Pee Issues

catlover73

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I have 4 cats a female 10 year old named Starbuck, a male 5 year old named Sonny, a three year old male named Apollo and a 1 1/2 year old male named Casey.

We just recently discovered that at least one of our cats has been using our den as litter box to pee in.  We are not completely sure who is because this was not happening when we were around to see it.

My hubby noticed a funny smell in the den earlier last week and found that the basket on the floor that Casey used to sleep in sometimes was covered in pee.  It sank into the carpet from the basket.  We do have a black light and found a big issue in this room. It looks like someone re-decorated the carpet with pee in multiple areas.  We are currently keeping everyone out of the room unless we are in there to supervise. Some of the stains appear to be older and this is possibly from when one of my seniors had a stroke and my hubby came home and found him covered in pee.  It is possible he had accidents in that room because hubby found Claude hiding in the closet in that room.  We had to put him to sleep due to the stroke taking away almost his entire quality of life.  Rest in peace Claude I hope you are getting lots of showers at the rainbow bridge.  He was a water kitty.

My hubby suspects it is our 10 year old but he has not seen her do this.  She was spending a lot of time in the den hanging out and sleeping in there.  However all the cats have hung out in this room. He suspects her because her pee has never had a particularly strong odor her entire life.  I can clean the litter box right after she pees and don't notice any smell.

I am home the next two days and plan on watching both Sonny and Starbuck to make sure they are not having any issues when they are using the litter boxes.  The two younger ones have normal litter box habits which I get to observe every time I scoop out the litter boxes.

My husband has told me that he thinks there is some sort of pain when he pets Starbuck on her back near the top of her tail.  I have not observed this first hand while petting her.  He did say the pain does not seem to be there all them time though.  I am wondering if any one has any ideas on what this could be.  She moves around normally and does not show any changes in behavior with the stairs in my house.  I do see her go to the basement to use the litter box.  I have 4 litter boxes in my basement. She will go up and down the stairs fine to eat also. Her weight is stable so I know she is eating regularly and I do see her drinking out of our cat fountain daily.

Also the basket that was peed on was most used by Casey but she would use it occasionally.  The basket was moved into this area from another room.  Casey and Starbuck get along just fine.  I am wondering it if it is possible that I am dealing with a territorial issue in this room?

I am going to watch the litter box habits the next two days to make sure I am not missing a hidden medical issue.  If I do find a possible medical issue then that cat will go to the vet.

Also what have you successfully used to clean urine out of carpet.  We have a Bissel Steam Cleaner.  Hubby tried white vinegar to clean the first spot we found.  We have steam cleaned the worst section of the room and the smell seems to be gone but the stain is not.  I was thinking of going to home depot to look at some of the enzymatic pre-treaters and pet formula cleaners Bissel makes.  Has anyone had any success with these products?  Which products have you had success with to remove large amounts of pee from an entire room.

Sorry for the book but I could use any suggestions or advice you have.  Starbuck does hate the car and the vet to the point that she pees in her carrier but if she needs to go the vet it will happen.  If I figure out which cat is peeing in there a vet visit will happen.
 
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cinqchats

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Also what have you successfully used to clean urine out of carpet.  We have a Bissel Steam Cleaner.  Hubby tried white vinegar to clean the first spot we found.  We have steam cleaned the worst section of the room and the smell seems to be gone but the stain is not.  I was thinking of going to home depot to look at some of the enzymatic pre-treaters and pet formula cleaners Bissel makes.  Has anyone had any success with these products?  Which products have you had success with to remove large amounts of pee from an entire room.
Honestly, my solution was ripping out the carpet and underlying pad. 

The pain your husband is mentioning about your older cat, in her rear end, could be arthritis. If it is her, it could be that she is able to go up and down the stairs to get to the litter boxes, but maybe it's becoming too uncomfortable and she'd rather go in the den. Smoochie hit a point where she is physically capable of navigating the stairs, but it hurts too much and she'd rather go in an inappropriate place. Try putting a litter box upstairs somewhere and see that helps? Also consider putting more cat beds/toys/maybe a perch? in that room to increase the available "resources". If it's a territorial issue that may help. With four cats it can be really hard to catch the culprit (I feel you on this one). 

Worst case if you can't figure out whodunit, try separating them into rooms by themselves. If you have that many rooms! Let them out one by one and see who takes the bait. If there's one particular spot that seems the most popular you could try putting a puppy piddle pad over it to allow you to see the accidents more easily.

If your older kitty had an accident in there it may be completely innocent. One cat might have smelled his accident and thought the carpet was a fine place to go, so now multiple cats are jumping on the bandwagon. 
 
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catlover73

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Honestly, my solution was ripping out the carpet and underlying pad. 

The pain your husband is mentioning about your older cat, in her rear end, could be arthritis. If it is her, it could be that she is able to go up and down the stairs to get to the litter boxes, but maybe it's becoming too uncomfortable and she'd rather go in the den. Smoochie hit a point where she is physically capable of navigating the stairs, but it hurts too much and she'd rather go in an inappropriate place. Try putting a litter box upstairs somewhere and see that helps? Also consider putting more cat beds/toys/maybe a perch? in that room to increase the available "resources". If it's a territorial issue that may help. With four cats it can be really hard to catch the culprit (I feel you on this one). 

Worst case if you can't figure out whodunit, try separating them into rooms by themselves. If you have that many rooms! Let them out one by one and see who takes the bait. If there's one particular spot that seems the most popular you could try putting a puppy piddle pad over it to allow you to see the accidents more easily.

If your older kitty had an accident in there it may be completely innocent. One cat might have smelled his accident and thought the carpet was a fine place to go, so now multiple cats are jumping on the bandwagon. 
How did you figure out your cat has arthritis?  What is being done for treatment?  I wish I could pull out the carpet and put down the vinyl wood I have in my hall but I do not have the funds for that right now.  I will talk to hubby about the idea with the pee pads for the one really bad spot near where the basket was.  I could try moving one of the litter boxes back into my upstairs bathroom I have done that for my seniors and when my other cats were small kittens.

I do have a multi level cat tree in that room already as well a couple scratch posts and some toys.  Starbuck is a munchkin kitty so she is not a jumper so creating more levels may not help her if this is territorial.  There are places in the room that she can get into if she needs to that the other cats are too big to fit into to bother her.  She gets along well with all the other cats most of the time.  There is very limited occasional hissing from her toward my 4 year old.

The current area that is the worst is on the complete opposite side of the room from where it appears my senior might have had an accident.  I read that older spots will fade more with the black light.

The other thing we feel may have helped cause this is that we had company over a couple of times the last two months for a few days. Starbuck tends to hide from anyone but us.  I have in the past seen her go downstairs to eat and use the litter box when our company is asleep.  Is it possible that this started due to stress from our company?  My hubby's friend is a cat lover but he does not try to go near her at all because he does not want to scare her.  It has been about 2 weeks since the last time we had company.  Hubby's friend may not have noticed the odor in the den when he was visiting due to his chronic sinus issues.
 
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cinqchats

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The vet looked at her, and you can hear her joints popping and shifting around. Her first owner had her declawed, and you can see that she stands in an awkward stance to compensate. I guess after years of walking funny, it wore down her joints. She was on Cosequin supplements for a few years until she was diagnosed with CKD this past fall. Now we just try to make it easier for her to get where she needs to go- low sides on litter boxes, pet stairs, heat pads to lie on, etc.
 

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Also what have you successfully used to clean urine out of carpet.  We have a Bissel Steam Cleaner.  Hubby tried white vinegar to clean the first spot we found.  We have steam cleaned the worst section of the room and the smell seems to be gone but the stain is not.  I was thinking of going to home depot to look at some of the enzymatic pre-treaters and pet formula cleaners Bissel makes.  Has anyone had any success with these products?  Which products have you had success with to remove large amounts of pee from an entire room.
Honestly, my solution was ripping out the carpet and underlying pad. 

The pain your husband is mentioning about your older cat, in her rear end, could be arthritis. If it is her, it could be that she is able to go up and down the stairs to get to the litter boxes, but maybe it's becoming too uncomfortable and she'd rather go in the den. Smoochie hit a point where she is physically capable of navigating the stairs, but it hurts too much and she'd rather go in an inappropriate place. Try putting a litter box upstairs somewhere and see that helps? Also consider putting more cat beds/toys/maybe a perch? in that room to increase the available "resources". If it's a territorial issue that may help. With four cats it can be really hard to catch the culprit (I feel you on this one). 

Worst case if you can't figure out whodunit, try separating them into rooms by themselves. If you have that many rooms! Let them out one by one and see who takes the bait. If there's one particular spot that seems the most popular you could try putting a puppy piddle pad over it to allow you to see the accidents more easily.

If your older kitty had an accident in there it may be completely innocent. One cat might have smelled his accident and thought the carpet was a fine place to go, so now multiple cats are jumping on the bandwagon. 
I completely agree with everything here, including bleaching the floor UNDER the carpet pad.  We had to do that in one of our room after one of our seniors had many, many accidents.   We recently brought in our down comforter from the garage and found urine marks from a long, long time ago.  I saturated them with bleach water (both sides), THEN did the same thing with Nok Out, and low and behold, after it had dried and I put it on the bed, it hadn't been there for10 minutes before someone peed on it.  I think it was the situation where they could still smell urine and thought it must be a big fluffy peepad.  
.  I ordered a new down comforter and have had no issues with the new one whatsoever 
.

It could be that as Starbuck ages, taking a long trip down to the basement is simply too far to go when she needs to go.  I can tell you that as I age, it's "gotta go, gotta go, gotta go RIGHT NOW"
, so a box on every floor might be a good idea.  We live in a 2 story home and definitely have boxes on both floors.  Yes, it's inconvenient, but it is what it is.  One box is in our bathtub, but at least it's easy access in the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping on the bed
 

mrsgreenjeens

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The vet looked at her, and you can hear her joints popping and shifting around. Her first owner had her declawed, and you can see that she stands in an awkward stance to compensate. I guess after years of walking funny, it wore down her joints. She was on Cosequin supplements for a few years until she was diagnosed with CKD this past fall. Now we just try to make it easier for her to get where she needs to go- low sides on litter boxes, pet stairs, heat pads to lie on, etc.
Not to change the topic of this thread, but why stop giving Cosequin just because your girl was diagnosed with CKD.  My old guy had CKD and we still have him Cosequin.  It's actually supposed to be good for kidney cats...that's what I've been told.  And Quality of life is SO important. 
 
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catlover73

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Thanks for the input.  I will look into getting another litter box for upstairs.  I have previously had a litter box upstairs in my master bathroom.  There is plenty of space in that room for the litter box tucked away under a large unused open space under my vanity.  Yes it is a pain in the ass to deal with the litter tracking but it is a tiny sacrifice I would gladly make for Starbuck.  All my cats are family members and if I need to clean my bathroom floor more often so things are easier for my 10 year old cat than I will do it.  None of my cats are declawed so I know it is not related to that issue.

I am not sure how to clean under the carpet though because I really do not have the funds to do new flooring in the den right now.  I am going to try some products that are designed to work with my steam cleaner to see if there is any chance a salvaging the carpet.  There were some products that got great reviews on both the website for steam cleaner and Amazon for removing both the stains and odor.  I am going to start with those first and see what happens.

The last time I took Starbuck to the vet she peed all over herself in the carrier and hated the car ride.  She has always hated car rides since she was thrown out a car window as a baby.  Even when she was 6 weeks old she hated car rides. Is it worth stressing her out to go to the vet to check for possible arthritis at this point?  The only time she seems to be in any pain is once in a while when hubby pets her on the back near the top of her tail. She is still getting around my house well.  She is a munchkin kitty with short legs so she has never been much of a jumper.  She is currently asleep on my railing.  She uses my desk chair to get up there.  Her weight is stable. She has not come downstairs yet today but that is normal as she tends to be up and about more at night.
 
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You might wait and see whether or not she seems to be the one peeing "out of order" and whether it seems to be a health related issue or not (possible UTI).  Then make the decision.  Are there no mobile vets in your area?  That might be an option.

You could always try just adding some Cosequin to her food to see if it makes any difference.  It won't hurt her if she DOESN't have arthritis, but it might help if she does.  I noticed a change right away with my old guy and the way he could suddenly start jumping up on things again once he started on the Cosequin.  Amazon sells it, BTW.
 
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catlover73

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You might wait and see whether or not she seems to be the one peeing "out of order" and whether it seems to be a health related issue or not (possible UTI).  Then make the decision.  Are there no mobile vets in your area?  That might be an option.

You could always try just adding some Cosequin to her food to see if it makes any difference.  It won't hurt her if she DOESN't have arthritis, but it might help if she does.  I noticed a change right away with my old guy and the way he could suddenly start jumping up on things again once he started on the Cosequin.  Amazon sells it, BTW.
I am not aware of any mobile vets in my area.  How did you figure out the dosing for the Cosequin?

I talked with my hubby and he seems to leaning toward taking her to the vet this weekend.  Her main issue is the car ride. She actually did pretty well with the vet.
 

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I'm sorry you're having pee issues in your den, I'm glad your taking kitty to the vet because it will rule out something like a UTI or other infection.  You definitely need a good enzyme cleaner to get the urine out of carpet, but also the padding underneath and even the floorboard beneath if it got really soaked. I've used Nature's Miracle Just For Cat and it worked very well. I was wondering if there is a possibility of an outdoor cat terrorizing your kitties that are indoors?  I just discovered there is somebody's neighborhood outdoor cat(mine are strictly indoor) who is throwing itself against the window where my male kitten likes to sit and sun himself. There was urine marking on that window on the outside! :-(  Another suggestion you might try Feliway Diffusers for urine marking in that room, plus you can get a spray for car rides?
 
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catlover73

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I'm sorry you're having pee issues in your den, I'm glad your taking kitty to the vet because it will rule out something like a UTI or other infection.  You definitely need a good enzyme cleaner to get the urine out of carpet, but also the padding underneath and even the floorboard beneath if it got really soaked. I've used Nature's Miracle Just For Cat and it worked very well. I was wondering if there is a possibility of an outdoor cat terrorizing your kitties that are indoors?  I just discovered there is somebody's neighborhood outdoor cat(mine are strictly indoor) who is throwing itself against the window where my male kitten likes to sit and sun himself. There was urine marking on that window on the outside! :-(  Another suggestion you might try Feliway Diffusers for urine marking in that room, plus you can get a spray for car rides?
My den is on the upper level of my house so I don't think anything is marking territory on the outside of that area. It would be really hard for a stray cat to get up there. The cat would literally have to climb my siding to get up there since there are no trees or plants next to my house.  I am going to call and make a vet appointment tomorrow for my hubby to take her in on Saturday while I am at work. We are also concerned that there may be a possible arthritis issue with her.  Hubby noticed recently that she once in a while acts like she is in pain when he pets her back near the top of her tail.   Tomorrow after I clean the litter boxes I am going to move one back up to the 2nd level so she has a litter box upstairs. How the heck do I clean the padding without tearing out the carpet since I do not have funds to replace the flooring in that room?

How long ago did you use the Nature's Miracle because I read online that changes had been made to the product when it was sold to a new manufacturer?  The reviews I saw on Amazon were saying it did not work as well as the original one.
 
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catlover73

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Starbuck is going to the vet tomorrow with hubby while I am at work.  I called and made an appointment and the receptionist made a notes of my concerns since I can not be there.  I got her an appointment with the same vet she saw last time. This vet uses Feliway on herself between patients and it really seemed like Starbuck was calmer around her.  I also just remembered that the vet gave me a Feliway wipe the last time I was there. I need to see if I can find it so I can wipe down her carrier with it.  If I do find the Feliway wipe when should I wipe down the carrier? Her appointment is at 1:30pm.

Also my hubby accidentally ruled out our youngest cat Casey as the culprit.  Casey ran in the den and hid in there. Hubby accidentally locked him in there overnight and there were no accidents.  Nothing was wet and I already used a black light to verify there are no new spots.
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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 I am not aware of any mobile vets in my area.  How did you figure out the dosing for the Cosequin?
I googled "mobile Vet in Chicago" and got several, so they are there (for next time). 

As far as dosing Cosequin, the instructions are on the bottle.  it depends on her size, but since she's a munchkin, I'd guess 1 capsule per day.  My Sven weighed 7 lbs, so that's what he got.
 
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catlover73

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I googled "mobile Vet in Chicago" and got several, so they are there (for next time). 

As far as dosing Cosequin, the instructions are on the bottle.  it depends on her size, but since she's a munchkin, I'd guess 1 capsule per day.  My Sven weighed 7 lbs, so that's what he got.
I am actually in the burbs about 45 minutes away from Chicago. I did do some research and found a two that actually service my area.  I did contact them but they did not have anything available this weekend on such short notice.  My hubby is confident that he can get her to the vets on his own.  She is much calmer when he handles her than she is with me.  He can pick her up and hold her easily but when I try to do it she does not like it.  She is a total daddy's girl.  Her favorite thing to do is to be held by daddy like a baby so she can groom his face.  If I try to hold her any longer than to bring her to bed at night she will scratch and bite me. She has never hurt me but she does make sure I know that she wants to be put down quickly.  It has been this way since she was a baby.  When she wants attention from me she climbs up on my desk and gives me kisses or she will lay next to me on my pillow.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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I googled "mobile Vet in Chicago" and got several, so they are there (for next time). 

As far as dosing Cosequin, the instructions are on the bottle.  it depends on her size, but since she's a munchkin, I'd guess 1 capsule per day.  My Sven weighed 7 lbs, so that's what he got.
I am actually in the burbs about 45 minutes away from Chicago. I did do some research and found a two that actually service my area.  I did contact them but they did not have anything available this weekend on such short notice.  My hubby is confident that he can get her to the vets on his own.  She is much calmer when he handles her than she is with me.  He can pick her up and hold her easily but when I try to do it she does not like it.  She is a total daddy's girl.  Her favorite thing to do is to be held by daddy like a baby so she can groom his face.  If I try to hold her any longer than to bring her to bed at night she will scratch and bite me. She has never hurt me but she does make sure I know that she wants to be put down quickly.  It has been this way since she was a baby.  When she wants attention from me she climbs up on my desk and gives me kisses or she will lay next to me on my pillow.
I know EXACTLY the feeling.  Our girl is the same way with HER Daddy
  She is totally in love with him, and all I am is her slave...the person who takes care of her and nothing else.  She ADORES hubby, and he ADORES her.  But, revenge is mine, because the boys want nothing to do with  him, they are total Momma's Boys
(and there are TWO of them
)
 
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catlover73

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The only way I can sometimes get Starbuck in the carrier without daddy is if I throw enough treats into the carrier and close the door fast enough if she goes in.  The last time I did that to her she was mad and made sure I knew it.  She howled at me but I had to get her in there because we had to leave for a vet appointment the moment hubby got home from work. I even put more treats in the carrier with her to try to calm her down and it did not work. 
 
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