Older And Younger Cat

[sappig]

Me and my boyfriend have been living together for 1.5 year now, so are our cats. It's not going well, even after a slow introduction. Meaning a year of seperate rooms, feeding together and eventually, scent exchange even a hole in the door with a plexiglass plate with drilled holes so they can safely smell each other. After a year we decided to put them together as they kept fighting against the glass.

His two indoor cats, mother (9) and daughter (8), never socialised with other cats/people/doctors. When we brought them to the pension during our holiday, they didn't let the both of them out of their cage with the other cats for the entire week. Daughter is generally super chill, so I didn't expect that. Recently we found a new home, single cat household, for mother as she has been hostile towards daughter since young (daughter doesnt mind). My cat (2) is also minimally socialized with other cats as he grew up alone since he was 2.5 months. He was fine at the pension though, but I didn't get to see his behaviour.

My situation feels like this New kitten too playful for older cat, except it's not a kitten anymore and it has been going on for 1.5 years. My cat just can't seem to understand they don't want him near. Now, I feel my cat has become more agressive in his playing after all the hissing and clawing. I really don't know what to do. They are fine when eating together though.

 

[sappig]

Also, what kind of behaviour should I reward or punish? Or should I not mingle at all? I do give treats together, that goes very well! But daughter always hisses from a great distance, but the young cat also randomly dashes towards her. I can tell when he is going for a dash, but not sure if daughter can tell the difference between him sitting or hunting. Her pawing is always with nails, while younger cat often starts with a clawless swoosh. Younger cat also chases her out of the toilet sometimes and immediately burries her poop/urine.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

For the most part, the less you have to intervene once the initial introduction is done, the better things are. As a very good cat behaviorist once said, "Sometimes, a cat's gotta say what a cat's gotta say." From what you are describing, there aren't any real cat fights going on. In a real cat-fight, there is fur flying and blood on the floor. Unless this actually escalates, I think that they will be all right, and may even get better as your older cat trains the younger one, and/or the younger one settles more with age. Even at two, he's a young, rambunctious cat.

As for the litter box, the answer is....MORE BOXES! The rule of thumb is, 1 box per cat, plus one more, and they should be situated at some distance from each other. That makes it harder for anyone to guard boxes.

 

[sappig]

Well, there is blood and definitely fur. The older cat really uses her claws, but the younger seems to not care about scratches and blood. Lately he has been more persistent in his attacks, so that's what makes me wonder if not interfering is working out. They have been in the same area for about half a year now and I stopped interfering since 3 months. The litter boxes are spread, but the younger cat is so smart. He sits in the middle of the living room, next to the door to the hallway. He can see both litterboxes in the living room and the door to the hallway that leads to the other rooms and box. The older cat also prefers the living room.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Oh, boy. Yep, there's a bit of a fight, and a kitten who just doesn't care. Now I'm a bit stumped, especially since you have taken the proper steps with a long introduction. I'm going to see if I can find someone who might have some ideas that haven't occurred to me.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Just because, I'm going to give you the links we have on introducing cats, and on aggression, just on the off chance that one or more of them will have an idea that you haven't tried yet!
Introducing Cats To Cats
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
How To Safely Break Up A Cat Fight
How To Stop Playtime Aggression In Cats

 

[catpack]

If I am reading this properly, the cats were fighting through the door/plexiglass prior to being out together?

 

[sappig]

Thanks for the links Mamanyt! Wouldn't call the younger one a kitten anymore though The blood shed is an occasional thing though, most of the time it's just fur, scratches and maybe a little bit of blood on the noses.

Catpack, yes! It got worse and worse. The younger reallllly wanted to go the other side and often was like.. digging through/pawing at the glass. Mother cat started to realize the glass was protecting her and eventually started to growl and hiss whenever she saw him, which started fighting on both sides. The lady of the cat pension recommended removing the barrier, as it made mother cat over confident and younger cat more aggressive. She said they had to determine who was the Alpha. Her and the younger one would really fight though, claws out. But mother cat has been placed into a new home, as she never has been happy with other cats around. I feel this has been a really bad decision now, but keeping them seperated was also really hard. One or the other would sometimes slip through the door, which caused lots of panick.

The younger one and daughter are alright most of the time, especially when there is food involved. But the times they do fight have increased (several times a day) and gotten more aggresive. The daughter cat is ears flat, growling and all, younger cat is very twitchy and sometimes takes a hunting stance.

 

[catpack]

Ok. I would have not advised you to allow them to interact directly with them already showing aggression to one another. Letting cats "fight it out" very often leads to the behaviors you are currently seeing.

Are both cats spayed and neutered?

At this point I would suggest separating them completely and giving them both time to cool off and gain confidence and peace. Once both cats are showing no signs of aggression separated, you can bring the *slow* introduction steps you have been suggested above. Do not move onto the next step until both cats are calm, cool and showing no signs of aggression at the current step.

At the end of the day, you may end up with two cats that need to live separately in the house. This doesn't mean that one of both has to reside in a single area, but you may have to sight swap without giving them the chance to interact.

 

[Kieka]

I think I would start with a vet check for the older cats and specifically check thyroid levels and signs of arthritis. Either could explain the extent of the older cats reaction and wouldn't hurt to rule them out.

Assuming there is no medical issues, I would agree with complete separation and redoing introductions. I would also do site swapping and scent exchanges prior to face-to-face reintroduction. What those two are is taking a cat bed into each cats area and leaving it there for a few days (blanket or cat tree work too) you want something they will actually take a nap on though to let their scent really soak in. Then switch the items to the other cats area. Switch the items back and forth a few times so they can smell each other. The site swapping is switching who is in which area on a regular basis (so maybe instead of moving the scented item switch which cat is living in that part?). It can be just a few hours of being in the other area or a few days depending on how the cats take it. The biggest thing you are trying to accomplish is making the cats feel comfortable around each others scents and that their territory isn't in danger because the other is there.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Thank goodness some of those whose opinions I so value have arrived! I've always had only cats, and have picked up what I know about introductions second hand!

 

[sappig]

Sorry for the late reply guys! Both cats are spayed and neutered. Very interested in the switching bed methods. How do you make them sleep in there? They both have very different preferences. Should I remove as many of their other options as possible?

We started out with closed areas and scent exchange (petting cheek/neck area with glove). We did that for half a year, but the younger cat always would always scratch the door where the other cats were or pretty much sit or sleep in front of it most part of the day. I didn't punish it before and only tried to move him away, as I didn't want to associate the scent with negativity. But should I? Cause the scratching stresses out the others. Also, very occaisionally he managed to get into the room and get super hyped while the other cats would panick super bad as they don't expect him.

After a while we seperated them with the hallway in between, so there was no contact at all. Since my boyfriend started working he doesn't want the cats in the bedroom at night anymore, meaning the cats will only have one door between them again. Also, the younger loves to be around people, will he take grudges against the daughter cat (instead of me) if I put him in the hallway? The daughter cat doesnt really care, but I don't want to treat her unfairly as the hallway is crap. (roughly our floor plan, not scaled)

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Very interested in the switching bed methods.

It really is more a matter of switching rooms where they sleep. The goal is to get the entire living area saturated with the scent of both cats, so that no matter where they each go, the smells tell them that is a part of their territory.