Premature kitten stopped gaining weight and is has now dropped 6 grams today.

[jayangeles]

Hello, I found this forum while trying to google for help for kittens and was hoping maybe someone on here can help me.

My sister's boyfriend's cat had 3 kittens on September 25th prematurely. I'm positive they're premature because they were 57 grams, 64 grams, and 82 grams, with very fine fur and Riley (their mom) was not producing milk. We lost the first kitten (57g) 3 days after he was born. I had been trying to bottle feed them and the two smallest had been dropping. Riley's milk came in on the 3rd or 4th day after the first kitten passed away.

From that point on, the largest kitten grew like a weed (lovingly nicknamed Chunk) and the now smallest kitten began growing faster until almost gaining the same as Chunk. I named this kitten Hiccup. 

Today, they're 11 days old and up until two days ago, everything was going great! Both gained beautifully but the evening of the 9th day, Hiccup's weight gain slowed from 10+ grams a day to 6 grams. Yesterday he gained 4 grams. So far today, he's LOST 6 grams. 

I weigh the babies constantly but only use the evening 10pm weights to compare to see how much they've grown in 24 hours. I keep track of everything, record and write things down constantly. 

In the last few days, I've noticed Hiccup's chest feels different from Chunk's. After googling, I think he might have something called Flat Chested Kitten Syndrome or something called Pectus. I've tried massages but I'm to scared to try a splint incase it makes things worse since I can't tell if the splint would cause the thorax to push into him or move out the way it should be. 

He also seems like he has something similar to swimmer puppy syndrome. I didn't think much of it at first because he's just a kitten so splayed legs wasn't a huge surprise but while Chunk's began to try to figure out how to walk, Hiccup's back legs (by his hip area) seems turned a bit out. 

However, that could just be me worrying to much and panicking.

Hiccup went from 140 grams last night at 10pm to 134 grams as of 4:40pm today. I've tried all throughout today to get him to nurse from a bottle using KMR. I have the liquid can (freshly opened today and the can's experation date was April 2016. I also have the powder form of KMR which I was using when I was trying to bottle feed the first baby that passed. I've had no luck with bottle feeding him. I use the towel to prop his head area up to imitate how he'd be positioned if he was nursing from his mom, I've tried gently pushing the nipple into his mouth and dropping a drop or two in their and he just rolls the end of the nipple on his tongue before moving his head away.

I've tried just setting him in their with mom to make sure he's able to nurse from her and it seems like as soon as Chunk's not nursing, she bails out of the box. She takes care of Hiccup, cleans him up the same as Chunk but nursing-wise, if she were to lay there and Hiccup finds a nipple, he seems to fall asleep when he's on it? He doesn't nurse the same as his brother. 

I'm panicking like crazy. His eyes have just started to crack open at the corners this morning and he purrs and it would absolutely break my heart if I lost another kitten.  He moves around ok, he can lift his head up pretty good and when I set him down on the towel to bottle feed him, he likes to snuggle between my arm and the towel. I want to do everything I can to give this little fighter a better chance at making it.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated! 

 

[slykat12]

I am not any sort of expert on this, but I am commenting to accomplish 2 things, first to bump your thread so an experienced cat person will see it to answer, second to tell you what a great person you are to take on this task.

I do do medicine with humans and weight in human babies is the most important thing at birth rather than gestational age. Premies of all species need to sleep and eat well so they can grow. Also keep the kitten area warm and quiet.

Keep doing what you are doing for the little ones. A vet is always an option too but lets see what others have to say.

 

[catwoman707]

Oh boy...

Okay so, as far as the chest, leave that be for now.

Often times they will grow out fine, by about 4 months old, and much before then, the vet will know if he needs it splinted or wrapped to help change the growth of it.

It doesn't sound extreme the way you described it, so I doubt it is affecting his heart or lungs at this time.

His back legs, well honestly, they will sort of turn out a bit, and as he develops and strengthen them when he is really getting around well, this should be fine.

If you definitely see there is something not right with them, and when it's time to get up and walk rather than scoot, you will know.

If so at that time, you will create something that will not allow his ankles to part any further than a normal standing position, maybe a slight more but this will make his muscles grow correctly rather than outward.

You definitely are describing prematurely developed kids.

This does NOT say that they don't have a decent chance though.

So from what I've read here, they have grown a great deal. Excellent gains too. Losing is NOT an option, have you told him so?

What I don't understand is, has he lost his suction action or interest?

If it seems more that mom is not staying with him to nurse, perhaps she needs to be contained with her kids so she doesn't have the option to leave.

As long as they have mom to nurse from, the bottle is going to be basically not an option.

I recently went through a situation on here with another person who's kids needed to be supplemented badly, but wouldn't accept the bottle, so we went the tube feeding route.

It IS an option but you will have to be good with doing this.

Many are not, but done correctly, it works beautifully.

 

[jayangeles]

Thank you so much for your kind words and the advice you've given!

Their nesting box is in my room which is down two hallways and away from the other rooms, living room and kitchen. I'm not a hermit, just drew the short stick and got the farthest room

The only thing that concerns me about his chest is his breathing. He's not panting or gasping for breath however it is different from his brothers and it's more belly breathing than anything. At first when I used to pick him up or try to massage him, it would stress him out so I stopped messing with him until I thought I might have to bottle feed and instead of squirming and upsetting himself to the point of fast breathing, his breathing didn't really change in pace. He doesn't really cry but when he tries to, it's very faint compared to Chunk's. 

With his legs, at first when I googled about it something called twisted leg syndrome came up so I looked up images to compare and it's nothing that drastic. They just seem bowed out. Course, could just be my worrying and to much googling but thought I'd mention it just incase it was something. 

I have told him, ironically quite often I think I talk to Hiccup more often than my family the last couple of days. Giving "pep talks" and what not. My sister thinks it's hilarious, If I could, before every feeding I'd play "eye of the tiger" just to set the "YOU CAN DO IT" mood, haha. 

He hasn't lost interest because he still searches if I lay him down next to his mom. He'll look all over, he's just a bit slow about it but once he finds it, you can hear him suckle at first and then it's like he just falls asleep or quits. This is new and just started happening today. I've tried holding down Mom for a few minutes so he can nurse but if she moves her back end in any way, he just falls off. 

She's never neglected them, when she first had them and her milk hadn't dropped yet, she'd lay there and show her belly like she was trying to get them to nurse. She's still looking after him and keeping him warm, she just doesn't stay in there. Once Chunk is fed, she's out. 

If tube feeding is where this is heading, I'll try anything. I've wanted to be a vet, my aunt used to be a veterinary technician (now teaches it) but she's been so busy that she hasn't gotten back to me. My grandma breeds dogs and I've helped her welp puppies quite a few times and helping Riley deliver her babies had it's complications (baby 2 had his head stuck at one point, he was born feet first, and the last placenta was stuck for a bit but in the end, 3 babies, 3 placentas were delivered). Kittens are a whole new ball game for me and I apologize for the ramblings and my over-use of commas and of course the panicking. Your guys' help and advice is greatly appreciated!!

 

[jayangeles]

Oh, another question I have. How soon can I take Riley (mom) to get spayed? Babies are 11 days  old today. I'm worried if I wait to long, my family will let her outside before I get the chance to take her in to get spayed. 

 

[catwoman707]

Technically she can be spayed at any time now, however in light of the situation I would hold off for at least a couple more weeks.

She will still be able to nurse them, luckily for her there are only 2, with large litters mom really takes a beating after a spay.

Depending on how you feel about it, she can be spayed even if she got out and got prego again, just need to keep her inside and stay on everyone else about letting her get out.

If she does get out, get her in and spayed asap. Abortion is not the end of the world, and you sound very sensible to me, if you knew and saw what I do, you would understand why I push for spaying, prego or not.

It's sickening to see litters of kittens shipped off to the shelter and killed every single day. In my opinion, after many years of rescue work, while I will never feel "okay" about it, it is what it is, and is a must.

The way you describe his chest is a bit concerning, if you feel it affects his breathing. This is not so good.

Really all you can do is watch and see how he develops. There is nothing a vet can do now anyway actually. Not at 11 days old.

In 2 more weeks of growing, you will know more.

If you can post pics that would be great. Even a video clip if possible. I'd like to see his legs. Chest too actually.

His nursing? He doesn't have a good suction going on. You should be able to pick a nursing baby up and it almost goes POP! haha not literally but yeah, they are VERY attached. Ever seen a momma cat stand up while kids are nursing? They are still attached, that's what suction is normal.

Okay so this weight loss thing is NO good. It takes no time at all to cause him to head downhill, and it's almost impossible to turn it around once it starts.

So rather than the bottle, which I know is a no go, get a needleless syringe, like a 3 ml sized one. Or at least a small one with a tip that points out a bit, not the type where a needle screws onto it, as those don't have a pointy tip but have a recessed tip.

You will need to start supplementing this way. We can start with this and see how well it goes, we need to see a weight gain here.

Warm up the kmr in a very small glass or container. (like a juice glass size) This is because you are going to set the glass with kmr into a hot water filled coffee cup so it stays warm while you are syringing, since it takes some time/patience.

You will still be keeping him tummy side down, wrapped in a towel for better control, and gently scruff a bit to get head up and mouth open, and you will be putting very small amts slowly into his cheek area, wait for him to swallow/breath.

He won't like it, but tough. He needs to get through this period and thrive again.

Be VERY careful and patient, one tiny drop inhaled is all it takes for him to get pneumonia and will die. There is no saving a baby kitten once this happens. The drop in the lungs grows bacteria causing the pneumonia.

Feed 3mls every 3 hours or so. Assuming he does at some time nurse from mom that is.

Weight him now before the first feeding, then again in 12 hours to see his progress/not. If not, increase the amt. We want to see a gain of at least 3 grams in 12 hours, hopefully more.

 

[StefanZ]

 
Oh, another question I have. How soon can I take Riley (mom) to get spayed? Babies are 11 days  old today. I'm worried if I wait to long, my family will let her outside before I get the chance to take her in to get spayed. 

You can do it essentially as soon the kittens are stabilized. 

The usual recommendation is ca 8 weeks, when the kittens are more or less weaned.  But it CAN be done earlier if need be.   Its not recommended, but for example, emergency spayed moms return home and continue to take care of their kittens more or less immediately, before they are healed.  They rest perhaps 24 hours, but sometimes shorter.

Re  Hiccup who falls asleep almost as soon he begins to nurse mom.   You can perhaps try and perk up some energy in him, by smearing some glucose sugar on his gum.  The glucose absorbs directly form mouth to blood.  (thus may be done also with cold kittens)

The brand name may be Dextrose or Dextropur.   If you dont have access to real glucose sugar, you can try with White Caro syrup, or even honey.

This way I do hope he will have more strengh and endurance to nurse a longer while.

Otherwise you can use a dropper or a syringe.  Its easier than a bottle.  But you surely know this already, as you had done some research and also have some practical experiences with puppies and so.

Good luck!

 

[jayangeles]

Thanks again for both your help!

Alright so, after reading both posts I scoured the house for a syringe and found nothing. I even looked to see if we had any from giving our cats amoxicillin almost a year ago (figured I'd could sterilize it in boiling water) and still didn't find anything. The only thing I came up with was a 2ml eye dropper (I think would be what one might call it...I'll take a picture of it). I don't think it'll work but it's something I thought I could run by you incase it could potentially. I might be able to get some syringes tomorrow.

I'll also go take some chest/tummy breathing videos and pictures. 

I do have some mild good news though. I weighed both kittens and Hiccup went from 134 grams to 136 grams. He doesn't make a POP sound and it's not hard to knock him off a teat however his brother Chunk (weighed in at 219 grams this evening) latches on really tight.

I have honey, I don't think I have any White Caro Syrup though. I can see about picking up some tomorrow from the store. For KMR, I have the powder and the liquid kind but the liquid can I bought has is a tan color and when I mix up the powder, it's white. Should I just stick with the powder and ditch the can all together? Actually, now that I think about it, switching between can and powder is probably no good, should I just stick with powder then?

As far as spaying their mom, waiting until the kittens are weaned and stable is a better idea. I just want to make sure she does eventually get spayed because everyone around here seems to think kittens are so cute, we should have more. That's not happening, the complications with the babies we have now is heartbreaking let alone adding to populations around here. In the small town where we live, everyone seems to think vets are overrated and as soon as the cute kitten they bring home starts to scratch on furniture or want outside, they're booted out to the cold. We end up feeding most of the strays in town in our garage just because my grandpa is set in his ways of putting out food. I'm happy to feed them even if they aren't tame, wish we could spay/neuter them. Guess I was to busy trying to deal with the garage cats and never thought to ask my sister's boyfriend if his cat was spayed. 

Alright, off to go take pictures and videos!!

 

[jayangeles]

Alright so it's 3:25am here and I've been waiting for the last few hours for the video I took of Hiccup to upload to youtube so I could link it on here and it FINALLY just did. 

The above post I mentioned stray cats hanging out in our garage which sounds kind of bad, we don't have like a bunch of strays holed up in our garage. It's more like a carport with added rooms...or like a shop but anyways where the garage door should be, their's nothing. It's wide open so that's how they get in. The rooms don't have doors so they just walk in and out as they please. I don't know, I just re-read that post and felt like I should probably explain that a bit so you guys don't think we're hoarding cats, haha. Since they can get in out of the cold or rain and my grandpa puts out food nearby, they've kind of just decided that was a safe place to hang out. 

Anyways, I'm adding a picture of the eye-dropper to see if you guys think that might work if I'm super careful. It's pretty big though, I can pick-up syringes tomorrow if it won't work. I also included a couple pictures of him trying to walk around, I think the video helps more than the pictures. Please excuse my weird froggy voice, I've had a sore throat and a runny noise the last couple of days. I've been using hand sanitizer before handling babies so, no worries

What do you guys think? 

. 

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• jayangeles
• Oct 7, 2014

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• jayangeles
• Oct 7, 2014

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• jayangeles
• Oct 7, 2014

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@JayAngeles -- if you have a cvs pharmacy nearby, they give out free (needleless) syringes when asked. at least they do here in NY state, and our laws here are very strict about anything related to any kind of drugs.

i have two different sized syringes that i got from a cvs pharmacy. the smaller sized one can measure in ml's. when i got the syringes (for my senior cat), i got two of each size. they're very good to have around, in case you need them. i didn't need to use the ones i have until just a week ago, and i'd had them for over a year.

 

[jayangeles]

Thank you! I'll keep that in mind and try to stop by there once they open! Thanks!

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

you're welcome! just ask at the pharmacy counter.

 

[catwoman707]

FYI-you can't give any human viruses to the babies -(and vice versa) so the cold is yours alone

The video is very helpful, and yes, you are correct, this baby does have FCKS (flat chested kitten syndrome)

Another side effect of prematurity.

I can't tell you to what degree it is, he would need to see a vet who is familiar with this. Be choosy when finding the right one, ask before you go what kind of experience the vet has in neonatal babies.

I hope money is not an issue, because I'm pretty certain he will need to be x-rayed.

Depending on how mild or extreme it is will determine treatment/outcome.

Just be aware that if it's bad enough, it may cause death due to restriction of the thorax/lungs/heart.

It helps if he is able to cry too, but he may not have the space to.

Sometimes a toilet paper roll can be modified and used like sort of a vest put on backwards. This is because the rounded front makes it impossible for him to lay directly on his chest while nursing. This may be why he is not nursing well too, it may flatten it even more from the pressure and he is unable to breath well.

His legs are a bit splayed, but this is not a concern now, it's his chest and his weight gain.

He may be an ideal candidate for tube feeding if you are up to it.

The eye dropper will work but I wouldn't use it longer than temp until you can get a syringe, it's just much harder to control the amt put in his mouth, syringes give you total control, and you may consider going ahead and getting the tube too. It's the #5 tube.

You will need a larger syringe, a 10 ml is good.

I would also try to encourage his positioning to lay on his side as often as you can. (I know that one is near impossible!)

Stick with the powder kmr, the liquid is beige color, who knows why but it's normal, but seems to cause more constipation in kittens too. My preference is def. the powder. Plus it will be fresher.

I will use an empty water bottle to make up a bit in that and stored in fridge, simply pour out the amt you need then, heat, and feed. The stored should be used within a day, so don't make too much at once.

 

[catwoman707]

Here is a great, inspiring link for what I menationed about his hind legs and taping them so they are unable to spread out and develop incorrectly.

It is also common for swimmers legs in kittens to have flat chest syndrome too.

http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/health/swimmers/

 

[jayangeles]

Thank you for the link, it's really inspiring to read about a kitten who has a similar situation and pulled through. Gives me more hope for him. 

Regarding vets, do I get a feeding tube there? How soon should I go, do I need to wait a couple more days because he's so young? I'm worried about getting the euthanize advice :/ Any guess on how much an x-ray costs on a neonatal baby?? Is their a price difference compared to an older cat? Will an x-ray this young have any effect on him? 

Where do I find a #5 tube? Do I ask the vet or is it possible to find something like that at a CVS like the syringes? 

When he's laying next to mom or siblings, I try to use her arm to kind of prop him on his side andhold him their so he doesn't fall over. I'm worried mom will jump into the box and lay on him but so far, she hasn't as far as I know. 

Alright, I'll stick with powder, do I stick with just feeding 3ml every 3 hours until Hiccup goes to the vet? 

In 49 minutes, Hiccup will be exactly 12 days old. He's still at 136 grams. I'll try using that eye dropper again. Over night, his littermate went up to 226 grams. Will Hiccup's small size now stunt his growth in any way? 

Thank you again so much for your help!

So, overview of him, he has FCKS, slightly splayed legs, insufficient weight gain/ growth, and was premature. That's everything right? Just wanting to make sure I have it all written down for when I find a vet. 

 

[catwoman707]

 
Thank you for the link, it's really inspiring to read about a kitten who has a similar situation and pulled through. Gives me more hope for him. 

Regarding vets, do I get a feeding tube there? How soon should I go, do I need to wait a couple more days because he's so young? I'm worried about getting the euthanize advice :/ Any guess on how much an x-ray costs on a neonatal baby?? Is their a price difference compared to an older cat? Will an x-ray this young have any effect on him? 

Where do I find a #5 tube? Do I ask the vet or is it possible to find something like that at a CVS like the syringes? 

When he's laying next to mom or siblings, I try to use her arm to kind of prop him on his side andhold him their so he doesn't fall over. I'm worried mom will jump into the box and lay on him but so far, she hasn't as far as I know. 

Alright, I'll stick with powder, do I stick with just feeding 3ml every 3 hours until Hiccup goes to the vet? 

In 49 minutes, Hiccup will be exactly 12 days old. He's still at 136 grams. I'll try using that eye dropper again. Over night, his littermate went up to 226 grams. Will Hiccup's small size now stunt his growth in any way? 

Thank you again so much for your help!

So, overview of him, he has FCKS, slightly splayed legs, insufficient weight gain/ growth, and was premature. That's everything right? Just wanting to make sure I have it all written down for when I find a vet. 

I think it's important he goes now, asap at least due to his breathing issue. 

It should be assessed at just how much his chest is constricting or not.

I believe he will only need one picture done, and it's going to cost the same amt as a big cat.

They will do a side view.

From the start, ask the vet to be real with you but that, unless he has a very poor prognosis or will/is suffering, you plan to do everything you can to get him well again.

Just so he/she understands your intentions. Often times alot of vets are quick to recommend euthanization, but that's them. 

In rescue as I am, we have an entirely different view of things.

Vet will have syringes, tube (you only need one) and if you know approx how premature they were it would be helpful.

One of the last things to develop are the lungs and digestive system. One day early=a week in humans. 

I would continue the 3 mls every 3 hours at this point. 

I want to add this, it's important you realize that this baby was born too soon, and with a weight of 2 ounces, his prognosis wasn't so good already.

When we put alot of time and energy/emotions in the attempt to save a baby, it hurts your heart even worse than the loss of another.

Just keep focused, but understand too that some may get through it and be fine, while others just won't no matter what you do.

My biggest concerns of course are breathing, etc from chest constriction, but his lack of weight gain is huge. Without this there is no saving his already underdeveloped body.

Reread what you posted about the weights now, and it doesn't look so good.

I'm not in any way trying to be discouraging, ever, nor send off a negative attitude. Trust me, I have gone to extreme lengths to save babies, and cats like nobody I know!

I just don't want you to be so hopeful that you lose perspective of the entire picture.

I want nothing more than to help get you through this and see things get back on track!!

I will be watching for your posts/updates.

 

[jayangeles]

I completely understand where you are coming from and I know it's all from a good place. You along with others on this site have helped me more in the past day than anything I've done in the past week and for that I am EXTREMELY grateful!! I'm happy to find someone who will give me straight honest answers and be supportive during this time. I'm so very thankful I came across this site or who knows where I'd be with Hiccup.

I bought a syringe and gave him 3ml at 3:30pm. It took about half an hour to get it all down, I'm hoping that's not to fast. He seemed ok about it. No bubbles came out of the nose and his breathing stayed at a fairly stable pace, no racing inbetween swallows or gasping. Figure I'll update in a few hours on how he's doing with that. I weighed him before I fed him and then again after, he was 135g before and 136g after. I put him back in with his mom and littermate after he was fed, is that alright? She cleans him but should I try to stimulate him to eliminate before putting him back in there with her?

And again, you're not discouraging nor sending a negative attitude, you're being real and honest about the situation. That's all I can ask for and I thank you for it

 

[catwoman707]

Good, I just wanted to be sure it came across the way it was meant.

I think 1/2 hour is okay. If you can do this every 3 hours and get some weight gain going again, that will help alot, it's sorta like whatever his chances are of making it may be, every day he does not gain weight is mgiving him even less of a chance.

He REALLY needs to put a good amt on and asap, but of course you don't want to overfeed him either.

Let's see how he does from here.

Glad to be able to help

 

[jayangeles]

Thought I'd do a quick update on Hiccup's progress. Been syringe feeding him 3ml every 3 hours for the past twelve hours and he's gone from 136 grams to 141 grams as of 10 minutes ago New high weight for him. 

I'm not sure how much he nurses from mom in between the feedings I give him, is 3ml every 3 hours enough for him to continue to grow on? I'm so happy he's beginning to put on weight again!! 

 

 

[StefanZ]

 
I'm not sure how much he nurses from mom in between the feedings I give him, is 3ml every 3 hours enough for him to continue to grow on? I'm so happy he's beginning to put on weight again!! 

 

I think this was said with the understatement he also got some from the mom, If I understood Catwomans advice here.  And Which I think he does.   

For an unstable, not yet stabilized orphaned kitten I would otherwise say  a little tighter intervalls, perhaps 1,5-2   hour.   I think Catwoman would agree.

The standard advice for every three hours is for stabilized, safe, healthy kittens.  These will also take more than 3 ml at a good feeding.

Im happy with you, hurray for Hiccup!   Go on forward, Hiccup!