Overwhelmed by Giardia

Meowmee

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Please don't get too worried about Zena at this point. Sometimes cats will stay away for a little bit after a trap attempt etc. But if she is hungry she will come back. She may just be hunting elsewhere for now. And mice is the perfect meal for cats with protein and moisture.

You definitely did not fail. You did your best and it is hard. Let's just see how it goes the next few days. Sometimes cat disappear for months and months and come back. Cats are resourceful.

:( Poor Merlin. I guess it may not be too surprising given he didn't go for 3 days. It seems like his system is "off". Could it be a food allergy? Protein or ingredient? Any changes to his food? At least he is cooperative.

That is a good idea. Maybe he needs the steroid. :/ I am wondering if it might be something else. But the good news is you are learning what works and what doesn't. It really is a lot of trial and error. Ughhhhhhh, I hope you find it soon.

:( I know. Hang in there. Even when things don't work we learn something. I know, I know someone that has so many medications for their dogs. It is REALLY tiring and stressful. I think you will narrow it down. Hopefully soon.
Well, I failed to trap her though, should have done more right away because I think she was recently dumped etc. not used to being out there and asked for help but then ran away. I should have withheld food and put some in the have a hart to eat at first and then trapped her. I have a feeling something terrible has happened to her and she won’t be back.

I am super worried now about one of my outdoor guys. I put food out before I was planning to go to sleep, I was playing with Quinn by the patio door and then all of a sudden I noticed that he was limping badly- his right paw seemed injured, he was holding it up and when he tried to walk his whole body was collapsing and he was kind of hobbling on the ground. It looks like he could’ve been injured on the other side maybe too because I would think they would not be collapsing that much from an injured paw / leg on one side right?

Two other of his friends were there as well. I talk to him pointed to him and told him to wait I was going to help him and he was looking at me. I went to get my coat and the key to the shed where I have the have a heart trap but when I came back he was gone and there was no sign of him, only his best friend, one of the three musketeers, was standing by the shed. I looked under the shed to see if he could be there but is very hard to see anything under there because it’s pretty big and very low down where the space between the bottom of the shed and the ground is and it is all filled in with leaves. I walked around the house twice calling him but there was no sign of anybody by that point his friend had left as well. Out of these three kitties he is the most timid and always runs away from me but he has been maybe a little bit less timid the past few weeks.

I hope his buddies are helping him wherever he is.

I’m so worried because at some point in late August or September I saw him run across the street in front of the truck which fortunately slowed down but if he would’ve been hit by it otherwise and I’m wondering if he could’ve been hit by a car now? I also heard at least one cat screaming about two or three hours before that, it sounded like it was a cat fight, so I went out to investigate I didn’t see anything but I saw one cat running away in the dark so maybe he got into a fight? Well I have to get some sleep now I’ve been up for hours and hours and I’m hoping that he will come back later maybe I can trap him and get him to the doctor. I don’t know what they will be able to do because I’m sure he’s not really tame or touchable at all. I guess he will have to be sedated if he has a wound/ inj of some sort.

Even more bad news is that Merlin went back to totally liquid poop about 7 AM today😿 I’m just so perplexed by all of this and I’m starting to get a point where I feel he is never going to go back to normal. I just cannot imagine having to clean up liquid poop all the time out of the litter box, it creates a huge mess. I wonder if the Ronidazile could be making his diarrhea worse? I mean that is really a symptom of most antibiotics. I don’t understand why he had a normal poop for three days and now it’s back to this. The poop was very kind of dark brown but not with any blood. I called the DVM Thursday I believe but no one has called me back. I guess that is to be expected and I’m pretty much going to have to find a specialist I think because this one useless in terms of communicating. Ended up just increasing the steroid dose to twice a day again so I guess this is just me on my own pretty much except for when I called to get medications RX which eventually gets done.

Another odd thing was that he should’ve finished there were nighters all last night but there still seems to be like a day and a half or doses. I am sure I did not miss any doses and I’m sure it was the right amount every time. So I’m wondering if maybe they put a little bit of extra medication in there in case you spill some or whatever?

I don’t think I have really learned anything with Merlin except that I have no clue what is going on and he’s going to keep going back-and-forth between mostly diarrhea mushy poop liquid poop and maybe an occasional days with normal poop and I have no clue why. The only thing I can say really is that I think the probiotics are terrible for him. Just not sure how much longer I can do all of this I’ve never really had a situation like this. When my cats were usually chronically ill it was at the end of their life or in mid life. I’ve never had a young cat who was so sick right off the bat and didn’t respond anything. The odd thing is he does not seem like he’s sick at all he’s playing and eating and happy. He did seem a little bit happier when you had the normal poop for those days though. If he does have t. Foetus why isn’t he responding to r? Certainly his symptoms would suggest that’s what he has. I don’t think inflammatory bowel looks like what is going on with him but maybe I am wrong.

His diet has not changed at all he’s just eating the home cooked food now which only has chicken, chicken liver and the supplements. I even stopped giving him pumpkin. The only other thing he’s had for quite a while now is the occasional chicken or turkey tidbit from my meals for a snack or treat. If he is having some kind of a reaction to chicken I don’t think he would’ve gotten back to normal poop for three days right?

Hoping I’m going to wake up to something better. Maybe Merlin will have a normal poop and cinnamon will not be limping anymore.
 

calicosrspecial

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It is not easy. PLEASE do not be so hard on yourself. Withholding food can sometimes cause them to leave and not come back if they are not accustomed to eating there. It is tricky. I think she will be back since you don't have too many predators and your ferals seemed to have accepted her (to some degree). We can always look back and second guess but it is important to keep positive and be ready if there is another opportunity. I know it doesn't help but I don't think you should blame yourself. If the person didn't dump her or her mother was spayed then this would never have happened. There are so many pieces in the chain. I am the same way, I regret things but regret doesn't move us forward only learning. :/ Not that it helps but I would have done the same thing you did.

:( Poor guy. An injured paw could do that (it could even be a nail pulled out). Let's hope it is something that passes. I am guessing he will be back. I had a feral come around about a year ago like that. I tried to trap but he didn't want that and left. A few days later he came back and was walking fine. It is just difficult to know. All you can do is your best. They are hard to get in to the vet. :/ I do think his buddies will protect him as that is what they do. If he really needs help I think he will come back to you. One of my cats that is now inside was in really bad shape and she came to me and let me put her in a crate. If a cat trusts the human it is a good possibility they will come for help even if they are really feral or timid/shy. Let's hope but I think you will see him again and probably soon.

"maybe he got into a fight?" - Very possible. Especially with the noises you heard. Could have lost a nail, was bitten, etc. Difficult to know. Just be careful if you handle him. Use bite gloves. The vet will use a sedative if you get him in and he is uncontrollable. What happens after that (continued care) could be the difficult part but maybe that is a good problem to have (meaning he was trapped and in the vet with antibiotics, shots, etc).

:( I would try to find another vet. Did anything else change (food?). Poor guy. I am just not sure and a vet's opinion advice is really important.

Hmmmm, that is odd. Are you sure that the right amount was given? Maybe excess was given as it may be spilled, spit out, etc. I just don't know.

It is interesting that he acts pretty normal other than that. That is good. I think getting another vet's opinion might be a really good idea. I just don't know. I keep wondering about a food (protein, ingredient) allergy. Is he losing weight?

"If he is having some kind of a reaction to chicken I don’t think he would’ve gotten back to normal poop for three days right?" - I don't know. Logically I would say no BUT I just don;t know. It is something but what........................... I am just not an expert in this. I would make a post in the health section where experts can help.

I HOPE SO AS WELL!! I feel so badly for you and the cats. :( I just hope things get better soon.
 

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I will write more later. I just saw Cinnamon eating food I put out by the front door. As soon as I said his name he left but he was still limping, maybe not as bad, I am not sure. I think it is hopeless to try to trap him now so I will have to try later after I get some sleep. I just hope he is improved a bit. I am so relieved he is ok enough to come for food. I looked a few times for him but saw no sign of him.

Merlin's food has not changed at all for 4-5 weeks or more now. Only the home cooked which is chicken ,chicken liver and alnutrin supplements. If he is having an allergic reaction to food it has to be from something in that. He was scratching his neck a bit and I was wondering if I should try zertec again. I am calling dvm again tomorrow and then will try to schedule elsewhere prolly. He has not lost weight, maybe a tiny bit because I am feeding him less to try to help his tum and so he will lose some because he is obese.

No sign of Zena😿

I am positive I dosed it correctly and I write it all on my calendar, so I know which day I started etc. it looks like there is one or a half a dose left now so there was nearly two days worth more than there should have been. It is not the first time I have seen more or less either.

I will try a new post but I really got no good help on the c diff one except to tell me to do raw food, read a very long post about someone who cured their cats parasite with s boulardi who was selling raw food now , and or use s boulardi probiotics which was a disaster to say the least. No one else said much and someone else who had already posted on another merlin runs thread came and said the same things over which did not work. 😹😳 I did read part of that other post suggested and the woman said that her cats had gotten the parasite from eating raw meat which was off, so I think it was kind of crazy to suggest that you should use that diet especially for a cat with diarrhea for 2 to 3 months now.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Whew, that is very good. keep an eye out for him and on him. Fingers crossed it is minor. Just look to see if you can see what happened and if it is infected etc.

I have seen cats allergic to chicken. It is more common that we think. Not sure if it is an issue in this case though but something to think about. GREAT that he isn't losing weight. Whew, good sign.

:( Well, I have had cats disappear for 6 months. You never know. Cats are resourceful so let's keep the faith.

Yes, you do seem conscientious.

:( I would try some different vets. Wow this is tricky. :(

Hang in there. If anyone can figure this out you can!!!
 

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Whew, that is very good. keep an eye out for him and on him. Fingers crossed it is minor. Just look to see if you can see what happened and if it is infected etc.

I have seen cats allergic to chicken. It is more common that we think. Not sure if it is an issue in this case though but something to think about. GREAT that he isn't losing weight. Whew, good sign.

:( Well, I have had cats disappear for 6 months. You never know. Cats are resourceful so let's keep the faith.

Yes, you do seem conscientious.

:( I would try some different vets. Wow this is tricky. :(

Hang in there. If anyone can figure this out you can!!!
Cinnamon came a lot the past 2-3 days but not at all today. He does seem to be improving though, his limp is not nearly as bad so I don’t think he’s going to need to go to DVM hopefully. It is very cold today so that may be why, he was also hanging with his friend Fred and Giorgio too more, well they eat from the same dish anyway, he swirls his tail around so cute etc. it’s going to be very hard to trap him because as soon as he sees me if I try to come out he runs away. I did set up I have a heart trap put some food in it to get them used to eating in it but it looks like he’s OK now..

One of my other kitties Jezebel is wounded or something. I noticed she had a big patch of fur missing on her side when I watched her eating out the window. It crossed my mind could she have been the one fighting with cinnamon? I remember two years ago half the fur was missing on one side of her face and then she vanished and I thought she must’ve passed but she showed up about three months later with all the fur back, it looked so bad- I don’t know what happened to her. I am just wondering if I should try to put antibiotics in her food?

I don’t know how to tell for sure if Merlin is allergic to chicken, can they tell that from a blood test with cats? I know the allergy tests are not always that reliable. We tried another diet vey early into this which had lamb and peas and he got much worse diarrhea on that so I’m not sure what I’m going to feed him if he is allergic.He did not poop for like two days and then today finally he had very stinky small mushy poop I’m not sure how liquid vs mush there was because I didn’t get it till later. He is totally off Ronidazole now and just on the steroid once a day. Somehow I do not think allergies are causing this but I guess I could be wrong.

i’m just hoping that as his gut recovers from all these medications he will maybe go back to normal.
I will try to get a stool sample and take it in on Monday. Still no word from this DVM and I was having my own health issues and very uncomfortable so I did not manage to call them again yet. I had very dry skin on my face which was very painful stinging etc. and I could not even go out I had to stay inside with the humidifier etc.I could barely sleep. Today I am starting to feel a little better thank goodness! I am not out of the woods yet. The good news is I finally did my stool test last week, results came back all negative. But who knows if it is right, she said is very difficult to test and she did not test me for t foetus.

I really fear that I am never going to see Zena again and I lost that window of opportunity to trap her and save her😿😿😿 She was recently dumped and asking for help - I should’ve just kept feeding her and let her trust me more, and things will never be the same the longer she is out there who knows what is happening to her. I’m just hoping maybe she was the lost and found her way home or someone else took her in.

just found this link on probiotics which says they really can be a bad thing not a good thing which is usually what I experienced when I take them.

Probiotics are mostly useless and can actually hurt you
 
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calicosrspecial

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Great news, thanks for the update.

:( Poor Jezebel. I would contact a vet before administering any medications etc. You may want to try to trap her. Ughhhh, it is always something.

That is a good question. I typically use different proteins and try to see that way. Sometimes a drastic change can cause issues as well. I am just not an expert on dietary things/allergies etc. You may want to post on the other section (food or health) and see what people with better experience think. Poor guy.

Good news it came back negative. Let's hope it is accurate. I hope you feel better soon as well. Yes, hopefully his tummy will feel better. Those medications can be hard on the tummy etc. That is so strange the vet doesn't call back. Ridiculous.

Hang in there. It is easy to look in the past and blame ourselves. BUT we don;t know. I actually had a cat come by I haven't see in probably a year. He is a big male but still, we have a lot of predators. I think she is more resourceful than you think. I would check animal control as someone may have trapped her. Other than that just keep an eye out for her. PLEASE do not be hard on yourself, This is not easy.

:( Medicine/health is so complicated..................

Hang in there. I know it is frustrating etc but every day I think you are learning more. Let's hope the good is going to happen soon. AND the vet call back!!!
 
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juju521

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Checking in back here. It's been about a month since Ryder has been Giardia free but his stool is still soft and end parts of stool is loose and stinky. I thought it was his wet food, so I experimented with different proteins, different gums (he won't eat the few wet foods without gums), but nothing was working, so I took him back to the vet. He was put back on to the metronidizole for two weeks and got bloodwork done to test B12/Folate levels and given prescription food. I gave him his first dose of metro on Thursday night and after about 2 hours his stool was solid, low res, and not stinky. It's now been about 36 hours since he pooped. He generally goes once a day and doesn't go this long without having a bowel movement and doesn't look like he has any urge to go. He's been on metro before to get rid of his Giardia and he didn't have this issue before. Should I contact my vet again if he hasn't pooped in 2 days? Not sure at what point I should really be concerned about the lack of pooping.

2 questions:
1) I'm not thrilled with his prescription food. It's Hills I/D sensitive stomach wet and dry. It just seems unhealthy given all the nutrition info I've read at this site. Is it necessary to give him the Hills food?
2) Is constipation a side effect of Metro?
 

calicosrspecial

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So glad he is giardia free.

Was he going multiple times a day? Soft? Did he look like he was having discomfort when going?

I believe metro does firm things up. I am not an expert but 36 hours is not all that uncommon but I would contact the vet and let them know and continue monitoring him.

Has he been eating the same amounts? It could also be the new food as that is meant to help.

At this point I wouldn't worry about the Hills I/D as it should be a short term solution (hopefully). I personally would continue following the vet's directions and speak to the vet about your concerns. Sometimes animals have some reaction to something in foods so sometimes these vet foods seem to help stabilize things. I know vet's like to push those foods and vet's don't always know much about nutrition but I know it has helped mine stabilize certain situations over time. And then a shift back to a "better" food can be accomplished.

I am not sure constipation is a side effect but I am guessing it may be. But ask your vet. A vet should be willing to answer any questions you have so you should always feel free to call and ask them any questions. It is best to get answers from vet's. And never feel like you can't get second opinions. Dealing with animals is not easy. :/

Sorry for not being more helpful. Hopefully others can answer better. Thank you for the update and I am so glad he is giardia free.
 

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Checking in back here. It's been about a month since Ryder has been Giardia free but his stool is still soft and end parts of stool is loose and stinky. I thought it was his wet food, so I experimented with different proteins, different gums (he won't eat the few wet foods without gums), but nothing was working, so I took him back to the vet. He was put back on to the metronidizole for two weeks and got bloodwork done to test B12/Folate levels and given prescription food. I gave him his first dose of metro on Thursday night and after about 2 hours his stool was solid, low res, and not stinky. It's now been about 36 hours since he pooped. He generally goes once a day and doesn't go this long without having a bowel movement and doesn't look like he has any urge to go. He's been on metro before to get rid of his Giardia and he didn't have this issue before. Should I contact my vet again if he hasn't pooped in 2 days? Not sure at what point I should really be concerned about the lack of pooping.

2 questions:
1) I'm not thrilled with his prescription food. It's Hills I/D sensitive stomach wet and dry. It just seems unhealthy given all the nutrition info I've read at this site. Is it necessary to give him the Hills food?
2) Is constipation a side effect of Metro?
I was wondering how your kittens were doing. I’m sorry Ryder has still not recovered. As you can see Merlin has not recovered either from whatever is going on with him. And it has been about three months or more now.
My experience with Quinn who also had diarrhea as a kitten but never tested positive for anything was that when I gave him metro he immediately healed. He would not poop for about two days and then his poop just went back to normal. He only poops every 2 to 3 days, usually he tends to be on the constipated side. The way I cured Quinn was I make a home cooked diet for him now because I figured out he cannot eat any commercial foods except for fussy cat so those are the only foods he eats as well as tidbits here and there of meat.
His home cooked diet consists of chicken, chicken liver and alnutrin supplements. I add a teaspoon of pumpkin into a plate once a day to help keep his stool from getting dry and add fiber.

Merlin has had a lot of times were he will not poop for two or three days and then he only poops a little bit of liquid. He had normal poop for three days about 2 to 3 weeks ago and then it just went slowly back to mush which was so discouraging. And now liquid. At that point I started the Ronidazole, and I’m hoping maybe it’s just a reaction to the antibiotic and that once he is off of everything for a while maybe he will go back to normal again.

He has now been treated with two courses of metro, two courses of Tylosin, and one course of Ronidazole. And he is still on the steroid once a day now. He is also only on the home-cooked diet, now nothing else. I also took him off all probiotics and supplements because he had a terrible diarrhea event at the hospital due to them.

I am guessing either he does have inflammatory bowel or he did have a parasite and it caused a lot of inflammation in his bowel so he is still recovering maybe- I don’t know what it is at this point but I’m considering going to a specialist to get a second opinion and do some bloodwork. Merlin was an outdoor cat for at least two years or so after he was dumped so there could’ve been many things that he was exposed to that caused problems with his bowels. However he is the only cat that I have taken in from outside who has had this problem.

Here is a link for their diet. I use the chicken recipe for raw meat but I cook the chicken and I use the supplement that has what is necessary when you don’t use raw meat with bone. I have to cook and add the liver and because it doesn’t have that either.


Know What You Feed - A Guide To A Balanced Homemade Cat Food
 
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Meowmee

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Checking in back here. It's been about a month since Ryder has been Giardia free but his stool is still soft and end parts of stool is loose and stinky. I thought it was his wet food, so I experimented with different proteins, different gums (he won't eat the few wet foods without gums), but nothing was working, so I took him back to the vet. He was put back on to the metronidizole for two weeks and got bloodwork done to test B12/Folate levels and given prescription food. I gave him his first dose of metro on Thursday night and after about 2 hours his stool was solid, low res, and not stinky. It's now been about 36 hours since he pooped. He generally goes once a day and doesn't go this long without having a bowel movement and doesn't look like he has any urge to go. He's been on metro before to get rid of his Giardia and he didn't have this issue before. Should I contact my vet again if he hasn't pooped in 2 days? Not sure at what point I should really be concerned about the lack of pooping.2 questions:
1) I'm not thrilled with his prescription food. It's Hills I/D sensitive stomach wet and dry. It just seems unhealthy given all the nutrition info I've read at this site. Is it necessary to give him the Hills food?
2) Is constipation a side effect of Metro?
I forgot to say,I would just wait for him to poop and see how it is. And then think about doing the home cooked diet with a slow transition. There are so many additives and things cats should not be eating in commercial diets.
 

Meowmee

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Great news, thanks for the update.

:( Poor Jezebel. I would contact a vet before administering any medications etc. You may want to try to trap her. Ughhhh, it is always something.

That is a good question. I typically use different proteins and try to see that way. Sometimes a drastic change can cause issues as well. I am just not an expert on dietary things/allergies etc. You may want to post on the other section (food or health) and see what people with better experience think. Poor guy.

Good news it came back negative. Let's hope it is accurate. I hope you feel better soon as well. Yes, hopefully his tummy will feel better. Those medications can be hard on the tummy etc. That is so strange the vet doesn't call back. Ridiculous.

Hang in there. It is easy to look in the past and blame ourselves. BUT we don;t know. I actually had a cat come by I haven't see in probably a year. He is a big male but still, we have a lot of predators. I think she is more resourceful than you think. I would check animal control as someone may have trapped her. Other than that just keep an eye out for her. PLEASE do not be hard on yourself, This is not easy.

:( Medicine/health is so complicated..................

Hang in there. I know it is frustrating etc but every day I think you are learning more. Let's hope the good is going to happen soon. AND the vet call back!!!
Well, it looks like cinnamon is really recovering on his own, he is barely limping now so no need to trap him and I think Jez is ok too since she is still coming to eat etc. If she recovered from that other event I am sure she can recover from this. But of course I am keeping a close eye on them. They would both be very difficult to catch because they are the most fearful. I am hesitant to call ac about anything as I don’t want to draw attention to my wherabouts and my outdoor cats etc. no sign of Zena. I am also worried because a few days ago a strange man was walking early am on our property- not long after I had responded to a post on nextdoor about Zena. I have security cams to monitor my cats but they are not fool proof as they only record a certain amount and have to be triggered again etc. But I saved that tape of course. Zena doesn't seem to trigger the cam much because she is so dark maybe, I only have two recordings of her. I still call for her every night just incase.

I will try another one, first I have to post about a chip door for my studio to stop Quinn from using Merlin’s LB. As I said the other post I made was not much use at all though, they just said the same thing and or tried to suggest probiotics that had already failed and a raw diet. I don’t know what other proteins I can do except turkey which the dvm said is the same as chicken in terms of allergy or lamb which is not available to me at the stores I shop at. I really dont like the idea of lamb etc. and red meat and fish are supposed to be bad. Plus I don’t want to change Quinn’s diet because he may have trouble and I don’t know if I can do two different ones. It really is a lot of work. I wonder if there is a way to make it easier. And with two cats they are going through it like crazy even though I am making twice as much as usual and freezing some.

I don’t know what is going on with this dvm or why the communication is basically non existent and inadequate. I just wonder if anyone else will be any better. I feel often once they have payment for tests etc they forget about you, or at least this one does most of the time. they do not care all that much about what is happening with Merlin or they would respond. Just like the hopsital that sent M home covered in feces did not respond to my call asking to speak with the manager. They simply do not care because they know they can get away with it. There is 0 true oversight. I should have tried to stop payment but that would have probably got me sent to a collection agency. They have my review though and they have lost my biz forever. I hope I at least warned a few people away from them. They have numerous terrible reviews but I am sure desperate people will still be going there at 2 am. Medicine is hard but there are also lot of not so great people in medicine, sadly I have experienced it numerous times.

I really do not trust those tests because when I came back from Cancun very ill and most defintely had something, Giardia I am sure, it tested negative but responded to a medicine my friend’s doc father gave me because a clinic I went to refused to to treat it. My friend who I traveled with who was also sick was treated by her doc and also responded.

yep I am still hoping for him to recover, I will let him out of isolation soon after the test etc. I guess when I drop off the stool test, the dvm or someone there will have to call me with a result at least. he has regressed a bit maybe as I think he is lonely poor thing. I just hope he learns how to really integrate into the house since he never has yet. I will try not to be so hard on myself, but Zena weighs heavy on me. I also had a cat who vanished for a year, little cat, she was my first that I fed outside and led to this whole thing, I was sure she passed and then a few weeks ago she started eating here again now and then. I hope someone took her in maybe but she still goes out and comes to eat. She is a lot thinner. I was overjoyed to see her. She actually used to knock on the door for food 💕😹 And she hung out with me in the garden too.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Great info and advice to Juju521.

So good to hear about the other ferals recovering.

Totally understand on the concerns about animal control. Best to stay under the radar. But do they have a website? I would check. Also, I think you can probably stay anonymous (block your number when you call) and you can ask if they picked up a cat like Zena. Sadly, if they do and a cat is not claimed bad things can happen if they are deemed "aggressive" etc. And what cat is happy about going to animal control?

Yikes, coincidence about the post and the strange man? Ughhhhhhh.

I know, it is really hard. I agree with you on lamb, red meat, fish. You could try duck or rabbit (which I hate feeding as well but........). Maybe duck is in the same realm as chicken and turkey. :/ Mouse is sadly not an option. :( I am not even sure where to get good advice for options sadly.

It is terrible you are not getting good service. I would definitely try to find someone else. But I know in some communities there are not many options. It is just terrible.

I wonder if it stress that is causing his regression. Do work on introducing him. I didn't realize he wasn't integrated into the house before. I would definitely do some work to make sure all goes well. Especially since he may not feel so well so may lack a little confidence.

I know. It is a combination of tests, experience, perseverance. Giving up is not the answer, always searching for the answer (until fixed) is best.

I know, it is very hard. But it is not your fault and you can't create miracles. We are only human. I don't think you made any mistakes. Who knows if she would have gone in the trap? I know it is just us being us. But hopefully she will get hungry and come back. They do have good memories. Just like your little cat. All we can do is our best. It breaks my heart I can't take in mine. They are so sweet and I know the result of them not being in is worse than being in. But what can we do? Only our best. Doesn't mean we don't get sad, cry, have broken hearts. But we have to overcome and move forward and just do our best.
 

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QUOTE="calicosrspecial, post: 5088833, member: 101870"]
Great info and advice to Juju521.

So good to hear about the other ferals recovering.

Totally understand on the concerns about animal control. Best to stay under the radar. But do they have a website? I would check. Also, I think you can probably stay anonymous (block your number when you call) and you can ask if they picked up a cat like Zena. Sadly, if they do and a cat is not claimed bad things can happen if they are deemed "aggressive" etc. And what cat is happy about going to animal control?

Yikes, coincidence about the post and the strange man? Ughhhhhhh.

I know, it is really hard. I agree with you on lamb, red meat, fish. You could try duck or rabbit (which I hate feeding as well but........). Maybe duck is in the same realm as chicken and turkey. :/ Mouse is sadly not an option. :( I am not even sure where to get good advice for options sadly.

It is terrible you are not getting good service. I would definitely try to find someone else. But I know in some communities there are not many options. It is just terrible.

I wonder if it stress that is causing his regression. Do work on introducing him. I didn't realize he wasn't integrated into the house before. I would definitely do some work to make sure all goes well. Especially since he may not feel so well so may lack a little confidence.

I know. It is a combination of tests, experience, perseverance. Giving up is not the answer, always searching for the answer (until fixed) is best.

I know, it is very hard. But it is not your fault and you can't create miracles. We are only human. I don't think you made any mistakes. Who knows if she would have gone in the trap? I know it is just us being us. But hopefully she will get hungry and come back. They do have good memories. Just like your little cat. All we can do is our best. It breaks my heart I can't take in mine. They are so sweet and I know the result of them not being in is worse than being in. But what can we do? Only our best. Doesn't mean we don't get sad, cry, have broken hearts. But we have to overcome and move forward and just do our best.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I hope she comes back to read it.

Yes I am so relieved and amazed how they can recover so quickly etc. with no medical help. I too feel so terrible they are all out there struggling for all these years. Two girls were already tipped and I don't know where they came from. I can’t take them all in either but wish I could get homes for them if they can be tamed etc. It would have been so much kinder if the people who dumped and abandoned them took them to a shelter even if they were euthanized imo.

I had not thought of blocking my number but I will try. The town shelter does not put kitties etc taken in on a website and they seem to have little interest In abandoned cats. But how would I know which shelter she is even at if someone did trap her etc? I remember calling them years ago about one kitty I had tnr and eventually released. I wanted to list the cat as lost and they basically told me oh it’s just someone’s stray cat like they could care less! This is why I have little faith in a lot of these organizations.

I am hoping he had nothing to do with cats etc. maybe his dog was loose? I am wondering why he didn't knock on the door etc.
Well I am not giving up obviously, I just don’t know how much longer my sanity and my health is going to hold up with all of this. I have cared for my cats when they were in much worse condition with several conditions, but I think this is the worst I have ever felt maybe.

I don’t know how I’m going to get rabbit here though. I basically just go buy the chicken at whole foods and cook it etc. Assuming I am going to change them to another protein I guess I will wait and see if I ever speak to a Dvm about it. I think the best course for now is just to keep him on the steroid, keep feeding him the same diet and just see if he gradually gets better. He did have normal poop for three days so that’s a sign that maybe he can go back to that, maybe his gut just needs to recover from all these courses of antibiotics etc. I remember reading a post years ago where someone said she fed her cat nothing but chicken liver and honeydew melon his entire life. He was an indoor cat and he lived to be into his 20s!

Merlin was just starting to integrate into the house at the point that he tested positive for C diff. At that point DVM said it was possible Quinn could catch it so I decided I better put him back in isolation. I find it very odd that he said it’s possible that Quinn could catch C diff from him but he doesn’t think they need to be isolated. as I mentioned in my message, the DVM who did the ultrasound did not even think that CD is causing his diarrhea.

That was also around the time that I had started scruffing him and had managed to stop him from nipping at me etc. I don’t know it’s all a blur now, this is been going on for four or five months now😳
he was starting to be allowed out of the studio at night and he could come into the TV room but he did venture in so he would sometimes sit with Quinn and me there. But everyone else was asleep and if anyone happened to come down for a snack he would run away. So he’s not really integrated into the whole household and he has never been upstairs.

From the time he was trapped he has been in the studio most of the time, he likes roaming around in the garage looking for mice and stuff like that but I think he’s still gonna be a little hesitant about coming into the house. I’m hoping he’ll just adjust and eventually be a real part of the family. Just earlier today when I was leaving I was in a hurry and I knocked over a bag of extra toy parts in the studio and he got nervous and hissed, he didn’t become aggressive at all, but it just shows how jumpy he can be. He also hisses at his toys when he’s playing at them which is actually very cute. I imagine it comes from having been outside and worrying about all of these predators around him.

Part of the problem was Quinn was jumping on him and humping him, trying to control him etc. and maybe he feels more comfortable with M in the studio although he gets upset when he can’t see him and he goes out and yowels by the door because he doesn’t get to see Merlin now etc. There was one night a long time ago Merlin actually went all the way through the downstairs but he’s never gone upstairs. I think when he did that I was trying to get him back into the studio because he really wasn’t supposed to be loose in the house at that point.

I am so exhausted by all of this and I don’t know if I have the energy but I’m just hoping it all goes smoothly without me doing too much. Any ideas on what to do? If he at least had a normal poop that would be one less thing that I have to worry about. I am trying to find a chip door so Quinn cannot go in there and use his litter box and I don’t have to worry about things like that. None of them have all good reviews and I guess I’m just going to have to settle for one of them and hope Quinn doesn’t break it😹



I need to figure this out soon because they told me the test results could be back by tomorrow. Of course that doesn’t mean I have to let them be together right away. But I think it’s time, I don’t want to wait too much longer.. I don’t know how much of a roll stress is playing it it’s hard to tell. I think he was used to spending some time with Quinn and he misses that now.

I mean he’s been fearful because he’s had a huge change in his life. He was outside with his brother, Marlon vanished etc. he was on his own and then he became very bonded to me outside and then we went through the whole thing with him biting me etc. and then he was trapped again and brought inside- that’s going to cause stress.
He does not show interest in going outside again now. But he likes to look out the window. One of the times that he was in the TV room I opened the door to feed the outdoor cats- it was very cold that day and he ran away from the door. I am a little bit worried about what I’m going to do if he escapes because I did not get him chipped yet. I guess I’m gonna have to try to get him to wear a collar for a while until I can do that.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Yes, that is the issue with having too many "paths" on a thread. :/ Hopefully she does see your info and advice.

Cats are resourceful and with good food and water and shelter can be strong. I know, it is hard to see them out there. BUT what is the other option? We can't take them all in and we can't find them homes. Everyone is full or allergic (ie husband doesn't want a cat :( ........). I am not into euthanizing unless they are ill etc. And other cats will just fill in the void. My ferals have a great life other than the predators. They eat better than most housecats, are treated better, loved more, etc. I am guessing yours are as well. If the cats are happy then I think we are doing the right thing. I guess it would be much better if people were more responsible but that is asking a lot. They can't take care of their kids or themselves so an animal .....................................

:( That makes it more difficult if they don't do websites, etc. Sounds like a difficult situation. Ughhhhhhhhh

:( You have to focus on yourself first and your health. I know, it is hard to compartmentalize things but sometimes we have to. There is too much sadness and heartbreak in what we do. :( And it can be extremely difficult on our mental and physical health. Being aware of the risks should help you navigate the challenges.

Well, that is good he is maybe a little better. Yes, I don;t think you need to rush AND speaking to the vet is really important. Then you can try certain things. I think your plan of doing the same thing is a good plan. Let's hope he stabilizes and gets over all these changes etc.

We can integrate him, I am not worried about that. We just would do an intro.

Yes, that is normal. We'll build his confidence and trust and he will be fine. Personally I think 99.99999% of the time an intro fails it is because of the human. I don't worry about you as a risk.

Yes, we need to go through the intro process and get them integrated.

We will have to keep them separated and feed on opposite sides of the door and making a positive association and then take it one step at a time. While building their confidence through Play, Food, Height and Love. A confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted. Don't worry, we can intro them. I just want him to be healthy.

Stress can cause issues. Really work on building confidence as soon as you can. I would not have them meeting face to face yet.

All my cats in my life have been ferals. Some older ones I brought in and some younger (a yearish). I deal with ferals all the time and you have great experience. He sounds like a great cat so I am not worried. He just needs to build some confidence and trust will come along. I think it is all about the human. You are a positive in making it work.

Just be really careful about the door. Most of my ferals will run from the door but I never take a chance. I wouldn't put a collar on as it is risky if he does go outside. It can hook on something. Just be cognizant.

You mentioned Merlin goes in the garage. Is there anything in there that could be a hazard? Or does water seep in anywhere? Personally I would try to keep him out of there as sometimes garages can have risks and elements that can cause issues.

Hang in there, we can handle the behavioral stuff. I am not at all worried. Hopefully his health is on the mend.
 
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juju521

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So glad he is giardia free.

Was he going multiple times a day? Soft? Did he look like he was having discomfort when going?

I believe metro does firm things up. I am not an expert but 36 hours is not all that uncommon but I would contact the vet and let them know and continue monitoring him.

Has he been eating the same amounts? It could also be the new food as that is meant to help.

At this point I wouldn't worry about the Hills I/D as it should be a short term solution (hopefully). I personally would continue following the vet's directions and speak to the vet about your concerns. Sometimes animals have some reaction to something in foods so sometimes these vet foods seem to help stabilize things. I know vet's like to push those foods and vet's don't always know much about nutrition but I know it has helped mine stabilize certain situations over time. And then a shift back to a "better" food can be accomplished.

I am not sure constipation is a side effect but I am guessing it may be. But ask your vet. A vet should be willing to answer any questions you have so you should always feel free to call and ask them any questions. It is best to get answers from vet's. And never feel like you can't get second opinions. Dealing with animals is not easy. :/

Sorry for not being more helpful. Hopefully others can answer better. Thank you for the update and I am so glad he is giardia free.
Your response was helpful! Ryder pooped after about 3.5 days but has gone 2 days in a row since then. He's currently on the metro and I've been transitioning him to the Hills this past week. His poop is still very soft and extra smelly. Not sure if that's because of the food transition. I guess i'll see in a week. I got the blood test results back and his B12/Folate levels are normal which is a relief. Maybe the giardia just really messed him up. He did have it for 3 months. My vet said to check back in after the metro is done and and continue with the food for another two weeks and check back in again. Hoping this clears up soon because the Hills dry is very carb heavy and high calorie and he eats alot! He's getting chunky in his stomach area,and I would like to resume giving him wet food (he refuses the I/D wet food - he hates chicken) and less dry.
 

calicosrspecial

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So glad to hear he is back to going normal.

Food transition can do that thought eh food he is on should be firming things up (as well as the metro). His intestines may still be recovering. Did the vet say his intestines were "thick" at all?

So glad to hear his B12/Folate are normal.

Yes, the giardia can mess them up and cause some thickening and inflammation etc. I am guessing he still has some irritation/inflammation and that is causing him the softer and extra smelly (as well as the food change). Between the food, metro, and time it should firm up. Sounds like the vet is good so if there are any issues you can tackle them.

Yes, they do tend to like that food. He can always lose the weight in the future. Just make sure he drinks enough.

Just curious, what proteins do you give him since he does not like chicken?

So glad to hear he is on the mend. Let us know how he is doing. Hopefully on the way to normal again soon.
 

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the door. Most of my ferals will run from the door but I never take a chance. I[/QUOTE]


Well she did not respond but I don’t think it is because it is hard to see, if you respond directly to someone they get a notice and it is at the end of the thread. I guess she only found your input helpful😹

I am not advocating to euthanize outdoor cats etc but maybe because I live in a much colder climate I am seeing a lot more suffering. I do think it would be better than them being dumped and having to live out there freezing. I see them suffering due to the cold, predators, fighting with each and numerous health issues so I can't see it as a great life for them. All because of cruel humans. It is very hard to watch when I know me and my kitties are warm and toasty inside and well cared for. And I am not going to excuse people for any reason, they need to suffer legal consequences and huge fines for dumping animals outside, they never do, my outdoor kitties definitely don’t have a better life than my indoor kitties for sure.

Sadly I think Zena is gone forever😿

Merlin’s pcr test was neg, staff left a message, and once again dvm did not contact me after that long convo with staff, what a joke. I am sitting here waiting for him to call, after calling to ask once again, waist of my time because I already know he won’t.

They have already been face to face and been partially integrated, so no point in that again unless they start damaging each other which they never have. Not possible to do the feed by the door thing, the cat genie is right next to the door and it is all in the garage. They were eating together sometimes in the kitchen at some point, but it was hard to coax Merlin in there. None of that has stopped Quinn from humping Merlin etc. though LOL. Quinn is a very dominant cat, nothing stopped him from jumping on Sybil either.

The garage is pretty much safety proofed, if Quinn can survive it I’m sure Merlin can after surviving being outside for two years. I’m still not sure about what to do about this chip door situation none of the doors are satisfactory to me, they are very expensive and I don’t want to get stuck with a door that doesn’t work. But I don’t want Quinn using his box even though the test was negative because I don’t really trust it.

I am so sick of all of this. 4 months of runs and still NO real answers or treatments that work! After thousands spent on visits, tests, and meds. I knew this was going to happen as soon as dvm started pushing for ultrasound etc. but I thought at least I would have a dvm that communicated something. Lol

They have a website but it does not list animals turned in only some that are up for adoption. It is not a great site, hard to navigate etc. That is great that you have done so much for your feral kitties, you are a great person!

* forgot to say I will use a beastie band for him until he is chipped, that is the only collar I have used for years, they are soft, close with velcro and will come off if caught on something. I hope it is big enough for him though.
 
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calicosrspecial

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I hope she saw yours. Is that how it works? No wonder why some threads I follow don't always give me an update so I don't see where things are. :/

No, I am not suggesting you are. It is hard and suffering is not good. And if a cat can have 2 good years is it worth it for a bad 5 minute ending? I don't have the answers really. I think I may but in reality I don't. But you are right, predators, weather, fights over territory, food, illness, etc. I too feel guilty about how we have it and how the outside cats do (and my colony has it better than other ferals so there are differences there). But when I see my ferals (or others) enjoying food or rubbing on me or walking tails up or playing it isn't all negative, But when the coyotes come then I wonder. I totally agree the humans should be held accountable. It is despicable that someone would do that to any living thing. At least cats are more resourceful which is good. But it is far from good sadly.

I don't think so. Hang in there and keep the faith.

:yess: :hyper: :clap2: Awesome!!! I wish the vet would call, that is ridiculous.

Just make positive associations and try to make every encounter as positive as possible and work on building their confidence and territorial security.

I hear you. Hopefully you find a good door that will be acceptable. Remember he will clean himself etc and drink out of the same bowl etc so impossible to totally eliminate risk. :/

:( I know. I am so proud of you for standing by him. It is not easy on so many fronts.

:( Yes, not a great site sadly. Makes it difficult.

Awwwwww, thanks. Same with you!!!

Great. Hopefully he just stays away from the door. That solves everything. :) My oldest jumped out one day since she is a brat and she froze and ran right back in. She spent 6 months at that door trying to get in and then she jumps out but it lasted 5 seconds. She never did it again. My others never did that, they know they have it too good.
 
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