Odd symptoms in cat

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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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You're eating those smart pills, Misha_Bun_and_Pika Misha_Bun_and_Pika -- when you get educated on the deep and wide subject of the biomedical empire, you reconsider a lot of things they brainwash us to accept. I've always had a hard time deciding where my beloved cats are concerned, because what I decide for my own health is one thing, and what I decide for someone in my care is sometimes another. Some of the cat illnesses are so virulent. But I did lose one beloved kitten to wet-form FIP after she had checked out completely healthy -- and I opted to get the vax for her because I had lost my beloved Sun to dry-form FIP. She developed the symptoms very rapidly and passed away during the night. She was due to have an appt. the next day. I feel she contracted it from the vax. I never got that again. And I never will. I do get the rabies because it is forced on us, and the FVRCP because it has always been "the one to get" for wide-spectrum protection. Now, I guess, THAT has to be mistrusted as well.
My first degree is in immunology and I work in medical research. I was never fanatically pro vaccine, but I wasn't anti either. I contacted the vet and am waiting for a call back. I have my suspicions and I will take bun to a neurology specialist to determine what is happening. And if it indeed a vaccine reaction I will write up a case report to publish in a vet journal. There aren't many research papers on the subject because it is veterinary medicine and adverse reactions are rarely followed up on to determine exactly what happened.
I acknowledge that I'm not *sure* what's wrong with Bun, but acute vaccine injury resulting in demyelination is my hypothesis. I just need to prove it
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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Bun update:
I went back to vet who admitted he is looking like a cat with diabetic neuropathy. Bun was actually walking 5X better when he was there, I suppose that was the adrenaline. She looked over his bloodwork once more and nothing looks off. Blood glucose was somewhat elevated but that is common in cats. Bun got several X-rays and an ultrasound of his heart, again nothing looks unusual. So overall she conceded that it does not look like (but can't be 100% excluded of course) diabetes, kidney problems, arthritis, cancer/growth, stroke or infection and presumptively there is a neurological cause. I got a referral to a specialist and my hypothesis of kitty Guillain Barre syndrome as a result of vaccine becomes more probable. I will update if/when I find out more. From my reading on cat GBS the symptoms begin to improve after 14-21 days.
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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Oh, the X-ray did show that Bun has a lot of poop in him and is constipated. This could be just incidental but GBS often results in constipation due to damaged colon innervation
 

fionasmom

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It was a very good idea to make the video because Bun probably won't have much space to walk at the vet's. I agree that there is definite discomfort and compensation.
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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It looks to me as if he has discomfort/pain in that limb. Of course I don't know the cause, but I am wondering about some of the natural analgesics that cats can tolerate.
It's hard for me to describe and unfortunately I didn't have a before walking video. But I don't think it's one limb, I think it's all his limbs, and he didn't walk on his whole feet like that before. And the head bobbing is weird too.
Well anyways, he came out of his bed today for the first time in about 3 weeks just to "hang out" so that's a good sign
 

fionasmom

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I agree that I saw what appeared to be a general stiffness that did not seem confined to just one leg.
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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I took Bun to a veterinary neurologist who told me Bun has lost deep tendon reflexes. Vet suggested to get further testing to rule out diabetes, but I'm sure that's not it because Bun doesn't pee a lot and also my regular vet agreed that there is no indication he is diabetic. Another possibility is B12 deficiency; I've been giving Bun B12 for over a week now because if he has neurological issues it can't hurt. Also possibly poisoning/toxin (seems unlikely) or could indeed be kitty GBS aka acute idiopathic polyradiculoneuritis but neurologist thinks its unlikely because it's extremely rare. In my opinion maybe it's not so rare at all, just not frequently reported!!

A full neuro workup would require anesthesia and since Bun seems to be improving (and since it would cost $3500) I will hold off on that. Bun came to greet me when I came home from work today for the first time since this saga began, so that made me very happy!! Strangely his "zombie walk" as I call it has changed, it's like stiff limbed and bouncy, almost like a horses canter?

The timeline also fits GBS, because improvement usually starts between 2-3 weeks after symptom onset. It typically resolves completely after 6 weeks, so that's what I'm hoping for!

But there is no conclusive diagnosis.
 

tarasgirl06

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I took Bun to a veterinary neurologist who told me Bun has lost deep tendon reflexes. Vet suggested to get further testing to rule out diabetes, but I'm sure that's not it because Bun doesn't pee a lot and also my regular vet agreed that there is no indication he is diabetic. Another possibility is B12 deficiency; I've been giving Bun B12 for over a week now because if he has neurological issues it can't hurt. Also possibly poisoning/toxin (seems unlikely) or could indeed be kitty GBS aka acute idiopathic polyradiculoneuritis but neurologist thinks its unlikely because it's extremely rare. In my opinion maybe it's not so rare at all, just not frequently reported!!

A full neuro workup would require anesthesia and since Bun seems to be improving (and since it would cost $3500) I will hold off on that. Bun came to greet me when I came home from work today for the first time since this saga began, so that made me very happy!! Strangely his "zombie walk" as I call it has changed, it's like stiff limbed and bouncy, almost like a horses canter?

The timeline also fits GBS, because improvement usually starts between 2-3 weeks after symptom onset. It typically resolves completely after 6 weeks, so that's what I'm hoping for!

But there is no conclusive diagnosis.
Like so much these days, it's maddening not knowing. But am glad to see he is improving, and hope and pray he continues to do so! B12 certainly can't hurt.
 

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Hello Misha_Bun_and_Pika Misha_Bun_and_Pika ,

I have 2 cats that had the exact same reactions you're describing after getting the FVRCP on the same day: Nov 4, 2021. I have a vet monitoring them and the only thing to have a positive impact so far has been therapeutic doses of probiotics: Benebac and a Dr. Mercola Probiotic for cats mixed with Rebound and AD diet.

I'm just wondering if you have an update as it's been a few months since you last posted. I'm praying things are okay for you and Bun.

Since both of my cats got the exact same reaction together, and since yours had the same reaction too, could it be a bad batch of FVRCP floating around? Just curious as to your thoughts.
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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Hello Misha_Bun_and_Pika Misha_Bun_and_Pika ,

I have 2 cats that had the exact same reactions you're describing after getting the FVRCP on the same day: Nov 4, 2021. I have a vet monitoring them and the only thing to have a positive impact so far has been therapeutic doses of probiotics: Benebac and a Dr. Mercola Probiotic for cats mixed with Rebound and AD diet.

I'm just wondering if you have an update as it's been a few months since you last posted. I'm praying things are okay for you and Bun.

Since both of my cats got the exact same reaction together, and since yours had the same reaction too, could it be a bad batch of FVRCP floating around? Just curious as to your thoughts.
Bun recovered completely after about 10 weeks, I'm so happy. 100% Bun, living his best life, annoying as ever. At one point I was thinking I will have to euthanize him (when he was still on the getting worse part of the curve)
Are your kitties improving? Are they related btw? Can you describe what you've observed, and the timeline? Predicted onset of symptoms would be several days to about 3 weeks after receiving the vaccine. Then kitties would be expected to get worse for 2-3 weeks, and then start getting better. You know I actually obtained the lot number of the vaccine from the vet, but I've discarded it since, although I could probably ask again. It might be worthwhile to check and compare

My hypothesis is still the same, although it will never be proven. I noted another symptom later, he was sleeping with his eyes open which I'd never seen before, this is also consistent with my speculative diagnosis.

I really do believe this is more common than presumed, but typically not recognized or reported. I think that when polyneuropathy occurs in cats it is not diagnosed, and has 2 possible outcomes;
1. the cat being put down when the presentation is severe, such as partial or complete paralysis. It will likely be attributed to a thrombotic event or something like that, but kitty will not have an autopsy to confirm findings
2. mild cases where the cat recovers completely as the disease is self limiting, with a vet likely assuming that whatever treatment was used last "cured" the animal.
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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My Bun observations for reference

18/07/21I notice Bun has nail infectionPresently:
19/07/21Vet visit Animal Medical Centre. Baytril prescribed. 1 dose administered, Bun refuses any further dosesEating and drinking normal, good apetite. Purrs when petted
21/07/21Vet visit Meadowbrook Animal Clinic, receives Convenia injection. Buprenorphine perscribed, 1 dose administered in evening, and the next dayLitter box use appears normal
22/07/21Bun is dazed, discontinue buprenorphineExtremely reluctant to walk. Only for food and litter box
End of JulyInfection resolvesAwkward gait. Difficulty getting up from a lying position.
17/08/21Vet visit Glenora. Normal checkup. FVRCP-C and Rabies vaccine administeredFatigues easily when walking, will sit or lie down in random spots
28/8/21Bun appears lethargic, doesn't eat wellImpaired proprioception (?) leg may be positioned awkwardly when Bun sits and he will not reposition it
29/8/21Bun extremely lethargic, doesn't eat at all. Lip smacking/swallowing noted. Looks at food bowls, doesn't eat. Cervical ventriflexion noted
30/8/21Vet visit Glenora. SubQ H20, blood test: mostly normal. Bun eats 2.5 "Churu" tubes in afternoon.
31/8/21Sleeps all day. Eats a few Churu and treats (~100 calories)
1/9/21Mitrazapine administered, eating improves. I notice limping in hind leg(s), I thought it was from inactivity. Administer buprenorphine evening.
2/9/21Litter box in use. Bun is extremely reluctant to walk, will only walk for food and litter box
3/9/21Notice Bun is walking plantigrade (filmed), not limping per se. Still stays in bed all day
5/9/21Bun begins eating normally at this point. Seems "happier", but absolutely does not want to walk. Start giving Bun 1mg B12 daily (ongoing)
7/9/21Walking seems even worse. Very awkward gait, head bobbing up and down somewhat
8/9/21Vet visit Glenora. Xray and heart ultrasound by non-specialist. Bun appears to be able to walk better at vet ??! All appears normal, except Bun is constipated. 1.5mL Restorlax administered in evening and for the next 2 days
9/10/21But sleeps with eyes open. I’ve never seen him do that before
10/9/21Bun make a small poop. Meows while pooping, which I haven't seen him do before

He started improving after this and I did not observe any new symptoms so I stopped charting
 

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Thank you for taking the time to reply! I have all your questions answered and my own timeline here, let me know what you think!



Nov 4
- Veterinary Clinic - 12pm - Batman (age approx 8, domestic shorthaired) and Bane (age approx 10, domestic shorthaired) - not related - had annual check-up and vaccinations: Feline Rhinotracheitis-Calici-Panleukopenia-Chlamydia Psittaci & Feline Leukemia Virus & Rabies
- had senior cat blood work done. Results: Both are healthy but small amounts of crystals found in Bane's urine - vet gave new food for it
- bad teeth on both - surgery recommended

Home @ dinner time - Bane no longer interested in his favourite cat food that he usually eats in 2 bites he loves it so much.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov. 4-16

- Batman sneezing but pretty normal otherwise, good appetite, doesn’t eat ferociously like he usually does but fine otherwise. A little less active but nothing is concerning me yet.

- Bane has reduced interest in food in general and not eating a lot of his favourite foods anymore. Some changes in his usual habits: not wanting to sleep in his favourite pet bed which he has to jump up to access, wants to sleep on my bed instead - lower to the ground. Slightly less active but fairly normal.

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Nov 16

2:30pm
- Bane feels warm and is lethargic. I call the vet who thinks Bane isn’t eating because he has a tooth infection and recommends I bring him in so I did.

Veterinary Clinic -
4pm - He has a mild fever and he receives an antibiotic injection (0.65 Convenia - vet thinks it’s a tooth infection causing this loss of appetite and fever) and gives me Buprenorphine TD x1ml (0.06mg/) cream to take home for pain and some AD Diet to entice his eating. I’m told if he’s not better by Thursday I need to come back.

Home - he seemed better and ate most of his AD Diet (seemed hungry and excited to eat) and even seemed better personality wise (less lethargic, less down, more happy like his old self) and slept in his favourite bed for the first time in a long time so I thought he was coming back to normal. I did not administer Buprenorphine that night.

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Nov 17

@ 5am
- he wakes me up to go outside (as is normal for him) but I notice he is walking funny, seems weak and is struggling to get up the stairs to go outside. He is walking “gingerly” I would say, like he is unsure of his steps.

He eats very little food (now rejects AD diet) and eats just the juices of the wet food (leaves the meat pieces). So I rub the Buprenorphine in his right ear (vet said helping with the pain in his teeth will bring appetite back).

He sleeps on my bed all morning/early afternoon.

He’s basically out of it for the rest of the day.

2pm - When he goes outside he’s confused and acting weird like he’s high. First thing he does is start eating a lot of grass (perhaps because he’s nauseous?)

Then he’s wandering around confused and I see him in the neighbour’s yard and go to greet him. He staggers over to me and then changes his mind and goes to stand in front of the neighbour’s air conditioning unit. I have to call him a few times to get him to snap out of it (just standing in front of the a/c unit, staring at it) and he comes over and comes inside.

He then sleeps the rest of the day on my bed again.

4pm - email vet that "Bane is very lethargic after his Convenia injection yesterday.” I call vet to make appointment for the next day.

He eats very little and drinks nothing.

He has difficulties walking and jumping when he wants to get up to the window perch above my bed. He enjoys the window being open and getting fresh air.

The walking thing scares me and I read anecdotes online from people who’s cats had adverse reactions to Convenia and they are describing every one of Bane’s symptoms: lethargic, not eating/drinking, difficulties walking, seeming “out of it”, moaning when picked up etc. so I print out a testimonial from a vet online that recommends against Convenia usage because it’s overprescribed incorrectly (should only be for skin infections) and has numerous and sometimes deadly adverse effects.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 18

Home
- Bane’s warm, lethargic and not eating or drinking so I’m concerned about his fluids.

Veterinary Clinic - 12pm - receptionist takes Bane inside and tells me vet will call me on my cell (covid protocols don’t allow me to go in). I give them the printout about Convenia which says one cat developed anemia from it and was successfully treated by being given blood transfusions. The receptionist says that probably won’t be necessary as the odds of that are extremely rare.

12:30 - Vet calls to say Bane has a high fever 39.9C(103.82F) and recommends a Metacam injection to reduce it. I worry that another injection may cause more problems.

I ask why the Convenia is not reducing his fever and Dr says it’s likely that the fever is not due to the tooth and maybe a vaccine reaction is causing all his problems but most likely not.

I say I don’t want to rule out vaccine adverse reactions because then we might not be treating the issue appropriately. I also tell her not to rule out a Convenia adverse reaction as well. She says it’s safe and she’s never had a problem with it and that the symptoms he’s experiencing aren’t in line with what an adverse reaction from Convenia would be (although from what I personally read online, the symptoms are exactly what people have described as symptoms). She suggests I seek another opinion if I’m unsure of her diagnosis.

I tell her to go ahead with the Metacam injection (as I’m worried about the high fever) and ask for fluids to be administered and take Bane home.

6pm - talk to another vet about everything and make an appointment for a housecall to give Bane fluids at 10am the next day.

Notice Batman is a little less active and doesn’t eat that much but am not worried at this point as he’s mostly normal.

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Nov 19

Morning - Bane’s eating and mostly normal, just walking funny still (gingerly, like he’s unsure of his steps - jumping is hard still for him)

10am - New vet visit - Bane still has a slight fever. Is given fluids and Dr. says he detects a heart murmur (which was not detected by my regular vet during his annual exam 2 weeks ago - so they either missed it, or it just developed as a reaction to something he’s been given). He recommends Rebound and AD Diet mixed with water to help with feeding.

I notice Batman doesn’t eat his breakfast (not normal at all) and he’s extremely lethargic and warm to the touch. Dr. examines him too - he has a 39.8C(103.7F) fever. He administers fluids and recommends oral Metacam to reduce fever. New vet now suspects both cats have upper respiratory infections which one gave to the other.

Give Batman .5ml of Metacam and the fever goes down and he’s eating and pretty normal (just slightly lethargic)
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 20 - 5pm - Bane eats all his Rebound and AD diet mix (small amount)

Evening - Bane is lethargic and weak, seems uncomfortable and is constantly shifting to get more comfortable but gives up because he’s too weak. Refused any dinner.

Batman fever returns in the evening so I give him .3mls Metacam and then he’s eating again and better.
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Nov 21

early am - Bane is still lethargic and weak, eats the liquid out of his cat food (mixed with spring water)

9am - goes to sit outside in the sun, is notably more cheerful and even playful (playing with the window screen), comes inside on his own, jumps down easily, walks around easier and then proceeds to eat dry food for the first time in a week. I credit the Rebound which has probiotics and lots of nutrients (which is was definitely depleted in from not eating as much).

3pm - Batman ate his soft food no issues, good portion.

Bane wouldn’t eat any Rebound mixed with AD & water or just Rebound on it's own so I tried to syringe feed. Got a little in, not too much. Will try again later. He’s now napping on his window perch and Batman on the bed. No temperatures on both of them. Bane jumped on the bed and I helped him up to his perch. His back legs have me worried.

5:30pm - Batman fever returns 39.6 (103.28) so gave him .2 metacam - he ate some food at 6pm. Bane 37.9C (100.22F) = normal

7pm - Bane drank some of the AD/Rebound mix on his own, had to syringe feed the rest. Gave him 7ml before he started hissing at me so I stopped. Mixed 1/2 scoop probiotic (Dr. Mercola probiotic for cats) and 1/2 tsp prebiotic (Benevac for pets). He’s also grooming himself afterwards. I tried to put him in the litter box and he got out. He has not peed or pood today.

Batman didn’t eat his dinner but I think he will once his temp goes down and the Metacam kicks in.

2am - Batman ate some food

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Nov 22

8am - syringe feed Bane wrapped in towel - 15mls (with added pre/probiotics, now full scoop Dr Mercola, and 2 tsps Benevac), he then eats some hard food, some tuna & juices, uses the litter box to pee, naps in window perch. Batman eats tuna, naps

9am - Bane is too cold by window perch so he tries to jumps down, hesitates, does very carefully, heads over to food area, I bring over fresh tuna mixed with juices and water and he drinks it (I guess he’s thirsty), is walking like it hurts to walk - very stiff and laboured.

9:30am - Batman temp: 36.6C (97.88F) = no fever, comes to me for cuddles, eats more tuna, takes a bath and a nap

12pm - set up humidifier for Batman because he seems to still be stuffed up in his nose

1:30pm - Bane awake, temp: 37.5C (99.5F) = normal, jumped up to dresser but his back legs didn’t make it and he had to pull himself up, I lifted him onto the perch. He sat on perch with window open.

Batman up too, sitting in window.

2pm - Batman eats breakfast food and some tuna. Bane back in on perch. Gave him tuna and juice and he ate a nice amount. Batman finished the rest.

4pm - Bane bathing himself

5pm - Bane get 17mls syringe feeding and drank lots of tuna juice. Batman only ate a little bit tonight.

8pm - Batman ate a tiny bit, not much. Batman is not touching his water which is not normal for him. Seemed to have difficulties jumping up to the window. Bane is in his bed and is quietly moaning in pain which he does while napping lately.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 23

8am - 22mls syringe mix into Bane

12pm - Vet visit - 38.3C (101F) temp on Bane (normal), he took blood from his back leg and neck to do a new blood work (results: slightly low Albumin - 25 g/L when 26-39 g/L is the norm), he administered subcutaneous fluids and a lube only enema.

After the visit Bane went and had a little hard food and hid under the bed for a bit. Then after a bit he came out and was hungry, I gave him his normal food and it looked like he was starving and gobbling it down although only had 1/3 maybe. He had a pee in the litter box

Afternoon - Bane hid under the bed.

Evening - Bane asked for food and was starving, ate his food and whatever Batman had left over.

9pm - Bane slept next to me all night
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 24

5am - Bane asked to go outside, presumably for a poo I’m hoping. Came back within 10 minutes as it’s very cold. Came and slept in between my legs. His mobility was good as I didn’t have to help him to the window and he seemed to be walking well.

9am - 22ml syringe feed into Bane after he only licked a bit of his breakfast

Daytime - Bane and Batman slept a lot. Bane is lethargic again, having difficulties moving. I lifted him into his perch as he looked like he wanted to see outside and he was almost limp. Batman seems lethargic too and doesn’t really go outside. Batman is not drinking his water at all.

4pm - Bane - 22ml syringe feed. He peed a lot in the litter box, and then ate hard food.

6/6:30pm - Batman ate Bane’s leftover liquid diet then ate some bites of regular food and then I gave him AD/Rebound/Benevac Mix with water. He tried to jump up to the bed and couldn’t make it, he fell so I lifted him. He also had to concentrate really hard to jump up to the dresser. He stared at the window really long like he was scared to jump so I lifted him. He’s in the window staring out with it open.

7pm - Bane eats dry food. He came to sit next to me on the couch - jumped up on his own.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 25

5am - opened window for Bane and he sat in it. His leg slipped off the dresser as he was walking there (still uncoordinated).

7:30am - Bane drank a little water, had some leftover food and dry food so I put out his mix in a bowl and he had some. Jumping up to the couch was not an issue but jumping down was.

8am - Bane has water again. Jumped on couch quite well. Napping.

9am - Bane drank water again

10:45am - Bane awake, jumped on bed, jumped to window on his own. Is in his bed on the dresser now.

11am - Batman came out from under the bed, no interest in all the food and water I left out so I syringe fed him 24ml. He bathed himself

6:30pm - home from work - it looks like Batman had not moved from his spot on the bed all day. He wants to get up, tries and just can’t. I brought him tuna and juice to eat and he didn’t move, just ate it in the same position lying down.

Bane peed in the litter box and ate all the tuna and juice I left out. Bane can jump up to the window and go out quite easy.

7:30pm - I syringe fed both about 20mls of mix and added greek yogurt with probiotics to it today (recommended online). Bane ate hard food after and Batman actually ate his regular food after being syringe fed but he laid on the ground and didn’t get up to eat - I had to put the plate under his nose.

Evening/night - Batman slept next to me in bed all night.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 26


4am - Batman crawls on top of me but keeps readjusting himself so I think he’s not there to cuddle but to try to move around. I get up and he hops off the bed and asks to go outside the side door using the stairs. His coordination is terrible. He comes back in through the window very shortly. He jumps down and uses the litter - I find pee and poo in the morning although very little poo and it’s small and dry. He goes to drink a bit of tuna juice. Goes to sleep under bed.

Bane sleeps at the foot of my bed and I pet him and he purrs for the first time in over a week.

8am - Bane is up, has dry food and I give him regular food which he eats a good portion of, he is bathing, naps on couch.

9am - 20 mls mix to Bane. He’s napping in his bed.

10am - Batman out from under the bed, walking funny, I give him 20mls of mix. He asks for food, give him regular and he eats a lot of it. Put him up on the window perch and he’s relaxing.

11am - Batman jumps down (great difficulty sitting up first and then jumping down) to go lay in bed, is walking very weird. Mostly back legs I’d say and stiff.

12pm - Vet visit - Fluids and B12 injections for both, blood work Batman (results 100% normal), Batman had fever again: 102.7 (normal temp is 101.8) so he got a .2 metacam dose. Bane has lost weight again, he’s leaning towards virus rather than vaccine injury although he sees Batman is walking quite badly. He thinks it's because fevers cause joint stiffness and pain.

Afternoon - Batman laying on bed, gave him tuna and juice as he was licking his lips and he drank a lot of it and ate a little of it - he did not get up to eat though, ate it while laying in the same spot. Bane also had some tuna juice.

5pm - Batman looked alert and hungry so I tried some regular and he ate it all, then he got treats and ate those too. Bane ate all his treats and ate a 1/2 portion of regular food. Batman is cleaning himself.

7pm - both get 22mls of syringe mix
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nov 27

4am - Batman pood in litter and asked to go out using side door, was walking badly up the stairs (stiff back legs, kicking them out as he walks straight not bent), comes in window almost right away to nap on perch

9am - Both eating usual breakfast but both mostly just eat the juices and leave the rest, Bane jumped up to the window, walked around outside, is doing pretty well mobility wise, Batman is still walking wonky and stiff, Batman temp; 38.9C/102.2F (slight fever), Bane pees a good amount in litter.

9:30am - 22mls of syringe mix into both

11:30am - Bane asks to go out the side door, is walking so much better but there still seems to be a bit of pain in his back right paw maybe.

At the present moment:

Batman is doing about as bad as Bane was at his worst as far as not eating/drinking, being lethargic, not being able to move or with great difficulty and his gait is terrible. He’s not in as much pain though (I can lift him without him moaning, doesn’t moan in pain while sleeping and his mood is generally happy, cuddly and still purrs but more when his fever is down after Metacam doses, otherwise he's just very sleepy, limp and lethargic).

Bane is definitely a lot better, a lot more mobile, less grouchy, I wish he would eat better but is generally pretty good. Not 100% but hopefully we’ll get there.
 

Sweetkittycats

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The things that you posted that made me relate to your story were these point:

"He was lip smacking a lot"

"sleeps the whole day"

"He has some balance issues, and has toppled sideways a couple times."

"Bun definitely hasn't been drinking a lot of water. Probably less than usual because he was also eating less than usual"

"still has some interest in the world around him although he sleeps almost the whole day."

"Bun seems to be in much better spirits now except for the difficulty in walking"

"It was rabies and FVRCP-chlamydia."

"Bun has a lot of poop in him and is constipated"

"he came out of his bed today for the first time in about 3 weeks just to "hang out" so that's a good sign"

Initially, the weakness, difficulty walking was only Bane and I was treating it as a Convenia adverse reaction to which therapeutic dose pre/probiotics are recommended. I do believe that did help him quite a bit, in fact, it may have even saved him.

But once Batman also got the weakness/walking issues I was so confused as I thought it was Convenia and Batman didn't get any. So that's when I went back to the vaccine being the culprit (as all this started after vaccinations - zero issues beforehand on either cat) and I looked up some key words and found your post.

I too think this is neurological in some way but only intuitively (I'm not credentialed in immunology like you are).
 

Sweetkittycats

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My Bun observations for reference

18/07/21I notice Bun has nail infectionPresently:
19/07/21Vet visit Animal Medical Centre. Baytril prescribed. 1 dose administered, Bun refuses any further dosesEating and drinking normal, good apetite. Purrs when petted
21/07/21Vet visit Meadowbrook Animal Clinic, receives Convenia injection. Buprenorphine perscribed, 1 dose administered in evening, and the next dayLitter box use appears normal
22/07/21Bun is dazed, discontinue buprenorphineExtremely reluctant to walk. Only for food and litter box
End of JulyInfection resolvesAwkward gait. Difficulty getting up from a lying position.
17/08/21Vet visit Glenora. Normal checkup. FVRCP-C and Rabies vaccine administeredFatigues easily when walking, will sit or lie down in random spots
28/8/21Bun appears lethargic, doesn't eat wellImpaired proprioception (?) leg may be positioned awkwardly when Bun sits and he will not reposition it
29/8/21Bun extremely lethargic, doesn't eat at all. Lip smacking/swallowing noted. Looks at food bowls, doesn't eat. Cervical ventriflexion noted
30/8/21Vet visit Glenora. SubQ H20, blood test: mostly normal. Bun eats 2.5 "Churu" tubes in afternoon.
31/8/21Sleeps all day. Eats a few Churu and treats (~100 calories)
1/9/21Mitrazapine administered, eating improves. I notice limping in hind leg(s), I thought it was from inactivity. Administer buprenorphine evening.
2/9/21Litter box in use. Bun is extremely reluctant to walk, will only walk for food and litter box
3/9/21Notice Bun is walking plantigrade (filmed), not limping per se. Still stays in bed all day
5/9/21Bun begins eating normally at this point. Seems "happier", but absolutely does not want to walk. Start giving Bun 1mg B12 daily (ongoing)
7/9/21Walking seems even worse. Very awkward gait, head bobbing up and down somewhat
8/9/21Vet visit Glenora. Xray and heart ultrasound by non-specialist. Bun appears to be able to walk better at vet ??! All appears normal, except Bun is constipated. 1.5mL Restorlax administered in evening and for the next 2 days
9/10/21But sleeps with eyes open. I’ve never seen him do that before
10/9/21Bun make a small poop. Meows while pooping, which I haven't seen him do before

He started improving after this and I did not observe any new symptoms so I stopped charting
Hello Misha_Bun_and_Pika Misha_Bun_and_Pika , please see my replies with answers to your questions. Thanks!
 
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Misha_Bun_and_Pika

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Hi @ S Sweetkittycats

That is very perplexing. Interesting that Bun received Convenia as well, and I included that in the history because his nail infection happened not too long before the mystery illness. One notable difference from what you've described is that Bun never had a fever, although in my opinion 39.9C isn't a "high" fever in a cat. A vet might have a different opinion of course, and I should qualify that I have no specific knowledge or training in veterinary medicine, or clinical medicine for that matter!! I'm in medical research so I don't deal with patients, but rather with patient data. Also the blood work in Batman and Bane has never suggested an infection, although this is not something that can be proven or disproven 100% through a blood test only.

What is similar is that there was variation in symptoms day to day although i could see a general trend with Bun declining until a nadir, and then improving. I charted that Bun first appeared lethargic 11 days after vaccine, but it wasn't a sudden dramatic event. I think he was a bit off before that like you mention with your kitties, and I just wasn't attentive enough to notice it until it got quite bad. Reading your synopsis now reminded me when Bun was so weak and I could tell that he wanted to get up but couldn't. I got my mom to come over because she is his favourite person, and when he saw her he gave the saddest little meow in the world because he couldn't run up for pets, it broke my heart. 😭

I'm going to call Bun's mystery illness GBS for convenience, even though that isn't a diagnosis in cats. "Coonhound disease" is a veterinary diagnosis that has a similar pathology, but I'm going with GBS. I'm mainly going to refer to this because I do see similarities with what you describe in Batman and Bane and my Bun and this is what I did my research on. Ie. I've read a lot of data based research papers in both human and veterinary medical journals and have fair knowledge of the condition now. When it comes to any other cat illness I know about as much as the next person who has googled some symptoms.

A descriptive (not diagnostic) term for what I believe happened in Bun is acute peripheral polyneuropathy, and this is key. To break it down:

neuropathy - a disfunction of nerves, which are comprised of bundles of connected neurons that are the building blocks. The main kinds of neurons are sensory (related to senses & perception. sight, hearing, touch, pain, heat etc), motor (muscle involvement, movement), autonomic (automatic functions; heart beating, breathing, digestive processes, etc), and cranial (head and face). A neuropathy can involve one or all types of neurons, and it is not an all or nothing deal as impairment can range from mild to complete.
  1. Motor neuron involvement is the easiest to notice such as when there is abnormal movement. A deep tendon reflex test can be diagnostic, and this is something I tried on Bun, the patellar (knee kick) reflex. I made a little hammer using an eraser as the head 😆. It *seemed* to me that his reflex was dulled or absent when i compared to my other cats, but I really didn't have enough confidence in my testing skill to be able to make a conclusion. The neurologist however was able to confirm that there was no reflex.
  2. Sensory motor involvement can be tested in a multitude of ways, perhaps most simply by a pin-prick test, and I also subjected poor Bun to this. But again, if you don't have a good baseline for how the cat normally responds it really won't tell you much unless sensation is entirely absent, which is less likely as typically there is impairment and not complete ablation. You can also look up veterinary proprioception tests, and some of them are not too bad for kitty, only involve putting kitty in weird positions and doing funny walks. I noticed Buns legs sticking out awkwardly at times when he was just sitting, which is also indicative.
  3. Autonomic nerve impairment might be manifested by a multitude of things such as constipation, elevated heart rate, salivation, etc. Autonomic dysfunction can be a life threatening situation of course, such as when the breathing apparatus or the heart are severely affected.
  4. Lastly cranial nerve involvement, there's 12 of them and it gets quite complex. I mentioned that I noticed Bun was sleeping with his eyes open which can be caused by impaired function of cranial nerve VII. And I don't mean droopy but not completely shut, I mean wide open.
This is a good video of a neurological exam in an animal , just for reference. For someone that is untrained (including myself) and doesn't have experience performing the tests in multiple patients it is difficult to make any conclusions, but I think the video is informative as far as describing how neuropathy may present.


peripheral - outside of the brain and spinal cord aka central nervous system (CNS). Hence, "peripheral neuropathy" means that there is damage/impairment of the nerves outside the CNS. A central neuropathy may be related to a brain tumor, stroke, blood clot, and one needs to eliminate the possibility of CNS involvement. It seems unlikely in your case since 2 cats are affected, and I think any decent vet would be able to diagnose a CNS event during a visit, perhaps with the exception of a brain tumor which can have an infinite number of manifestations. Central neuropathies are more likely to be "all or nothing" than peripheral ones.

poly - many. "Polyneuropathy" therefore meaning many nerves are affected. This also helps to narrow down the diagnosis, because it points away from a specific physical injury. One observes whether symptoms are confined to one limb, or one side of the body, which would point away from GBS.

acute - sudden and severe onset. Not necessarily meaning that it appears within a minute and that it is life threatening. But we distinguishe the symptoms from others such as diabetic neuropathy which has a gradual onset and is a chronic condition. Severe is a relative term, severe enough to disrupt normal everyday functioning.

So with that lengthy but I hope not too technical description, does it seem that your cats are exhibiting "acute peripheral polyneuropathy?" Because if yes, there are actually *very* few possible causes, and the most probable one is immune mediated destruction of nerves, aka GBS. The others are poisoning/toxin mediated, and idiopathic ie. unknown cause.
Let me know if you think it fits, and I can expand a bit on what to expect
And here is my Bun video, i see the link is broken.
Bun
 
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