Poppy

[GoldyCat]

I had another thought about her not using the litter box. What kind of litter do you use? She may not like the feel of the litter on her poor little toes. I know my cats do less digging for pee than for poop. In fact, I have two or three who will hop into the litter box, pee on top of the litter, and hop out, all without so much as scratching at the litter. They are much more vigorous digging a hole for the poop and covering it up.

 

[poppy2507]

Earlier messages have dealt with the litter issue. At the suggestion of others here, I switched to Cat Attract + the Attractant. This resulted in consistent use of the litterbox for urination, but Poppy still (including earlier this morning) seems to have no control over where / when she poops. She doesn't dig much in the litter even to cover urination, so I have only a thin layer of litter in the box. I've read to do this, so the cat's paws don't sink too far into the litter. She seems fine with this for urination. Me, too.

I will slowly move back to a less expensive litter, but will be mindful of Poppy's being declawed, and will use a soft litter. I've used wheat with past cats (brand "S'wheat") so will go back to using this gradually.

I can't physically undo the declawing. I'm suspecting it was done years ago by the first owner, and given the way she runs around, jumps on and off the bed, etc. she doesn't appear to be in physical pain from this. I can't discount psychological / emotional effects from this, though, and resulting litterbox avoidance.

She is clearly distressed by her "pooping accidents" and meows to let me know it's happened. Once I move to clean up, she dives under the nearest chair or otherwise hides, to avoid punishment, I am assuming. She is never punished here, although I suspect by her distress followed by immediate hiding that she was yelled at / physically punished in her previous home. I always make a positive "fuss" when she has used the litterbox, praising this.

I'm feeling that I am fighting on too many fronts: her inappropriate elimination outside the box (just for poop now, not urine), the possibility that the decision to use Restoralax was a wrong one, the physical effect of Restoralax on her, the probability that punishment was inflicted on her in the past for inappropriate litterbox behaviour, her lack of comfort with and trust in being cuddled, her supposed petting aggression, her being dumped at SPCA by two previous owners, the "rough-housing" engaged in by her first owner (as per the wife who dumped Poppy at SPCA in the first place)...

This little cat has way to much baggage to carry from her past. I will have to just take away as much of her burden as I can.

What I can do is stop the Restoralax, first thing. Judging by the consistency of the feces, she doesn't need a laxative. I just have to wait for the laxative to clear her system, and see what happens when nature takes over. And I can continue to reassure her, cuddle her as she permits and encourage longer periods of interaction, and wait her out.

All I can do is keep learning as much as I can about caring for and living with her. Too bad cats can't just have a chat with a psychologist and resolve their issues that way! She's quite comfortable lying on a couch!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

You know, there are actually "cat whisperers" out there.  You just have to find them.  And there are certainly Animal Behaviorist.  Living in Toronto, you probably have some in your area

 

[poppy2507]

Just to update re Poppy: I've now ended the foster period with SPCA, and adopted Poppy. She is mine officially, legally. I spoke with the SPCA vet and behaviour consultant the day I went in to sign adoption papers, and there is not really much more they can add re her litterbox behaviour. Just got a repetition of the many suggestions here.

Poppy is consistently using the litterbox for urination. She showed a very clear preference for having the box in the hall, despite my efforts to move it gradually to the privacy of the utility closet. She "annointed" my new rug when I put the box in the closet, but has gone back to 100% success using the box for urination, once I listened to her and moved it back to the hallway. Fortunately, the box doesn't smell at all, so I am learning to live with a litterbox outside my bathroom door. There's just Poppy and me living here, so I will accept her decision.

I reduced, then stopped, the Restoralax to see if she really needed it. The SPCA vet told me Poppy "should" be pooping every day. I know of many cats who don't do that, who go maybe every other day or every 3rd day, so I'm not expecting behaviour from Poppy that other cats don't show. But I have re-started the laxative since I've not found any evidence of her eliminating going into day 4. She is clearly not in any distress, eats well, sleeps a lot as most cats do, but my personal feeling is that the constipation is of long standing, for whatever reason, and I will need to regulate her diet. Don't know which of many suggestions I will follow there. I've read about feeding a bit of pumpkin to increase fibre. The SPCA vet suggested a dry food that, when I checked, is $38 for an 8-pound bag (way out of the question financially). I'm not a fan of dry food for cats. But I need to manage the constipation, which seems to be a chronic issue. Any suggestions here?

Re her behaviour - which SPCA called "petting aggression" - Poppy is more and more relaxed every day. She has started to approach me, will tolerate being held for several seconds, loves her belly rubs and loves to be petted for short periods. I have no concern at all about her standoffish behaviour or her skittishness, viewing it as a natural reaction to many new environments, to long periods in a cage at SPCA, 3 rejections (I thought only 2, but learned she actually has had 3 previous owners). What cat wouldn't be wary of yet another home, yet another person to cope with?

So, the issues now are apparently chronic constipation, pooping outside the box, and her panic when she feels a bowel movement coming on. Still have to deal with that. But at least she is now mine, not the property of SPCA. Lovely little cat, and I'm delighted to have her!

 

[vball91]

Congratulations on officially adopting Poppy! It sounds like you're on the track with her, and she is learning to trust you. Your patience is being rewarded. I hope her constipation/pooping outside the box issues resolve soon.

 

[whaler]

it is great to hear that you are now officially Poppys parent.

thank you for everything you are doing for her - she could not have asked for a better parent!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Congratulations on officially adopting Poppy

.

Yes, pumpkin is good for constipation, as you have already read.  And canned food is definitely better, especially for chronically constipated cats, simply because there is so much more moisture in it.  So, if you don't want to start up the Restoralax again, you could try adding about 1 t canned pumpkin to her canned food 3 times a day to see if that helps her (or depending on how many times per day you feed her, a total of 1 T per day) 

So, are you back to just having one litter box, or do you have the other one hiding behind a plant in your front room?  Since you are now used to one in your hallway, I'm thinking you can get used to another one somewhere else (if you aren't already

).  Did you already try putting it right in the middle of your living room where she pooped that time?  If so, what happened?  If not, are you going to try it?  

If I were to have a cat going outside the box, I would much rather have it be poop than pee...so much easier to find...AND clean up! 

 

[feralvr]

Congratulations on officially adopting Poppy :heart3: .

Yes, pumpkin is good for constipation, as you have already read.  And canned food is definitely better, especially for chronically constipated cats, simply because there is so much more moisture in it.  So, if you don't want to start up the Restoralax again, you could try adding about 1 t canned pumpkin to her canned food 3 times a day to see if that helps her (or depending on how many times per day you feed her, a total of 1 T per day) 

So, are you back to just having one litter box, or do you have the other one hiding behind a plant in your front room?  Since you are now used to one in your hallway, I'm thinking you can get used to another one somewhere else (if you aren't already :lol3: ).  Did you already try putting it right in the middle of your living room where she pooped that time?  If so, what happened?  If not, are you going to try it?  

If I were to have a cat going outside the box, I would much rather have it be poop than pee...so much easier to find...AND clean up! 

I love this post from Sally and this is exactly what I wanted to say!!! Canned pumpkin is a must in my house. AND the comment about preferring poop out of the box accidents rather than pee. Much easier to clean up than cat pee. :nod: I do hope you will put out quite a few litter boxes. It will really work even if it is only temporary. Congratulations on officially adopting Poppy!!!

 

[poppy2507]

Not much progress on the "pooping" issue. I've pretty much decided that Poppy's dislike is of the box, as well as the litter in it, for pooping purposes. I'm putting down puppy training pads now in her poop areas, rather than litterboxes all over the place, hoping to be able to at least clean up more easily. I'm also thinking, if she dislikes stepping into the box to poop, she might more easily go on a flat surface covered by a training pad.

For the most part, she is trying to use moppable floor rather than carpet, although I don't think she's pooped twice in the same place, so we don't yet have a Poppy-designated spot for poop. She still seems to "poop on the run" as if she is surprised / scared when the urge strikes, and she still tears around here like something bad is chasing her trying to leave the poop behind. She is still distressed once the deposit is left somewhere, but slowly the terror-stricken dash is giving way to still evident but lesser and more short-lived distress. She doesn't seem to hide so desperately now.

She is never yelled at or punished in any way. I just clean up, and make it a non-issue.

We've now successfully moved the "peeing" litter box out of the hall, back into the utility cupboard where I originally wanted it to be (out of the way for me, and giving her some privacy), and Poppy is consistently using that box for "pee" purposes, bless her heart. The door to the cupboard is left a little bit open, and she just nose-butts or paw-flips her way into the cupboard. I knew she was a smart little girl! She spends only a nanosecond in the box, often doesn't stay long enough to cover what she's left there, but still ... she's using the box. She also sometimes hides after she has used the box to pee. Makes me wonder what on earth her life was like before she landed here?

The so-called petting aggression has disappeared. Poppy still doesn't like to be held for any length of time, but loves a gentle belly rub, loves to be petted and stroked, I've started T-Touch gentle massage and she loves that. When I pick her up, which I do frequently over the day, she stays with me for a few seconds, but when she wants away, I let her go. For the few seconds she is with me, she flops her head over my arm or leans her head against me, and seems quite content. The "holding sessions" are short-lived so far, but not resisted at all.

No eating problem - she comes when called for meals, or lets me know with a tiny "mew" that she's hungry and wants fed, or she simply sits in front of her food station. A broad hint!

I stopped the Restoralax for a time, but started up at 1/8 tsp twice daily a few days ago, with no success. Will go back to the vet-prescribed 1/4 tsp twice daily for a time. I've also started pumpkin mixed into her food twice a day, but read so much conflicting info online re dosage, I think I started too low at 1/2 tsp each meal. I will increase the pumpkin, and try to decrease the Restoralax back to 1/8 tsp gradually if the increased pumpkin works. I'm hoping the pumpkin will sort of take over, and I'll be able to reduce or eliminate the Restoralax.

If that doesn't work, can I safely give Restoralax forever, 1/4 tsp twice daily, on a daily basis? Is it more laxative or stool softener? Again, I read so much conflicting info online. I'm not comfortable giving unnecessary meds long-term, but can Restoralax safely be given life-long at a total of 1/2 tsp daily, split between two meals? Poppy is only 5, so that's a long time to come! She's fed 3 times a day, but the Restoralax is given at breakfast and dinner only. No Restoralax at lunch.

We've a long way to go to get the "poop" issue settled, I know. I'd be content if she would designate one spot as her preferred location. I can use training pads there and would gladly clean up after her forever. The socialization and affection is coming along, and she has started to play more. But all in all, I am delighted to have this little furball with me! I knew the day I brought her home that she would be with me forever. I didn't consider her a "foster" from Day One, but told her she'd found her forever-home then. (SPCA called her a foster, but I didn't.)

Can you please confirm for me the safety of daily Restoralax life-long, if that's what we come to? Many thanks for the support Poppy and I have had here.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I think using the Restoralax for, say, 10 years, might be a question for your Vet, but my understand is that it would be safe to use forever.  My Sven (RIP) was on it for more than 2 years before CRF took him.  I gave him 1/4 teaspoon twice daily too.  I think of it as more of a stool softener then a laxative, personally, but I guess it's really both.

 

Poor little Poppy.  I wonder what on earth happened to her to cause her to be so afraid when she poops?  Well, bless you for loving her and helping her as best as you can

.  Won't it be wonderful that one day that she steps into her box and leaves you a little poopy gift in there

I'll be waiting for that update

 

[feralvr]

I don't have any experience with long term Restoralax or Miralax. I bet there are some threads in the Health Forum on the subject.

I was wondering something. I have heard and know of a cat or two who prefer to poop in a very low sided litterbox with absolutely no litter inside. It always surprises me how some cats have such odd preferences. To me, though, it sounds like Poppy is running from the "pain" of pooping due to her constipation?? :dk: Poor thing probably has had a history of this problem and it has caused her much pain and psychological trauma over having to poop. I do think the Miralax will help her out and also hope that someday she will surprise you with a poop in the box. :cross:

 

[poppy2507]

Red letter day! Break out the champagne! No, it's not world peace being declared ... Poppy has pooped in the litter box!!! First time in the box in over a month, since she first came home.

I know it's once in a row, and I know I might get out-of-box experiences for a while yet, but today is a red letter day!

I saw the signs of an impending "crisis" - Poppy was skittering around the place, announcing her need to poop and looking for a place to do it. I went into the shower to get out of her way, leave her free to go, and when I came back out of the shower, I did Poop Patrol, looking to clean up. Poppy was hiding under a chair, waiting to be punished, I guess. Last place I looked was the cupboard where the box is, and WOW! A goodly deposit. Well done, Poppy!

She got treats, 15 minutes of praise and petting and belly rubs, I must have said "good girl! good Poppy! Poppy's a sweetie!" maybe a million times. Poppy knew I was well and truly pleased with her, even if she didn't know by then what she'd done to deserve the praise and cuddles. I know it's the first time, maybe there will be more "accidents" to come, but after more than a month ... well, I feel like a worried Mom who just got good news for the first time in a long while.

If I had champagne in the house, I would be uncorking it! Today, things are all good!

 

[poppy2507]

This is hysterical: I just posted a minute ago re Poppy's success. Well, she kept checking back at the cupboard, and has followed me from room to room here, seeming to be worried. I had cleaned the box earlier, and discovered her sucess there, but took another look to see what had her so concerned.

She had used the box again - this time just water. Don't know this girl's thinking yet. I do know she seems frightened after litter box use all the time, so I cleaned the box again and praised her all over the place.

Wish I could find her previous owners and give them a piece of my mind for scaring a cat so much she goes into hiding or gets all scared at normal litterbox behaviour! I am convinced there is nothing physically wrong with this little furball, and her fear surrounding box behaviour is all human-created.

Have to work on convincing Poppy she is a sweetheart for using the box, and using the box is normal!

 

[vball91]

Hooray for Poppy! Yes, let's hope for more of these "accidents". You're doing such a great job with Poppy. I don't know anything about long term use of Restoralax, but I hope the pumpkin helps, so you don't have to use it long term. Hugs.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Job well done, Poppy!

 

[poppy2507]

Update: Poppy has been doing amazingly well! I realized a while back that I was becoming obsessed with the "poop" issue, and was probably driving this little girl crazy with litterboxes and puppy training pads all over the place, so I decided to put the issue on hold for a while, and see how Poppy sorted things herself.

The training pads didn't work as I'd hoped. I put a pad wherever she pooped, hoping she would think as long as there was a training pad, it was safe to go there. Had the opposite effect: wherever I put a training pad, she DIDN'T go there. Took it as a sign, I guess, that spot was off limits. I have a good, inexpensive spray that takes odour and stain out of carpet, so I didn't get bothered if she used the living-room carpet. And everywhere else in my home is "moppable" floor, so I just decided to be pleased she consistently uses the litterbox for pee - the odour is harder to eliminate than poop. And I told myself, and told Poppy, she could poop wherever she felt the need, so long as she pooped. I still block off places difficult for me to get at to clean, and she doesn't go there.

Where we're at now: Poppy still "skitters away" after pooping, and sometimes also after she pees in the litterbox, but she is not so terrified as she once was. I tried to stay away until she settled down again for a while, finding that if I approached her to reassure her, she saw it as a threat and got more scared. Now she settles more quickly and I calm her a bit just with my voice first, then after a bit I approach to pet her. She's fine with that.

Now that the weather is warmer here, I open the door to the balcony in the mornings. Poppy has discovered a whole new world! The balcony is closed in - more like a little sunroom - no spaces for her to tumble from (I'm on the 25th floor), so quite safe for her. Poppy loves the big chair out there, and has appointed herself to Pigeon Patrol. She happily jumps at the windows on the balcony to scare away any pigeons that light on the ledge.

I've decreased the Restoralax to 1/4 teaspoon 6 mornings a week, and don't give her any at all in the evenings. She gets 1 teaspoon of pumpkin mixed into her food morning and evening. We both take Sundays off: no Restoralax and no pumpkin, just food on Sundays. Poppy is now "pooping" fairly regularly every 3rd day, enough volume to reassure me things are normal, and she doesn't seem surprised or scared nearly as much as she used to be when she feels a bowel movement coming on. This morning I found she had pooped in the litterbox - that's twice she's used the box since I brought her home in January.

Imagine someone being happy to clean a litterbox! I was.

I've gone back to using regular cat litter since it's cheaper, and she's fine with that. One litterbox in the utility cupboard (where I want it, instead of in the hall outside the bathroom) and she consistently uses that box for pee. No boxes or training pads visible anywhere else in the apartment (although I do keep two pads spread out under my bed - it was awkward cleaning under there!).

Less Restoralax - down to 1/4 tsp a day, 6 days a week. Pumpkin a regular part of her diet. No sign of constipation.

Poppy asks for a play session most mornings, coming to the den to beg me away from the computer. We have a time of "catch the mouse" and "chase the ball" and she trails me around the place trying to catch the bit of lace I drag for her to follow. She still flops on the floor anytime I speak to her, ready for a pet and a belly rub. She's started to approach me more often, just to touch my leg or bat my hand and then she flies off. She tolerates being picked up and held for a few seconds (once I got 5 minutes with her in my lap). We've recently started an on-the-bed cuddle at bedtime, although this just lasts for a few seconds so far before she wants away. She spends most of her day on the balcony, but comes to find me if I go to another room where she can't immediately see me. Once she is sure I am still home, she goes back to the balcony.

I've been using the harp CD and also using T-touch massage, and this seems to have helped to calm her.

All in all, I think Poppy has made remarkable progress in the 2 months I've had her. The litterbox issue is sorted as far as "pee" goes, and I have hope she will start to use the box for poop. Poppy is much calmer, much more trusting, and is having a grand old time now she can get as close to outdoors as living on the 25th floor of a highrise will allow. She's eating well and enjoying her life here.

I'm absolutely delighted with this little girl. Patience has been key to it all. Patience and letting Princess Poppy set the pace. From shelter cat to Princess in just two months!

I wanted to update you all on Poppy's progress, and thank you all again for your support. Thank you!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Awwww, this sounds so wonderful

.  Princess Poppy

.  I'm so thrilled you found each other

 

[poppy2507]

Update (again): Wouldn't have said it maybe a few months ago, but I am delighted to be cleaning a litterbox again! The last time Poppy "pooped" she did her business in the box. Pooped and ran. Today, she not only used the litterbox but she also covered up the deposit she left. First time she has done that for solid waste. So Poppy is now consistently using the litterbox for both "pee" and for "poop." I knew she was a brilliant little girl!

I expect we will have a few misses along with the more frequent hits, and that's okay. I can live with it. But this shelter-cat is turning out to be absolutely splendid. I got her a "play mat" this week, and she happily pounces on the mouse that's attached in one pocket, and the feather stuff on the other corner. She chases her little nerf soccer ball, hides her catnip mouse until it drives me nuts trying to find it again. She is now giving me head-butts to wake me up in the morning for her breakfast, she does room checks if she doesn't see me for a while ... To anyone considering taking home a shelter cat, I would say just do it!

To anyone dealing with litterbox issues, I would advise patience, and calm, and don't yell at the cat. I brought Poppy home last week of January, so 2-1/2 months of trial and error, and then deciding to just wait her out. And Poppy is slowly resolving her issues, whatever they are. She still skitters away once she has done litterbox business, still seems to be wary of an angry reaction to that. But we're winning this one!

 

[vball91]

Hooray for Poppy, and for you for having the patience and love to give her time to adjust. It sounds like you two have the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. Congratulations!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Again...

This is just so GREAT!