Overwhelmed by Giardia

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juju521

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If the vet is performing the parasite exams in-house, it might be good to get some fresh sets of eyes in the issue and send the samples out to a lab.
Is this something I request from my vet or do I have to find an independent lab to do so?
 

mackiemac

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Is this something I request from my vet or do I have to find an independent lab to do so?
You should be able to request this from your vet. It's a pretty standard lab test. Our vet uses Idexx (I think... maybe it's Antech). Both of those labs are widely used, and they both have that as a frequent service. In fact, our vet sends fecal samples out routinely instead of doing them in-house. Even the "annual parasite check" and "puppy-kitten" samples go to the lab. It's part of the wellness visit, and they send home a collection device for you to bring back as soon as you get a "donation". You pay for the test when you check out, and bring it back as soon as you can.

You may have to pay a bit more than doing it in-house, but it shouldn't be outrageous. I believe they do both flotation and direct smear. Direct is best for protozoa, particularly the motile ones because float solution can distort the organisms and it stops them from moving, which is a big cue in determining what you're dealing with. Both tests have their merits, and doing both tests is good practice, anyway. When I was active, I would always do float and direct in-house. Yes, we did charge more, but it was a better way to test, as we missed fewer diagnoses that way. Note that sometimes, you don't always catch the organism in any given session, as certain parasites don't pass in every sample, and also the consistency of the sample can imapct the concentrations... so that's why it can take a few reads before making the diagnosis or determining that an animal is truly "negative". That's why we would note a "negative" sample with no parasites seen as "NPS", instead of negative... because it's totally possible for a pet to have an infection, but just not pass any evidence on that potty trip or sample collection.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi,

I too went through a Giardia situation.

Here is the link that may be helpful.

Giardia Questions

Giardia And Giardiasis In Cats

Giardia & Pets | Giardia | Parasites | CDC (this is very helpful and has many dropdown answers to questions

I am guessing either they are either not getting all of their medication (since it is not real great tasty stuff) and/or they are reinfecting themselves.

I would recommend keeping them isolated in a smaller space and making sure proper cleaning is done. The Giardia is hard to destroy and steam cleaning (heat) and the proper cleaner is important. I would actually keep them separated so they don't infect each other as well. Try to keep soft surfaces away from them if at all possible as it is easier (though not as comfortable) to clean hard surfaces. I steam cleaned food and water bowls multiple times a day. I actually used disposable litter boxes and threw them out after use.

It is really important to steam clean soft surfaces. Clean hard surfaces. Make sure they eat all of their medicines (I tended to make sure she was really, really hungry and mixed it in (I used Panacur) but Stephen mentions another one dose solution.

I am not sure but I have read and/or heard that Lysol is dangerous for cats. Because of that I never use it. I don;t know if what I read or heard is accurate but I would ask the vet.

One thing I have learned is many, many cats have giardia and it gets missed. We never know they have or had it. A PCR test will check it but some tests that most people get may not catch it. My point is, cats will eventually get over it and though they may have issues at a later age they can live great and healthy lives for a long time before irritable bowel issues happen.

If I remember correctly cats will "get over" giardia on their own over time. And once they do get over it I believe that they are then immune to getting it. I deal with ferals all the time and worry a lot about carrying giardia from the ferals into my house. I wash my hands, wash my clothes, change shoes, etc as much as possible. So far only my one girl has had giardia but all my cats come from the streets and who knows it they had it as kittens and just got over it. Or if my habits are helping them not get it or the ferals don't have it or I am not getting the cysts into the house. My point is, cats do overcome giardia and though there may be issues in old age the symptoms (if caused by giardia) should go away (diarrhea).

But of course, we want to do everything to try to eliminate the giardia the best we can.

I need to refresh my memory a touch on the nuances and exactly what I did but I will help you through this as much as possible. I went through this and i know how hard it is. My girl I brought in from the streets at about 3 years old. I have no idea if she just caught it or how long she had it. But I did eliminate it through dedication. She is now a healthy happy and loving cat.

I know how stressful this is and frustrating and expensive. But a really intense effort can make this ordeal end faster.

I'll try to help as much as possible. Hopefully StephenQ can help as well. You may want to send him a message as he is really helpful.

Just don't stress, things will work out. Feel free to ask anything and I will try to re-read all the things I learned etc and try to add what is relevant as I see it.

Always check with your vet before giving any medications or using any solutions etc. I am not a vet so it is best to always get vet approval on anything that can be questionable.

From the CDC website

Giardia is hard to completely eliminate from the environment, but there are things you can do to decrease the risk of your pets’ reinfection and of human infection.

  • Hard surfaces(for example: cement and tile floors, crates, tables, trash cans, etc.)
    • Cleaning
      • Wear gloves.
      • Remove feces and discard in a plastic bag.
      • Clean and scrub surfaces using soap. Rinse surface thoroughly until no obvious visible contamination is present.
    • Disinfection
      • Wear gloves.
      • Disinfect according to manufacturer guidelines using oneof the following:
        • Quaternary ammonium compound products (QATS) 4, which are found in some household cleaning products; the active ingredient may be listed as alkyl dimethyl ammonium chloride.
        • Bleach mixed with water (3/4 cup of bleach to 1 gallon of water) 8
      • Follow product instructions, ensuring the product stays in contact with the surface for the recommended amount of time.
      • Rinse with clean water.
  • Carpet / Upholstered Furniture
    • Cleaning
      • Wear gloves.
      • If feces are on a carpet or upholstered furniture, remove them with absorbent material (for example, double layered paper towels).
      • Place and discard the feces in a plastic bag.
      • Clean the contaminated area with regular detergent or carpet cleaning agent.
      • Allow carpet or upholstered furniture to fully dry.
    • Disinfection
      • Wear gloves.
      • Steam clean the area at 158°F for 5 minutes or 212°F for 1 minute.
      • Quaternary ammonium compound products (QATS) are found in some carpet cleaning products and can also be used after cleaning to disinfect. Read the product labels for specifications, and follow all instructions.
  • Other items (toys, clothing, pet bed, etc.)
    • Household items should be cleaned and disinfected daily while a dog or cat is being treated for Giardia infection.
    • Dishwasher
      • Dishwasher-safe toys and water and food bowls can be disinfected in a dishwasher that has a dry cycle or a final rinse that exceeds oneof the following:
        • 113°F for 20 minutes
        • 122°F for 5 minutes
        • 162°F for 1 minute
        • If a dishwasher is not available, submerge dishwasher-safe items in boiling water for at least 1 minute (at elevations above 6,500 feet, boil for 3 minutes).
    • Washer and Dryer
      • Clothing, some pet items (for example, bedding and cloth toys) and linens (sheets and towels) can be washed in the washing machine and then heat-dried on the highest heat setting for 30 minutes.
      • If a clothes dryer is not available, allow clothes to thoroughly air dry under direct sunlight.
 
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nyholli

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Sometimes, Giardia is mistakenly diagnosed when the actual problem is another flagellate protozoan called Tritrichomonas foetus.
I brought home a baby MC on 10/1 and he was ill with diarrhea 8x a day. My original vet wasn’t up to the task nor liked how much research I was doing. I asked for a PCR and it was negative. Little did I know that t. Foetus MUST be fresh sample (guess he didn’t either) and also with a smear it is difficult to tell the difference under microscope. You may want to consider a PCR and do not refrigerate poop. Either straight to vet and kept warm or fecal loop. Sometimes these infections run together. T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.

so I did anothe PCR with a new vet. WHO did not dismiss me and my research. I brought old vet records and documented a timeline. Also kept poop warm in a friggin coffee insulated mug. In a bag with warm water. I know that’s bizzare but I was tired of throwing money out the window and watching my kitten suffer. He didn’t have giardia or t. Foetus. He had a horrible infection from clostridium perfringens. But he was put on Tylan powder that day which can help firm poop quickly in cats and dogs. Wonder if you can do the panacur with that??? Idk. I wish I could be more help. But I agree with the steamer. It is helpful in killing infection and I believe also giardia. We are bleaching down his pan every 2/3 days here. So much work. Fingers crossed this resolves soon for both kitties and your sake.
 

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I'm not sure if I'm here for advice or moral support, but my two cats have tested positive for Giardia for the past 3 months. One of my cats has been through 1 round of Panacur and 1 round of Panacur/Metronidazole. My other cat has been through 2 rounds of Panacur and one round of Panacur/Metronidazole. It is the same routine everytime. I give them a round of medicine, their poop gets solid with low residue for 3-4 days then it turns to formed mushy or just soft piles of poop. I wipe their butts after they poop (if I'm home). I've been cleaning like a crazy person. I clorox wipe everything and lysol the floors. I threw away old scratching boards, toys, even a cat tree. I wash their blankets in hot water. I tried to give them a bath after their last round of medication. One of my cats went nuts and started hissing, so I ended up soaking him with a wet towel and tried rubbing him with the wet towel instead of soap. My other cat was a bit easier, but I couldn't keep her long still long enough to bathe her whole body. I've also been using grooming wipes to try wiping their paws and fur near their butt. I just got a steamer yesterday to supplement the cleaning.

It's been a week since I gave them their last dose of medicine and they're having loose stools again. I'm resigned to the fact that they'll test positive when i get them re-tested in another week. Is the bath part where I'm going wrong? I don't know what else to do and am really starting to get stressed out by how long this has been going on (not to mention the $$ I'm spending to treat this). Help?
I feel for you, been dealing with runs for over a month now with Merlin with no clue what is even going on. I thought psyllium husk was finally helping him because he had some hard poop but the next poop it went right back to soft mush! I’m starting him on a steroid today because I don’t think anything else is going to work. All tests have been negative so far but I am doing another one drop off today or tomorrow. One normal float and probably a PCR for T foetus. It is so stressful. While I would not want to compare it to caring for Syb when she had heart disease / chf, kidney disease and liver failure I would say I am more stressed out maybe now than then.
 

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I brought home a baby MC on 10/1 and he was ill with diarrhea 8x a day. My original vet wasn’t up to the task nor liked how much research I was doing. I asked for a PCR and it was negative. Little did I know that t. Foetus MUST be fresh sample (guess he didn’t either) and also with a smear it is difficult to tell the difference under microscope. You may want to consider a PCR and do not refrigerate poop. Either straight to vet and kept warm or fecal loop. Sometimes these infections run together. T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.

so I did anothe PCR with a new vet. WHO did not dismiss me and my research. I brought old vet records and documented a timeline. Also kept poop warm in a friggin coffee insulated mug. In a bag with warm water. I know that’s bizzare but I was tired of throwing money out the window and watching my kitten suffer. He didn’t have giardia or t. Foetus. He had a horrible infection from clostridium perfringens. But he was put on Tylan powder that day which can help firm poop quickly in cats and dogs. Wonder if you can do the panacur with that??? Idk. I wish I could be more help. But I agree with the steamer. It is helpful in killing infection and I believe also giardia. We are bleaching down his pan every 2/3 days here. So much work. Fingers crossed this resolves soon for both kitties and your sake.
So when you did your test for TF, was that sent out and it was not refrigerated? I am dealing with this now I took a sample day before yesterday and has been sitting in a glass jar in my studio at room temperature I am just wondering if I’m bringing it to the DVM are they going to refrigerate it before they send it out because I know they’re not going to do the test there. So I would like to know how your test was done. And if the cat is on a steroid will that affect these tests?
 

nyholli

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My understand that for t. Foetus they can use a fecal loop to get a fresh sample in office. I decided to grab the poop at home and keep it warm on our drive there. I wouldn’t think steroids would effect but supposedly antibiotics can. My experience is that it is not a common test so vets don’t seem to be up to speed on it. My second vet asked how old the sample was and if it was litter free. I told her 40 min and tried to keep it warm and took c. Pefrengs from top of poop so litter free. She said perfect and 40 mins is ok. I did tell her he was on amoxicillin and she wasn’t concerned. She and I both though tf but it ended up being bacteria. I also found labs matter. The PCR is different per lab. The first lab, antec did not look for clostridium perfringens, the second lab was Indexx and they tested for a lot more. This is just my experience. I’m no pro with cats. But as a human nurse I like to dig deep in to scientific studies. Lol. I know I’m weird.
 

Meowmee

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My understand that for t. Foetus they can use a fecal loop to get a fresh sample in office. I decided to grab the poop at home and keep it warm on our drive there. I wouldn’t think steroids would effect but supposedly antibiotics can. My experience is that it is not a common test so vets don’t seem to be up to speed on it. My second vet asked how old the sample was and if it was litter free. I told her 40 min and tried to keep it warm and took c. Pefrengs from top of poop so litter free. She said perfect and 40 mins is ok. I did tell her he was on amoxicillin and she wasn’t concerned. She and I both though tf but it ended up being bacteria. I also found labs matter. The PCR is different per lab. The first lab, antec did not look for clostridium perfringens, the second lab was Indexx and they tested for a lot more. This is just my experience. I’m no pro with cats. But as a human nurse I like to dig deep in to scientific studies. Lol. I know I’m weird.
Ok your kitten is the maine coon right? How is he? What are they giving him for cp? Is it working? Was that a pcr test that found it?
If I keep the sample in glass for 4 days is that too long? If they are sending it out and not doing it themselves isn’t going to be delayed anyway?
I am not doing a loop etc for Merlin because he is an outdoor cat who is not completely tame and he may need sedation etc. If I am going to do that I may as well do the us as well except for
the expense and possibly no answers.

I am having issues with the new dvm office already but I cannot find another one right now due to my own health issues. A receptionist there tried to get me to leave when I was waiting for an rx for ronidazole which dvm said would do for me to pick up with the steroid. She said maybe M doesn't really need it because he had two neg poop tests and that was why rx was not ready, huh? She got angry at me when I said it wasn't for her to analyze. Then when I complained another recep said dvm told them to tell me to leave etc. there was a patient with 3 cats and a euthanization etc. which no one mentioned. Well now I will ask dvm if dvm told them to tell me to leave etc. Can’t believe I have to deal with this bs on top of everything else. They also gave me no directions on how to reduce the steroid if he responds etc. even though I asked when I was there. This is after already spending several hundred on him and Q.


When I brought M in I asked about antibiotics other than flagyl which is anti b and anti parasite. Dvm thought they would make him worse and that it could not be a parasite or bacteria due to when it started in relation to when he was trapped and inside etc. Dvm said after two rounds of flagyl us and endoscopy biopsy is next which seemed to be jumping the gun to me.

I don't remember what the pcr tested now, will find the link.

please pm me where you are if in ny maybe I can go to your new dvm if it’s not too far away.

Here is the link I showed them when I did the pcr test. I am not sure though which lab they used or which specific tests were done. I will
Ask for the report / results when I prolly drop off poop tomorrow.

imo you are not weird at all to want to know what is going on with your kitten and expecting a dvm to want to as well.

https://www.zoologix.com/dogcat/Datasheets/FelineDiarrheaPanel.htm
 
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kashmir64

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One important thing I forgot to mention...with all the diarrhea, they can get dehydrated easily. I used a 50/50 unflavored Pedialyte/water mixture for my kittens. This gave them the hydration needed.
 

mackiemac

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Hopefully this will be moral support and offer some hope for those battling Giardia. Rain was 4+ for Giardia a few weeks ago, so we did the Panacur alone for that (no Flagyl/metronidazole), and she was also strong for Coccidia for the second time so she also got ponazuril. We rechecked her sample in Thursday... results today were "no parasites seen"... a "conditional negative". She has not had diarrhea like some of the other poor kitties here, but she had mucus-covered stool, and that's now all back to normal. She also had tapeworms, and she got the injection of tapeworm medication when she was in for her spay surgery last week. So, for now anyway, she's parasite free, apparently, and her gut seems to be doing fine. Thankfully, no T. foetus or bacterial overgrowth.

So, paws crossed... Giardia CAN be defeated! It may take time and several rounds of treatment. Cleanliness and good hygiene is CRITICAL. Rain was getting baths for a minor skin condition, and of course, washing her bottom was also helping to remove the critters from her fur so that she wouldn't be re-ingesting them and keeping the problem going. That may be a big step in fighting the parasites. If you are able to bathe your kitties at the start, middle and end of a treatment course, and or clean their bottom and paws daily with a kitty-friendly wipe, that can help in the battle. Fewer things to make their way back into the cat's guts!

And yes, 4 days is quite long to hold a sample. The sample needs to be as fresh as possible, ideally no more than an hour old (in a perfect world)… particularly if it's runny.
 
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juju521

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T. Foetus will improve with antibiotic slightly and once off you are back to mush piles.
I'm having that problem with Ryder. It gets better for a 3-4 days then back to mushy piles or half solid half diarrhea. My other cat has had solid, low residue for the past few days which has made me feel a bit better. I'm waiting a few more days to hit the 2 week mark after the last medication dose to test again.

He had a horrible infection from clostridium perfringens.
How does a cat get clostridium perfringens?
 

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Hopefully this will be moral support and offer some hope for those battling Giardia. Rain was 4+ for Giardia a few weeks ago, so we did the Panacur alone for that (no Flagyl/metronidazole), and she was also strong for Coccidia for the second time so she also got ponazuril. We rechecked her sample in Thursday... results today were "no parasites seen"... a "conditional negative". She has not had diarrhea like some of the other poor kitties here, but she had mucus-covered stool, and that's now all back to normal. She also had tapeworms, and she got the injection of tapeworm medication when she was in for her spay surgery last week. So, for now anyway, she's parasite free, apparently, and her gut seems to be doing fine. Thankfully, no T. foetus or bacterial overgrowth.

So, paws crossed... Giardia CAN be defeated! It may take time and several rounds of treatment. Cleanliness and good hygiene is CRITICAL. Rain was getting baths for a minor skin condition, and of course, washing her bottom was also helping to remove the critters from her fur so that she wouldn't be re-ingesting them and keeping the problem going. That may be a big step in fighting the parasites. If you are able to bathe your kitties at the start, middle and end of a treatment course, and or clean their bottom and paws daily with a kitty-friendly wipe, that can help in the battle. Fewer things to make their way back into the cat's guts!

And yes, 4 days is quite long to hold a sample. The sample needs to be as fresh as possible, ideally no more than an hour old (in a perfect world)… particularly if it's runny.
there is no way I can get a sample in in one hour😹 I will not be using that sample but it was a mix of hard and a little mush. His first pcr and second float was done on 2 day refridge poop I think. First float at another dvm was done on fresh normal poop, all neg. I don’t know what was done with the samples once I dropped them off.

My schedule and M poop schedule does not allow rushing to dvm with poop sample and they will prolly just put it in the fridge for the one sent out for pcr so I am not sure what to do here. How am I ever going to get a reliable test for t foetus? Can’t do a loop poop on him and they will just refridgerate it anyway. I had two of my kitties test pos for giardia on 2 day refridge stored poop years ago. No symptoms. Treated them and that was the end of it. No cleaning etc. I had symptoms, tried flagyl and it made me very ill but one day seemed to help. M was an outdoor cat so I wonder which parasites and bacteria he is most likely to have if it is that.

I just wonder why there is very little moral support for we caretakers dealing with this and even scorn on part of some dvm etc. and no clear cut rules for all of the samples etc. and various parasites.
 
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mackiemac

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there is no way I can get a sample in in one hour😹 I will not be using that sample but it was a mix of hard and a little mush. His first pcr and second float was done on 2 day refridge poop I think. First float at another dvm was done on fresh normal poop, all neg. I don’t know what was done with the samples once I dropped them off.

My schedule and M poop schedule does not allow rushing to dvm with poop sample and they will prolly just put it in the fridge for the one sent out for pcr so I am not sure what to do here. How am I ever going to get a reliable test for t foetus? Can’t do a loop poop on him and they will just refridgerate it anyway. I had two of my kitties test pos for giardia on 2 day refridge stored poop years ago. No symptoms. Treated them and that was the end of it. No cleaning etc. I had symptoms, tried flagyl and it made me very ill but one day seemed to help. M was an outdoor cat so I wonder which parasites and bacteria he is most likely to have if it is that.

I just wonder why there is very little moral support for we caretakers dealing with this and even scorn on part of some dvm etc. and no clear cut rules for all of the samples etc. and various parasites.
I understand, which is why I qualified with the phrase "in a perfect world". 🙂 Is it possible to do a same-day dropoff, within a couple of hours? The goal is to get it there as soon as possible, and IDEALLY (not always possible, life and all that) in the hour. Another option could be to drop him off at the clinic for the day and see if he's able to donate there. It's the "big gun solution", but it may be the best solution for getting a good fresh sample. Are they only doing floats? A direct smear may be a better in-house solution, or sending to Idexx/Antech/another lab. I used to read smears all the time, and that was how we most often found the little swimmers... T. foetus and Giardia, as well as the bacteria.

Some DVM's, like some human doctors, get a "deity" or "royalty" complex. It's just their personality. Our vets now don't have that going on, and we've swapped articles and research info many times.

See if you can get a smear done. The float solution really wreaks havoc on the protozoa and "motile" parasites. You may have better luck that way.
 

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I think within 12 hours for a sample is acceptable for a PCR test. I can't exactly remember but there is some time.Just ask the vet. I again can't remember on the refrigeration etc but again ask the vet.

It should be pretty easy. I haven't had to do this for a while and can't remember exactly but when I did go through it it was easy.

Here is a link for the PCR tests: RealPCR Tests | IDEXX Reference Laboratories - IDEXX US

Don't stress. If the vet is not helpful etc if possible try to find another vet (I know it is hard in certain places). The PCR tests really do a good job but a reasonably fresh sample is needed. Just do your best, you will get through this. I know it is hard to balance work and this and everything else but just take one task at a time and do your best.
 

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I think within 12 hours for a sample is acceptable for a PCR test. I can't exactly remember but there is some time.Just ask the vet. I again can't remember on the refrigeration etc but again ask the vet.
I was told to refrigerate immediately, but it had to be there within 12 hours. But this was a couple of years ago, so as said..ask your vet.
I'm having that problem with Ryder. It gets better for a 3-4 days then back to mushy piles or half solid half diarrhea. My other cat has had solid, low residue for the past few days which has made me feel a bit better. I'm waiting a few more days to hit the 2 week mark after the last medication dose to test again.
Does it still have the nose violating smell? Have you given any probiotics? I have used Bene-Bac on all my animals. It's a good product. If the poop is normal colored and doesn't have the Giardia smell, he may be clear of it, but now has tummy issues. I would try a probiotic and see if it doesn't help.
May take a week before you notice much improvement.
 

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I understand, which is why I qualified with the phrase "in a perfect world". 🙂 Is it possible to do a same-day dropoff, within a couple of hours? The goal is to get it there as soon as possible, and IDEALLY (not always possible, life and all that) in the hour. Another option could be to drop him off at the clinic for the day and see if he's able to donate there. It's the "big gun solution", but it may be the best solution for getting a good fresh sample. Are they only doing floats? A direct smear may be a better in-house solution, or sending to Idexx/Antech/another lab. I used to read smears all the time, and that was how we most often found the little swimmers... T. foetus and Giardia, as well as the bacteria.

Some DVM's, like some human doctors, get a "deity" or "royalty" complex. It's just their personality. Our vets now don't have that going on, and we've swapped articles and research info many times.

See if you can get a smear done. The float solution really wreaks havoc on the protozoa and "motile" parasites. You may have better luck that way.
Ok so today at 12pm I got what seemed a newish Merlin poop. He had pooped at 2:30 am as well which I stored just in case and will toss now. I put the 12 pm poop in a sterile plastic container and took it to dvm after my doc appointment at about 2-3 pm. A vet tech there said they do not refrigerate samples and the pick up for idexx was at 5 pm. They do not do any tests there. Last test was at idexx. She said a pcr was a smear test. Is that the case? Dropping him off is not a good idea for a poop sample because he is a not totally tame previous outdoor cat who is prolly going to need to be sedated for anything like that. And leaving him all day would cause a lot of stress, I don’t think they would do it either unless he is having an us. She seemed to be pushing an us again and I pointed out that the dvm said if us showed no ibd he would just rx a steroid anyway. She was also confused about the difference between ibd and Ibs when I asked if cats get ibs.
She said that the steroid should not affect the pcr test but she thought the fact he seems to be responding means it is maybe ibd etc. however, I disagree because a dvm I spoke with at petco said runs from other causes could also respond to steroid treatment.

I hope this new test shows a cause of his runs etc. which can be treated with something other than steroids. I think he is responding a bit to the steroid, but his poop was still soft even though formed. I asked about the powder ab treatment for cp which is also used as a stool firmer for runs and she said wait until after the test (Tylan powder).

His previous pcr was all neg. It is possible that it was neg due to it being and older refridge sample or the fact that I had already given him some older flagyl pills I had at home which he was not eating in his food on a regular basis. Although I see someone was told to refridge theirs. I got the report on the first pcr and it says lack of enough dna or previous ant bac or anti p meds could cause a neg test result. It looks like they tested for numerous bacteria and parasites if not all.

So, are a smear and a float two separate stool tests and a pcr stool test is another? I was under the impression from what I read that a smear was looked at under a microscope as well but with no liquid added.

It has also occurred to me that M is in my studio where there are bugs etc. and maybe even mice and I wonder if he has been eating them. And if that could be affecting him too. When I was in the hospital ed for several hours 1.5 weeks ago, when we came back he had vomited the chicken I had given him that day and there was a large half eaten cricket as well. I assume it was from stress of me not being there for a while.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Great job o getting a really good and fresh sample. That will do it. And it is normal for the sample to be picked up at 5ish for Idexx to do the test. The PCR diarrhea test is really good so should tell us a lot. I do know the technical aspects of the test but I do know whatever they do it is an excellent test. Helps catch things really well.

Are the cat's intestines "thick" at all? Did the vet mention that at all on your last visit?

Ruling out parasites etc is good but trying to diagnose a cause for diarrhea when those are excluded can be very difficult. It really is trial and error. I always figure when I go through this that as long as the cat is responding to whatever treatment (not losing weight really is most important and firming up stools etc) then life is getting better for the cat. Sometimes we don't really know what is going on but if the symptoms get better then I don't worry too much. Of course there are long term negatives of steroids etc but sadly we have to have trade offs.

Let's see how the PCR test comes back and see where you are.

Well, I am guessing it could be something going on with the other PCR test but I am not an expert. I do know that this PCR test should be a good one and we will learn what might be going on.

I personally like the PCR test (even though more expensive) rather than a float or smear test. It just gives me more confidence. Rightly or wrongly but I think if money is no object then the PCR is the best test though the other test can be very effective. But errors can happen.

It is possible that M could be eating things that are causing issues or they might be carrying something. It is just hard to know. The CPR test is going to give us a lot of information. Then we can move forward confident about some things being eliminated.

I am guessing it was probably stress that he threw up the chicken. Possibly he ate too fast (too excited you were back). It is hard to know exactly what happens. Usually if it is a one off thing then I don't worry but if it continues then something is going on.

How old is M?
 
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juju521

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Does it still have the nose violating smell? Have you given any probiotics? I have used Bene-Bac on all my animals. It's a good product. If the poop is normal colored and doesn't have the Giardia smell, he may be clear of it, but now has tummy issues. I would try a probiotic and see if it doesn't help.
May take a week before you notice much improvement.
Ryder's poop could clear a room. It smells terrible, is wet, and a light brown. For the past 3-4 days his poop has been formed but soft which is an improvement over the piles he used to have. Due to the inflammation and diarrhea, he also has been having symptoms of an anal prolapse. Haven't seen that in the past 4 days or so though. There seems to a bit of improvement all around but his stool isn't in great shape. Not sure if it's still Giardia or if things are just slow to improve since he's had it for so long. They're due for a re-test this weekend, so I guess I'll find out soon.

For probiotics, I give them a capsule of Proviable a day. I have Bene-Bac on hand but wanted to get a negative Giardia test before giving it to them.
 

Meowmee

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Great job o getting a really good and fresh sample. That will do it. And it is normal for the sample to be picked up at 5ish for Idexx to do the test. The PCR diarrhea test is really good so should tell us a lot. I do know the technical aspects of the test but I do know whatever they do it is an excellent test. Helps catch things really well.

Are the cat's intestines "thick" at all? Did the vet mention that at all on your last visit?

Ruling out parasites etc is good but trying to diagnose a cause for diarrhea when those are excluded can be very difficult. It really is trial and error. I always figure when I go through this that as long as the cat is responding to whatever treatment (not losing weight really is most important and firming up stools etc) then life is getting better for the cat. Sometimes we don't really know what is going on but if the symptoms get better then I don't worry too much. Of course there are long term negatives of steroids etc but sadly we have to have trade offs.

Let's see how the PCR test comes back and see where you are.

Well, I am guessing it could be something going on with the other PCR test but I am not an expert. I do know that this PCR test should be a good one and we will learn what might be going on.

I personally like the PCR test (even though more expensive) rather than a float or smear test. It just gives me more confidence. Rightly or wrongly but I think if money is no object then the PCR is the best test though the other test can be very effective. But errors can happen.

It is possible that M could be eating things that are causing issues or they might be carrying something. It is just hard to know. The CPR test is going to give us a lot of information. Then we can move forward confident about some things being eliminated.

I am guessing it was probably stress that he threw up the chicken. Possibly he ate too fast (too excited you were back). It is hard to know exactly what happens. Usually if it is a one off thing then I don't worry but if it continues then something is going on.

How old is M?
Thanks. It was pure luck he pooped then and it fit in the schedule. I still feel his poop is not improving as much as I would have expected with a steroid though, but he as only had about 6 doses so far.

Merlin is prolly about 2.5 years old. He showed up with his brother Marlon who vanished. They looked about 6 months old then. Both dumped. He was tnr in Aug 2018. He bit me outside this August. I retrapped him, quarantined, revetted. He was sedated and dvm basically said she would do no exam before sedation, not even to make sure he did not have rabies. Blood work was normal except high blood glucose, she said he had what she thought was an allergic fungal infection on his paw, and on his tail. Those cleared up while he was recuperating. He was listed as obese at this exam at 15 lbs and he has not lost weight as far as I can tell even with the diarrhea. He started gaining weight I noticed already while he was outside in early spring I think. He had a normal poop stool test on normal poop then too. She did not say anything about his abdomen being firm or anything about whether she had examined him further etc.

The runs started about a month or more after he was already inside. When he was sedated for the revetting she told me he she had to give him a bigger dose than expected and she said he could be released the next day, but when I picked him up he was pretty out of it, still wobbly and I knew there was no way he could be released that soon. She had also clipped his claws which I asked them not to do, so that delayed any potential release as well. Fast forward , after asking for help here to have someone help him get adopted, and not really getting any concrete help, he is still inside and now with awful runs etc. And possibly a chronic condition at a very young age to have such a thing. His poop was pretty much normal until about a month ago. There was one incident when he was still in the cage pretty soon after the sedation and vaccinations etc. that he had some semi loose poop which went away, and 2-3 times on other occasions, when I was transitioning food or just giving a tiny bit of quinn’s home cooked food and I stopped then all went back to normal. I assumed the first time was maybe due to sedation and stress.

The second exam was not really an exam. He stayed in the cage and dvm was only able to look at his paws and pet his face a bit, he did not look at his teeth or touch his tummy etc. otherwise he was ok, not hissing etc. they told me they would give him gas to sedate to look at him if needed but they ended up not really examining him. No weight etc. I can tell he has not lost any weight though by looking at him. He looks like he may have gained a bit. Dvm said he was not dehydrated at all and he does not appear to be ill really. He eats, drinks a lot of water etc., plays and so on, His poop has a foul smell and lots of gas so I wonder if it is a parasite after all or bacteria.

He had already vomited the chicken before I came home from the hospital with the cricket in there, so maybe stress of me not being there and the cricket caused it. I was pretty much gone all day and had fed him in the early afternoon before two appointments and then another appointment and test which required going to ed..so it was quite a while before he vomited it as far as I know. But my memory from that day is not perfect.
 
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