Neverending dental health problems...

rosegold

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I’m becoming convinced that I’ve been cursed by some evil god of feline dental health... I’ve only been a cat owner since 2018, but each of my cats has had unusually severe teeth issues. I’ve spent over $3k in veterinary dental surgeries/treatments alone over the past two years.

I’ve been brushing Chilli’s teeth daily as recommended by my vet since her last scaling in March. Overall her teeth are looking good and the brushing definitely helps. However, last week I noticed a sudden red spot on her tooth (not gum) that bled profusely when I brushed her teeth. It was confirmed today to be FORL and the tooth needs to be extracted. She has an appointment next weekend for the extraction, and we are hoping that’s the only affected tooth, but won’t know until the x-rays before the surgery... could be several teeth. :(

Meanwhile, Clove desperately needs a scaling, too, despite toothbrushing. She isn’t even two years old, and already had a major cleaning during her spay at around 8 months old for some kind of severe juvenile gingivitis (?) that she developed. So I’ve just scheduled her scaling to be done the same day. It seemed practical to just “kill two birds with one stone” but now I’m thinking that I’ll be an absolute mess next Saturday with both of my babies going under anesthesia :bawling:

Those who know me will remember that my kitty Chai also had severe stomatitis which eventually required a full mouth extraction—which was successful, but she developed and passed away from FIP only a few weeks afterwards (probably caused by a combination of poor immune system and stress from the surgery). I’m trying not to catastrophize here, but I’m so worried that something will go wrong with Chilli’s and Clove’s procedures this weekend. Especially for Chilli - if her FORLs is recurring, I dread the idea of having to put her under for teeth extractions every year. She is such a sensitive and easily stressed cat and even the short car rides back and forth are hell for her.

I guess I’m looking for reassurance/support/a place to rant more than advice. This has just been a major source of stress for me. :sigh:
 

di and bob

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Some vets are a little overzealous on teeth cleaning/extractions I have found, one vet wanted to clean and the next one said the teeth are fine, and the cat has had no problems since then. I've found that in my own dentists too. You might want to add an enzyme water additive to their water it supposedly helps with plaque buildup etc., I have used Oxyfresh and Oratene (on Amazon) and noticed my cat's teeth have been whiter and the vet has not found any problems. It has worked for my cats. My Dutch had horribly yellow teeth right before I brought him into the household, and now they are definitely whiter. Just make sure it is odorless. I have used it for over ten years now and not one cleaning when used with six cats. Although I did have one break a tooth and needed it extracted, which the vet found on a routine checkup. You might want to find another vet or get a second opinion.
 
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rosegold

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Some vets are a little overzealous on teeth cleaning/extractions I have found, one vet wanted to clean and the next one said the teeth are fine, and the cat has had no problems since then. I've found that in my own dentists too. You might want to add an enzyme water additive to their water it supposedly helps with plaque buildup etc., I have used Oxyfresh and Oratene (on Amazon) and noticed my cat's teeth have been whiter and the vet has not found any problems. It has worked for my cats. My Dutch had horribly yellow teeth right before I brought him into the household, and now they are definitely whiter. Just make sure it is odorless. I have used it for over ten years now and not one cleaning when used with six cats. Although I did have one break a tooth and needed it extracted, which the vet found on a routine checkup. You might want to find another vet or get a second opinion.
Yeah, I‘m hoping that I can be even more proactive with brushing (maybe even twice a day) to postpone the cleanings after these ones. Maybe I will look into the water additive too. But in my girls’ case, their teeth aren’t just yellow but really seriously affected even to my untrained eye—thick plaque buildup and sore red bleeding gums. But they show noticeable improvement in quality of life after a cleaning. After Chai’s stomatitis I won’t take any chances.... and as far as I can tell FORL has no known cause, treatment, or prevention other than extraction. I trust my vet though, and he specializes in feline dentistry. I know these are really routine procedures for him and not particularly risky. I just worry. :(
 

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I feel for you.. I really do...
I dealt with my own dental issues, for my entire life... then, I adopted Artie, who had dental problems also... had 4 teeth removed... sigh..But he was 8 years old, then.

Now, with Geoffrey, 4-5 years old.. adopted in Nov 2018, he has FORLS!! omg... I was completely upset when I heard this... Not covered by insurance because a preexisting condition.. I was told he will have to undergo a dental, very or every other year, to expect more estracttions during each dental. Eventually, he will have his all his teeth removed... sigh..

And to get him into a Specialist Dentist~ well, the waiting list is at least 6 months long!!
 

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When my cat went for her well check at 4 years the vet told me she needed a cleaning. I was skeptical until she showed me Ailish's teeth - totally black. I was floored (and embarrassed). I thought only old cats had horrible teeth. According to the vet, how fast they build up plaque is genetic. Luckily, she had no gingivitis yet. My sister has a cat of undetermined advanced age who has perfectly white teeth. I will just have to budget for a teeth cleaning every 4-5 years. I figure the cleanings are cheaper than multiple extractions. So you probably are cursed. Or just unlucky to have your cat have bad dental genes. That's what I figure. If it's the only bad genes Ailish has, I will consider it a good thing.
 

daftcat75

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I feel for you.. I really do...
I dealt with my own dental issues, for my entire life... then, I adopted Artie, who had dental problems also... had 4 teeth removed... sigh..But he was 8 years old, then.

Now, with Geoffrey, 4-5 years old.. adopted in Nov 2018, he has FORLS!! omg... I was completely upset when I heard this... Not covered by insurance because a preexisting condition.. I was told he will have to undergo a dental, very or every other year, to expect more estracttions during each dental. Eventually, he will have his all his teeth removed... sigh..

And to get him into a Specialist Dentist~ well, the waiting list is at least 6 months long!!
The waitlist for a consultation is anywhere from two months to six months. Procedure appointments are usually within two weeks of the consultation. And specialist dentists, often having their own independent practice, want to work with otherwise healthy cats only since they lack the support of a full-service animal hospital.

FORLs is progressive and degenerative. If your cat has had one, he'll probably keep having them. Get proactive and make that dentist appointment now when he doesn't need it. Because if you wait until he does need it, you'll never get that appointment on time.

My Krista had FORLs. For over two years, she kept going back every few months to get another dental, to get more teeth extracted, and to have them clean up tooth roots. I kept telling her vets, "take them all so we don't have to keep doing this." And they kept telling me, "you should take her to a dentist for that." We did this piecemeal until it came to a head. She wasn't eating and her vets no longer wanted to pull any more teeth in her mouth. They were afraid that getting down to the last few teeth there would be complications or the extractions would be too difficult for their non-specialist hands to perform. She was on the verge of getting a feeding tube...again.

It was only the luck of a wildfire (if you can call that lucky!) that evacuated the service area and cleaned the schedule of a dentist that Krista was able to get both a consultation and a same day procedure appointment in two weeks instead of two months. The dentist showed me the mistakes of the several non-specialist vets who worked in her mouth. One of them even them even had the gall to drill out the teeth but left the roots behind, a condition that was undoubtedly causing her pain. She had lip entrapment and ulceration from mismatched teeth. I told him, "make this the last dental procedure she'll ever need," and he agreed with me. I brought home a toothless cat that afternoon. For the final nine or so months of her life, her teeth were no longer giving her grief.

If your cat has FORLs, make that specialist consultation appointment now to discuss the appropriateness of proactive vs. reactive (waiting for them to go bad) extractions. If you wait like I did, you may not have the luck of a wildfire to help you jump the line.
 
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BlackCatOp

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Dental health from my understanding as someone mentioned above is genetic and I also agree that just like I have found with human dentists, there is variability in dental recommendations.

I have been fortunate that 2 out of my 3 have been blessed with good teeth but I know they are all due (probably over due) for a general cleaning here.

My $ 0.02 While I wish our kitties lived longer, their teeth only need to last them 20ish years vs humans 80ish. And appearance does not matter. So as long as their teeth aren’t causing them any discomfort, then I am not big on major dental work (root canal vs extraction)
 

daftcat75

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Dental health from my understanding as someone mentioned above is genetic and I also agree that just like I have found with human dentists, there is variability in dental recommendations.

I have been fortunate that 2 out of my 3 have been blessed with good teeth but I know they are all due (probably over due) for a general cleaning here.

My $ 0.02 While I wish our kitties lived longer, their teeth only need to last them 20ish years vs humans 80ish. And appearance does not matter. So as long as their teeth aren’t causing them any discomfort, then I am not big on major dental work (root canal vs extraction)
Cats won't tell you when they're in pain. Cats don't understand that dental issues can be fixed. By the time you're taking a cat in for dental issues, they've likely been silently and stoically enduring pain for a long time until they hit their breaking point--the pain exceeded their hunger. This thought makes me very sad.

I don't know that cat dentists perform root canals. I think even a dental specialist would rather extract the tooth than to try to save it. Cats can do very well without teeth. However, because mismatched extractions can cause structural changes to their bite which can result in lip entrapment and gum ulceration, it's better to consult a dental specialist about the state of a cat's mouth and whether it makes more sense to do proactive extractions to avoid these kinds of complications when dealing with a chronic dental issue. General vets get a class or two in dentistry. Enough to clean and pull teeth. Nothing like a specialist though. I like my GP doctor. But if my teeth are bothering me, I'm going to a dentist.

I like that general vets can do extractions. They can certainly build that bridge from here to there when you're talking about two to six month wait times on the specialists. Take care of what's bothering her now with whoever you trust to do the work right. But with chronic dental diseases like FORLs and stomatitis, I'm also a firm supporter of discussing a long-term plan with a specialist before that unendurable pain becomes a short-term crisis.
 

BlackCatOp

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Cats won't tell you when they're in pain. Cats don't understand that dental issues can be fixed. By the time you're taking a cat in for dental issues, they've likely been silently and stoically enduring pain for a long time until they hit their breaking point--the pain exceeded their hunger. This thought makes me very sad.

I don't know that cat dentists perform root canals. I think even a dental specialist would rather extract the tooth than to try to save it. Cats can do very well without teeth. However, because mismatched extractions can cause structural changes to their bite which can result in lip entrapment and gum ulceration, it's better to consult a dental specialist about the state of a cat's mouth and whether it makes more sense to do proactive extractions to avoid these kinds of complications when dealing with a chronic dental issue. General vets get a class or two in dentistry. Enough to clean and pull teeth. Nothing like a specialist though. I like my GP doctor. But if my teeth are bothering me, I'm going to a dentist.

I like that general vets can do extractions. They can certainly build that bridge from here to there when you're talking about two to six month wait times on the specialists. Take care of what's bothering her now with whoever you trust to do the work right. But with chronic dental diseases like FORLs and stomatitis, I'm also a firm supporter of discussing a long-term plan with a specialist before that unendurable pain becomes a short-term crisis.
Disagree. I feel that I am very astute at telling signs of pain in my cats but then again I also worry a lot about their health. Hypersalivation, hunched posture, lack of normal routine for cuddles for example would all be warning flags to me. My cats receive bi-annual wellness check-ups and no concern for dental disease has been indicated.

Root canals can actually be performed but then again, I feel they are not needed as the tooth can just be pulled. Just like with all of medicine, there are different thoughts and ideas when it comes to medical practice.
 
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rosegold

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The kitties had their procedures today. Luckily Chilli only needed the one tooth pulled as all the others showed up perfect on the x ray. Clove has recovered really fast and actually seems happier than usual, bouncing around and eating right away and coming for loves like her usual self.

Chilli, on the other hand, is still extremely stressed and out of it. This happened last time she had a dental cleaning so I’m trying not to worry, but it’s so hard to see her like this. :( She was sensitive to the stuff they put on her teeth so she’d drooled a bunch, and apparently had also peed/pooped herself at some point since they had to wash off her back end. So she looked all scraggly and pitiful when I picked her up, and started crying and panting as soon as we got in the car to go home. She also peed a tiny bit of blood in the litter box, which was alarming. I talked to my vet right away and he said it was probably due to stress, and that the meds he gave me for her dental surgery would also be effective if she had a bladder infection, so to just keep an eye on her for now and let him know. She ate a tube of squeezable treat, but otherwise doesn’t want anything to eat. I guess it’s a combination of nausea and her mouth being sore. Right now she just wants to hide and look sad. :(
 

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it’s so hard to see her like this
I know exactly what you mean. Mocha had to have all but six of her teeth pulled in December, and she was terrified and in pain. And she wouldn’t let me get close to her so I couldn’t even give her her pain meds. I felt awful, but all I could do was leave her alone and keep an eye on her. Three days later, she was back to normal. They can be such resilient little things. I hope Chilli bounces back soon. :alright:

The morning after surgery. Misery did not want company.
2E1F3E22-588D-4348-AD65-1C73CF42FD74.jpeg
1BBCCC35-F903-41A4-8154-606AD6BB1F11.jpeg
 
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rosegold

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I know exactly what you mean. Mocha had to have all but six of her teeth pulled in December, and she was terrified and in pain. And she wouldn’t let me get close to her so I couldn’t even give her her pain meds. I felt awful, but all I could do was leave her alone and keep an eye on her. Three days later, she was back to normal. They can be such resilient little things. I hope Chilli bounces back soon. :alright:

The morning after surgery. Misery did not want company.
View attachment 348938
View attachment 348939
Oh, poor Mocha! She looks so sad.

Chilli has the same expression (even though she only had one tooth pulled ;) )
85F8EF4A-F3DE-40F7-8B00-66CA9E66F664.jpeg


Chilli still hasn’t eaten except for a tiny bit more of the squeezable treat, which means she hasn’t had an actual meal for over 24 hours now. I wish she would eat because I think she’d feel better, but I guess it’s still too tender. I’ll just have to keep offering her more treats for now.
 

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The alternative. 😿 Krista, the morning after her extractions. Except per my request, they only gave her the short acting pain relief. I vowed to always give her the long-lasting shot after this no matter how strange she acted for those three days.

https://thecatsite.com/media/my-little-lion.422562/
(Volume on to hear just how unhappy she was.)

This was a fun pickup.

“Krista is ready. But. No one wants to go in and get her for you.”

They let me back. I tossed a towel over her and scooped the growling, snarling monster into a cardboard box carrier. The little goober was back to trilling once we got in the car and were driving away. 😻
 
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rosegold

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The alternative. 😿 Krista, the morning after her extractions. Except per my request, they only gave her the short acting pain relief. I vowed to always give her the long-lasting shot after this no matter how strange she acted for those three days.

https://thecatsite.com/media/my-little-lion.422562/
(Volume on to hear just how unhappy she was.)

This was a fun pickup.

“Krista is ready. But. No one wants to go in and get her for you.”

They let me back. I tossed a towel over her and scooped the growling, snarling monster into a cardboard box carrier. The little goober was back to trilling once we got in the car and were driving away. 😻
Awww, so ferocious yet so adorable!!
 

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I'm late but just wanted to add my opinion in case others see this thread too.

I agree with di and bob di and bob that some, maybe most vets are too generous with dental procedures. Seemingly especially in the USA. In Turkey it's the opposite which is bad too, they hesitate to operate even when it's really necessary if the cat has feline coronavirus as they fear of FIP mutation. Obviously I'm no expert but since my own cat has gingivitis and gets flare ups, and also FCoV, I've been following stuff and talking to vets and my impression is this...

There is definitely "waiting too much." Our condo's one street cat couldn't make it out of dental surgery but it was because it was too late to take her - that she has lost too much weight due to not eating well and her immune system got weak.

I disagree with daftcat75 daftcat75 on cats not showing pain. I know that they try to hide when they are in public but usually their humans know them well enough to tell something is wrong based on their behavior. ESPECIALLY with dental problems because they aren't easy to hide like internal organ issues. Like, they lick their mouth too much, they overgroom, salivate too much, grind their teeth, can't eat dry food.. you know what I mean? When mine had her worst flare up she would wake up suddenly and jump off the bed and paw her mouth. (She was treated with antibiotics then.) If there isn't something like these, the cat is still playing, acting normal with some unncomfort here and there... even if there is pain, that must be mild enough and personally I wouldn't risk sedation at this point. If for nothing else...

My concern with teeth cleaning is that I don't think they do much. Not enough for sedation. I mean just think how much once a year cleaning at the dentist do to our own teeth. The important factors are still brushing and if brushing doesn't go well (it hurts some gingivitis cats), then dental treats. And enzymatic water additives or toothgels. A lot of cats end up needing extraction if they live long enough and/or if they have genetic dental problems. Personally I would rather wait for when it's clearly needed to also get teeth cleaning done. I don't like the idea of getting several different dental procedures (so several different times of sedation) just to get one tooth pulled each time, at least not because my cat has FCoV.

With that said, many cats with FCoV or without do well after a dental procedure. As one of the vets told me a lot of people don't even get their cats tested before a dental procedure or vaccination so it doesn't make the statistics how many FCoV cats do just fine with surgery.
 
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