or coupons to try their products. No matter how good a food is, it won't do you any good if your cat won't eat it. ...I found this out after shelling out a lot of cash for wellness canned foods and EVO 95% meat canned foods...cats wouldn't touch them.

Good luck!
Artgecko

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

I read a study recently comparing meat meal to corn gluten meal. The study concluded that both meals provided the same amount of protein but the corn gluten meal was less digestible and increased the mineral requirements. This study has been quoted in vin.com a information website for veterinarians and vet personnel.

I looked up vin.com and my initial impression is so-so. I will need to find out more about them but on the surface, and after reading some of their "complaints", I'm kind of leaning towards putting them in the same category as truthaboutpetfood.com. Still, I would really like to see the article you are referring to.

[/quote] I cannot fathom how we can take a species that has not really evolved much in the last few thousand years and is an obligate carnivore - meaning it must have animal protein - and feed it some cheap substitute. [/quote]

Can you point me to ANY company that uses corn gluten meal as a main protein source? I want to know who they are. I am being serious here.

[/quote] Companies like Hills and Purina have spent thousands of dollars on research to prove corn is a viable ingredient in pet food. The above study I believe was sponsored by Purina or one of the big pet food companies yet the very same company includes corn gluten meal in its foods. I don't need a study to tell me that a cat is an obligate carnivore and that it requires animal protein. Heck, even humans can't even digest corn well. [/quote]

I don't know about the studies done by Hills and Purina. Corn in it's natural state would probably not be so great an ingredient. Of course cats need animal protein. I doubt you will find anyone that disagrees with that. I certainly do not. As far as humans go, we are both probably digesting a derivative of corn as we speak. And digesting it quite nicely I might add.

 

[sweetpea24]

Vin.com is used by vets and vet techs- to really getbinto the 'meat'of the.website, you basically have to pay $600 ayear for a.membership. and you hqve to be a vet. I have access at the cli.if.where I work. The study I was talking about was in one of the threads about feeding cats. When I am on a computer i will try to find it (if i have.time at work) and post it here. Lisa Pierson, the vet who is the author of catinfo.org often participates in these discussions. Many hills foods use corn gluten meal as the first ingredient in their fooods. Some vets defend Medi-cal's use of corn by saying they test each batch for.safety. That's great but.it still shouldn't be fed to cats. The.study I described was sponsored by one of the.big four but I can't remember which one.

Yes there.are.some cats whose state of health.requires a lower protein level, which is usually attained by adding.grains. I won't deny.that. But even some research has found.tht cats.with.crf.shouldn'tbreduce their protein to help reduce muscle wasting. My crf cat does get some of the rx.foods because he is picky but he gets mostly wellness, natural balance, and holistic selects. Some have grains.but have the same protein levels as most foods and lower phosphorus. He is well, has a voracious appetite and his kidney values.are.stable.

Anyway, sorry for the typos, I don't have texting thumbs and they're getting numb!

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Vin.com is used by vets and vet techs- to really getbinto the 'meat'of the.website, you basically have to pay $600 ayear for a.membership. and you hqve to be a vet. I have access at the cli.if.where I work. The study I was talking about was in one of the threads about feeding cats. When I am on a computer i will try to find it (if i have.time at work) and post it here. Lisa Pierson, the vet who is the author of catinfo.org often participates in these discussions. Many hills foods use corn gluten meal as the first ingredient in their fooods. Some vets defend Medi-cal's use of corn by saying they test each batch for.safety. That's great but.it still shouldn't be fed to cats. The.study I described was sponsored by one of the.big four but I can't remember which one.

Yes there.are.some cats whose state of health.requires a lower protein level, which is usually attained by adding.grains. I won't deny.that. But even some research has found.tht cats.with.crf.shouldn'tbreduce their protein to help reduce muscle wasting. My crf cat does get some of the rx.foods because he is picky but he gets mostly wellness, natural balance, and holistic selects. Some have grains.but have the same protein levels as most foods and lower phosphorus. He is well, has a voracious appetite and his kidney values.are.stable.

Anyway, sorry for the typos, I don't have texting thumbs and they're getting numb!

Thanks for clarifying about the website. I was thinking, huh when I was trying to navigate and read it... I would love to get my hands on that study you were talking about. If you ever come across it again will you push a copy my way? Not to worry about typos. I've been dealong with a broken finger for 3 weeks and it's not been pretty

 

[sweetpea24]

Nutromike, here's the abstract for that study I was talking about:

Comparison of corn gluten meal and meat meal as a protein source in dry foods formulated for cats
Am J Vet Res. September 2002;63(9):1247-51.
Masayuki Funaba; Chiho Matsumoto; Kunihiro Matsuki; Ken Gotoh; Masahiro Kaneko; Tsunenori Iriki; Yoshikazu Hatano; Matanobu Abe

Article AbstractOBJECTIVE: To compare


Article AbstractOBJECTIVE: To compare the nutritional value of corn gluten meal (CGM) and meat meal (MM) as a dietary source of protein in dry food formulated for adult cats.

ANIMALS: 8 healthy adult cats (4 males and 4 females).

PROCEDURE: Diets containing CGM or MM as the main protein source were each fed for a 3-week period in a crossover study. Digestibility and nutritional balance experiments were conducted during the last 7 days of each period. Furthermore, freshly voided urine was obtained to measure urinary pH, struvite crystals, and sediment concentrations.

RESULTS: Daily food intake and dry-matter digestibility were significantly higher for the MM diet. Fecal moisture content also was higher for the MM diet. Apparent nitrogen (N) absorption and N retention were higher for the MM diet, even when values were expressed as a percentage to account for differences in N intake. Urinary pH, struvite activity product, number of struvite crystals in urine, and urinary sediment concentrations were not different between diets. Retention of calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium was lower for the CGM diet, and cats lost body calcium and magnesium when fed the CGM diet.

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Meat meal was superior to CGM as a protein source in dry foods formulated for cats, because dry-matter digestibility and N utilization were higher for the MM diet. In addition, net loss of body calcium and magnesium for the CGM diet suggests that mineral requirements increase when CGM is used as a protein source.

End of article abstract.

Let me qualify my previous comments by saying that I realize corn has a purpose in some rx foods such as urine ph (can reduce likelihood of struvite crystals). However, in a maintenance food, I don't see a reason for it.

Here is another abstract:

Evaluation of meat meal, chicken meal, and corn gluten meal as dietary sources of protein in dry cat food
Can J Vet Res. October 2005;69(4):299-304.
Masayuki Funaba1; Yuko Oka; Shinji Kobayashi; Masahiro Kaneko; Hiromi Yamamoto; Kazuhiko Namikawa; Tsunenori Iriki; Yoshikazu Hatano; Matanobu Abe
1Laboratory of Nutrition, Azabu University School of Veterinary Medicine, 1-17-71 Fuchinobe, Sagamihara 229-8501, Japan. [email protected]

Article AbstractThe nutritional value of meat meal (MM), chicken meal (CM), and corn gluten meal (CGM) as dietary sources of protein in dry food formulated for adult cats was evaluated. Twelve healthy adult cats (11 males and 1 female) were used. Dry diets containing MM, CM, or CGM as the main protein source were given for a 3-week period in a 3 x 3 Latin-square design. Digestion and balance experiments were conducted during the last 7 d of each period. In addition, freshly voided urine was taken to determine urinary pH and number of struvite crystals. As compared with the CM diet, dry-matter digestibility was higher and lower for the MM and CGM groups, respectively. Percentages of nitrogen (N) absorption and N retention to N intake were higher in the MM group, and N utilization was not different between the CM group and the CGM group. All cats excreted alkaline urine (pH > 7). Urinary pH, struvite activity product, and number of struvite crystals in urine were lower for the CGM group. There was no difference in retention of calcium and magnesium among the groups. From the point of view of digestibility and N utilization, MM is superior to CGM, and CM is better than or equivalent to CGM as a protein source of dry foods for adult cats. However, when CM is used as a dietary protein source, some manipulation of dietary base excess may be needed to control urinary acid-base balance, because CM contains higher calcium and phosphorus.

End of article abstract.

In reading some of the threads on vin.com, some vets are questioning the rx diets. I find that the whole nutrition issue in addition to the Rx foods vs. OTC foods debate is very interesting and at times, gets heated among the vets. Each side makes excellent points. Often, the debate is about personal experience vs. evidence-based results. INteresting.

 

[kat-toy]

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Nutromike, here's the abstract for that study I was talking about: {article deleted}

Thanks, I learned a lot and it supports what I have read on other websites and speaking to knowledgeable people.

KT