Non recognition aggression

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D_H

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Yes but it hurts my heart knowing that Gracie is downstairs all by herself
I know, it's hard :(
My partner and I spend most of the day in different rooms, each one with a different cat. Same goes for the nights.

Both of us work from home so they're never alone. Can't think about leaving one of them locked up, alone, for so many hours.
 
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D_H

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Boone is so terrified that even hearing Gracie cry at the door sent him running into my room and under my comforter.
That's awful, poor Boone :(
 

cleoandsuki87

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It is stressful, that's exactly why I've added "support group" to the title:hithere:

Jean and Torti are probably littermates, and were rescued together from the street by a friend. We've adopted them when they were 3-4 months old, and so the first time we encountered the situation was when we took one of them to get spayed.

We've read everything online and tried to do it by the book. It took us five long days and nights, and when it was over it was a complete surprise!
It was in the evening of day 5, one of them managed to escape her room and... both of them seemed fine.

Second time was when we took the other to get spayed, and this time we knew it was going to happen so we've planned things in advanced. It lasted 3-4 days.

This time around, it's almost two weeks, and to be honest I don't know how much longer we can cope.
Thanks, I was just more curious as to if any of the recommended "prevention strategies" actually worked. Sounds like no. I hate that this would be a regular thing. My previous cat (who was an only) had a chronic medical condition that required many vet visits. He lived with it for 4 years with really good quality of life; it was easy to give him meds and while he obviously didn't like the vet visits, he was completely fine as soon as arriving back home. With these cats, knowing we'd be doing this after every vet visit, I don't think it would be feasible or worth it for their quality of life to be able to treat a chronic condition, if something like that happened. So sad to think about- knowing that every medical thing is going to lead to this, even if it's a minor issue.

I'd been so happy with the decision to get 2, knowing that they'd have a buddy while I'm at work and especially when I'm out of town. I even purposefully got a pair that was already bonded, so I knew they'd be real buddies and would get those benefits. Having been through this and knowing it's likely to happen again and again, I think I'd go back to getting just one next time.

We are an upward trend but definitely not "normal." Day 7. They are mostly tolerating being in the same space, as long as I'm careful about watching, and step in to distract if I see things going downhill. Sometimes, they are meowing or just doing a "stare down" rather than hissing/growling, which is an improvement. They've continued to sniff noses a few times. Hissing/growling is much less but still happening, if one surprises the other, or if one approaches the other too quickly. Cleo also attempted to sniff Suki's butt, and Suki found that to be extremely offensive. After a bit, it clearly gets to be too much and I'll separate them so they can take a break, and then we try again in a bit. They are also just clearly very cautious/suspicious/hyper aware of the other in general- I can tell by their body language. They are only relaxed in the same space when both are snoozing/laying down.
 

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So this happened to us a few weeks before christmas, Im not sure what sparked it but my two cats are siblings, brother and sister and they have been living in harmony for about 6 years. I thi k the boy got spooked by somthing and jumped on his sister and really hurt her. We had about 5 days where she would growl and hiss at him and few cases of her chraging at him. We broke it up of course and slowly they were able to sleep in the same room but when they were awake there would be the hissing and groling from her.

We seperated them at night and if no one could be home locked one up which we hated as they both didnt want to be the one isolated. It was so hard and stressful so I know where you are coming from.

Gradually it became less and less and we really made a huge effort to play with them both in the same room so they could associate fun things with being together. The growling and hissing has now stopped and we are living in harmony again. We also got the Feliway diffusers. I dont know if they helped or not. It took us about 3 weeks to get back to normal, so baby steps everyday make a difference.

It sounds like you are on the path to getting things back to where they were. Be patient, it will happen.
 
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D_H

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Day 3 of complete separation: meals at different spots and lots of playing during the day.
The thing I hate the most? How quick we've got used to the new routine.
The cats do seems calmer and I wonder if we should try to play with both of them in the same room.
 
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D_H

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Opened the door, just a bit, while we played; ended pretty quickly as Jean hissed at Torti, yet again :(

I feel so bad for Torti, I think that the whole situation has broken her spirit.. she still cries when left alone in the room, but she doesn't try to escape as she used to. As if she's calling us asking for company.

What's more, she suddenly started to sit on our lap. She never sat on us. The only times she'd set her foot on us was when we were on her way, then she'd just walk over us :lol:

*I will say that I really love it that she feels so comfortable to be on us, really heart warming
 

cleoandsuki87

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What's more, she suddenly started to sit on our lap. She never sat on us. The only times she'd set her foot on us was when we were on her way, then she'd just walk over us :lol:
My Suki was doing the same thing. She's always showed affection in her own ways, but I'd accepted that she would just never like to be held. Especially when they were separated 100% of the time, she loved being picked up and carried like a baby. Part of me loved it and part of me was sad because I figured she must be doing it because she's so lonely!

I'm pretty much seeing the same as yesterday, so far. I am NOT getting into a routine. It's exhausting working all day and then having to watch them every second at home. I give myself a few breaks where I separate them just so I can take a mental break, but I try not to do that too much as I want them to hopefully continue to make more progress. There has been lots of nose sniffing, but after a bit of that Suki will start growling. And still BIG hisses/growls/freaking out if one manages to surprise the other.
 
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D_H

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It's exhausting working all day and then having to watch them every second at home
Do you keep them at separate rooms while at work?

I give myself a few breaks where I separate them just so I can take a mental break
It's so important, self care is something that we might neglect while in this kind of situation.
Are you dealing with all of this on your own?

Torti is still being locked up, usually with me in one room- either when I'm working or when I'm sleeping. I hate the fact that Jean gets to roam the house freely while Torti can't leave her room.

After reading here about so many cases where things don't go back to normal - and people live with that! - I'm starting to think that maybe we should just open the door and hope for the best :dunno:
Maybe we should let them figure it out on their own :/
 

cleoandsuki87

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Do you keep them at separate rooms while at work?

It's so important, self care is something that we might neglect while in this kind of situation.
Are you dealing with all of this on your own?

Torti is still being locked up, usually with me in one room- either when I'm working or when I'm sleeping. I hate the fact that Jean gets to roam the house freely while Torti can't leave her room.

After reading here about so many cases where things don't go back to normal - and people live with that! - I'm starting to think that maybe we should just open the door and hope for the best :dunno:
Maybe we should let them figure it out on their own :/
Yes, I have Suki in the cat room (spare bedroom) during my work day while Cleo is out in the rest of the house. At night, Suki gets the house while I put Cleo in with me. Cleo is the only one who likes to sleep with me anyway, so that sort of worked out.

I am by myself. When I look back at where we started the first day of the vet appointment, things have definitely drastically improved, and I try to remember that. But they are still not close to normal. I was just thinking, that when they are both in the cat room (with me) there are very few issues because it's a relatively confined space. They haven't been bothering each other and will even sniff noses occasionally. Then, just before typing this, Suki cornered poor Cleo in the closet. Thankfully, she didn't actually hurt her, but Cleo was very scared and eventually started growling at Suki. Suki was sort of pouncing at her (hard to tell if may be she thought she was playing?) Thankfully Cleo was able to run out and I have the door shut for now, but Suki is whining to get out.

I got a bit of a break last night because they were both worn out enough to leave each other alone for a few hours. They snoozed in their respective favorite spots in the living room, without worrying about the other one, for quite a long time last night. As soon as they are walking around, though, that's when the trouble starts. One will approach the other too quickly, or one will walk around the corner without realizing the other is there. They also both get extremely freaked out if they see the other on the stairs- I guess the space feels confined?

Back when they were buddies, they would regularly play games of chasing each other, hiding and leaping out at the other, play wrestling, etc. I even googled this when I first got them just to make sure (since I'd never had 2) and everything said this was totally normal and all in fun as long as one cat wasn't doing all of the chasing/"attacking" and as long as it was noiseless. I'm not sure after this incident how they will ever be able to go back to this.
 

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Ugh, I am so sad. Every time I feel like progress is being made, a setback happens. They were just fine for about an hour both being out. Occasionally approaching each other and sniffing, no hissing or growling. Then they started sort of running up to one another. This made me nervous, but there continued to be no hissing or growling- at worst, they would sort of both stop and stare at each other, or there might be some batting, but I was encouraged by no hissing/growling. I was able to easily get them to look away from each other- which I know Jackson Galaxy says is a goal when introducing cats. I thought maybe they were just playing, and that I had been overreacting and they were ready to just be out all of the time. Then Cleo ran at Suki- maybe just attempting to play, maybe not. Very hard to say. This led to a huge hissing/growling/barring teeth/ferocious meowing/trying to attack each other moment upstairs. It happened so quick. I was able to separate them (I think) before any physical damage was done, but my sweet, sweet Cleo turned on me for a second! Thankfully she didn't really hurt me but I've never seen her like that. She is the most affectionate and mellow cat I've ever had. They are separated again right now. I don't know if I need to go back to only brief supervised visits with distractions or what. I don't want to go backwards but I also don't want to do irreparable damage.

I hate this so much. I will NEVER have more than one cat again after this experience. I had never heard of this entire phenomenon prior to it happening to me. I knew the whole thing where people try to get a second cat as a "friend" and they end up just hating each other. I've seen enough My Cat from Hell episodes to know that often doesn't work out, and the cat would have preferred not having any "friends." I thought I was completely side stepping this issue by getting a bonded pair, and even held off on adopting until I could specifically find a bonded pair I wanted. What a fool I was!
 
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D_H

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but my sweet, sweet Cleo turned on me for a second!
Happened to me several times during the first evening.. again, one other cat got back from the vet, and they had a rough encounter.
I was petting Jean, and showing her love as she was scared, Torti cried in the other room and Jean attacked me!

We're so sick and tired of the situation, after several days of complete separation. Today we'll try to get them together - with vanilla - for lots of short playing sessions together and alone.
 

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It is breaking my heart how Boone and Gracie have accepted their new living arrangements and seem perfectly ok with never seeing each other again. My husband swears they will work it out and we can reunite them when they start acting curious about each other through the door. He also reminds me that it hasn't even been a full week yet so it's not a big deal that they don't miss one another.

I have moved some of Gracie's toys and her tunnel downstairs so she will have stuff to do. We only have one window and the sliding glass door down there. The door is half covered with cardboard so the black cat can't see in but that also means that Gracie can't see out except what is high up. Same with the window in the bedroom. Most of it is just the window well material so she can only see high stuff.

What is really worrisome is my anger towards that stray black cat that caused this whole thing. I want to see him dead but I know that the damage has been done and it won't suddenly fix anything between Boone and Gracie.
 

cleoandsuki87

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It is breaking my heart how Boone and Gracie have accepted their new living arrangements and seem perfectly ok with never seeing each other again. My husband swears they will work it out and we can reunite them when they start acting curious about each other through the door. He also reminds me that it hasn't even been a full week yet so it's not a big deal that they don't miss one another.
Unless they are actively hissing/growling under the door, or hissing/growling when they hear the other one, I don't know that I would go with this strategy, honestly. My cats expressed no interest in playing under the door or anything like that- I think if I had waited for that, we would have made no progress thus far. I would try to move them ahead if you can- open the door a crack and see what they do. Maybe you and your husband are each with one cat, engage it in playing first, and then open the door a little so the focus isn't just on the open door.

Happened to me several times during the first evening.. again, one other cat got back from the vet, and they had a rough encounter.
I was petting Jean, and showing her love as she was scared, Torti cried in the other room and Jean attacked me!

We're so sick and tired of the situation, after several days of complete separation. Today we'll try to get them together - with vanilla - for lots of short playing sessions together and alone.
I am just so relieved that Cleo didn't end up with any lasting redirected aggression at me. Thankfully she's still being super cuddly and clearly feels okay around me.

It is just so hard to figure out the next right thing to do. Part of me thinks that one or both of them is just trying to play, but then maybe the other doesn't react appropriately, or one or both of them gets scared. OTOH, they haven't returned to any of their previous "bonding" behaviors AT ALL- grooming, cuddling, sleeping together, even sitting near one another, etc. I don't want to prolong things with more periods of separation, but I also don't want to make things worse and end up prolonging it even further in the long run if I'm pushing them too hard to be in the same space.
 

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Hit enter too soon- meant to say, good luck with your play sessions today and please update!
 

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Unless they are actively hissing/growling under the door, or hissing/growling when they hear the other one, I don't know that I would go with this strategy, honestly. My cats expressed no interest in playing under the door or anything like that- I think if I had waited for that, we would have made no progress thus far. I would try to move them ahead if you can- open the door a crack and see what they do. Maybe you and your husband are each with one cat, engage it in playing first, and then open the door a little so the focus isn't just on the open door.



I am just so relieved that Cleo didn't end up with any lasting redirected aggression at me. Thankfully she's still being super cuddly and clearly feels okay around me.

It is just so hard to figure out the next right thing to do. Part of me thinks that one or both of them is just trying to play, but then maybe the other doesn't react appropriately, or one or both of them gets scared. OTOH, they haven't returned to any of their previous "bonding" behaviors AT ALL- grooming, cuddling, sleeping together, even sitting near one another, etc. I don't want to prolong things with more periods of separation, but I also don't want to make things worse and end up prolonging it even further in the long run if I'm pushing them too hard to be in the same space.
There is no way I can let them see each other at this point. Boone growls and hisses and sprays at the sight of her. Gracie is at the point where she is terrified to step one foot off the stairs. Boone will hiss and growl at me for an hour or two after seeing her.
 

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I plan on calling the vet on Monday to see about getting Boone on some anxiety meds to hopefully get him to stop being so reactive to Gracie.
 

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I am going to try something today to hopefully get them to bond together over a stressful event. Saw something similar on one of the vet TV shows. Plan on putting them in separate carriers and going for a long-ish car ride. I am hoping the stress of the carrier and ride will let them forget they currently hate each other. :crossfingers:
 

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I am going to try something today to hopefully get them to bond together over a stressful event. Saw something similar on one of the vet TV shows. Plan on putting them in separate carriers and going for a long-ish car ride. I am hoping the stress of the carrier and ride will let them forget they currently hate each other. :crossfingers:
Part 1 is done. The car ride. No hissing at all. I had them facing each other in the back seat. Got home and Boone ran into the bath tub snd and Gracie ran downstairs so not sure if it was successful.
 
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D_H

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Hit enter too soon- meant to say, good luck with your play sessions today and please update!
Had lots of plans but... not much happened. It's almost a week of complete separation, only recently we've went back to feeding them next to the (closed) door.
We are playing with them a lot more, 5 minutes, each one of us with a cat, next to the door.

It seems that Jean (the aggressor) has gained more confidence, but she's not as she used to be (for each nap she will make a mess out of blankets, then crawl under them. It might be cute, sure as hell funny - but she's never done that before).

Hopefully tomorrow we'll try to do something else..
 

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If you can get a pet gate that they can see through and reach through, do that. Rub a blanket on one cat then rub the other cat with it. Do it for the other cat as well. Use the same brush for each, let them smell it. Try calming collars - they do work. I had two cats that would growl at one another. After a month of scent swapping and the see through reach through pet gate, they now tolerate one another well. Also be conscious that your own anxiety does have an effect on the cats so try to be conscious of this. Good luck!
 
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