Overwhelmed by Giardia

Meowmee

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How long should should I expect the soft stool and diarrhea to continue while he's recovering? Ryder had diarhhea again this morning after a 4 day stretch of solid stool. Trying to get a gauge of how long this should continue before reaching out to my vet again. 10 days per the previous post sounds like a good length of time, but I've read other posts where it took many weeks to get back on track. I'm giving him a Proviable everyday hoping that it'll help firm him up.
Unfortunately I don’t know, sorry. My cats never had runs for that long except Merlin. Quinn had it on and off when he was a kitten after flea poison. I cured him with a home cooked diet but he always responded to flagyl after two doses. He could not tolerate any commercial diets except fussie cat low sodium. My cats that actually had giardia had no symptoms and they tested negative after one course of Flagyl. I had terrible cramps at that time I was only able to take one day of Flagyl and I felt like I was being poisoned but it did seem to help a bit. Angie had that once as a kitten as well, she had some runs but she responded well to one round of Flagyl and it never came back.

Sorry he had more soft poop. Maybe try some psyllium husk as well? I am hoping it is just a matter of time and he will go back totally to normal. And you can wake up from the nightmare of never ending soft poop. I am praying that your kitties are going to get better very soon!

I agree 10 days I definitely would be on the phone with DVM again. It could be they or just Ryder may need another course of treatment. Because Giardia can be resistant. I had Giardia once after going to Cancun. I was very ill but when I came home the clinic I went to would not give me any treatment because my test was negative. However one of my friends whose father is a doctor gave me something to take and it helped within a few hours. She used to take that when she went back to Taiwan and got ill with giardia or something similar.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Thanks...Actually all antibiotics are known to cause runs as a side effect because they kill the good bacteria in your intestines as well as bad. But clavamox, which is the same as augmentin, what I took when Merlin bit me, and which also contains clavulanic acid to enhance the ab action by stopping the bacteria from deactivating the amoxycillin, can cause, I read, even worse runs than usual. And yes if they mixed the wrong dose to start he could have gotten a bit much the first three days and it is very hard to say what is going on, but his runs got worse again. So frustrating.

I am trying my best to keep stress levels down of course. It is not easy. Also Quinn is a very badly behaved little siamese at times and needs frequent verbal reminders etc. I think M enjoys when I tell Quinn to stop what he is doing mostly though lol. M is already a pretty type A stressed cat compared to many I have rescued from outside due in large part to him not being totally tame and I suspect bringing him inside may have helped bring out whatever is going on now if it is indeed an inflammatory or immune type of illness because that type of illness in a cat can be affected by the hormone stress response to something major like being trapped and brought inside after living outside etc. He has calmed a bit in spite of everything and I doubt that my stress is the cause of his diarrhea or even making it get worse. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I am still at a loss as to why for one day he had very hard dried out poop and then all of a sudden it went back to mush again. Each time it gets harder I have such hope we are finally turning a corner.

I just started him on the tylosan today which needs to be given 3 x a day, ugh. Still pure mush here. I know already fecal transplants are used in both people and cats etc for c diff. I wonder if that is worth a shot too? I have not had time to return the rest of the clavamox yet or talk with dvm office.
VERY frustrating but you have a handle on it. It sounds like maybe there is a reason for the issues.

Yes, I take in ferals solely and take in older ones and that change can cause stress and therefore issues. Some cats are just more anxious than others. And axiety/stress can exacerbate issues that existed.

Maybe getting harder once in a while is a sign it is starting to improve? I hope so!!

Hang in there. I wish I had some helpful info but it sure sounds like you are learning and doing your best. Fingers crossed you are onto something now!!
 

Meowmee

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VERY frustrating but you have a handle on it. It sounds like maybe there is a reason for the issues.

Yes, I take in ferals solely and take in older ones and that change can cause stress and therefore issues. Some cats are just more anxious than others. And axiety/stress can exacerbate issues that existed.

Maybe getting harder once in a while is a sign it is starting to improve? I hope so!!

Hang in there. I wish I had some helpful info but it sure sounds like you are learning and doing your best. Fingers crossed you are onto something now!!
Well so far it has gone back to pure liquid 2 x per day now. Ugh. Tylosin is not helping yet anyway. I am very worried now about transmission of cd to my father, Quinn and myself. I am being careful but it is very hard to kill CD spores, only bleach will do it and it needs 5 minute wet exposure, 1:10 bleach/ water. I can’t see myself bleaching everything every day for an indefinite amount of time. Seems like there is no end to this. So far at least, Quinn is not affected at all. I have ordered some wipes and a premixed special chlorox germicidal bleach cleanser.

Hospitals use the wipes because they are more effective than a spray apparenty. Washing your hands constantly with soap and water helps as well because it will remove the spores but it will not kill them on surfaces to wash with soap and water. I have been wearing gloves, disposing of them in a sterile manner and then washing my hands after which is what they say to do. But I’m sure there could be spores all over the place anyway. I am going back to feeding Merlin on paper plates only which can be thrown away immediately.

I returned the clavamox today and asked for a dvm to call me, the dvm there didn't call, hopefully the regulat dvm will asap. I am confused about the test results because it says tests for A & B toxins are pending but it also says positive for A & B. So I don’t know if he actually has this because it says if he’s positive for both toxins of CD then that could be causing his diarrhea. Very confusing.
 
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calicosrspecial

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:( How long does it typically take for Tylosin to start working?

I can understand the worry about transmission. I would ask the vet but when I faced Giardia (and I was more worried about transmission to the other cats then to humans rightly or wrongly) I kept her totally isolated and in a small area with minimal soft surfaces in order to make the cleaning and risk of transmission less. She didn't like it and it was less than ideal but I had to do what I thought was best for everyone. Again, rightly or wrongly. I would ask the vet about what can be done to limit transmission risk.

I just don't know enough about the spores,etc.

:( Yes, very confusing.

I feel for you. It sounds like if anyone can beat this you can. I would keep trying to speak to the vet. Hopefully they can explain how much risk there is etc. I know with Giardia I was freaked out but got through it through proper handling, cleaning, etc. This sounds more difficult but getting an experts opinion on the difficulty is always best.

I wish you the best. I wish I could help other than moral support. But this thread will hopefully help others if they face this.
 

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:( How long does it typically take for Tylosin to start working?

I can understand the worry about transmission. I would ask the vet but when I faced Giardia (and I was more worried about transmission to the other cats then to humans rightly or wrongly) I kept her totally isolated and in a small area with minimal soft surfaces in order to make the cleaning and risk of transmission less. She didn't like it and it was less than ideal but I had to do what I thought was best for everyone. Again, rightly or wrongly. I would ask the vet about what can be done to limit transmission risk.

I just don't know enough about the spores,etc.

:( Yes, very confusing.

I feel for you. It sounds like if anyone can beat this you can. I would keep trying to speak to the vet. Hopefully they can explain how much risk there is etc. I know with Giardia I was freaked out but got through it through proper handling, cleaning, etc. This sounds more difficult but getting an experts opinion on the difficulty is always best.

I wish you the best. I wish I could help other than moral support. But this thread will hopefully help others if they face this.
Thanks. I will answer more later. Just at er with Merlin. His tum was distended and hard and he had not pooped or peed for nearly a day. When I got here the seatbelt was wet cause he had explosive poop etc on the way here and it is all over my coat etc. not sure how I can clean and sterilize my car, any ideas? I did not realize he had pooped because it smelled different, not like poop at all and I think it was from s boulardi.
They were just going to send him home too apparently without telling me he had poop all over him and allover carrier, no charge. Doing xrays here because I want to make sure nothing else is wrong. I am astounded they would do that at all much less knowing he had c diff which is so contagious? When I saw dvm she said belly was ok etc but failed to first mention he had explosive D which would have relieved the pressure. So Weird. She also said he must have been peeing somewhere other than the new lb( I got a large covered one to try to contain the Litter and spread of spores etc. and had sterilized all the other ones) but I am positive he did not pee anywhere else- I would have smelled it and seen it. He drank a lot of water so he must have been dehydrated.

He is being mildly sedated to do x rays and I asked if they can clean him and sterilize his carrier etc. Was told they don’t really do that at the er but they will try? W t f smh. So you send your patients with contagions all over them and their carriers home uncleaned? Exposing everyone?
I feel like I am in the twilight zone from hell.
Someone also asked me if it was a guess he had cdiff. 🤯
 
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calicosrspecial

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:( Oh my. I am SO SORRY.

I am not sure how to clean the car. When you have time I would make another post to see if others have ideas.

I have no idea why the vet wasn't more cautious. Maybe lack of experience with c diff? I know they are busy but they should be more hygienic. :(

I am so sorry. I wish I had answers. I would make specific posts so that people with experience (and I am sure you are not the only one this has happened to) can see it and then reply.

Hang in there. You are a hero to him. You are really going all out for him which I so admire!!
 

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:( Oh my. I am SO SORRY.

I am not sure how to clean the car. When you have time I would make another post to see if others have ideas.

I have no idea why the vet wasn't more cautious. Maybe lack of experience with c diff? I know they are busy but they should be more hygienic. :(

I am so sorry. I wish I had answers. I would make specific posts so that people with experience (and I am sure you are not the only one this has happened to) can see it and then reply.

Hang in there. You are a hero to him. You are really going all out for him which I so admire!!
Thanks.

You know there is no excuse to leave a cat etc with feces on them. Doesn't matter what the contagions are and any dvm should know about c difficile. It is well known how it is transmitted and hospitals and docs are required to know about this and protect patients and everyone. Just says not only are we incompetent but we also don't care.

I poured scoe on my car seat, will call them in the am. Someone at the manufacturer thinks it will kill it because it works the way probiotics do killing bacteria. It is a probiotic and the only odor eliminator for pee etc I have ever found that works. Then I will get the whole car professionally steam cleaned. I read that steam kills the cd spores in seconds. I hope it works on upholstery. I am kicking myself that I was so stressed and worried about Merlin that I forgot to put towels and plastic under his carrier.

I can hardly believe this all happened. It got even worse. The dvm told me they had cleaned him and the carrier etc. So I get home, put M in the studio, he was so happy to be home, and start working on cleaning my car and everything that was contaminated etc. he escaped because Quinn broke the pet door and I didn’t realize it. Put him back and cover the door with cardboard etc. go back later to clean him and carrier again and see his back paws which are white are stained with poop😳😖 they had not properly cleaned him at all !!!! and it was still all over his tail, back, back paws, bum and tum. This is atrocious. Had they told me they had not properly cleaned him I would have brought him straight to the bathroom and washed him. I had noticed that his back and tail fur was ruffled and I thought it was the cleaner or wet fur etc.

I had to wash him on the floor of the studio with soap and water and pour water over him to rinse, took me an hour or more. I scruffed him while I did it and he pretty much let me although he swiped at me a few times. I could not lift him into the sink there and no make shift tub large enough. I was too exhausted to sterilize the floors etc and I am going to do that now, first with cleaner, bleach and I bought a steamer. I am ordering some rescue cleaner prolly with ahp which I read can also kill c diff.

I have never in my life seen anything like this where my cat was left and sent home with poop all over him. It is not ok under any circumstances. Complete negligence and horrible on so many levels. Quinn was growling at him and trying to attack him and it was largely due to the poop allover him I think. I can’t believe this really. I called them later and told them what happened because I wanted to speak with the manager. Should have not told them why because they will try to make up some story prolly. These people are not qualified to work in an er/ dvm etc. Talked to a tech my current dvm and she could not believe they told me we don’t do that in the ER! She said she had worked there for a while as well and it was not true. Told who I spoke with that they had contaminated the hospital, everyone there, me and a few rooms in my house now.

I can’t imagine any situation in which any med professional would think it was ok to have feces all over the patient even in all but the most extreme life threatening situations if you were going to do any procedure you would sterilize at least the area first if not the whole patient.

Merlin seems to be doing better now but I have scheduled us for next week. He ate a bit, gave him his meds but his tum is a bit swollen again maybe, will keep an eye and have to hope he will be ok until the us.
 
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calicosrspecial

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:( I hear you. Totally agree.

Yes, steam cleaning is very good I think. I only know about Giardia but I know steam kills giardia cysts. Don't kick yourself. I know. It is hard to think of everything when we are worried about there existence. :(

:( When it rains it pours. And I know how it feels like it is never ending. :(

Totally agree. Ughhhhhhhh. This is beyond awful.

I know especially knowing what he has.................... I don't get it either.

I am glad he is feeling better. I hope his tummy settles down. Do they know why he is getting swollen?

You are an angel. You are doing your best and sticking by him. This is not easy. I feel sorry for you both. I just hope he gets better soon. It is so frustrating.
 

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Thanks💕 so tired I will respond more later, was up all night tues cleaning floors etc. and up all night doing more now. the steamer is great, I just hope it is hot enough to work on the spores. I was reading that c diff spores in meat can survive a couple of hours or more of 165 degrees.

Dvm said it could be the s boulardi, or the steroid, some cats have an inflammatory response to the steroid. I just wonder what they treat them with that if that is what is happening here. I guess the ultrasound will tell us more hopefully.

I am still reeling from all of this. Thanks so much for your kind responses. I just am in shock they could be so cruel even without the contagious issue etc. to leave a fur-babe covered in feces. Manager did not call me. Just off to sleep. Just praying we are going to get through this.
 

calicosrspecial

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I am so sorry for the delayed response.

You are welcome. I WISH I had good advice or a magic wand to help solve this. I will say your level of knowledge and your dedication is not only impressive but also encouraging that you can get through this successfully.

I can imagine how exhausted you are. I know giardia cysts can last in soil etc for months and months but exposure to extreme heat kills it quickly. I hope C Diff is the same. I just sadly don't know.

:( Well, at least there is some idea of the cause. It is so tricky and complicated. :(

OH my, I can imagine. This is awful and I am sure exhausting. I can;t believe they let this happen either but my experience suggests it happens more often than we think (and even one time is too much). If there is anyone that can get through this I think you can. Your knowledge and determination will give you the best chances of success. i just wish I could help more than just listening. But always feel free to post (and vent if needed) any time. Hang in there, it does seem like you are making progress even though you may not think so. Sounds like you are narrowing in on the issues.
 

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I am so sorry for the delayed response.

You are welcome. I WISH I had good advice or a magic wand to help solve this. I will say your level of knowledge and your dedication is not only impressive but also encouraging that you can get through this successfully.

I can imagine how exhausted you are. I know giardia cysts can last in soil etc for months and months but exposure to extreme heat kills it quickly. I hope C Diff is the same. I just sadly don't know.

:( Well, at least there is some idea of the cause. It is so tricky and complicated. :(

OH my, I can imagine. This is awful and I am sure exhausting. I can;t believe they let this happen either but my experience suggests it happens more often than we think (and even one time is too much). If there is anyone that can get through this I think you can. Your knowledge and determination will give you the best chances of success. i just wish I could help more than just listening. But always feel free to post (and vent if needed) any time. Hang in there, it does seem like you are making progress even though you may not think so. Sounds like you are narrowing in on the issues.
Yes giardia is terrible... c diff is similar I think but even harder to kill maybe, I have to read more about it. C diff is more contagious apparently. And more dangerous for the elderly and immune compromised etc. not that either is good of course. It is easily killed with steam in seconds, not sure if giardia responds to steam.

Are you saying your cats were also sent home covered in feces? I think this is a new low for me, I have seen a lot and have had worse happen in terms of health consequences for my kitties but I have never had them left in feces and sent home like this. I will be making a formal complaint and I wrote a very bad review. Merlin has been such a trouper and he was so happy to be home even though he was covered in poop. he was purring and grateful.

He is scheduled for us Monday afternoon. He has gone back to one mush poop per day. I got more advice from a fb forum with a suggestion of rice gruel. I may try that after the us. I am not so sure about dvm doing us because I realize she was at this office before and is now doing us only. She had sold me a bunch of nonsense I returned, a supposedly new and improved collar to stop chewing which of course cat didn't need and would not wear, lol. but we will see. Hoping for answers but I am not expecting miracles.
 

calicosrspecial

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Yes, it sounds like it. :( I wonder how much C Diff is out there and undiagnosed. :( I know there is a lot of giardia out there undiagnosed. Yes, giardia responds to steam as well. I can't remember exactly but I think the shell of the cysts is destroyed something like 5 seconds.

Not mine but other people have faced that. :( It is sadly not uncommon. That is good you are making sure they are aware of their failure. The only way to get people to do something is to use our powers (which is ultimately use and payment for services). Cats are resilient. Good for Merlin!! And good for you for giving him a home he loves!!

Hopefully more progress is made. Fingers crossed. At least you are trying, hopefully there is some progress. You all deserve it!! Hang in there, things do work out I believe.
 

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Yes such a nightmare dealing with kitty being sick and the fear of transmitting it. I still cannot believe that actually happens, it is so revolting!

He had his ultrasound, no sedation and I spoke with the doc. She said all is normal except some mild thickening of bowels. No kidney abnormality as the er xr ray radiologist thought and his liver did not look big to her. I am so glad she was able to do it without sedation. That is a good sign he is calming a lot more and she is good with cats.

She thinks he may have a tritrichomonas parasite but not t foetus which was tested for twice on the pcr tests. I forgot to ask her which are the others and I can’t find anything about it. But she said they are super hard to test for. And she thought I should treat him with ronidazole. I am waiting to hear from the regular dvm there about getting it compounded as a liquid and to speak with him. Two days and no call back yet. I also forgot to ask her about the whole quarantine issue because I have Merlin back in quarantine now. Which he doesn’t like. He has been chewing the door by the cat door in his room which Quinn broke, and I spent about three hours putting up these poplar wood panels around it it so he couldn’t chew it and now he’s chewing them! I’m afraid he’s going to break his teeth. I am wondering if it is safe to put plexiglass up instead or if he will chew that too?

I’m just wondering if he’s been on Tylosin for about 10 days now that means that he’s not able to transmit c diff anymore? She did not think C diff is causing his diarrhea either. I wonder if it’s OK for him to be out of quarantine now? She said as I read that some cats have c diff in their system and it is not causing diarrhea however the PCR test and said he had the two c diff toxins. So I’m confused.

So many questions I forgot to ask her and I happened to be in Lowes when she called me with numerous loud speaker announcements so I could barely hear her. I also was not in the right frame of mind for such a detailed conversation because I had only had about four hours sleep and my blood sugar had crashed badly when I dropped him off there. She also said it could be inflammatory bowel but she thought I should stop the steroids since it doesn’t seem to be helping him. However the other DVM said it may take a few weeks of the steroid to help so I’m really not sure what to do.

Since the er hospital volcanic diarrhea event he’s only had one mush poop and then he did not poop at all for two days and then there have been two tiny mush poops. I just have him on a home cooked chicken and fussy cat chicken now. I gave him a little more food yesterday as I have been limiting it to try and help him but I feel like it was too little and I noticed he had more gas right after eating last night I think. I ordered for Tylosin and I’m wondering if I should just keep him on that too I don’t know hopefully I will speak to the DVM I have never had such a hard time getting a dvm on the phone wish I had written down all of my questions to ask her when I spoke with her but maybe I can get a phone number for her.

So here we are thousands of dollars later and I still really don’t know what is going on here. At least I know he doesn’t have something like cancer hopefully. But I think I’m going to try the rice gruel next maybe because someone on my Facebook groups said that helped her cat who had chronic diarrhea who was also an outdoor cat originally.

She also said that you can use herbal treatments instead of steroids for the inflammation if it is IBD. However the ones they sell there are only pills and I do not think I can pill him. After the explosive diarrhea after s boulardi and psyillium I am hesitant to try anything like that yet. If I ever see the end of his diarrhea I am going to have a big party!

Merlin showing off his tum etc last night.
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calicosrspecial

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:( Agreed.

I deal with a lot of ferals. I am starting to worry about being in contact with C Diff (unknowingly) and bringing it in. :( Sometimes ignorance is bliss. :/

That is really good!!!

It is so hard to be a vet. Let's hope she is onto something. Worth a try. Will be interesting to see what your other vet says. Yes, cats don;t like to be quarantined but sometimes it is necessary. I would give the plexiglass a try and just see if he does bite it. If he does it probably could be worse than wood so have to monitor. :(

Good questions, I don't know. Vet opinion is the best. This stuff is complicated. No absolutes sadly a lot of exceptions to the "common" rules. I can see where not all have symptoms (diarrhea). :/ Like I said, being a vet ir REALLY difficult. :(

It always happens that way it seems. :( Thickening could be IBS but could be other things. That is what makes it so hard. It really is trial and error. I too am not a fan of steroids but sometimes it does take a little time in my experience. I would just keep working with the vets. You may get conflicting opinions a lot but you should be narrowing things down a bit as time goes by.

Well that is good. Now it could be feeding less, change of diet BUT it could be that something (medicine) is working. It is so hard to know with so many moving pieces. It is so complex. It does sound like maybe things are better and maybe things are going to be better going forward. Fingers crossed!!

I know BUT I think you are making progress. Sure it isn't total clarity BUT it seems like things are getting better. I admire your dedication. For caring about him. Not many would sadly. :(

Yeah, that makes it hard to get him the treatments. :( Just keep talking to the vets and trying to eliminate things etc. It sounds like you are on the right track and making progress. Sometimes we go down roads that don't lead to success but eliminating things and keep trying can eventually get there. You DESERVE a party!!

Is Merlin ADORABLE or what?!?!?!?!?!?!?! LOVE him!!
 

Meowmee

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:( Agreed.

I deal with a lot of ferals. I am starting to worry about being in contact with C Diff (unknowingly) and bringing it in. :( Sometimes ignorance is bliss. :/

That is really good!!!

It is so hard to be a vet. Let's hope she is onto something. Worth a try. Will be interesting to see what your other vet says. Yes, cats don;t like to be quarantined but sometimes it is necessary. I would give the plexiglass a try and just see if he does bite it. If he does it probably could be worse than wood so have to monitor. :(

Good questions, I don't know. Vet opinion is the best. This stuff is complicated. No absolutes sadly a lot of exceptions to the "common" rules. I can see where not all have symptoms (diarrhea). :/ Like I said, being a vet ir REALLY difficult. :(

It always happens that way it seems. :( Thickening could be IBS but could be other things. That is what makes it so hard. It really is trial and error. I too am not a fan of steroids but sometimes it does take a little time in my experience. I would just keep working with the vets. You may get conflicting opinions a lot but you should be narrowing things down a bit as time goes by.

Well that is good. Now it could be feeding less, change of diet BUT it could be that something (medicine) is working. It is so hard to know with so many moving pieces. It is so complex. It does sound like maybe things are better and maybe things are going to be better going forward. Fingers crossed!!

I know BUT I think you are making progress. Sure it isn't total clarity BUT it seems like things are getting better. I admire your dedication. For caring about him. Not many would sadly. :(

Yeah, that makes it hard to get him the treatments. :( Just keep talking to the vets and trying to eliminate things etc. It sounds like you are on the right track and making progress. Sometimes we go down roads that don't lead to success but eliminating things and keep trying can eventually get there. You DESERVE a party!!

Is Merlin ADORABLE or what?!?!?!?!?!?!?! LOVE him!!
I am going to ask my doc to test me for c diff once I get a chance because my runs are worse and have cramps. I have ibs so hard to tell. I wear gloves when handling food dishes outside and for merlin and use paper plates, wash hands after etc. and merlin’s poop etc is going in the garbage only now in bags. That us great you help ferals too! So hard to do.

Yep I think plexi is worse. I am scared to try a spray cause it may poison him etc.

Yes true but many dvm do not do their job properly and r clueless about diagnosis but push expensive tests and treatments that often don’t give answers and don’t help. I have been left a week with several imp questions unanswered about quarantine, treatment and getting an rx filled after doing thousands $ in tests etc. yet if you don’t do a test immediately they write in record treatment declined. This is not ok and is bs! Time to up your game, be more knowledgable and communicate at least adequately enough to treat your patients in a timely manner instead of scheduling too many patients and pushing expensive stuff to rake in dollars and falling short etc. years ago a dvm told me Syb was going to be paralyzed if I didn't do very expensive surgeries on her hind legs. A total lie! She was fine and the issue went away as she grew.

I started giving him more food and he did have more runs plus I switched to wbcl which clumps better and it was hard to see what was poop, so I missed some. It seems to smell less maybe, not sure. But now no poop yet for a while. Maybe that is a good sign. Hope I make it to the party😹😳

Just re read this which says some cats with tritrich may resolve after 2 years, omg, very upsetting😿


Isn't he gorgeous? When he showed up I hated the fact that he was gonna prolly get ear tipped because he was so beautiful💕🐾
 
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Long time lurker who finally decided to create an account. =^..^=

Anyways, sorry that Merlin is experiencing diarrhea. One of my own cats experienced diarrhea for a better part of a year and I know how frustrating it can be.

I totally think it was outlandish that Merlin was sent home covered in stool. IMHO, you shouldn’t have even had to ask to have him cleaned. They should have just done it for you.

However, I don’t think your above statement about veterinarians is quite fair. Medicine as a whole is headed towards a test base approach. When I had a kidney stone a few years ago, a CT scan and ultrasound were performed. Human doctors don’t typically make diagnoses without test results to back them up. In veterinary medicine, an additional layer of complexity is added as the patients don’t speak. Veterinarians make their best guess based on physical exam and history to come up with a list of diagnoses. That list of diagnoses for diarrhea based solely on PE and history is quite exhausting – thus the need for testing to rule out diagnoses.

Here hopefully a helpful article I found on many different diarrheal diseases in cats.
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C. diff is first and they mention a type of clay that is used in horses to bind the C diff toxins. The article indicates that the clay can be used in cats as well.

Wishing you and Merlin the best!

Medical Disclaimer: My comments are not intended to be a substitute for professional veterinary advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your veterinarian with any questions you may have regarding your cat’s medical condition. Never disregard your veterinarian’s treatment or delay obtaining help because of something I have posted.
 

calicosrspecial

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I am going to ask my doc to test me for c diff once I get a chance because my runs are worse and have cramps. I have ibs so hard to tell. I wear gloves when handling food dishes outside and for merlin and use paper plates, wash hands after etc. and merlin’s poop etc is going in the garbage only now in bags. That us great you help ferals too! So hard to do.

Yep I think plexi is worse. I am scared to try a spray cause it may poison him etc.

Yes true but many dvm do not do their job properly and r clueless about diagnosis but push expensive tests and treatments that often don’t give answers and don’t help. I have been left a week with several imp questions unanswered about quarantine, treatment and getting an rx filled after doing thousands $ in tests etc. yet if you don’t do a test immediately they write in record treatment declined. This is not ok and is bs! Time to up your game, be more knowledgable and communicate at least adequately enough to treat your patients in a timely manner instead of scheduling too many patients and pushing expensive stuff to rake in dollars and falling short etc. years ago a dvm told me Syb was going to be paralyzed if I didn't do very expensive surgeries on her hind legs. A total lie! She was fine and the issue went away as she grew.

I started giving him more food and he did have more runs plus I switched to wbcl which clumps better and it was hard to see what was poop, so I missed some. It seems to smell less maybe, not sure. But now no poop yet for a while. Maybe that is a good sign. Hope I make it to the party😹😳

Just re read this which says some cats with tritrich may resolve after 2 years, omg, very upsetting😿

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Isn't he gorgeous? When he showed up I hated the fact that he was gonna prolly get ear tipped because he was so beautiful💕🐾
I think that is a good idea. It is always good to be tested. Sounds like you are doing everything I would do to reduce risk. Fingers crossed your symptoms are just stress and not anything else. :( Ferals are lovely. Hard but incredibly rewarding and enjoyable. A lot of sadness but a lot happiness as well. You know how it is.

:( It is hard to figure out.

It is frustrating. Luckily my vet responds quickly but I know not all do. I would just keep calling. It shouldn't be that way but it happens all the time. Ultimately taking your business elsewhere (if possible) might be necessary. I do think diagnosing is hard as BlackCatOp says. Some are just not very good, others are very good, for everyone it is really difficult to diagnose. It is really hard. With that said, they should communicate, they should weigh the pros and cons. Vets oftentimes will say we can do this and this and this and say we can confirm and treat with this or it is untreatable and if you say "well, what is the point?" they oftentimes say "we could just do this since if we know it really wouldn't change the treatment and the risk of treating this way is low" or whatever. I think all we can do is keep asking questions and figure it out. Some vets are in it for the money, some aren't. Like everything it takes time to evaluate them. And as BlackCatOp says, it is really hard to figure out, diagnose. :(

I am SO GLAD Syb was fine!!

:( Poor guy. I do think you are moving forward. Let's hope the party is near.

:( 2 years. Let's hope it can be solved sooner.

HE IS TOTALLY GORGEOUS!!! I actually didn't even realize he was ear tipped when I first looked at the pics. I looked back now and looked for it and saw it. Doesn't change my view, he is GORGEOUS!!!
 

RangersMom

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I'm a huge fan of Probiotics for bathroom issues in cats.

"Probiotics
such as FortiFlora improve the effectiveness of metronidazole and Panacur so we usually recommend you give a probiotic along with medication. "
 

Meowmee

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I'm a huge fan of Probiotics for bathroom issues in cats.

"Probiotics
such as FortiFlora improve the effectiveness of metronidazole and Panacur so we usually recommend you give a probiotic along with medication. "
unfortunately probiotics made Merlin worse and they also make me worse too. I will not be giving him any more of those or any type of grain fiber either.
 

Meowmee

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I think that is a good idea. It is always good to be tested. Sounds like you are doing everything I would do to reduce risk. Fingers crossed your symptoms are just stress and not anything else. :( Ferals are lovely. Hard but incredibly rewarding and enjoyable. A lot of sadness but a lot happiness as well. You know how it is.

:( It is hard to figure out.

It is frustrating. Luckily my vet responds quickly but I know not all do. I would just keep calling. It shouldn't be that way but it happens all the time. Ultimately taking your business elsewhere (if possible) might be necessary. I do think diagnosing is hard as BlackCatOp says. Some are just not very good, others are very good, for everyone it is really difficult to diagnose. It is really hard. With that said, they should communicate, they should weigh the pros and cons. Vets oftentimes will say we can do this and this and this and say we can confirm and treat with this or it is untreatable and if you say "well, what is the point?" they oftentimes say "we could just do this since if we know it really wouldn't change the treatment and the risk of treating this way is low" or whatever. I think all we can do is keep asking questions and figure it out. Some vets are in it for the money, some aren't. Like everything it takes time to evaluate them. And as BlackCatOp says, it is really hard to figure out, diagnose. :(

I am SO GLAD Syb was fine!!

:( Poor guy. I do think you are moving forward. Let's hope the party is near.

:( 2 years. Let's hope it can be solved sooner.

HE IS TOTALLY GORGEOUS!!! I actually didn't even realize he was ear tipped when I first looked at the pics. I looked back now and looked for it and saw it. Doesn't change my view, he is GORGEOUS!!!
Well I have some great news! Merlin had his first normal poop in several weeks Friday to Sat and another Sun😻 I am almost afraid to say it I’m just hoping he’s going to keep having normal poop.

Now the problem is to figure out what is helping. Could it be taking him off all the probiotics, the cannabis, the psyllium etc. or is he finally responding to the steroid? Or is he responding to the Tylosin? There is no way to know for sure. I am going to start reducing the steroid probably starting tomorrow the next day and I will assume if it comes back as the steroid is reduced then the steroid was probably largely responsible.
that would still not give me an answer as to whether it is CDF, a parasite or inflammatory bowel. Or a combo. Because they could all respond to that. It is interesting that he had been on the steroid for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks and did not respond but he started responding when he started taking Tylosin for about 10 days.

I guess it could also be that he has one of the tritrich parasites and he is just overcoming it himself. Or maybe he even has Giardia and the test was wrong and he’s overcoming that finally.

I am just so relieved I just hope this continues because each time I would think he was getting better it went right back to mush. He seems to be a little happier now too, not that he ever really seem like he was that sick, but he couldn’t possibly have been comfortable with all that gas and diarrhea etc.

yes I know diagnosis is hard but it is not so hard that it cannot be done, because I know there are very good DVM out there who are much better at it. Diagnosis is the most important thing, if you don’t know what you’re treating it’s pretty much hopeless if you have something like this or something serious. My criticisms are valid they are not unfair and they are based on many years of experience not only in the DVM world but in the human medical world as well. I have seen a lot of very gross negligence based on incompetence and worse. Most of them will never have any repercussions for what they do either. I’m talking about so many things but also just basic knowledge of major diseases like diabetes, there is so much ignorance it is just astounding to me. Lack of which nearly cost me my life.

Well I am still on my own here, in terms of advice, I still have not received a callback from the dvm which is really getting ridiculous at this point. In spite of calling again. I have to wonder with that other fiasco that happened with the screeching receptionist at this office if this DVM is avoiding me. They told me that he told them to tell me to leave that day when I was waiting for a prescription for an rx that had not have not been written.

But maybe in this case it was for the best because he seems to be responding to something now so I don’t think I will be giving him ronidazole as well unless he goes back to having runs again. I am worried that if he does have either Giardia, C diff or tritrich parasite that even if he is cleared of it he could still be a carrier and Quinn or me or my family could still be infected. I just wish I had someone that I trust really had knowledge, good knowledge, about this that I could ask about all of this and feel like I’m getting a reliable answer.

Another huge milestone happened yesterday also. Merlin let me clip his claws well his front claws anyway! I gave him some pieces of chicken as a treat and he was so happy. I am trying to figure out when I can ever get a hold of Dvm to let me know if I can take him out of isolation now. I asked if the Dvm who did his ultrasound had a phone number and they said they could ask her to contact me but I’m wondering if any of these messages get passed on or they’re just being ignored by the Dvm etc. maybe I’m going to have to go to DVM school myself LOL.

Well I was a lot more naïve back then so part of the reason Sybil ended up being OK was protective mom instinct. She had already been diagnosed with asthma at that point and I asked this Dvm if she would give her a gas sedation instead of injections and she said no. I told her that this was not safe for an asthmatic and I decided I was not going to do it on that basis alone. I was already suspicious though. I had plans to get another opinion on all of this and then I asked the lady who I adopted her from who was running a shelter that I volunteered with at that time about it.

She told me she had had another cat who had the same condition at six months and the surgery was totally unnecessary I should just leave it alone and she would outgrow it which is exactly what happened. So fortunately I did not spend thousands and thousands of dollars on unnecessary painful surgery that could’ve actually harmed Syb a lot. In that case we are not talking about something like someone who is not good at diagnosing etc. we are talking about somebody who is a charlatan and a fraud and who doesn’t care that they are going to cause harm etc.
 
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