New Kitten, Ivy is not happy, PLEASE HELP?

[SlightlyIvy]

Okay I know I’m posting a lot but y’all will appreciate this. Pardon the bit of language below.

For context, my room is the hottest room in the house. Just gets the most sun. I’ve been enduring in order to keep everyone safe. But tonight I was standing perfectly still and sweating and let me tell you, I was suffering. So I crack my door, block it so Star can’t get out. I get air, she gets to play it’s a win.
Ivy strolls on by and sees her. Hisses. She’s not, if this makes any sense, like, furious. She doesn’t LIKE Star but she doesn’t SOUND like she’s out for blood. I go to comfort Ivy because she’s still letting me do that. And I look down and Star is RIGHT there. So ivy gets upset and I’m like okay cool play time is over. I put her crate on top of the basket I was using to hate her and go to get her food. I’m comforting Ivy again downstairs when WHO DO I SEE?
Star comes trotting merrily downstairs and walks RIGHT UP TO IVY. Picture please.
Me, an idiot, stupidly pointing at the kitten Ivy hasn’t noticed yet: Um, Um IVY, did you-
Ivy: turns. I can actually here the cat equivalent of “Bitch did you just?”
And she hisses.
she doesn’t attack so bonus?
anyway I snatched her up and hurried upstairs. Ivy as of now still refuses to eat even though I’m not trying to get her upstairs anymore. I did put her beside me on the sofa and she’s purring and kneading. I wanted to spend some time with her to see if it helped.

thing is, I like Star. She’s cuddly and sweet and I wish they got along. But I feel like my ineptitude really upsets Ivy.

 

[Sylvia Jones]

Your being to hard on yourself. Unintended sightings happen Im not so sure it’s a bad thing. They are both curious by this point. Keep taking it a step at a time You will be so glad that you stuck it out for their sake. They will have each other for a very long time in comparison to the adjustment time it takes. Odds are they will be great friends

 

[Elphaba09]

I agree with S Sylvia Jones . You are being too hard on yourself. You have had Star for less than a week, correct? It is far from unusual for cats to continue hissing at this point. It can take weeks or months until things calm down. You are doing all the right things. Just keep at it and calm down. Rushing things can make it harder for the cats.

As long as Ivy is drinking and eating some, I doubt there is a reason to worry for now.

 

[Hellenww]

Ivy: turns. I can actually here the cat equivalent of “Bitch did you just?”
And she hisses.
she doesn’t attack so bonus?

Ivy strolls on by and sees her. Hisses. She’s not, if this makes any sense, like, furious. She doesn’t LIKE Star but she doesn’t SOUND like she’s out for blood.

Both of these are good signs.Ivy is olderand will teach manners and limits and it's begun. Do you have a baby gate so Ivy can see Star at a safe distance and build some interest.

Is there meat that Ivy really likes? I've heard KFC useful when a cat is noy eating do to stress. Meat only baby food might get her interest. Make sure to read the label.

For early days your doing great.
Kittens will get into things but with 2 they tend to tire each other out. Here's an article that can help you prepare:

13 Practical Ways to Kitten-Proof Your Home - TheCatSite

Kitten-proof your home with our comprehensive guide, designed to turn your space into a safe haven for your new pet. Discover priceless community insights and practical tips to help welcome your feline friend, while creating an exploration-friendly and hazard-free environment.

thecatsite.com

 

[SlightlyIvy]

Both of these are good signs.Ivy is olderand will teach manners and limits and it's begun. Do you have a baby gate so Ivy can see Star at a safe distance and build some interest.

Is there meat that Ivy really likes? I've heard KFC useful when a cat is noy eating do to stress. Meat only baby food might get her interest. Make sure to read the label.

For early days your doing great.
Kittens will get into things but with 2 they tend to tire each other out. Here's an article that can help you prepare:

http://[URL]https://thecatsite.com/c/kitten-proofing-your-home-13-practical-tips/

[/URL]

I don’t have a baby gate, I do have a large dog kennel and I’ve been debating if I should try that out or just go and get a baby gate. I will try the KFC thing, since that might be a jackpot typetreat for ivy. She wont take normal treats at this point.
Also, since I put her bowl I. Her normal spot, she ate last night and this morning. So back to square one on that account.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[SlightlyIvy]

Hi guys,
Not much change on this end, though the vet said Ivy is a picture of health
She comes and investigates the door from time to time, if she wants me to come do something, but otherwise gives no interest in Star.
Star continues every effort to escape, though she has learned to jump to the windowsill now and so has “cat TV” as Jackson Galaxy calls it.
Can I ask some advice from those who’ve been here?

I have a dog kennel on lend from a friend, and it’s fairly big. Since Ivy doesn’t want to come upstairs (and won’t eat when she does) is it a feasible idea to put star in the kennel and feed them both ? Or move Star to the downstairs bathroom for feeding time?
Or should I just keep waiting? I’m moving ivys bowl a few inches every day, but it’ll take a Month or more to get it upstairs; I feel so bad leaving Star by herself for so long.
Don’t get me wrong we’re site switching and playing with them both so she’s not neglected she just gets so lonely.

 

[Elphaba09]

Hi guys,
Not much change on this end, though the vet said Ivy is a picture of health
She comes and investigates the door from time to time, if she wants me to come do something, but otherwise gives no interest in Star.
Star continues every effort to escape, though she has learned to jump to the windowsill now and so has “cat TV” as Jackson Galaxy calls it.
Can I ask some advice from those who’ve been here?

I have a dog kennel on lend from a friend, and it’s fairly big. Since Ivy doesn’t want to come upstairs (and won’t eat when she does) is it a feasible idea to put star in the kennel and feed them both ? Or move Star to the downstairs bathroom for feeding time?
Or should I just keep waiting? I’m moving ivys bowl a few inches every day, but it’ll take a Month or more to get it upstairs; I feel so bad leaving Star by herself for so long.
Don’t get me wrong we’re site switching and playing with them both so she’s not neglected she just gets so lonely.

I have successfully integrated 12 cats into my home. Their ages when found are next to their names. Estella(7m) and Astrid (7m) were first. They are sisters. Then Fennimore (4m) and Willow (4m), who are siblings. Next came Simon (9y-ish) and Tara (4y-ish). I have no idea how they became bonded, but they were found as strays, and Tara was caring for a very sick Simon. Freya (4m), Evangeline (8y-ish), and Silas (4w) all came a couple of years apart. About two weeks ago, we got the addition of three kittens Iroh (6w), Xanthippe (6w), and Cassian (9w). I have also fostered many in the past.

I can tell you that some have been easier than others. (Tara was particularly difficult because she stalked Astrid for a long time. I did click training with her and she stopped.) Most of the integrations took a long time, although some took days and others took weeks. Hissing happens.

Our cat Evangeline is deaf and fast things scare her, which means kittens scare her. Each time the kittens were ready to be set loose, she would hide for a few days. I would see her come out to eat, but she was always terrified that the kittens would get her. A couple of times a day, I would get her out from her hiding spots and sit her on my lap. I pet her while the kittens were in the room and at a safe distance. I had rubbed the kittens' cheeks on their jawline where their scent glands are and then rubbed the sent on the sides of Evangeline's nose. Afterward, I would put her on top of her cat tree so she was a safe distance from them in a place that she felt safe. Over a few days, the kittens started climbing the tree with her in it. She would jump down and run when she saw them. Eventually, she stopped jumping. It took the longest with Silas because he is extra wild. I think it was two months before she stopped jumping. (She is still uneasy around him because Silas is huge--At the last measuring, he was 38" from nose to tip of his tail--and fast.)

She is just to the stage of not jumping right away with the new babies.

You could just keep waiting. It does take time, and, since Ivy is having a hard time, it seems like you are in for a long adjustment period.

As for the kennel, it might work. I have used a pack-and-play with some of the kittens and it seems to help get the other cats used to them faster, but there were small kittens. The cats just walked up

Our one cat, Freya, does not eat with the other cats. She was a true feral when we found her and wild. While she did tame, she was still stand-off-ish with the other cats and most humans. She did not open up for four years. That is because she fell in love with Silas. When they became friends, she changed. She is currently forming a strong bond with our new kittens, especially Xanthippe. The one thing Freya has maintained is that she does not eat with the other cats. I have to feed her in a completely separate room on top of a cabinet.

Some introductions need to be started over. It is just how it is sometimes.

 

[SlightlyIvy]

I have successfully integrated 12 cats into my home. Their ages when found are next to their names. Estella(7m) and Astrid (7m) were first. They are sisters. Then Fennimore (4m) and Willow (4m), who are siblings. Next came Simon (9y-ish) and Tara (4y-ish). I have no idea how they became bonded, but they were found as strays, and Tara was caring for a very sick Simon. Freya (4m), Evangeline (8y-ish), and Silas (4w) all came a couple of years apart. About two weeks ago, we got the addition of three kittens Iroh (6w), Xanthippe (6w), and Cassian (9w). I have also fostered many in the past.

I can tell you that some have been easier than others. (Tara was particularly difficult because she stalked Astrid for a long time. I did click training with her and she stopped.) Most of the integrations took a long time, although some took days and others took weeks. Hissing happens.

Our cat Evangeline is deaf and fast things scare her, which means kittens scare her. Each time the kittens were ready to be set loose, she would hide for a few days. I would see her come out to eat, but she was always terrified that the kittens would get her. A couple of times a day, I would get her out from her hiding spots and sit her on my lap. I pet her while the kittens were in the room and at a safe distance. I had rubbed the kittens' cheeks on their jawline where their scent glands are and then rubbed the sent on the sides of Evangeline's nose. Afterward, I would put her on top of her cat tree so she was a safe distance from them in a place that she felt safe. Over a few days, the kittens started climbing the tree with her in it. She would jump down and run when she saw them. Eventually, she stopped jumping. It took the longest with Silas because he is extra wild. I think it was two months before she stopped jumping. (She is still uneasy around him because Silas is huge--At the last measuring, he was 38" from nose to tip of his tail--and fast.)

She is just to the stage of not jumping right away with the new babies.

You could just keep waiting. It does take time, and, since Ivy is having a hard time, it seems like you are in for a long adjustment period.

As for the kennel, it might work. I have used a pack-and-play with some of the kittens and it seems to help get the other cats used to them faster, but there were small kittens. The cats just walked up

Our one cat, Freya, does not eat with the other cats. She was a true feral when we found her and wild. While she did tame, she was still stand-off-ish with the other cats and most humans. She did not open up for four years. That is because she fell in love with Silas. When they became friends, she changed. She is currently forming a strong bond with our new kittens, especially Xanthippe. The one thing Freya has maintained is that she does not eat with the other cats. I have to feed her in a completely separate room on top of a cabinet.

Some introductions need to be started over. It is just how it is sometimes.

Thank you for the advice! Unfortunately for me AND for Star I might have to start over because Star has escaped three times in the past hour, and Ivy was at best displeased.
Star is now crying loudly and Ivy is still upset, so there’s that.

 

[Elphaba09]

Thank you for the advice! Unfortunately for me AND for Star I might have to start over because Star has escaped three times in the past hour, and Ivy was at best displeased.
Star is now crying loudly and Ivy is still upset, so there’s that.

You are welcome! Just remember, starting over is not a failure. Cats are just weirdos!

 

[pearl99]

How old is Star? I didn't see that (or missed it.)
It's been a week it sounds like, and that's not really much time in a cat's world.
Ivy's two years old so not very old, but still an adult and they take longer to adjust.
I've used the stacked baby gates when moving beyond the closed door stage, and put towels over (pinning with safety pins so they don't fall off) and gradually raising them for more visual, starting at just an inch or two of visibility at the bottom. Would Star climb the baby gates do you think? I have had to stack the gates to the top of the doorway and it's really inconvenient, but it's worked. Also I've done this kind of thing- easier to come and go from the new kitty room and pin towels to the gate:

How to Build a Free-Standing Cat, Dog, or Pet Gate Cheaply, Without Tools

Some people have put a screen door on the room door containing the new kitty and I think removed the solid door for the time being, but I sure am not experienced with that.

I would move Star to the downstairs bathroom for feeding time. And leave her in there for a period of time (with toys, bedding, litter box) to give Ivy some more closed door exposure. And give Ivy lots of love as she'll allow and play.
It can take time. I adopted Mooshoo at 12 weeks old with Waffles being 4 years old. It was at least two months before they were comfortably sharing space, and Waffles warmed up more and they would play and have a great time. Waffles was a stray 2 year old when I adopted him, who knows what his background was.
And yes hissing is normal, it's Ivy telling Star she's not comfortable and to back off. It's communication, and if Star doesn't mind it when they are together Ivy may go to growls and swats. Star does have to learn manners and Ivy will teach her!
Keep on truckin! It can get anxiety provoking and you think you've messed everything up and frustrating and maddening but man is it worth it!
I've done the Jackson Galaxy techniques also, and had to adjust for my situation, and they've been a great help.
It's always possible to take a step or so backward and reset. Lord knows I have!

 

[pearl99]

One thing I noticed you said upstairs and downstairs, and Ivy not really wanting to go upstairs, with whatever is the configuration of your home is it possible at some point to put a gate/barrier at the bottom of the stairs? Star could run around upstairs and up and down the stairs. And likely Star would spend time at the gate giving Ivy more exposure.
Just a thought?

 

[SlightlyIvy]

One thing I noticed you said upstairs and downstairs, and Ivy not really wanting to go upstairs, with whatever is the configuration of your home is it possible at some point to put a gate/barrier at the bottom of the stairs? Star could run around upstairs and up and down the stairs. And likely Star would spend time at the gate giving Ivy more exposure.
Just a thought?

that could work!
Star is 12 weeks old as of now; she’s a little escape artist and her expression is one that says quite clearly she’s never had a single thought and never will.
She’s escaped several times and ivy has been close by occasionally and will usually growl and hiss and stuff.
I put star in the downstairs bathroom to eat today and ivy only ate her food around 11:30, instead of 8 when I put it down. She’s not really food motivated. I have tried fried KFC but she was unmoved.
I’m at a loss as to how to get her to chill at this point.
I am so so tempted just to play with star in the living room and let Ivy watch- because Star is KILLING me with the crying. She’s just so lonely poor thing.

 

[Jem]

If Ivy is only hissing and growling a bit when confronting Star, that is perfectly fine, especially in this short amount of time.
Has Ivy ever attempted to attack Star? Have you ever tried to see what happens after the hiss and growl? Perhaps, you should try NOT to intervene and "save" Ivy from the confrontation...especially if nothing bad is happening....again hissing and growling...even a couple of swats is fine. I mention this because if you intervene, and intervene all stressed about the situation, you may be inadvertently causing Ivy to be more scared of Star. When you intervene, you are basically telling Ivy..."Yes, Star is scary..I will save you".
Star is going to get "yelled at" by Ivy...that is totally normal, and necessary as they are communicating their boundaries.
Star is going to get smacked by Ivy...that is totally normal, and again, necessary as Ivy will be teaching her, her boundaries. As a kitten, Star will probably ignore the initial hiss and growl "warning" of don't mess with me, then she'll get the swat, and hopefully learn her place in Ivy's life (until Ivy settles...which will happen)
They are doing well right now, so take a breath and let them set the tone, you can't rush this.

 

[SlightlyIvy]

Thank you for all your help everyone, it has been so nice to be getting advice From people who’ve been through it.
As of today, I’ve been putting Star downstairs in my laundry room during feeding time. Ivy is not food motivated, and she never has been. I don’t free feed her but I do leave her meals out until they are gone. I don’t take them away as soon as she’s done eating so she knows there will always be food.
this makes positive association difficult.
So I tried just letting Ivy observe Star in the living room after I fed them both. Ivy hissed and growled a bit but she DID watch when Star was playing with a toy. There was so much stuff to see and explore Ivy was not high on Stars list of things to see, but she did get there eventually.
Ivy let me put her up on the windowsill and pet her a bit, all while growling and hissing and she got vexed when Star climbed the cat tree. The only way I can describe it is Star wanted to explore and be friendly and Ivy wanted her to not be in a three foot radius of her. She only got swatted once but I got her out because I figured 15 minutes was enough exposure. At no point did she try to attack Star, she just made it clear this was her space and get out.
I put Star back in the laundry room where she cried the WHOLE time, and Ivy did prowl up to observe a bit and then she sprawled on the living room floor.
So I guess it didn’t go too too bad?

 

[pearl99]

Thank you for all your help everyone, it has been so nice to be getting advice From people who’ve been through it.
As of today, I’ve been putting Star downstairs in my laundry room during feeding time. Ivy is not food motivated, and she never has been. I don’t free feed her but I do leave her meals out until they are gone. I don’t take them away as soon as she’s done eating so she knows there will always be food.
this makes positive association difficult...
So I guess it didn’t go too too bad?

Can you have Ivy be somewhat hungry when bringing Star down? Such as feeding somewhat later or some less earlier? She may not eat in Star's presence much till she settles more. Happened with mine.

It doesn't sound bad! It sounds good. Ivy sprawled on the floor is great. Will Ivy distract at all around Star with a toy, or you talking to her or petting her? Even looking away for a few seconds? When that happens Ivy's looked away and nothing bad happened with Star so Ivy can learn she can look away safely when that happens repetitively.
I've read adult cats are hardwired to not badly injure a kitten so that helps in this. But they will sure teach kittens!

 

[Jem]

That all sounded very good. Ivy was just setting her boundaries...all very normal.
Next time you do this, try, instead of removing Ivy or Star from the situation. Try to redirect either Ivy or Star...probably Star as she will be more receptive...to a wand toy. When Ivy sees and experiences Star leaving her alone to go play, or eat or whatever...she will eventually associate all encounters with Star as nothing to be fearful of...they all end in her getting what she wants (being left alone)...without you intervening "in person".
It follows along the same line of thinking as pearl99 was mentioning, about eye contact and Ivy watching Star with "the stink eye". When Ivy no longer feels like she has to "watch her back", even for a moment, she's learning that Star is not a threat.
Positive reinforcement and associations don't only have to be about food either.
It can be Ivy sitting on your lap getting pet, while Star plays in the middle of the floor.
It can be (like I mentioned) distracting Star with something other than you physically getting in the middle (toy, food, etc..) so Star leaves her alone "on her own".
It can be setting up a safe space for Ivy to escape to if she feels the need to decompress, rather than you taking her away.
Try to let Ivy have a little more control of her environment, by giving her options.
For example, how many cat trees do you have in the living room? It would probably be good to have at least two, or at least two or more "high up places" so that Ivy can stand guard from a distance.

 

[SlightlyIvy]

So, to answer Jem and pearl99:

No Iwont make Ivy hungry. I’m too scared she just won’t eat period if I try toc muck with her food anymore.


i only have one cat tree in the living room as it’s really only big enough for the one. It’s ivys but star partakes. Im planning to move that one upstairs and get a new one for the living room.

I can’t keepIvy in my lap as she is in no way a lap cat. The most I can do is bodily lift her onto the windowsill or cat tree just to get her out of the way. She is a bush dweller, to use Jackson Galaxys terminology. I try to pet her whenever I can, my roommate is afraid to when she growls but I trust my girl. She’s never hurt me on purpose, and I think she trusts me. so I try to reinforce that when she’s death glaring atStar.

The weirdest thing happened tonight.
my roommate plays with Star for 30 minutes, and then I do the same, before her last feeding. It really helps Star settle at night. We play with her upstairs usually but tonight Ivycame up to investigate. So I let her watch, (and hiss). Star was more interestedin the toy than Ivy and eventually took her merry self downstairs in spite of my best efforts to catch her. Ivy followed. I Proceeded to play with Star in plain view and Ivy SPRAWLED out. We tried to distract ivy with a different toy but Star wanted to play with both and that backfired a bit. Ivy hissed a lot but she let me pet her andlove on her. She just watched Star play and hissed whenever she got too close.
I put star in the laundry room to eat and then played with Ivy one on one. It worked! Sort of. She won’t eat and she might not. I’m hoping if I let star out during the evening feedings, Ivy will eat in the morning.
I didn’t mean for this to happen, it wasn’t planned, but things seem to be going well? I’m chilling on the couch with Ivy now, just to comfort her in case she’s upset. She’s finally used her litter box thank the good Lord; so I think she’s still okay.

 

[SlightlyIvy]

I am posting a lot and my apologies but guess who just trotted into my room when I was going to get water and was then chased around by a kitten half her size?
If you answered Ivy you are correct. It was sad AND funny. I hate to kick her out but I can’t let them togethet unsupervised yet.
Update: she left on her own and now Star is sad.

 

[pearl99]

"No Iwont make Ivy hungry. I’m too scared she just won’t eat period if I try toc muck with her food anymore."- Sounds good. Have to do what's best. Just thinking of possibilities. It's best to keep routines as much the same as possible.


"i only have one cat tree in the living room as it’s really only big enough for the one. It’s ivys but star partakes. Im planning to move that one upstairs and get a new one for the living room." Good plan. Cat trees are great for leaving scent on too even if they don't go up it.

"I can’t keepIvy in my lap as she is in no way a lap cat. The most I can do is bodily lift her onto the windowsill or cat tree just to get her out of the way. She is a bush dweller, to use Jackson Galaxys terminology." My Waffles is a bush dweller too. A "low cat." And he's only in my lap if he wants, I can't pick him up for anything.

"The weirdest thing happened tonight.
my roommate plays with Star for 30 minutes, and then I do the same, before her last feeding. It really helps Star settle at night. We play with her upstairs usually but tonight Ivycame up to investigate. So I let her watch, (and hiss). Star was more interestedin the toy than Ivy and eventually took her merry self downstairs in spite of my best efforts to catch her. Ivy followed. I Proceeded to play with Star in plain view and Ivy SPRAWLED out." Ivy came up on her own? Very good. And downstairs while Star playing Ivy watched? Ivy wouldn't sprawl if she felt threatened, so another very good thing. She didn't go after Star and watched. Triple jack-pot. Sounds like something unplanned went okay.

"I’m chilling on the couch with Ivy now, just to comfort her in case she’s upset. She’s finally used her litter box thank the good Lord; so I think she’s still okay." Yay!

When I got my kitten Mooshoo 2 years ago I only had Waffles, and Moo did not give up on trying to get Waffles to play. She was sad when he wouldn't. It was the cutest thing. Eventually Waffles let his "careful young whippersnapper" guard down and they are good together.
Ivy's doing well!! Nope no unsupervised for awhile. Keep up the good work!

 

[Furballsmom]

Star baby needs playtime with you until Darling Ivy becomes more comfortable, but as mentioned you're doing a terrific job !