New Kitten Won’t Stop Fighting Old Cat

[4A50]

The subject of how to introduce a new cat into your household with existing cats comes up a lot, but my scenario might be a bit different - it’s not that they just don’t get along, it’s more like my new cat seems to have an unshakable violent obsession with my older one.

So, I adopted a “cat distribution system” male stray feral kitten around 2 months ago. He was ~6 months old. He spent several weeks living in our basement while we got his initial check-up, vaccines, neutering, etc. taken care of, then we blocked off a section of the upstairs connected to the basement so he could have more interaction with us and our other cat. We occasionally isolate my old cat to a room and let the new cat roam the house. We’ve also done the whole “swap bedding” thing that is often suggested to let them get used to each other’s scents, along with putting some of those calming diffusers in some key areas.

He’s very well-behaved overall, but since entering the house, our new kitten has totally had it out for our old cat. She's female, around 12 years old. When they see each other they lock eyes. Sometimes she’ll start quietly growling and/or hissing, though only a little. He usually just stares her down, sometimes meows a bit. The second she runs off, he darts after her. He used to charge and hit the pet gate between them, even. He’ll then spend 5 minutes meowing and looking for ways to escape his confinement so he can chase her down. A few times now he’s gotten out, and that has always ended up with him searching for her and attacking her. I can’t really say how bad the fights were or who got the worst of it, but I suspect my old cat didn’t fight back much and just tried to run away.

We’ve tried to more actively get them used to each other - we were feeding them treats in the same small room, gradually moving them closer to each other as they were both mostly distracted by eating. She’d be up on a desk while he was on the ground. We did that several times, and it seemed to work pretty well. When she’d finish hers, she’d usually just watch him for a bit, then eventually sit down, often even turning her back to him. When he finished his, however, he’d just lock eyes on her and try to figure out how to jump up after her, though we’d block his attempts. Unfortunately, I think this gave my old cat a bit of false comfort around him - the last time we did this, she decided to jump down to the floor and leave the room, which caused him to immediately stop eating and chase her down, leading to another big fight.

This isn’t my first time bringing a kitten in (including when I originally adopted my older cat) but usually they’re a bit younger and much less stuck in their feral ways, and thus have less of an issue with trying to fit into the established pecking order. Even if the older cat hates the kitten, it’s usually a smack or two and the older cat walks off, leaving the new kitten to give them a wider berth in the future. Perhaps if I just let them have it out, the situation would resolve itself, but I love my older cat to death, and don’t want to subject her to injury or even more stress than she’s already under here (which is a lot - she avoids going near his parts of the house now, and seems to be afraid of crossing his path at times, despite him being separated from her.) It's starting to feel kind of inevitable though.

I don’t really know what options I have left besides just sticking it out and hoping it gradually gets better until I can eventually let him have his run of the full house without him terrorizing my older cat. I’m trying not to be impatient, but the new cat needs surgery due to a preexisting leg injury, and for numerous reasons, mostly related to his rehab plan, I’ve been delaying it until he could be more settled in our house.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

 

[susanm9006]

It is a tough spot to be in. When he starts a fight, does it bite her or slap at her, and if so how hard are the slaps. And if she reciprocates does she bite or slap. It could be aggressive play or it could be aggression or aggression caused by fear. Maybe posting some video would help us give you some ideas.

I do think for you keeping them separated is a good idea. But if there was a way to do that with a gate where they could both see one another and get used to each others presence without fear or chasing it may help. When I did this to introduce my last two I stacked garden gates on top of one another to create a door barrier. Their issue, and possibly yours as well is that one cat became aggressive and attacked when she was fearful and the other ran out of fear. Being able to observe each other with the safety of the gate between did help.

 

[4A50]

Thanks for the reply!

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to witness the fights themselves most of the time. They've typically happened when I've not been in the same room, and both cats look VERY similar so by the time I catch the fight in progress it's hard to make out what is going on. Just a jumble of screeching, flailing fur. I'm guessing from some of the aftermath, he's typically biting her - after the first time there was some pulled out fur on the ground, and a couple of the times there were wet spots on her fur. I have no idea if she's standing up to him or not. She's very small and sweet-natured, and he's already started surpassing her in size and weight, but I do think he's always instigating it. He never acts even a little phased after the the fight is broken up and the the smoke clears.

Actually, the gate idea is exactly what I've been doing for quite a few weeks now. When I mentioned letting him have access to part of the upstairs, there are two doorways blocked by extra tall, barred dog fences. Unfortunately I don't think my old cat has ever completely trusted in them, and his few escape attempts recently seem to have shattered any trust she had that she's safe from him. She won't go near the gates unless he's nowhere to be seen, and then sometimes she'll walk up to them to look for him. One of the gates is next to our stairs, and she's VERY hesitant about going between floors now since she'd need to pass his area in the process. Sometimes I've even had to carry her. I swear, she almost seems traumatized despite none of the fights being THAT bad.

 

[Caspers Human]

Our Elliot is two years old and our Casper is twelve. They used to scuffle, at first, but it has quieted down. They still scuffle, on occasion, but it is mostly play, now.

The problem is that Elliot is younger and full of energy while Casper can often act like an old stick in the mud. Elliot often acts naive and thinks everybody wants to play with him and he gets butt-hurt when he tries to play but Casper doesn't. That's when things get out of hand. As I said, it doesn't happen so much, now that Elliot has learned our House Rules.

Casper will actually call Elliot out to play when he's in the mood but when he's not in the mood but Elliot acts like a little upstart, that's when things go south.

We did two things. First, we set limits on how rough the cats are allowed to play. Second, we encourage Casper to smack Elliot down when he doesn't want to play but Elliot doesn't listen.

For limits, we just go by noise level or the kind of noise. Cats will often hiss and yowl when they play. That's kinda' normal. We mostly let it go but, if there is more than the occasional growl, hiss or meow, we step in and put a stop to it. We go by the "Three Strikes" method. The first time we hear the noise get out of hand, we just call out, "Casper! Elliot! Play nice!" If it happens again, I walk into the room and use my "Dad Voice" and say, "Settle down!" If the fighting still doesn't stop, both cats get sent to their rooms and the doors get shut. They stay there for fifteen minutes to half an hour before we let them out, again.

Ninety percent of the time, all I have to do is call out and they'll break it off, immediately. I haven't had to go in and use my Dad voice in almost a year.

There has only been one or two times when the cats wouldn't stop fighting and I had to shortcut the "Three Strikes" and send them directly to their rooms.

The other thing is that we encourage Casper to put Elliot down when he wants to play but Casper doesn't. We actually take Casper's side, on occasion. When Casper gets fed up with Elliot's shenanigans, he'll put his paw up like he's going to swat Elliot. I'll say, "Go ahead, Casper! Bop him!" If Elliot doesn't back down, Casper will bop him right on the head! (It's actually kind of funny! )

After a year, it's gotten to the point where Elliot knows he's gone over the line. When he starts getting out of hand, I'll say, "Watch out or else Casper's going to bop you!" Elliot knows it's time to go do something else whenever I say that.

Just remember, cats have the mentality of a three-year old kid. You have to treat them almost the same way as you'd treat a toddler, only adjusted for cats. You have to set the rules and tell them how to behave. You need to draw your line and stand on it. When the cats/kids cross that line, they need to get an appropriate response, correction or punishment.

Just like kids, cats need to learn how to "play nice" and when they don't, they get separated. If they don't play nice, they don't get to be together, at all, until they learn.

If you've got to cats that actually fight all the time, that's different. If one cat pins the other down and won't let up, that's bad. If one cat corners the other and won't back of, that's a problem. If they bite and claw in a way that's actually hurting, you need to step in. If they instantly start fighting whenever they see each other, you need to keep them separated until they learn.

I have had cats that actually fight when they are first introduced but never has there been a time when they didn't learn to coexist and play by House Rules. It's really all about you being the Master of the House.

Most of the time, I don't have to do anything. Our cats moderate their own behaviors, just fine. Only rarely do I have to step in and be the "Benevolent Dictator."

 

[4A50]

Thanks! I've actually considered trying to let him interact with her freely, and stepping in the second it gets too aggressive, just as a measure of training him not to attack her, as well as getting them more comfortable with cohabitation. Two issues with that:

SO FAR, it always and very quickly gets too aggressive. I used the word "obsessed" in my original post - he beelines for her and almost immediately attacks her. Sometimes this could be more playful than I'm perceiving it, it's kind of hard to tell, but regardless, my old cat never perceives it as anything but an attack. I also suspect she'd likely attempt to run away when he approaches her, which would probably trigger a chase and fight.

The other issue is that once he sets his sights on her, it's total tunnel vision. He is not discouraged by attempts to distract him, yell at him, physically block him, etc. I suppose I could attempt to turn this up a notch, however, which might lead to a situation more like you're describing with your cats.

Honestly, my interpretation of this behavior is that he (the new cat) wants to be the dominant one in the household and is trying to make that very clear, if not outright treating the older cat as an intruder into his territory. He is always very casual about the whole thing - he doesn't get puffed up or growl, or otherwise seem too stressed out by these fights. It reminds me of another pair of cats I had many years ago - when I first introduced them, the older cat rejected him. Once he got a bit older and much bigger, he started treating her in a way I can only describe as "oppressive" - he would chase her away from her food and water and sometimes kick her off of laps and other places, seemingly just to make it clear that he was the one in control. That said, he didn't actually fight her - just some smacks. The rest of the time he coexisted with her just fine, and would occasionally even sit or sleep next to her (though always on his terms.) That could be what is happening here, but in a much more aggressive way, and with my older cat feeling much more terrorized by the whole thing.

 

[Caspers Human]

If the two cats are acting more aggressively than your house rules allow and ordinary measures don't work, you'll probably need to keep them separate until they learn to behave. Certainly, don't let them be together unsupervised but I think that goes without saying.

Put the new cat downstairs, again, and let the OG cat have the run of the house. Swap positions for a day, letting newbie cat out while OG has the downstairs. Once they settle in to the swapping routine, you can let them see each other through a gate or something. When you think they've gotten used to each other, you can let them be together on a trial basis under supervision then go from there, depending on how they behave. During all this, make it crystal clear how you want them to behave so that they learn your house rules and stick to them.

Something else you can try is feeding them together, either on opposite sides of a closed door or gate. You can also swap used bedding like you've already been doing.

Regardless of all the steps you take or the techniques you try, you must remember that, sometimes, introducing cats takes a lot of time.

When our little one, Elliot, came to live with us, he stayed in his own room, by himself, for a week before we even did any room swapping. After that, Casper went into his own room (the master bedroom) by himself while we let Elliot out. That carried on for about half a week then we put each cat into the other's room for the rest of the week. We fed them both on opposite sides of closed doors during that time, as well, but it was two weeks before we even let the two of them be together while supervised.

Next, it was a week of being allowed together, supervised, but only for a few hours at a stretch. They went back to their rooms while we went to sleep, while we went to work or ran errands at the store. When we were confident that the weren't scuffling during the day, we moved on to a week of letting them both out while we went to sleep. A week later, we did a trial run, letting them be alone in the house while we ran errands. After another week, we let them out while we went to work. By this time, an entire month had gone by.

The next couple of weeks, the cats were together, full time but we still kept an eye on them. This is when the story about Casper bopping Elliot happened. I did have to use my Dad voice a couple of times and the did get a couple of time-outs.

There was one time when I was downstairs when I heard, "Thumpity-thump! Yowl! Hiss!" coming from the upstairs bedroom. I marched right upstairs, walked into the room, put my hands on my hips, gave them my best, "Dad Look" and said, "Gentlemen!..."
Both cats immediately stopped scuffling, looked up at me with that guilty look that says, "We weren't doing anything..." then they both slinked out of the room. That was the last "big" fight that I can remember them having.

It's been almost a year and a half since we adopted Elliot and they both get along well, now. They still go at it, occasionally, but all I have to do is call out, "Play nice!" and they both quiet right down.

All together, it took about a month of being separated, another month of being together with supervision and, maybe another month of "Benevolent Dictatorship" on my part. The two cats get along well, now. When Elliot acts like a little upstart, Casper puts up his paw and threatens to bop him one then Elliot almost always backs down. They romp almost every evening and Casper will even meow to call Elliot out to play.

Bottom line: Introducing cats just takes time. Some cats take longer than others but, if you set the rules, right from the beginning, most cats eventually learn to coexist if not become fast friends.

Patience...

 

[Alldara]

I'm going to take a different turn here ans suggest you don't let them be unsupervised together at all. I successfully introduced a kitten to my 14/15 year old cat, and then a year later a second one, without flaring his FLUTD (stress disorder).

I worry about a fragile older cat and a young male cat as young males often don't know their own strength.

Also your older cat is hiding and avoiding his area meaning she's already stressed and scared. That's not a cat whose going to suddenly "put him in his place". She's not taken the dominant role. So she needs you to. She's 12, and she could have another 8 to 13 years left with you, or just a couple years. Her golden years should be low stress.

I would return to site swapping and barriered interactions (gate or something). Play play play with him to get him worn down before you feed together and then scoop him up right away and separate before they interact. Build her confidence with some gentle play also. Leave a bit of space at the bottom of the gate that let's them play with a wand toy with you or with one another's feet. Encourage positive and gentle interactions.

Once she will come near the gate again, then start with short ungated interactions that are supervised. Play with him first, and then feed them, maybe get a toy out to play with him (or if catnip makes him calm and rolly use that).

 

[Caspers Human]

I'm going to take a different turn here ans suggest you don't let them be unsupervised together at all.

Yes, I agree.

Though I said to keep them separate until they learn; unless they learn, don't let them be together without supervision.
They might need a pretty firm hand...the younger one, that is.

Yes, Elliot is one who doesn't seem to know his own strength. He's still young and he just doesn't seem to understand why every other cat doesn't want to play the way he does. That's why we often take Casper's side, so to speak. We let Casper get a little bit rougher with Elliot than we allow Elliot to play with Casper. When Elliot acts like a little ruffian, that's when we say, "Go ahead and bop him, Casper!"

You're probably going to have to keep the cats apart unless you can be with them and advocate for the OG when they are together.

 

[lissalouie]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I wonder if it might be better for both cats to be permanently separated--as in, finding a new home for the younger cat. I know how rough introductions can go, and I also know how difficult it can be to navigate the differences in energy and play styles and degrees of confidence. However, I also believe that not every cat is a good match for every other cat, and in the case where one cat is really suffering, it may be kinder for everyone involved to find a different solution.

I know that sort of 'obsessed' energy you speak of. I had that with a 1.5-year-old cat I had adopted after my senior boy passed away, leaving my 5-year-old boy all alone. The rescue didn't have a great grasp of his personality and also didn't disclose how ill he was; we did a slow introduction by default because of his sickness, but yet once he felt better he was utterly fixated on my resident boy. He was unable to stop himself when he saw him; he would charge, ignore all of my boy's cues to stop, and even figured out how to scale a six-foot baby gate and open doors to get to him. I am sure, to him, it was quite fun, but my other cat is a bit of a sensitive guy and ended up getting very ill from stress. I had to weigh what was best for both cats, and that was for my resident cat NOT to be terrorized in his own home and for the new cat to have a home he could be himself in without reservations. In the end, I had to return him, and the information I gave the shelter helped them find an amazing new home for him. I ended up adopting a new cat a few months later, and while she is far more playful than my resident boy, they get along beautifully because they're able to communicate with each other well.

You may be completely opposed to this idea and that's okay! I just wanted to bring it up, as I know there is a lot of pressure in cat-loving communities to ALWAYS make things work, no matter what, and I just wanted to offer alternative perspective. Sometimes it is better for both cats to live separate lives. And, honestly for the humans too--I loved that cat so much and really, really, REALLY wanted to make it work, but when I took a step back from my own feelings I realized all I could see were two miserable cats who just wanted something different. Again, not saying this is your situation at all, but I just knew I'd feel remiss not to say something.

 

[4A50]

I know that sort of 'obsessed' energy you speak of. I had that with a 1.5-year-old cat I had adopted after my senior boy passed away, leaving my 5-year-old boy all alone. The rescue didn't have a great grasp of his personality and also didn't disclose how ill he was; we did a slow introduction by default because of his sickness, but yet once he felt better he was utterly fixated on my resident boy. He was unable to stop himself when he saw him; he would charge, ignore all of my boy's cues to stop, and even figured out how to scale a six-foot baby gate and open doors to get to him. I am sure, to him, it was quite fun, but my other cat is a bit of a sensitive guy and ended up getting very ill from stress.

Yeah, this does sound quite similar to my situation. Whether my new cat thinks its fun or he's simply not all that stressed out as the dominant, in-control one, I don't know. Likewise, my older cat hasn't shown any signs of actual illness due to the stress, but her changes in behavior have been obvious (they wax and wane pretty radically depending on... I don't know, maybe just her mood) and even without major physical effects, he quality of life is certainly taking a hit.

You may be completely opposed to this idea and that's okay! I just wanted to bring it up, as I know there is a lot of pressure in cat-loving communities to ALWAYS make things work, no matter what, and I just wanted to offer alternative perspective. Sometimes it is better for both cats to live separate lives.

No, I actually appreciate this angle! I've had that in the back of my mind since the beginning. At this point, it is my last resort though - we've already bonded with him a lot, and seemingly him us. That said, it has to be on the table as it is too much of a logical solution to ignore. I don't want my older cat's senior years to be filled with stress and discomfort, nor do I want to keep him segregated from the rest of the house forever.

Right now I'm planning on taking Alldara's approach of just continuing what we're already doing, and taking it slowly and patiently. Perhaps he will mellow out as he gets more and more used to the idea of sharing space with my other cat (I'm already seeing signs of this, with him being less reactive to her presence - not staring so intently, etc.) and I figure with the idea of him being a clear threat to her eventually more or less removed, my older cat will be less stressed out around him. That is, of course, mostly wishful thinking. If I'm 4 or 5 more months down the road with no major improvement, I'll have to consider re-homing him, as heartbreaking as that would be.

 

[Alldara]

Yes, 4 4A50 its such a devastating choice we sometimes have to make. There's certainly times when I've suggested to rehome and we always provide support in this community for responsible rehoming or keeping.
It's about what's best for all the family members in the end, cats and people.

I just generally figure that if someone's posting here, it's because they want encouragement and support to try it all before it comes to that. I've had friends too where the first one they brought home just wasn't thr right fit. It happens even in the most loving and caring homes. Sometimes we are a bit misled and sometimes, the cat hides their true personality or sometimes people don't realize a certain cat personality won't mesh well in the current home.

But in your case you have a young cat wanting to play which just is too much for your older cat. (One reason people usually encourage younger ones adopted in similar energy level pairs.) But not unfixable, should you still be seeing improvements!