Persian Coat... Is it Reverse Shade/Smoke, Black, or something else?

FuzzyForks

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Hi! Need help pinpointing the exact coat color of my 2 Persian kittens. Sounds easy, right? IT'S NOT... mainly because of a rare feature they have that I can't find much about. (And I've done my research.)

First, the basics. They're dark, dark chocolate, but sometimes they look grey, sometimes black, I've even seen red highlights at certain angles in the sun. Yesterday, they looked almost silver.
Mom: Shaded Tortoiseshell -1/3 Tipping. Dad: Bi-Color Chocolate-Point. (Attached pic)

Ok, so tipping refers to white tipped with color -it's level determining smoke, shaded, or shell/chinchilla. Their bellies are shaded (2/3 white), but they also have the reverse... WHITE TIPS. It's largely concentrated around the neck, but it's sporadic everywhere but the head, legs, & tail (these are solid chocolate).

I've seen only 2 instances of white-tips...
1. Genetic theory of a Chinchilla gene that produces 5 silver effects, 1 is white-tipped black hairs. (heavensentit.wordpress.com/persians).
2. Two pics of similar-colored persians, both said ‘Black’. I know Black is sometimes called Smoke because of a gene that dilutes the normal color & gives it lighter areas... I didn’t think the lightness was because of white tips -surely that would've been mentioned somewhere!
statich.thecatsite.com/1/10/10eace17_untitled.bmp
mybritishshorthair.com/persian-cat-colors-and-patterns-full-guide/ (See pics under “Black Persians”)

It's not a fever coat (they were born nearly black). So what is this color? Just black? Or maybe, is it a pattern?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Pheobe (4).jpg
Roo & Pheobe.jpg
Pheobe, Roo & Andi.png
Pheobe & Roo -Tips.png
Greta.png
Murray (11-2022).png
 
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nurseangel

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Hi, welcome to TCS! My aunt, who is no longer with us, used to breed Persians. She would have probably been able to answer your question, but unfortunately, I can't. Those are some beautiful kittens, though! :catlove: Do you know anything of their lineage?
 
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FuzzyForks

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Hi, welcome to TCS! My aunt, who is no longer with us, used to breed Persians. She would have probably been able to answer your question, but unfortunately, I can't. Those are some beautiful kittens, though! :catlove: Do you know anything of their lineage?
Hi NurseAngel, thanks for replying! Yes, the last two pics are Mom/Dad. Their CFA registration lists the Sire/Dam, but I didn't research them to know if they look like my kittens.
 

LunarFlower

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I would be interested to see their grandparents… sometimes recessives are made clear with more data from the bloodline. That is a very interesting effect, and time may clarify what exactly is going on.

I have a shorthair lynx point cat that appeared to have very white tips when she was younger, but as she got her full adult coat it became clear that she had tiny color tips on the very end of each hair. She is a silver/cameo, so not quite the same as a smoke, but with some genetic similarities.

Here is how her adult coat looks
1CC65DA6-A2FE-421B-A50E-63ED3C1C8A0C.jpeg 6CE06347-4E4B-441A-BBBF-F96275149FBC.jpeg
5F441E75-0179-4E63-97D2-BC5951CE4CDB.jpeg
White tipping is one of those occasionally whispered around possibilities, but there’s not a lot of data on it. I’ve seen some people call it sparkle or shine, but those terms can also apply to other possible coat effects, so it’s really difficult to determine if that is what people are referring to when they discuss it.
Whenever smoke or silver is suspected, time usually sorts out any odd effects. Please do update us on their coats, especially regarding if the white tipping remains with time; I’m always interested to see new coat patterns and effects show up!
 

Meowmee

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Hi! Need help pinpointing the exact coat color of my 2 Persian kittens. Sounds easy, right? IT'S NOT... mainly because of a rare feature they have that I can't find much about. (And I've done my research.)

First, the basics. They're dark, dark chocolate, but sometimes they look grey, sometimes black, I've even seen red highlights at certain angles in the sun. Yesterday, they looked almost silver.
Mom: Shaded Tortoiseshell -1/3 Tipping. Dad: Bi-Color Chocolate-Point. (Attached pic)

Ok, so tipping refers to white tipped with color -it's level determining smoke, shaded, or shell/chinchilla. Their bellies are shaded (2/3 white), but they also have the reverse... WHITE TIPS. It's largely concentrated around the neck, but it's sporadic everywhere but the head, legs, & tail (these are solid chocolate).

I've seen only 2 instances of white-tips...
1. Genetic theory of a Chinchilla gene that produces 5 silver effects, 1 is white-tipped black hairs. (heavensentit.wordpress.com/persians).
2. Two pics of similar-colored persians, both said ‘Black’. I know Black is sometimes called Smoke because of a gene that dilutes the normal color & gives it lighter areas... I didn’t think the lightness was because of white tips -surely that would've been mentioned somewhere!
statich.thecatsite.com/1/10/10eace17_untitled.bmp
mybritishshorthair.com/persian-cat-colors-and-patterns-full-guide/ (See pics under “Black Persians”)

It's not a fever coat (they were born nearly black). So what is this color? Just black? Or maybe, is it a pattern?
Thanks in advance for the help!
View attachment 447494View attachment 447495View attachment 447496View attachment 447497View attachment 447498View attachment 447499
I don't know enough about persian colors to say, there is a persian breeder member here though so maybe she will know. the first cat looks like black smoke maybe. Such cuties 😻
 

Maurey

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I would wait to see what happens in coming months, personally, if you're planning on keeping them/selling with breeding rights. Fever coat can develop in kittens that weren't born with it. Was the queen ill or stressed during her pregnancy? When did the tips appear? How old are they now? It could also be unsound black kitten coat. It's honestly hard to be definitely sure until they're closer to maturity, imo.
 
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FuzzyForks

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They were born Christmas Day, so 15 weeks now. (Cant wait too long, people dont want 'teenage' cats.)

She's skittish & always ready to run, but no out of the ordinary stresses. She did have a runny nose.

Smokes have a bone-white undercoat, & unsound coats have a paler version of the tip-color underneath.

*Their male litter-mate is lilac w/ no color issues (pic below). Wouldn't an illness affect all three?
 

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