You should be able to request this from your vet. It's a pretty standard lab test. Our vet uses Idexx (I think... maybe it's Antech). Both of those labs are widely used, and they both have that as a frequent service. In fact, our vet sends fecal samples out routinely instead of doing them in-house. Even the "annual parasite check" and "puppy-kitten" samples go to the lab. It's part of the wellness visit, and they send home a collection device for you to bring back as soon as you get a "donation". You pay for the test when you check out, and bring it back as soon as you can.Is this something I request from my vet or do I have to find an independent lab to do so?
I brought home a baby MC on 10/1 and he was ill with diarrhea 8x a day. My original vet wasn’t up to the task nor liked how much research I was doing. I asked for a PCR and it was negative. Little did I know that t. Foetus MUST be fresh sample (guess he didn’t either) and also with a smear it is difficult to tell the difference under microscope. You may want to consider a PCR and do not refrigerate poop. Either straight to vet and kept warm or fecal loop. Sometimes these infections run together. T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.Sometimes, Giardia is mistakenly diagnosed when the actual problem is another flagellate protozoan called Tritrichomonas foetus.
I feel for you, been dealing with runs for over a month now with Merlin with no clue what is even going on. I thought psyllium husk was finally helping him because he had some hard poop but the next poop it went right back to soft mush! I’m starting him on a steroid today because I don’t think anything else is going to work. All tests have been negative so far but I am doing another one drop off today or tomorrow. One normal float and probably a PCR for T foetus. It is so stressful. While I would not want to compare it to caring for Syb when she had heart disease / chf, kidney disease and liver failure I would say I am more stressed out maybe now than then.I'm not sure if I'm here for advice or moral support, but my two cats have tested positive for Giardia for the past 3 months. One of my cats has been through 1 round of Panacur and 1 round of Panacur/Metronidazole. My other cat has been through 2 rounds of Panacur and one round of Panacur/Metronidazole. It is the same routine everytime. I give them a round of medicine, their poop gets solid with low residue for 3-4 days then it turns to formed mushy or just soft piles of poop. I wipe their butts after they poop (if I'm home). I've been cleaning like a crazy person. I clorox wipe everything and lysol the floors. I threw away old scratching boards, toys, even a cat tree. I wash their blankets in hot water. I tried to give them a bath after their last round of medication. One of my cats went nuts and started hissing, so I ended up soaking him with a wet towel and tried rubbing him with the wet towel instead of soap. My other cat was a bit easier, but I couldn't keep her long still long enough to bathe her whole body. I've also been using grooming wipes to try wiping their paws and fur near their butt. I just got a steamer yesterday to supplement the cleaning.
It's been a week since I gave them their last dose of medicine and they're having loose stools again. I'm resigned to the fact that they'll test positive when i get them re-tested in another week. Is the bath part where I'm going wrong? I don't know what else to do and am really starting to get stressed out by how long this has been going on (not to mention the $$ I'm spending to treat this). Help?
So when you did your test for TF, was that sent out and it was not refrigerated? I am dealing with this now I took a sample day before yesterday and has been sitting in a glass jar in my studio at room temperature I am just wondering if I’m bringing it to the DVM are they going to refrigerate it before they send it out because I know they’re not going to do the test there. So I would like to know how your test was done. And if the cat is on a steroid will that affect these tests?I brought home a baby MC on 10/1 and he was ill with diarrhea 8x a day. My original vet wasn’t up to the task nor liked how much research I was doing. I asked for a PCR and it was negative. Little did I know that t. Foetus MUST be fresh sample (guess he didn’t either) and also with a smear it is difficult to tell the difference under microscope. You may want to consider a PCR and do not refrigerate poop. Either straight to vet and kept warm or fecal loop. Sometimes these infections run together. T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.
so I did anothe PCR with a new vet. WHO did not dismiss me and my research. I brought old vet records and documented a timeline. Also kept poop warm in a friggin coffee insulated mug. In a bag with warm water. I know that’s bizzare but I was tired of throwing money out the window and watching my kitten suffer. He didn’t have giardia or t. Foetus. He had a horrible infection from clostridium perfringens. But he was put on Tylan powder that day which can help firm poop quickly in cats and dogs. Wonder if you can do the panacur with that??? Idk. I wish I could be more help. But I agree with the steamer. It is helpful in killing infection and I believe also giardia. We are bleaching down his pan every 2/3 days here. So much work. Fingers crossed this resolves soon for both kitties and your sake.
Ok your kitten is the maine coon right? How is he? What are they giving him for cp? Is it working? Was that a pcr test that found it?My understand that for t. Foetus they can use a fecal loop to get a fresh sample in office. I decided to grab the poop at home and keep it warm on our drive there. I wouldn’t think steroids would effect but supposedly antibiotics can. My experience is that it is not a common test so vets don’t seem to be up to speed on it. My second vet asked how old the sample was and if it was litter free. I told her 40 min and tried to keep it warm and took c. Pefrengs from top of poop so litter free. She said perfect and 40 mins is ok. I did tell her he was on amoxicillin and she wasn’t concerned. She and I both though tf but it ended up being bacteria. I also found labs matter. The PCR is different per lab. The first lab, antec did not look for clostridium perfringens, the second lab was Indexx and they tested for a lot more. This is just my experience. I’m no pro with cats. But as a human nurse I like to dig deep in to scientific studies. Lol. I know I’m weird.
I'm having that problem with Ryder. It gets better for a 3-4 days then back to mushy piles or half solid half diarrhea. My other cat has had solid, low residue for the past few days which has made me feel a bit better. I'm waiting a few more days to hit the 2 week mark after the last medication dose to test again.T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.
How does a cat get clostridium perfringens?He had a horrible infection from clostridium perfringens.
there is no way I can get a sample in in one hour I will not be using that sample but it was a mix of hard and a little mush. His first pcr and second float was done on 2 day refridge poop I think. First float at another dvm was done on fresh normal poop, all neg. I don’t know what was done with the samples once I dropped them off.Hopefully this will be moral support and offer some hope for those battling Giardia. Rain was 4+ for Giardia a few weeks ago, so we did the Panacur alone for that (no Flagyl/metronidazole), and she was also strong for Coccidia for the second time so she also got ponazuril. We rechecked her sample in Thursday... results today were "no parasites seen"... a "conditional negative". She has not had diarrhea like some of the other poor kitties here, but she had mucus-covered stool, and that's now all back to normal. She also had tapeworms, and she got the injection of tapeworm medication when she was in for her spay surgery last week. So, for now anyway, she's parasite free, apparently, and her gut seems to be doing fine. Thankfully, no T. foetus or bacterial overgrowth.
So, paws crossed... Giardia CAN be defeated! It may take time and several rounds of treatment. Cleanliness and good hygiene is CRITICAL. Rain was getting baths for a minor skin condition, and of course, washing her bottom was also helping to remove the critters from her fur so that she wouldn't be re-ingesting them and keeping the problem going. That may be a big step in fighting the parasites. If you are able to bathe your kitties at the start, middle and end of a treatment course, and or clean their bottom and paws daily with a kitty-friendly wipe, that can help in the battle. Fewer things to make their way back into the cat's guts!
And yes, 4 days is quite long to hold a sample. The sample needs to be as fresh as possible, ideally no more than an hour old (in a perfect world)… particularly if it's runny.
I understand, which is why I qualified with the phrase "in a perfect world". Is it possible to do a same-day dropoff, within a couple of hours? The goal is to get it there as soon as possible, and IDEALLY (not always possible, life and all that) in the hour. Another option could be to drop him off at the clinic for the day and see if he's able to donate there. It's the "big gun solution", but it may be the best solution for getting a good fresh sample. Are they only doing floats? A direct smear may be a better in-house solution, or sending to Idexx/Antech/another lab. I used to read smears all the time, and that was how we most often found the little swimmers... T. foetus and Giardia, as well as the bacteria.there is no way I can get a sample in in one hour I will not be using that sample but it was a mix of hard and a little mush. His first pcr and second float was done on 2 day refridge poop I think. First float at another dvm was done on fresh normal poop, all neg. I don’t know what was done with the samples once I dropped them off.
My schedule and M poop schedule does not allow rushing to dvm with poop sample and they will prolly just put it in the fridge for the one sent out for pcr so I am not sure what to do here. How am I ever going to get a reliable test for t foetus? Can’t do a loop poop on him and they will just refridgerate it anyway. I had two of my kitties test pos for giardia on 2 day refridge stored poop years ago. No symptoms. Treated them and that was the end of it. No cleaning etc. I had symptoms, tried flagyl and it made me very ill but one day seemed to help. M was an outdoor cat so I wonder which parasites and bacteria he is most likely to have if it is that.
I just wonder why there is very little moral support for we caretakers dealing with this and even scorn on part of some dvm etc. and no clear cut rules for all of the samples etc. and various parasites.
I was told to refrigerate immediately, but it had to be there within 12 hours. But this was a couple of years ago, so as said..ask your vet.I think within 12 hours for a sample is acceptable for a PCR test. I can't exactly remember but there is some time.Just ask the vet. I again can't remember on the refrigeration etc but again ask the vet.
Does it still have the nose violating smell? Have you given any probiotics? I have used Bene-Bac on all my animals. It's a good product. If the poop is normal colored and doesn't have the Giardia smell, he may be clear of it, but now has tummy issues. I would try a probiotic and see if it doesn't help.I'm having that problem with Ryder. It gets better for a 3-4 days then back to mushy piles or half solid half diarrhea. My other cat has had solid, low residue for the past few days which has made me feel a bit better. I'm waiting a few more days to hit the 2 week mark after the last medication dose to test again.
Ok so today at 12pm I got what seemed a newish Merlin poop. He had pooped at 2:30 am as well which I stored just in case and will toss now. I put the 12 pm poop in a sterile plastic container and took it to dvm after my doc appointment at about 2-3 pm. A vet tech there said they do not refrigerate samples and the pick up for idexx was at 5 pm. They do not do any tests there. Last test was at idexx. She said a pcr was a smear test. Is that the case? Dropping him off is not a good idea for a poop sample because he is a not totally tame previous outdoor cat who is prolly going to need to be sedated for anything like that. And leaving him all day would cause a lot of stress, I don’t think they would do it either unless he is having an us. She seemed to be pushing an us again and I pointed out that the dvm said if us showed no ibd he would just rx a steroid anyway. She was also confused about the difference between ibd and Ibs when I asked if cats get ibs.I understand, which is why I qualified with the phrase "in a perfect world". Is it possible to do a same-day dropoff, within a couple of hours? The goal is to get it there as soon as possible, and IDEALLY (not always possible, life and all that) in the hour. Another option could be to drop him off at the clinic for the day and see if he's able to donate there. It's the "big gun solution", but it may be the best solution for getting a good fresh sample. Are they only doing floats? A direct smear may be a better in-house solution, or sending to Idexx/Antech/another lab. I used to read smears all the time, and that was how we most often found the little swimmers... T. foetus and Giardia, as well as the bacteria.
Some DVM's, like some human doctors, get a "deity" or "royalty" complex. It's just their personality. Our vets now don't have that going on, and we've swapped articles and research info many times.
See if you can get a smear done. The float solution really wreaks havoc on the protozoa and "motile" parasites. You may have better luck that way.
Ryder's poop could clear a room. It smells terrible, is wet, and a light brown. For the past 3-4 days his poop has been formed but soft which is an improvement over the piles he used to have. Due to the inflammation and diarrhea, he also has been having symptoms of an anal prolapse. Haven't seen that in the past 4 days or so though. There seems to a bit of improvement all around but his stool isn't in great shape. Not sure if it's still Giardia or if things are just slow to improve since he's had it for so long. They're due for a re-test this weekend, so I guess I'll find out soon.Does it still have the nose violating smell? Have you given any probiotics? I have used Bene-Bac on all my animals. It's a good product. If the poop is normal colored and doesn't have the Giardia smell, he may be clear of it, but now has tummy issues. I would try a probiotic and see if it doesn't help.
May take a week before you notice much improvement.
Thanks. It was pure luck he pooped then and it fit in the schedule. I still feel his poop is not improving as much as I would have expected with a steroid though, but he as only had about 6 doses so far.Great job o getting a really good and fresh sample. That will do it. And it is normal for the sample to be picked up at 5ish for Idexx to do the test. The PCR diarrhea test is really good so should tell us a lot. I do know the technical aspects of the test but I do know whatever they do it is an excellent test. Helps catch things really well.
Are the cat's intestines "thick" at all? Did the vet mention that at all on your last visit?
Ruling out parasites etc is good but trying to diagnose a cause for diarrhea when those are excluded can be very difficult. It really is trial and error. I always figure when I go through this that as long as the cat is responding to whatever treatment (not losing weight really is most important and firming up stools etc) then life is getting better for the cat. Sometimes we don't really know what is going on but if the symptoms get better then I don't worry too much. Of course there are long term negatives of steroids etc but sadly we have to have trade offs.
Let's see how the PCR test comes back and see where you are.
Well, I am guessing it could be something going on with the other PCR test but I am not an expert. I do know that this PCR test should be a good one and we will learn what might be going on.
I personally like the PCR test (even though more expensive) rather than a float or smear test. It just gives me more confidence. Rightly or wrongly but I think if money is no object then the PCR is the best test though the other test can be very effective. But errors can happen.
It is possible that M could be eating things that are causing issues or they might be carrying something. It is just hard to know. The CPR test is going to give us a lot of information. Then we can move forward confident about some things being eliminated.
I am guessing it was probably stress that he threw up the chicken. Possibly he ate too fast (too excited you were back). It is hard to know exactly what happens. Usually if it is a one off thing then I don't worry but if it continues then something is going on.
How old is M?