Newbie in Canada

franksmom

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Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of research on cat food and have found both your site and others like catinfo.org to be helpful. I have been transitioning my very picky 4 year old ragdoll, Frank Sinatra, onto wet food. I have always been concerned with his diet and used to feed him orijin and wellness pouches until I moved back home and he got hooked on prescription Science Diet that my sister's cat ate (my mother also claimed he was far too skinny and was looking healthier on the new "junk food"). Sadly the older cat died a few months ago and I put my foot down that Frank would no longer eat food that I consider junk (I also do not want him to die at 14 like our other cat).

Frank has always been very picky and I used to have to hand feed him wellness wet food when he was younger. Even with the Science Diet he wasn't a huge eater. He is now eating Weruva, Hound and Gatos, and Tiki cat with his favourite freeze dried chicken placed on top (he will not eat it otherwise). He will not eat more than an oz. at a time, but today he has already bothered me three times to feed him, so I think the transition is going ok. I will have to give him some orijiin this weekend as my friend is cat sitting him and there is no way he will eat wet food for her nor will she go to the same lengths I do to get him to eat (but I will ask her to try).

Ultimately, I would like to feed him a raw diet but I am very skeptical that he will ever eat it, due to his crazyness about food. He is super weird when he is eating and always has been. He seems to have difficulty chewing and it always takes him forever to eat a small amount and if he gets any stuck in his teeth he will shake is front paw and refuse to eat anymore. I have asked three different vets about this and they all say he does not have any dental disease and are not sure why he does this. One vet said it might be cerebral palsy or maybe even had oxygen deprivation when he was born (he is the runt)- other than being a very weird animal he is very healthy so I am not sure if any of these apply. He just had a check up and the vet said he didn't need a dental, but maybe I should make them do one anyway to see if they can find anything wrong? Has anyone had any experiences with cats behaving like this?

My next question is about what type of commercial raw food to buy in Canada? I found the thread on Canadian suppliers (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248687/canadian-raw-food-suppliers) but I am unsure what is the best brand. I would like something like "Felines Pride", which appears to be the best American brand. Carnova (http://www.carnivora.ca/) seems good but I am worried that they do not add extra taurine and other supplements like the recipe on catinfo.org- I emailed them this question and they haven't responded, so I am kind of irritated. Spring Meadows Natural Pet Food is the only cat food that appears to be a member in good standing of the Canadian Association of Raw Food Manufacturers- is this important? They seem like a good company but again do not seem to add extra supplements. There seem to be a lot of really good ones further down on the thread, are any of these better? I will also be getting a new kitten in the next two months or so and I would like to get him eating raw right away even if I have to still feed Frank canned, so I want to figure out the best brand to buy.

For the kitten I want him to get used to eating raw right away and I was wondering if I could give him raw chicken wings, because I want him to get used to chewing on them for dental health?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for any help you can provide!
 

vball91

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First, welcome to TCS! This is a great site, especially if you are interested in raw feeding. Your Frank sounds a lot like my Aria who is also a picky and slow eater. I'm not sure about the paw shaking thing. I've never heard of anything
like that before.

To offer you some hope about raw feeding a picky cat, just this week, after more than 2 months trying to transition her to raw, she has finally started eating strips of meat, and quickly too! The last two months have been an experiment in chopping, dicing and grinding different meats and using different toppers to see what she will eat. I don't know what changed, but she's eating raw without fussing now.

Since Frank is already eating wet food, and you have a reliable topper, I think going raw is definitely possible. You could try including some tiny bits of raw meat with his wet food.

As for Canadian suppliers, I have no clue so can't offer much advice, but I have heard good things about Carnivora. If supplementation is a concern, you could just buy taurine powder (along with any other supplements you want) and sprinkle it
on his food before serving.

Yes, you could feed your new kitten chicken wings if he will eat them, but you do need to worry about too high a bone content if you also feed bone in ground mixes. Alternatively, you could put chicken wings in a prey model raw (frankenprey) weekly menu.
 
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vball91

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Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. Are there freeze-dried complete meals available in Canada, like Stella & Chewy's? Still raw but much more convenient, and most cats seem to like the taste of the Chicken Dinner, even my picky cat who doesn't really like chicken.
 
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franksmom

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Thanks so much for your reply, I was reading your previous posts about Aria and she sounds a lot like Frank, it gave me some hope that maybe I can get him to eat raw. I am going to try to introduce some pieces into his wet in a week or so and see if he will eat it. He still is not super happy with the wet food as is so want to give him some time to adjust.

Would you recommend adding taurine supplements ? I know raw already has lots in it, so is it necessary to add it? It seems from some of the commercial raw meat websites that they claim the taurine in raw meat should be enough for cats. I am kind of confused if supplements are even needed for whole ground meat?  (I would add fish oil but so far I have to give that to frank separately because he will not even eat it on his freeze dried chicken- he hates the smell)
 
 
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franksmom

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I am going to look for the freeze dried meals next time I am at the pet food store (they sell a ton of different raw brands). He does love the purebites freeze dried chicken but it seems to lose its appeal when it is no longer crunchy.
 

vball91

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The general consensus is that for ground raw, you need to supplement because the grinding process causes oxidation which causes some nutrient loss. How much has not been studied/determined that I can tell. Taurine, because it's such an important amino acid for cats is one that is commonly supplemented. Because it's water soluble, cats can't overdose from too much taurine, so a lot of people supplement it just in case. Luckily, it is not that expensive (at least in the US), so it's easy enough to do. Personally I think there's a lot of focus on taurine when it should probably be on all 11 essential amino acids for cats.

As for fish oil, I had no luck with a high quality salmon oil which surprised me because she loves fish. It's very strong smelling to me though so I can't imagine how powerful the scent is to her. I'm also not sure if it caused a bout of diarrhea because I didn't introduce it slowly, and now she won't go near it. I'm going to give up on salmon oil and try krill oil which most cats seem to find less objectionable. However, it's a LOT more expensive.
 
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franksmom

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Thanks for the info I will def add taurine to the ground meat. I am giving Frank Acenta fish oil for cats, which I got at the vet and I think it is sardine oil. Frank likes tuna but he will not eat the oil on anything, so I just use the syringe to give it to him. I know it is kind of mean but he really doesn't seem care and does lick his lips after I give it to him, so maybe he does like it? He is sooo weird.
 
 

harleydiva

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Thanks for the info I will def add taurine to the ground meat. I am giving Frank Acenta fish oil for cats, which I got at the vet and I think it is sardine oil. Frank likes tuna but he will not eat the oil on anything, so I just use the syringe to give it to him. I know it is kind of mean but he really doesn't seem care and does lick his lips after I give it to him, so maybe he does like it? He is sooo weird.
 
I just got a new brand of salmon oil.... http://www.doggiefood.com/lakrwicprsao.html .....supposed to be pharmaceutical grade, and definitely doesn't seem to have much ordor,  The cats see pretty tolerant of it.
 

white shadow

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....I am giving Frank Acenta fish oil for cats..........he will not eat the oil on anything, so I just use the syringe to give it to him
Hi Franksmom, and welcome to TCS!

When I read the bit about giving the fish oil by syringe, I cringed!

I sent you a message right away, but I'm not sure you received it...so,

There's a huge danger when trying to get any kind of liquid "into" a cat by mouth...that danger becomes compounded if the cat is struggling and resisting.

The danger is that the cat may aspirate - breathe in - the liquid.

This inhalation can cause a very dangerous and often fatal lung condition, known as aspiration pneumonia. Here's a little about it http://www.petplace.com/cats/aspiration-pneumonia-in-cats/page1.aspx (you can simply close that popup - button at bottom of window)

An oil is probably the worst possible offender in this regard - simply because of its viscosity.

If Frank does not like fish oil - and, it seems that many cats do not - it's likely that he'll find Krill oil much more palatable, as many people have discovered.

The 'Krill oil specialist' on TCS is LDG - you could certainly send her a message, or do an advanced search of the forum for "Krill" and username "LDG"

But, please, do reconsider using that syringe!

(as a btw, it's helpful to know just which "fish oils" are best to use...they're not all created equal...and, the issue of just which fatty acids for what purpose(s) is important to address...I'm sure that LDG can help sort these out, and in the meantime, here's some reading for you http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1306+1448&aid=665 )
 
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franksmom

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Obviously I do not put the liqued down his throat. I just use it to get him to lick it up for some reason he will lick it up that way but not in his food, but thanks for the super judgemental post that had nothing to do with my original question- I am well aware that pouring liqued down a cats throat is something one should not do.
 

otto

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Franksmom, while you may be aware of the dangers of syringing other people may not, and you didn't explain that you were not syringing it down his throat, it wasn't obvious, and I was thinking the same thing as I read it. White Shadow's warning is quite a reasonable response. :)

Some people whose cats won't eat the krill just give the cat the whole capsule. My cats don't like krill, but will eat it dusted with some topper of Vets-Best hairball relief.

You may have better luck with raw than with canned, the food is so different some cats who don't like canned at all, take to raw like pros!

Welcome to TCS and good luck transitioning Frank (and the new kitten when s/he comes).
 
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white shadow

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Franksmom, I am very sorry that what I've posted has upset you.

And, truly sorry that what was intended as helpful advice/information to a new member here, was seen as my being "judgemental".

I know that what I wrote had nothing to do with your initial post and that you happened to add it in by way of passing. However, as otto said above, it was a red flag to others here as well.

I'm writing now not to justify, but, to explain my motivation, and to say that I see members of this community looking out for each others' kitties all the time.

And, I did not suggest that you would "pour" liquid down Frank's throat - it was that Frank himself can accidentally inhale the oil.

Again, please accept my apology.

......................................

For anyone else reading here, the Merck Veterinary Manual (for Veterinary care professionals) has this to say about the inhalation of oils by cats....this is so dangerous that, if even it is suspected - without symptoms - a/b's are immediately recommended.
Aspiration pneumonia is a lung infection caused by inhalation of foreign material. The severity of the inflammation depends on the material inhaled...A common cause...is the improper administration of liquid medicines...

Cats are particularly susceptible to aspiration pneumonia caused by...products such as...oil.

...prevention is better than treatment. This is especially the case for aspiration pneumonia, because the outlook is poor even with treatment. The rate of death is high, and recovered animals often develop lung abscesses.

If a cat is known to have inhaled a foreign substance, broad-spectrum antibiotics are usually prescribed without waiting for signs of pneumonia to appear.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/petheal...rway_disorders_of_cats/pneumonia_in_cats.html
 

tonia newton

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I am thread jacking. I know this is a past post, but I am a newby with raw food as well and was searching before I posted my question (I too am from Canada and cant find stuff I need :( ). Anyhow, my heart sunk about the reply about not syringe it down.... My cat's vet has told me to administer a liquid med and oil supplement and showed me how to do it even.... Now I feel so bad. So thank you for the obviously, stupid mistake I did, which leads me to ask how would one give liquid to an animal that will not eat it in their food? I am sorry about the high jack.
 
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franksmom

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I am thread jacking. I know this is a past post, but I am a newby with raw food as well and was searching before I posted my question (I too am from Canada and cant find stuff I need :( ). Anyhow, my heart sunk about the reply about not syringe it down.... My cat's vet has told me to administer a liquid med and oil supplement and showed me how to do it even.... Now I feel so bad. So thank you for the obviously, stupid mistake I did, which leads me to ask how would one give liquid to an animal that will not eat it in their food? I am sorry about the high jack.
It is fine to give liquid via syringe you just can not force it down their throat. You put it in their mouth (aim for the side) and let them swallow. If the vet showed you are probably doing it right but here is a video (http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-give-your-cat-medication). You just should not let your cat inhale anything whether it be food, oil or liquid. My cat is very docile and it is really easy to syringe him and he just licks and swallows anything I give him and I have even had to syringe feed him food before with no issue.

The above comments I believe to be alarmist and there should not be a problem administering medication and supplements as directed by your vet- again as long as you are allowing him to swallow on his own and he is not inhaling it. 

Some cats will eat medication and supplements in wet food, but mine won't so that is why I use a syringe. I have had cats and dogs all my life and have always given medication via syringe and there has never been an issue because I do it properly. 
 
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