new kittens ... adults not happy ...to keep or not to keep

[flybear]

Two weeks ago we brought home two little kittens to our cat family of 3. We have two sisters age 3 and one 4.5 month old rescue kitten ( who had to become a more or less temporary family member due to some medical issues that make him hard to adopt ) . We did a very careful introduction with the kittens over two weeks ... with a separate quarantine room, scent exchange ... . This is not our first kitten introduction ... we are an on and off foster family. This time however ... our adult girls do not like the kittens. The 4.5 month old is playing with the kittens quite nicely still being a kitten himself ... but the adults won't let the babies come close ... they hiss or swat them even though they really seem to love the older kitten ( sleeping cuddling ...) ... I think there have been two issues ... one is that the babies tried to nurse on the girls a few times which they immediately hated ... and the other is .. that the babies initially needed medication and might have just smelled weird and had some GI issues ... However ... I have the feeling that relationships are not improving at all. We have tried to take a step back and keep the babies in the bathroom to give the adults some breathing room but ... our cats know how to open doors and jailbreak the babies - at least a few times a day ( despite our best efforts to secure that door ... we have Houdinis ... ). The babies have good social skills - they don't bug the adults and really mind their own business ... they are not pushy and really mellow and sweet and immediately back off and go elsewhere when hissed at - they are not rough in play and they wait patiently when someone is eating their food and don't steal toys- no dominant behavior, no pesky kitten syndrome- they are Ragdolls and probably the most mellow and easy going kittens we ever had. The adults usually just ignore the babies unless they get too close at which point they receive a hiss and maybe a swat ( babies always take the hint and go elsewhere ). We have not noticed any hiding or litter box issues... everyone eats well - sometimes in close proximity to each other - we free feed and have multiple food and water stations and 6 litter boxes in three rooms, lots of hiding spaces and many cat trees, shelves and cat-ified spaces. I have to decide when "enough is enough" ... I do not want tension in my cat family permanently and 5 cats are a LOT - but I have to admit that this time ... we are head over heals in love with the babies ( I am sure the adult can sense that and maybe that is why they act the way they do lol ). To those of you that have larger cat families ... what are warning signs you would not ignore- or reasons to re-home a newcomer due to incompatibility? I will keep the babies until neutering for sure ... another two weeks-until they are 12 weeks but then ... we'll have to make some decisions ... maybe I a just spoiled because introductions in the past were much easier ... but I am concerned about my girls! They deserve a peaceful home

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
First, it's only been two weeks. Secondly, there are things in your post that are INCREDIBLY positive. The eating together, no hiding or litter box issues by anyone, this below...

The adults usually just ignore the babies unless they get too close at which point they receive a hiss and maybe a swat ( babies always take the hint and go elsewhere

I can't emphasize enough how absolutely fantastic these interactions are, and nearly perfect considering that you're likely correct about the meds, at only two weeks in.

Try a little cat music, and in all seriousness, I personally wouldn't change anything at all, and absolutely wouldn't remotely consider rehoming those babies

 

[flybear]

Thank you for the encouragement ... I needed that! ... They all made me laugh this morning ... the adults managed to break out of their catio AND free the kittens out of the bathroom- which involved turning a doorknob and taking off bungee cords ( likely because they wanted to get to their favorite water bowl in the shower and eat the kitten food)... then they all lined up in front of the bedroom door to wait for me- to ambush me in the dark when I am still half asleep... - cats! ...

 

[Furballsmom]

then they all lined up in front of the bedroom door to wait for me- to ambush me in the dark when I am still half asleep...

oh my word - you, and they, made my day!!

 

[fionasmom]

I also think that you are doing wonderfully and agree that the nursing and meds might have put things off. But I see this as part of the socialization process and think that everyone will settle down and eventually coexist. Those kittens are adorable and their sweetness is evident.

I have had multiple cats for most of my adult life, usually about 7, and since I only rescue and most rescued cats tend to be feral or strays, it has always been a matter of someone needed a home and came to mine after a quick check in with the vet. After a regular socialization process everyone integrated into the house hold with no issues, including from the resident cats who really did not want the new cat to come in. The worst it ever came to, as I am sure that you have found out as well, is that one cat was not exactly the best friend of another cat, but if you have enough space they don't have to interact that much regardless.

Amazon Prime as cat music, for one. Jamie is passed out listening to it right now. It is more effective than regular music including easy listening or classical because it is entrained to cats' brainwaves.

 

[ArtNJ]

So the kittens are out free range and all we have is a little hissing or swatting when the kittens get close? Yeah, thats not so bad, 100% agree with the posters above as usual! Especially since you said you did a slow intro, meaning they probably haven't been free range for so long! How long have the kittens had the run of the place?

It gets harder as the resident cats age, and you can get problems with a new adoption even if you didn't have problems with the last adoption. However, your two accepted another kitten *very* recently, and these kittens sound chill and aren't bothering the big cats, which helps a lot, so I think your right, that there were some glitches here due to the medication or nursing. But even if that isn't the case, its just too soon to conclude that your definitely on the long slow road of gradual progression to toleration and affection is impossible.

The long slow road to toleration stinks, if you are on that. However, absent unusual stuff like the older cats not using the litter box, giving themselves hot spots, throwing up or other signs of extreme stress, then you have the routine version of this. Millions of us have dealt with the routine stress of the long slow road and I wouldn't consider giving a kitten up for that. The long slow road to toleration isn't fun for anyone, and its hard to see your bestie(s) stressed and not their usual selves, but its not normally so terrible either, and, worst case, it improves over the passing months rather than weeks.

Sometimes there is extreme anxiety in the big cats and drastic measures such as medication or even maybe giving the kitten up must be considered. And once in a blue moon, a big cats aggressive actions go so far beyond swatting, and they really look like they want to kill the kitten. Maybe they don't actually want that, adults never seen to actually hurt kittens, but rarely a big cat seems so crazy hostile with the charging and howling that folks just can't risk it. Personally, I'd need to have one of these two rare and nasty scenarios to think about giving a kitten up. That said, I guess folks that have never had a difficult intro often don't realize what can happen and is entailed with the long slow road, and if they human anxiety of their own, or an unusually tough living situation, then maybe its for the best if they give up a kitten. We get folks in that spot quite often, and kittens are easy to readopt out after all. Doesn't sound like you have any of these three situations though?

 

[danteshuman]

I vote keep. Some cats just don’t want to deal with kittens until they are bigger (?6? Months.) I think it is mainly about the little minions calming down. If your adult cats were seniors, I would advise against it. For now though I would lock the kittens up into a kitten safe room for up to half of the day, so they can have peaceful kitten free time. You could let them be together then give them an hour break. Try to distract the wee twerps with play when they are around the adult cats. Also expect the adult cats to bop them on the head when they get really annoying. That is normal!

Also 2 weeks is nothing in cat introduction time!

 

[di and bob]

It's perfectly normal, especially in females who instinctively are the manner teachers and limit setters, to swat, hiss, growl, and even pin an annoying kitten to the ground. These kittens need this. They are at the age when limits should be learned and your girls are doing it. As long as blood is not drawn everything is OK. Two weeks is a very short time in a cat's world as you know, your girls will take months to truly accept them, but they WILL in time. Really, the older girls are enjoying their new role, it is what they do. If they didn't they would be in hiding. The fact that they are close enough to discipline is actually a good sign, they are standing their ground and teaching the kittens the ropes of their household. Even if the kittens seek them out, they could and would get into a defensible place and leave and hide as soon as they could if they were so inclined. Face it, kittens are noisy, bothersome little whirlwinds of activity to an older cat. give your older girls some extra attention and make sure they have a safe spot to retreat to, preferrable higher up. My Chrissy spent months in a bed on top of the fridge. Remember too, when you bring them in to be spayed/neutered the vet smells will set your girls off again. It would be great if they were due for a checkup, vaccinations, etc, so they all smell the same. I try to bring all of mine in at the same time, one office visit charge, and no fights!

 

[flybear]

i just listened to the cat music ... very relaxing for humans too .. thank you ! Thank you all for the words of encouragement! Cats are very interesting when it comes to social structure. Usually my girls love kittens ... they are used to taking those pesky fosters under their wings ... however I do believe that first the meds and then diarrhea throws them off. These kittens are not as wild or bothersome as most of our previous fosters - not sure if this is Ragdoll specific but they seem just very laid back and gentle especially for kittens ... no scratches on me yet - they love tummy rubs and being brushed lol ... My fix for the after neuter vet smell is usually ... lots of cuddles with me after surgery to coat them with my scent, transport them with a blanket in their carrier that has the other cats smell on it and no direct contact for a day or two until they smell normal again with the option of playing pat- a paw under the door only ... they need some recovery time anyways. We are still fighting some GI. issues with these babies but they are bouncy and happy and are gaining weight but ... still no good poop ... In general things are going well and everyone seems to be ok. The 5 month old has become fast friends with the two babies and they play and the adults lay on their favorite spots and sleep quite peacefully not all that far from the babies. The only time the girls swat the babies is when they get too close or ... dare to interrupt me or the kids from petting them first ( perfectly understandable ... they are our queens and come first ;-) ). Yesterday baby Phoenix used the litter box and my adult girl just walked right into the same box - no aggression ... they both did their business and got out ... maybe Snowball needed to show baby the fine points of burying hahaha ... we have plenty of boxes everywhere lol ... The biggest indicator for me is playtime ... We played yesterday with wands- da bird and the likes ... and both adults joined in - more careful the usual as not to hurt the erratic babies but all 5 played in the same room- my girls are tigers the it comes to Dabird ... they are obsessed and can jump easily 5 ft into the air and catch the bird - Snowball is usually shy around strangers and the fact that she will play with babies around her is super positive !

 

[flybear]

and to those concerned about re-homing ...we must have had several dozen fosters - all of which found wonderful homes - I am very picky where my babies go and will keep them as long as it takes :-) ...But I have never re-homed a pet of mine! However ... when it comes to being a foster failure ... I absolutely only take in animals forever that are a good fit with all of our residents. If someone is unhappy or seems stressed it is a no go. There are many people out there who want to adopt kittens- my primary concern is always to keep a stress free and comfortable home for my adult cats as they are stuck with me for life rain or shine ;-)

 

[danteshuman]

About the ragdoll genes, yes it absolutely makes them more mellow! I swear Cami acts like she is sedated 24/7! She comes running every time we call her & just wants to hang out with her humans. She even lets my hyper niece hold her belly up! She has let my niece carry her belly up but we put a stop to that. She can only hold her with supervision. Just don’t let her get close to an edge because she rolls right off Her fur requires a pin brush. (She is only part but still cracks me up!) Her brothers also like being held belly up (it is the standard way we pick them up.) Her brother Jackie cracks me up because he sleeps belly up allllll the time! Plus Jackie has soft fur even with his siamese genes but no where near as soft as Cami! Expect your kittens to keep growing for 2.5 years.

Take tons of pictures and videos!

 

[flybear]

Love those pictures !!! I never had a Ragdoll but these babies are really something else ... that is why we are so bummed that our girls don't seem to share our enthusiasm ;-) ... My girls are siamese/ Manx mix with mostly siamese personalities ... intense, wicked intelligent and needy as well as ... energetic even as adults. Our American shorthair older kitten and all other kittens we ever had is very typical kitten ... busy busy, a tad crazy at times but the Ragdolls could be best described as laid back... unflappable... they sleep stretched out in the middle of the room on the floor - they can be carried belly up, medicated , turned upside down to wash their butts. I have to medicate them with some seriously yucky stuff and they never get mad, never hide, never seem to mind to have to wait for attention. They get attention ... they love it ... and if not ... they play quietly on their own ... it seems a bit weird to me ... they love to play but they are not scratchy or hyper when interrupted and back down immediately if another cat bops them on the head and they are so incredibly soft but easy to groom - all my cats love to be brushed but these babies will seriously go into bliss mode with a slicker brush !... We want to selfishly keep them- fingers crossed that our girls accept them into the family- we expect them to get BIG ... but then our girls are close to 15 lb - not exactly petite lol - we are used to quite an armful

 

[flybear]

This is one of the twin girls with the older baby ... her sister looks line her just with a stubby short tail

 

[flybear]

look at that ... antibiotics fixed kitten diarrhea and apparently kittens are not that bad anymore ... the all snuggled with our older kitten earlier on the cat tree and now with one of the girls ... woohoo- I cannot tell you how happy I am for the kittens !

 

[Furballsmom]