New Cat Bullying With Complicating Factors...

[ans5181]

So I have a 15 year old cat named Sully and a 17 year old cat named Lucy (both male, long story , both neutered). One morning, two little black cats, both female, show up on my doorstep. My guess is that they are sisters given that they looked incredibly similar and were together from the start. I ended up taking them in with the intent to adopt them out. I tried every resource that I could think of, but it was kitten season and no one would take them or told me that they would be put to sleep. Of course I couldn't stand that idea, so into the bathroom they went after contacting a cat rescue that told me they would help me find homes for them if I fostered them in my home. They are sweet and funny girls and would be surprised if they were 3 months old when they came to me. About a month later, I was teasing one about what a little fatty she was turning into when it suddenly dawned on me that she was NOT FAT....you can guess what happened next.

So fast forward several months. The two sisters, now named Amber and Jade, are permanent residents. After everything that we have been through together, I can't bear to part with them, they have enriched my life so much. Jade also has 3 kittens, 8 weeks old this Thursday. They are sweet, hilarious, and insane. They are scaling the living room as I type. Also during the last months, Lucy fell ill, and after lots of tests and heartache, I had to send him where the good kitties go at 17 years old. I miss him immensely, he was my first baby as an adult. However, the full house is a welcome distraction, and I marvel at how life works in mysterious ways by sending me these sweet girls when I didn't know I needed them. Sorry for all the details and narration, but it kind of builds to the cumulative problem.

So Amber, Jade, and her kittens lived exclusively in the bathroom up until the kittens were 5+ weeks old. Lucy and Sully knew they were there, I know Amber and Jade knew they were there, so there was a very long separation period. When the kittens were getting bigger and more rambunctious, I would let them out for short periods of time with mom and auntie. Amber had been fixed during this time, but Jade has not yet because she has been pregnant and now nursing, and I did not want to separate her from her babies. Lucy had zero interest in any of them, and they had zero interest in him. Lucy was a zero cares given kind of cat. The strong silent type. Sully, on the other hand, is a true scaredy cat, and has always been afraid of everything. People, cats, noises, his own shadow....you get the idea. Well, Jade absolutely gunned for Sully. Would beeline for him right out of the bathroom, chase him down and try to attack him or at least bat at him, as he is about four times her size. I would be surpised if she is over 4 pounds. She has gotten him in the nose a time or two, even when I was right there, she is very quick and quiet. It has been a couple of weeks since I started letting them all out, and now they are out full time. Jade has stopped chasing Sully, but he runs just at the sight of her. If I am around, he will skulk over and sit behind my head, but other than that, he does not move except to his bed and under the coffee table in the corner, and this is how he has been living. I have set up food and water dishes by his bed and moved his litter box closer because he won't venture out to them. Even though Jade is not chasing him, she does eyeball him. She will come close to him and just fixate on him, and I know this must be a dominant thing. I end up chasing her off because I want to stop the behavior. The kittens have no fear and are not afraid of Sully, but he is afraid of them. Go figure. Amber and Sully growl a bit when they come close, but there is no aggression there.

So I feel bad. In a matter of weeks, Sully lost a lifelong companion and has been bombarded with a whole cat colony. He still eats, drinks, uses the litter box, and likes attention from me, but he lives in fear. While I am glad he is not aggressive to the brood (he is a BIG cat), I wish that he would take back his house! I had hoped the long separation time in the beginning where they could all smell each other would help. It pains me to see this. I am in the process of getting vouchers from the rescue to get Jade and the kittens fixed. I have homes for two out of the three kittens, but they are staying with mama until 12 weeks. I have two bedrooms, but they can't be in there because they are carpeted and I am quite allergic, and while I can get used to them in general, them sleeping with me or getting near my face or head on a regular basis makes me a mess, and I have a roommate in the second room. I can contain them in the bathroom for a little bit, but there are so many of them, that is not a plausible long term solution. It really is Jade that is the issue, but I feel like I can't separate her from the others because she is still nursing. What can I do to help Sully? I don't know if this is a protective mama/unfixed cat issue (she is a wonderful and attentive mother, and she and her sister love on each other all the time, so I know its not an aggression towards all other cats), or if she is just a bully! Help! And thanks for all of you that hung in until the end of this very long post

 

[ArtNJ]

I feel like Sully would be happier in his own room until the kittens are gone. I know the momma cat is the bigger problem at this instant, but I feel like with a slow introduction that could get better once the kittens are gone. But kittens are kittens, and a shy 15 year old is never going to like being jumped on by kittens, which seems likely to happen more and more now that the kittens are getting into the more adventurous stage of kittenhood. There might things that will help -- adding a big ole cat tree or two for example -- but I just don't think you have much chance for progress until the kittens are gone.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. What do you think Sully would think of you moving his belongings to your bedroom? I don't mean lock him in there, just let it be his own little retreat - until the kittens are gone AND Jade is spayed?

 

[ans5181]

I feel like Sully would be happier in his own room until the kittens are gone. I know the momma cat is the bigger problem at this instant, but I feel like with a slow introduction that could get better once the kittens are gone. But kittens are kittens, and a shy 15 year old is never going to like being jumped on by kittens, which seems likely to happen more and more now that the kittens are getting into the more adventurous stage of kittenhood. There might things that will help -- adding a big ole cat tree or two for example -- but I just don't think you have much chance for progress until the kittens are gone.

I think that you are probably right on this, in terms of not being able to make much progress until the kittens are gone. I think that I will try to rotate them out of rooms, to let everyone explore sometimes and be confined at other times. My roommate has also said that Sully can come in her room at night (I am too allergic to have him in bed with me), so that could also be part of the solution.

 

[ans5181]

Hi. What do you think Sully would think of you moving his belongings to your bedroom? I don't mean lock him in there, just let it be his own little retreat - until the kittens are gone AND Jade is spayed?

I think that it would have to be the bathroom or my roommate's bedroom, as the bedrooms are carpeted and I am too allergic to have Sully in my bedroom all the time, as much as we both would love it. It's definitely a good suggestion, Sully has always liked to hide anyway...

 

[rubysmama]

ans5181 : hello and welcome to TCS. Condolences on the loss of Lucy. We have a Crossing the Bridge forum if you feel up to posting a tribute to him. RIP sweet boy.

About the current cat interactions, I agree with the others that things won't improve until Jade is spayed and the kittens have been adopted to their new homes. Then you can start over with the cat introductions.

Here's some TCS articles on the topic that may be helpful:
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Introducing Cats To Cats

 

[Notacrazycatlady]

When Leo first came into my apartment at 3 months of age, I was cat-sitting my niece's cat, Riddle. He's a neurotic mess--scared of everything. He was staying with me because he does't do well with moving and the moving boxes and packing when she was moving was causing a lot of stress behaviors. I had a lot of luck with the calming collars. I put one on Riddle and within a week of wearing the collar, I saw him initiate play with Leo where before he'd hiss and hide whenever Leo tried to play with him. It was hesitant at first but he slowly came out of his shell. He actually adjusted to Leo much quicker than he did to Angus when he first arrived, although I think part of his adjustment to Leo was that Angus and Leo were playing together and he was already comfortable with Angus so that provided a bridge. I do think that the collar calmed some of his fear. He was just visibly more relaxed within a couple of days with the collar on.

Riddle was only about 4 years old, so the age difference wasn't as pronounced, but a calming collar or even a diffuser might give Sully some confidence to assert himself a bit. It worked with Riddle in my situation at any rate.

 

[ans5181]

ans5181 : hello and welcome to TCS. Condolences on the loss of Lucy. We have a Crossing the Bridge forum if you feel up to posting a tribute to him. RIP sweet boy.

About the current cat interactions, I agree with the others that things won't improve until Jade is spayed and the kittens have been adopted to their new homes. Then you can start over with the cat introductions.

Here's some TCS articles on the topic that may be helpful:
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Introducing Cats To Cats

Thank you for the condolences and the articles! I will make sure and read all of them so I can make a better reintroduction!

 

[ans5181]

When Leo first came into my apartment at 3 months of age, I was cat-sitting my niece's cat, Riddle. He's a neurotic mess--scared of everything. He was staying with me because he does't do well with moving and the moving boxes and packing when she was moving was causing a lot of stress behaviors. I had a lot of luck with the calming collars. I put one on Riddle and within a week of wearing the collar, I saw him initiate play with Leo where before he'd hiss and hide whenever Leo tried to play with him. It was hesitant at first but he slowly came out of his shell. He actually adjusted to Leo much quicker than he did to Angus when he first arrived, although I think part of his adjustment to Leo was that Angus and Leo were playing together and he was already comfortable with Angus so that provided a bridge. I do think that the collar calmed some of his fear. He was just visibly more relaxed within a couple of days with the collar on.

Riddle was only about 4 years old, so the age difference wasn't as pronounced, but a calming collar or even a diffuser might give Sully some confidence to assert himself a bit. It worked with Riddle in my situation at any rate.

I hadn't even thought about a calming collar, that is a great idea! Would you put them on both Sully and Jade?

 

[ans5181]

UPDATE! So I moved Sully to my roommate's room. He has his bed and everything in there. The first night, I thought maybe this was going to be a fail because he hollered the WHOLE NIGHT and my roommate finally let him out because he was so adamant! He returned back to his bed in the corner and stayed there. Jade continued to mess with him of course...so the next night, we decided to try it again and this time, I went and spent some time in there with my roommate and Sully came out and wanted attention from me and rubbed and purred....not a peep from him since!!! He seems happy in there and I visited him again this morning and he was out and about, he cuddled me and my roommate said that he let her pet him too. No more trying to get out!!!! I'm so excited, I hope this lasts.

So now...do I try the calming collars and let him out for periods of time, or should I just let sleeping cats lie until the kittens are gone? I am just happy he's not getting messed with now.

 

[Notacrazycatlady]

UPDATE! So I moved Sully to my roommate's room. He has his bed and everything in there. The first night, I thought maybe this was going to be a fail because he hollered the WHOLE NIGHT and my roommate finally let him out because he was so adamant! He returned back to his bed in the corner and stayed there. Jade continued to mess with him of course...so the next night, we decided to try it again and this time, I went and spent some time in there with my roommate and Sully came out and wanted attention from me and rubbed and purred....not a peep from him since!!! He seems happy in there and I visited him again this morning and he was out and about, he cuddled me and my roommate said that he let her pet him too. No more trying to get out!!!! I'm so excited, I hope this lasts.

So now...do I try the calming collars and let him out for periods of time, or should I just let sleeping cats lie until the kittens are gone? I am just happy he's not getting messed with now.

If you are thinking of doing collars for both, it might be more cost effective to use a diffuser. I only used a collar because it was cheaper than the diffuser and I wasn't sure it would have any effect.

 

[rubysmama]

So now...do I try the calming collars and let him out for periods of time, or should I just let sleeping cats lie until the kittens are gone? I am just happy he's not getting messed with now.

Can you let him out without him running into the other cats? How long before the kittens get adopted?

 

[ans5181]

I can't unless I lock up the other ones, if that's what you mean. The house is pretty open and not large. The kittens have 4 weeks tomorrow before they leave (at 12 weeks). I am still trying to find a home for the little girl

 

[rubysmama]

If he seems restless and wants out of the room, maybe do that - lock the others up. The less interaction they have, is probably best. Then start the introductions over once Jade is spayed, and the kittens (that are leaving) are gone. Jade will likely go into heat again soon, so ensure she doesn't get outside, as cats can get pregnant while still nursing.

 

[ans5181]

Hey everybody, so I wanted to give another update and get some opinions from y'all about how things are going. Kittens are now 12 weeks old, one went to his forever home last weekend, and another is going to his forever home this upcoming weekend. I am keeping the third kitten, a little girl, along with Jade and Amber, because I am an idiot and a giant sucker lol. So here's what's happening now:

Sully has been staying in my roommate's room. At some point, he started trying to get out, so my roommate started leaving the door open because she felt bad. But all Sully would do was go to his bed in the corner of the living room and hide. So he went back into my roommate's room, but he is staying there by choice-- we have been leaving the door open so he can hear and smell what's going on the the house and hopefully be a part of it, but he will not leave that room. I have tried and tried to tempt him, but he will not go past the threshold. Jade (mom) is not protective now that her babies are older and she was supposed to be fixed last week, but guess who is in heat!! So right now she is super annoying to everyone, as you can imagine. That being said, she seems to only be interested in Sully in a curious and not aggressive way. She will walk right up to him and touch her nose to his. Sometimes nothing comes of this, and sometimes somebody swats someone and fusses. No blood drawn, but I hear Sully getting upset with her throughout the day. He will come out and sit in the bedroom, or under the bed, and the other cats come in that room and hang around (because of course, it is new and interesting). If anyone gets to close and tries to interact, he is upset. But none of the others are upser anymore, just curious. I hear very mild growls and hisses, but nothing of real concern. They do not seem put off at all by his upset. Also, if I go in the room and sit on the floor, Sully comes to me for attention regardless of where they other cats are and what they are doing
I seem to give him confidence. So am I on the right track here? Should i just let things hang and let them find their rhythm? Am I traumatizing and ruining my senior cat???? Am I royally screwing this up?? Help me!! I am afraid Sully is never gonna come out of that room!!

 

[rubysmama]

I've never had more than 1 cat at a time, so I've no experience with multi-cat households. Hopefully other members will see this update and reply.

But in my inexperienced opinion, it doesn't sound too bad. I just skimmed your above posts to refresh myself of the situation, and you mentioned Sully always liked to hide. And he is 17 years old, so it's seems normal that he'd enjoy the quiet of his own space.

Sully is eating and sleeping and using the litter box normally, right? If so, maybe don't worry, as long as he seems happy. And, of course, continue spending time with him.

You could, of course, try putting the other cats in a room, and seeing if Sully would follow you out into the rest of the apartment. But again, a contented cat, who keeps to himself, is a much better scenario than a stressed one who develops litter box issues, or other behavioural issues.

 

[Kflowers]

It sounds as though Jade is interested in Sully in the making kittens way. Sully doesn't trust her. Who would. I saw the same thing happen with my dog (was fixed late in life) threw himself on another dog then discovered she was a lady. He never understood why she NEVER wanted anything to do with him.

I don't think it'll be that dire with Jade and Sully since they live together. That makes a difference. Leave Sully to his getting away from her. I've never heard of a amorous lady cat attacking the male of her choice, just doing the floor dances for him. This may actually be the best thing to get them together.

When she goes out of heat and goes to the vet, Sully will have some time to think. When she returns with the dreaded vet smell on her and they are separated until the smell goes away, he will continue to think. Then when they are together again, he may well figure, "right, she belongs here. So everything's good now."

AND I think it's wonderful you're keeping one of the kittens. It's heartbreaking to hear the mothers cry and watch them search for the kittens when they are given away even to the best of homes.

 

[nunnc84]

Hey everybody, so I wanted to give another update and get some opinions from y'all about how things are going. Kittens are now 12 weeks old, one went to his forever home last weekend, and another is going to his forever home this upcoming weekend. I am keeping the third kitten, a little girl, along with Jade and Amber, because I am an idiot and a giant sucker lol. So here's what's happening now:

Sully has been staying in my roommate's room. At some point, he started trying to get out, so my roommate started leaving the door open because she felt bad. But all Sully would do was go to his bed in the corner of the living room and hide. So he went back into my roommate's room, but he is staying there by choice-- we have been leaving the door open so he can hear and smell what's going on the the house and hopefully be a part of it, but he will not leave that room. I have tried and tried to tempt him, but he will not go past the threshold. Jade (mom) is not protective now that her babies are older and she was supposed to be fixed last week, but guess who is in heat!! So right now she is super annoying to everyone, as you can imagine. That being said, she seems to only be interested in Sully in a curious and not aggressive way. She will walk right up to him and touch her nose to his. Sometimes nothing comes of this, and sometimes somebody swats someone and fusses. No blood drawn, but I hear Sully getting upset with her throughout the day. He will come out and sit in the bedroom, or under the bed, and the other cats come in that room and hang around (because of course, it is new and interesting). If anyone gets to close and tries to interact, he is upset. But none of the others are upser anymore, just curious. I hear very mild growls and hisses, but nothing of real concern. They do not seem put off at all by his upset. Also, if I go in the room and sit on the floor, Sully comes to me for attention regardless of where they other cats are and what they are doing
I seem to give him confidence. So am I on the right track here? Should i just let things hang and let them find their rhythm? Am I traumatizing and ruining my senior cat???? Am I royally screwing this up?? Help me!! I am afraid Sully is never gonna come out of that room!!

I too have limited multicat household experience. I have been watching JacksonGalaxy a lot on youtube Jackson Galaxy and on his website : HEALTH & BEHAVIOR AIDS

I bought the trio set, peacemaker, bully, and self esteem. My resident kitty is being bullied by my new kitty. So I'm excited to use the self esteem herbs on my resident kitty. Check out Jackson Galaxy blog Tips & Tricks | Jackson Galaxy Store

He is amazing! So, I have had to calm myself a lot during this process because I am super over protective of resident kitty. A lot of tea, music, stress relief oils, and a little cat nip.

Best of luck. I have the same issues. I will be watching the thread to glean good advice.

 

[ans5181]

I've never had more than 1 cat at a time, so I've no experience with multi-cat households. Hopefully other members will see this update and reply.

But in my inexperienced opinion, it doesn't sound too bad. I just skimmed your above posts to refresh myself of the situation, and you mentioned Sully always liked to hide. And he is 17 years old, so it's seems normal that he'd enjoy the quiet of his own space.

Sully is eating and sleeping and using the litter box normally, right? If so, maybe don't worry, as long as he seems happy. And, of course, continue spending time with him.

You could, of course, try putting the other cats in a room, and seeing if Sully would follow you out into the rest of the apartment. But again, a contented cat, who keeps to himself, is a much better scenario than a stressed one who develops litter box issues, or other behavioural issues.

He is acting totally normal other than not leaving the room. Eating, drinking, sleeping, using the litter box! I have tried putting the cats in another room but he will not be convinced at present! Thank you for your opinion, I am probably being a worried parent but I don't want him to feel pushed out of his own home!

 

[ans5181]

It sounds as though Jade is interested in Sully in the making kittens way. Sully doesn't trust her. Who would. I saw the same thing happen with my dog (was fixed late in life) threw himself on another dog then discovered she was a lady. He never understood why she NEVER wanted anything to do with him.

I don't think it'll be that dire with Jade and Sully since they live together. That makes a difference. Leave Sully to his getting away from her. I've never heard of a amorous lady cat attacking the male of her choice, just doing the floor dances for him. This may actually be the best thing to get them together.

When she goes out of heat and goes to the vet, Sully will have some time to think. When she returns with the dreaded vet smell on her and they are separated until the smell goes away, he will continue to think. Then when they are together again, he may well figure, "right, she belongs here. So everything's good now."

AND I think it's wonderful you're keeping one of the kittens. It's heartbreaking to hear the mothers cry and watch them search for the kittens when they are given away even to the best of homes.

Lmao I think Jade is interested in just about everyone and everything in the kitten making way! And I think you are right, even though Sully is pissed at her, it's better than the scared only that he seemed to be before! I'm hoping the fixing still kinda seal the deal, so to speak. We will see. Omg if I never see a floor dance or hear her trill and yowl again, it will be too soon. Love her, but she is obnoxious!

Keeping the kitten... God it was not my intention, but this little girl has stolen my heart. She is so sweet and gentle and friendly, and the other two kittens are going to friends. I couldn't stand the idea of giving her to a stranger. I cried more than once when I took Sal to his new home, I felt like I was tearing a family apart. I hated it!! So now we are 4 cats strong...I must be crazy! I will post some pics