Post-trap & Spay Question

[ciaostacia]

Hi, everyone! I'm currently feeling a little anxious about a dilemma I have, and I'm hoping to get your advice!

There are three cats we have been feeding in our backyard for some time. One is an adult male, one is an adult female who looks like she's around a year old (at the oldest), and one is their kitten who looks about five months old. We are finally trapping them tonight to get them spayed and neutered tomorrow (yay!), and I had planned on having the kitten recover in our spare bedroom with plans to eventually adopt her (we also have two other cats) and release mom and dad. However, as I've been watching them the past few days, I've started to become worried that the mom and kitten are bonded and that it would be traumatic to break them up. The mom is skittish but has slowly started to come up to me the past few months, but I'm worried that she wouldn't want to be tamed. I don't know how she is doing as far as finding food on her own because she was small when we first starting feeding her and was clearly very, very hungry. However, I hate to also return the kitten to a life as a feral when she could live a longer, safter, healthier and happier life with us. What to do? Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Willowy]

Are you able to keep both of them indoors? If so, even if the mama cat never really gets tame, she can adjust to living indoors. Many people here have indoor ferals who adjusted well.

But, if her kitten is friendly, I bet she'd tame fairly quickly .

 

[ciaostacia]

Are you able to keep both of them indoors? If so, even if the mama cat never really gets tame, she can adjust to living indoors. Many people here have indoor ferals who adjusted well.

But, if her kitten is friendly, I bet she'd tame fairly quickly .

Ah, that's the other option I can't decide on! We had four cats about a year ago when we rescued a stray cat, and I will admit, I did think at the time, "Wow, four cats might be my limit!" But it definitely seems like an option we may have to consider.

 

[Jcatbird]

BTW We love photos if you can get them.

 

[Jcatbird]

Please do consider it if you can give good care. I have brought in more than four with no problems. It does take time to integrate new kitties into a family but it sounds like you already know about that. I would guess that the three are a family and I totally understand that it is hard to break them up if Mom and baby are bonded. I find the bonds between some can be very strong and quite beautiful to see. The mothers often do follow the example of trust they see in their babies. W Willowy is absolutely right. Please keep us posted. I think it wonderful you are helping these kitties!

 

[ciaostacia]

Please do consider it if you can give good care. I have brought in more than four with no problems. It does take time to integrate new kitties into a family but it sounds like you already know about that. I would guess that the three are a family and I totally understand that it is hard to break them up if Mom and baby are bonded. I find the bonds between some can be very strong and quite beautiful to see. The mothers often do follow the example of trust they see in their babies. W Willowy is absolutely right. Please keep us posted. I think it wonderful you are helping these kitties!

Thank you so much for your advice! I don't think we would be able to bring in the dad because he is the archenemy of one of our cats, but both mom and baby seem like a good possibility.

Do you have any advice on how to socialize the two of them? I've done a lot of research on socializing feral kittens, but I'm not sure how to approach it with mom and baby together. I have a kitten playpen set up in our spare room for Baby to recover in, but do I put mom in there at the same time? I worry a little about how mom will react as I try to get Baby used to me. Any advice is appreciated!!

Also, we caught them about an hour ago (woohoo!!), but I will upload pics tomorrow after their surgeries!

 

[Jcatbird]

Great catch!
If it were me, I would start out with Mother and baby together. That may or may not work but I would try it. The younger the baby, the quicker they will come to you even if Mom says no. Moms often see their babies trusting a human and will learn from the baby to do the same. Food is your best lure to start with. All meat baby food is a great lure for both. I have even socialized older feral Toms by using food. I suggest you post a lot about their behavior so advice can be adjusted as you go but for now start by putting the food with the kitties and just lay quietly in the room while they eat. If they will eat with you present then you can gradually move closer to where they are. Every couple of feedings try to get a little closer. If Mom accepts this then baby will probably get curious about you. As things move along you will start sitting right by the food. You can then start trying to use a wand toy to get the baby to play and also use it to try and touch them. If that works then you can slowly put your hand nearer to them until you can touch them. A brush may be used to stroke them too. You can also try hand feeding them and then eventually touching them. If having them in the playpen makes it difficult to work with them you can try using a small room like a bathroom. It needs to be a room where they don’t have a place to hide. If it is somewhere like a bedroom, you have to block them from getting under things like the bed.
This really is going to be a day by day process so I don’t want to leap too far ahead. I’d like for you to write in with updates as often as you can. Lots of people here can help you get this accomplished and I already have your thread in my watch so I should be getting alerts when you post. You can always do a quote to get my attention or type @and jcatbird to get my attention. You can also send me a message if you need to find help. You came to a great place to find assistance from lots of experienced people. I’m sure W Willowy will be back to help and there are others like @kittychick catsknowme @surya and a host of others who can offer their experience. I’m also going to tag your ID on another thread to see if I can get some more support here for you. Bravo for being a kitty guardian! We need lots more people like you!

 

[ciaostacia]

Great catch!
If it were me, I would start out with Mother and baby together. That may or may not work but I would try it. The younger the baby, the quicker they will come to you even if Mom says no. Moms often see their babies trusting a human and will learn from the baby to do the same. Food is your best lure to start with. All meat baby food is a great lure for both. I have even socialized older feral Toms by using food. I suggest you post a lot about their behavior so advice can be adjusted as you go but for now start by putting the food with the kitties and just lay quietly in the room while they eat. If they will eat with you present then you can gradually move closer to where they are. Every couple of feedings try to get a little closer. If Mom accepts this then baby will probably get curious about you. As things move along you will start sitting right by the food. You can then start trying to use a wand toy to get the baby to play and also use it to try and touch them. If that works then you can slowly put your hand nearer to them until you can touch them. A brush may be used to stroke them too. You can also try hand feeding them and then eventually touching them. If having them in the playpen makes it difficult to work with them you can try using a small room like a bathroom. It needs to be a room where they don’t have a place to hide. If it is somewhere like a bedroom, you have to block them from getting under things like the bed.
This really is going to be a day by day process so I don’t want to leap too far ahead. I’d like for you to write in with updates as often as you can. Lots of people here can help you get this accomplished and I already have your thread in my watch so I should be getting alerts when you post. You can always do a quote to get my attention or type @and jcatbird to get my attention. You can also send me a message if you need to find help. You came to a great place to find assistance from lots of experienced people. I’m sure W Willowy will be back to help and there are others like @kittychick catsknowme @surya and a host of others who can offer their experience. I’m also going to tag your ID on another thread to see if I can get some more support here for you. Bravo for being a kitty guardian! We need lots more people like you!

Thank you so much for all the great info! I will keep you updated!

 

[catsknowme]

Congratulations on successful trapping!! You have been given great advice thus far so I will wait for updates on how things are going. The dad cat may (should) have a change in disposition once those tomcat hormones dissipate.

 

[NY cat man]

That's great that you were able to catch them. I can only echo the excellent advice already given to you, and wish you the best. There is no clock running on the socialization process, and patience is the watchword.

 

[rubysmama]

I don't purr-sonally have any experience with feral cats, but I love reading this forum and following the socialization process. Thanks for all you're doing for them. Congrats on catching them, and arranging their spay/neuters. Keep us updated on their progress. I may not post much, but I'll be reading and cheering you on from behind the scenes.

 

[ciaostacia]

Hi, everyone! Thank you so much for all the support! It means a lot, especially because it's been a crazy day!

I dropped off mama (her name is Bunny) and Baby (her name is Baby for now) with no issues this morning and picked them up this afternoon. Bunny, as expected, was a little out of it, but Baby started running around her cage a bit as soon as we got in the car. Thank goodness I took her in today because poor Baby, who is only about 5 months old, was pregnant!

Anyway, after the vet tech's advice, I decided to keep them separated for a few days while they recover. I had a kitten pen all set up for Baby in our spare room with a little food, water, a small literbox, and a covered bed to hide in. We got her to go in the playpen from the trap, but it was a scary first few minutes because she started running into all the walls trying to get out! I was not expecting that and it definitely threw me for a loop. We covered the pen with a sheet, and she's been hiding behind the bed since.

After Baby's episode, we decided not to move Bunny into her own kitten pen (we have an extra), and so she is recovering for tonight in her trap. However, I can't imagine keeping her in there and having her poo and pee herself, so tomorrow I am going to pick up a dog crate like this from my MIL and set her up in there for the few days she is recovering:

After she's had a few days to let her stitches heal, we'll assess from there about whether to move her or keep her in there a little longer. My plan for Baby is to give her another day or two to get used to her surroundings, and then try seeing how she responds without the sheet covering her pen.

It has been a much more emotionally draining day than I thought it would be, so again, thank you so much if you read this and especially if you have any advice or feedback! It was definitely one of those days where I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

Jcatbird catsknowme

 

[Jcatbird]

You did great! If the vet thinks they are better separated, follow the advice. Covering the pen was perfect and the kitty reaction at first is not abnormal. I have had kitties stay in the litter box for the first couple of days because they were scared. Every kitty is different so some of this is going to be responding to individual reactions and needs. I would leave the pen covered unless working on feeding, visiting, water or box for a couple of days and then just try raising one small area at a time. Gradually increase the spaces uncovered over a few days so as not to make baby nervous. If Baby does okay with it uncovered , great! If Baby needs it covered partially for longer, also fine.

The crate for Bunny is great. I would cover it at first too. A night in the trap is not unheard of but it isn’t a place I would want her to stay much longer than that. There are some instances with the TNR process where another day occurs. Yes, she will pee and poo. Put some newspaper or old towels etc. under the trap. I don’t know if you can stick some shredded paper in it but that will work. She’ll use it to cover the pee. A piece of cardboard under the trap would help. For future reference, you can buy puppy pee pads ( even dollar stores usually have them) and put those in the trap before catching kitties. You might be able to push one into the trap between the mesh of the trap or, if you think you can safely open one end, into the end. Bunny is an older kitty so she may not run into the sides of a pen. It’s possible she may understand the limits. We can never be totally sure how any kitty will react at first.

I am sure you are totally exhausted and I know it was draining. I’m so sorry it was rough for you but you did a great thing! It would have been really hard on Baby to have kittens so young and the kittens would have faced a hard life as ferals. It would not have been a good experience. Thank goodness Bunny wasn’t pregnant too. I’m kind of surprised she wasn’t. You stopped her from living an endless cycle of struggling to survive and provide for one litter after another. I have always said that kitty guardians are kitty heros. You are a hero. You’re actually handling a of this beautifully!

 

[ciaostacia]

You did great! If the vet thinks they are better separated, follow the advice. Covering the pen was perfect and the kitty reaction at first is not abnormal. I have had kitties stay in the litter box for the first couple of days because they were scared. Every kitty is different so some of this is going to be responding to individual reactions and needs. I would leave the pen covered unless working on feeding, visiting, water or box for a couple of days and then just try raising one small area at a time. Gradually increase the spaces uncovered over a few days so as not to make baby nervous. If Baby does okay with it uncovered , great! If Baby needs it covered partially for longer, also fine.

The crate for Bunny is great. I would cover it at first too. A night in the trap is not unheard of but it isn’t a place I would want her to stay much longer than that. There are some instances with the TNR process where another day occurs. Yes, she will pee and poo. Put some newspaper or old towels etc. under the trap. I don’t know if you can stick some shredded paper in it but that will work. She’ll use it to cover the pee. A piece of cardboard under the trap would help. For future reference, you can buy puppy pee pads ( even dollar stores usually have them) and put those in the trap before catching kitties. You might be able to push one into the trap between the mesh of the trap or, if you think you can safely open one end, into the end. Bunny is an older kitty so she may not run into the sides of a pen. It’s possible she may understand the limits. We can never be totally sure how any kitty will react at first.

I am sure you are totally exhausted and I know it was draining. I’m so sorry it was rough for you but you did a great thing! It would have been really hard on Baby to have kittens so young and the kittens would have faced a hard life as ferals. It would not have been a good experience. Thank goodness Bunny wasn’t pregnant too. I’m kind of surprised she wasn’t. You stopped her from living an endless cycle of struggling to survive and provide for one litter after another. I have always said that kitty guardians are kitty heros. You are a hero. You’re actually handling a of this beautifully!

Thank you for all of this! It definitely made me feel better.

Bunny situation tonight definitely isn't ideal, but luckily the vet put some pee pads in the trap and we have a towel and a mat underneath. She also ate a little food earlier, so that's good!

Cross your fingers for me that Bunny's transfer into the crate tomorrow goes smoothly! I'll give you an update tomorrow!

 

[Jcatbird]

If you put a box or carrier inside the crate, she will probably go into it to hide. You may have to encourage her to leave the trap but she may also rush out. I always open the trap inside the edge of door of the crate but block the rest of the door with a piece of cardboard that I can quickly slide away. I shut the door with the cardboard in place but latch it after sliding the cardboard out. Chances are that she will go straight to the farthest point away from you but just make sure she doesn’t turn back towards the crate door. Make sure doors to the room the crate is in are closed just in case she does slip out. You don’t want her running through your house or getting outside yet. I’m sure it will go just fine. Thanks for the update! I look forward to hearing again.

 

[catsknowme]

Yay! Baby's and Bunny's futures are so much brighter now, thanks to you! You have shown excellent instincts in covering the recovery cage. Jcatbird gives wonderful advice that is based on wisdom gained from experience. Please continue to keep us updated!

 

[Jcatbird]

I hope the Bunny transfer went okay! By the way, I love the name Bunny. Many years ago I had a cat named Rabbit.

 

[ciaostacia]

I hope the Bunny transfer went okay! By the way, I love the name Bunny. Many years ago I had a cat named Rabbit.

Thanks! Luckily, Bunny's transfer went nice and smooth, and she seems to have settled in her new space.

Baby, on the other hand, had a bit of a wild night. We heard her crying last night and went into the room this morning to find she had knocked off the sheets that were covering her pen and had made a mess of it once again. My SO suggested we name her Hurricane.

Up until today, I've just been leaving the food in there for them to eat, but today starts the "You can only eat with me sitting with you" strategy. I sat far away from Bunny, but she didn't eat anything, so I'm going to try again in a couple of hours. I also tried to start getting Baby used to my hand by just placing it near her (in a leather glove), but she was NOT having it! I left it there so that she could just get used to the presence, but she was growling almost the whole time (as well as swatting and biting at times). Needless to say, she didn't eat either. Hopefully try #2 later today will be a little bit better.

Baby also, as far I can tell, hasn't used the bathroom since we brought her home. I'm going to cross my fingers that she uses the litterbox at some point today, but if not, I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and see what they say.

Here's a pic of poor Bunny last night looking like, "Leave me alone!" I couldn't get a good pic of Baby, but I'll try again today!

 

[Jcatbird]

Poor Bunny and baby. If they won’t eat with you there then just leave it for them right now. They need to eat. Just keep trying the sitting with them each feeding. It’s too early to expect much.
If you can offer Baby some very wet food then maybe she’ll potty. In a pinch I buy cans of chicken in water and give them that. It isn’t a balanced diet for long term but may work to get them started.
Mom is just beautiful! I love the spotting on her fur.
Hurricane huh? She’s just scared and probably looking for Mom. I don’t know if they are in the same room but that could either cause upset or stop it. You could try shifting things around if the Hurricane continues to rage. It may not seem like it but... so far, so good!

 

[ciaostacia]

Poor Bunny and baby. If they won’t eat with you there then just leave it for them right now. They need to eat. Just keep trying the sitting with them each feeding. It’s too early to expect much.
If you can offer Baby some very wet food then maybe she’ll potty. In a pinch I buy cans of chicken in water and give them that. It isn’t a balanced diet for long term but may work to get them started.
Mom is just beautiful! I love the spotting on her fur.
Hurricane huh? She’s just scared and probably looking for Mom. I don’t know if they are in the same room but that could either cause upset or stop it. You could try shifting things around if the Hurricane continues to rage. It may not seem like it but... so far, so good!

Ah, you're totally right about the food. I think I just read too much online of what to do and worry that I'm not doing all of it! I left food in with them a few hours ago, and the chicken is a great idea! I gave them a little tuna topper to their wet food yesterday, but I'll try the chicken for tonight's feeding!

Baby is in the same room as Bunny. If she has another run-around episode tonight, I'm going to reassess their pen/crate situation.

Thank you again for all of your advice and support! You have no idea how much it means!!