Need Some Opinions - Help!

[FeebysOwner]

Just this past Sunday, after about 4 months of time, we finally were able to trap two cats that were abandoned back in late October. One cat is domesticated and could be adopted very easily. The other appears to be semi-feral and hardly touchable. They, however, were abandoned together, and have stayed by each other's side for the entire time. They are in the non-literal sense "attached at the hip".

The only place available right now to keep them is in an unoccupied house in my neighborhood which is owned by the lady who lives next door to this house. The lady's father recently passed away, and her father was a hoarder. So, EVERY room in the house is loaded with horrendous amounts of furniture, junk, etc. Out of town family will be coming in as they can to help go through everything and toss/sell/take the items. However, a bathroom was cleared out to house these two cats.

They were placed in separate crates because: 1.) the semi-feral cat needs to be confined to prevent her from escaping, and 2.) the domesticated cat was pregnant and needed a protected space (she gave birth to one kitten last night). Due to space limitations, one crate had to be placed on top of the other. So, while each cat knows the other is in the same room with them, they cannot really see each other or touch each other.

I don't know this lady very well, but I know she does work with rescue centers and has been a foster numerous times. So, I feel like I should trust her - and, she seems to think the set up is OK. But, it is bothering me and I am a bit concerned. She is also planning on socializing the semi-feral.

Will this hurt the chances of being able to socialize the semi-feral? How damaging is this emotionally - particularly to the semi-feral? Am I making a bigger deal out of it than I should? I don't think there is a resolution, but I need to know if I have legitimate concerns, or am just being overly paranoid. Thanks. ​

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
For the short term, especially while the place is being emptied out (I don't envy them, but bless their hearts for opening up a bathroom) I think this will be ok.

Unfortunately there's never any really good way to get semi ferals into humans' lives without some chaos including vet trips et al, but they usually are ok with us at the end of it all.

Thank you for the opportunity to weigh in and give my two cents

 

[Kflowers]

It's hard, but I'm thinking at least she has the small space. I think you're going to have to trust her. she said she'd socialize Beba, whom she considers a semi-feral which makes me think she's done it before. Beba is pretty gentle to for a semi-feral, she hasn't sent anyone to the ER, so that's hopeful.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Oh no! Cat rescue lady just called me. Mia had two more kittens just a little while ago - that's almost 24 hours behind the first. Is that common?? One was stillborn. The other that is still alive is half the size of the first baby. So, not even the size of a normal hand-palm. The still born was about half again that size again. Mia seems OK, but with these two births the aftermath blood was significant. Cat lady says she seems OK, is eating and tending to her two live babies.

I will post my other concern later. Right now, I just wanted to release the anguish and grief that came with this phone call.

Help people - talk to me...….

 

[FeebysOwner]

Don't have any updates on the babies yet.

But, when talking to cat rescue lady last night, she said her philosophy is that Beba cannot truly be socialized properly until she is separated from Mia. She said Beba won't rely on any human as her 'mother' until a human replaces the mother cat.

Is this true?

 

[di and bob]

I wouldn't think so, even by smell and sound they are most likely comforting each other. I have tamed cats much quicker too, when they see me interacting with others and how much the other cats are enjoying being touched, etc. They may have to be separated eventually anyway, so you might consider that. itruly think teh one you think is semi feral, really isn't, she is just more traumatized and not able to accept change like the other, a more high strung personality. she'll calm down eventually. Two females together were most likely raised that way, they don't bond readily in the wild.
As for the birth, it is not uncommon at all for cats to give birth many hours, even days apart. But since teh last two were so small, I would venture to say thr birth was most likely premature and the biggest kitten was likely just larger than the others to begin with. It is imperative to make sure teh preemie can latch on and is eating enough. As for mama, as long as she is not acting distressed and is caring for the kittens, all is well.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thanks. The one I am calling semi-feral was more like a 4-ish month old kitten that probably had little-to-no human interaction before the two were dumped four months ago. It took over 2 months just get her stop running from the human that was feeding the them, and it was just a couple of weeks ago that she would finally allow '2-second' pettings.

I agree with you about there being a benefit for the less friendly one to observe human-cat interactions through the older cat. I think she got to where she was at the time of trapping solely based on what she observed of the older cat's behavior. I am worried that not allowing them to be together, maybe even see each other - at least for a while - is going to cause her to regress. Like going back to Square One.

So, you're telling me don't get too stressed if they can't be together/see each other? I know it is more than likely that after the babies - assuming they live - are weaned, all of the cats will probably be separated.

 

[Furballsmom]

Every cat is different, but hopefully in this furbaby's case she doesn't revert, or if she does, it's more of a temporary setback.

 

[di and bob]

They draw comfort from each other. But if they are separated they will, in time, learn to be apart. It would be much better if they could spend time together now, but maybe mama wouldn't want the other around the babies. Some do, some don't. It takes about a month for them to get used to not being around each other. But if tehy are deeply bonded it may take longer.

 

[Jcatbird]

Do you know if they are related? Are you saying one is a kitten from a previous litter? It could be that Mom looks to the younger kitten as still family. I have had some move new litters away and others had previous kittens as siblings to the new litter. If this is an older kitten, it should be able to break the bond with Mom okay now that there is a new baby. It’s always difficult to break up bonded kitties.
I’m so sorry about the loss of the still born. The stress of feral moms is very hard. She may have gotten pregnant right after having a previous litter. Back to back pregnancies are hard in the Mom. Nature understands and takes the little weak ones so they do not suffer. The sirvivibg babies will have a much easier time making it with fewer babies putting demands on the supply of milk Mom produces. Again, I’m so sorry. I hope the other will be okay. A delay in birth times is pretty common so don’t worry. Ifa whole lot of blood continues to pass then there might be some concern but it could just be a normal passing. If the person helping is experienced then they should recognize any concerns.
Right now the kitties are aware of each other. That’s good. Just so you know, I've socialized ferals of all ages, and stages of being used to seeing people. Each cat is different and reacts differently but they tend to be wonderful and loving kitties. I think the relief of being safe makes all the difference once they understand they don’t need to be afraid anymore. It’s wonderful that the kitties have a safe place. It may be small to you but it means security for them. The people offering this spot are fantastic! Please keep us updated! We’ll want to know how everything goes for you all and for the kitties.
Thank you to everyone involved here! Bravo for helping these kitties.
If any help is needed on the socializing of the more feral kitty, or other, there are lots of places on the site that give information, tips and decades of experience from people who have worked with ferals. I know they would all be willing to share anything that helped them.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thank you Jcatbird ! We have no way of knowing if the older cat is the younger cat's mama. It would seem likely. The younger cat may be somewhere between 8-10 months old, and trust me I have no experience with this, so . The mama cat, is likely between 1 - 1/2 maybe???

The mama cat probably had the babies early because of the trap/relocate that just occurred Sunday. No way to have avoided that, and get her to a safe place before she delivered.

I am just worried as the only thing that got the younger cat to even slightly befriend the homeowner where they were dumped was by watching the older cat, and wanting to be by her cat-buddy-mama's side 24/7.

So, if circumstances don't allow them to be nearer to each other/see each other while mama is nursing her two babies, I shouldn't freak out so much? I don't think the foster plans on socializing the younger cat just yet - after all they have only been in their new confined space for about 72 hours.

 

[Jcatbird]

If it were me...... lol..... I would assume that the younger one came because it’s mother came. That’s just me. If I were working with them I would try to see if Mom wants the younger cat around. Does she hiss at it? If so, that tells you what you need to know. One hiss, no big deal as they need to recognize each other. A real reaction means no close reunion at this time. Some Moms use previous litters as babysitters. Lol
If they are separated, I would start trying to work with them immediately. Scent swapping first. I would really focus on getting the young one to try and take treats from you off a spoon or finger tip if it isn’t going to swat. The sooner you socialize the better but work at the pace the kitty is comfortable with. Sitting next to them quietly is a good start. Letting them see you are not a threat. Don’t stare at them. Slow blinks. Turning your back while sitting there is non threatening. Babyfood meAt is an excellent lure. There are dozens of tips to get these kitties socialized and even turn them into future lap cats. Anything is possible if they are given the chance and the right kitty language is used. Establishing trust can earn a lifetime of kitty love!
I’ll keep checking back with you. Please feel free to write any time. We all care!

 

[FeebysOwner]

As I said before trapping, the two cats were inseparable. You mean to see if mama wants anything to do with younger cat now that she has two babies? That would require moving the crates somehow so they could see each other, and then moving them back again if there is a bad reaction by one or the other.

I won't be the one socializing the younger cat. Both cats (and now babies) are in a foster home, so I can't control how the process goes down. So, far the younger cat (in all 4 months) has refused any kind of food - human/baby food, or otherwise - besides dry cat food. Mama on the hand, has been willing to eat pretty much anything!!

Thanks again. I will be posting a lot here, this is a 24/7 thought-process for me.

 

[Jcatbird]

If they are already in foster care then you’re very right, you are probably out of the process now. Most fosters are well experienced and you can just pass on the information that this may have been that Mom’s baby so, might do better as far as eating, etc. if it sees her eat. The foster probably has their own methods and processes for handling all these issues. I don’t think you need to worry.You did a great thing by helping the kitties get so far along in this rescue! Yay! I hope all will go very smoothly from now on.
The baby is probably only used to eating dry but that may change later. One step at a time. Kitten steps! We’ll be looking for updates!

 

[1 bruce 1]

Wow, what a situation.
If they're that attached to one another, I would feel like a piece of crud keeping them separate all the time, but if they're together all the time they may not see a need to form any kind of bond with anyone else. I'd treat it like you'd treat 3 year old twin kids that aren't showing interest in other kids because they have each other. No one separates these kids for the rest of their lives but dad might take one kid to a baseball game, and mom might take the other kid to the petting zoo, etc., for a few hours. So if you can manage to separate them for a short period of time for something they both like (if they eat good, I'd do it then) then let them back together, then start extending the time and adding in some playtime with you, or quiet time with you in the room, etc. etc. etc.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Both cats are eating well. It's just the change in lifestyle for them - especially the younger cat, not being able to run and play and be close to the older cat as she was always before - that is breaking my heart. The foster, believe me, has had an earful (nice, not bad) of information/history from me and the woman who took care of them in her backyard all this time. She knows how attached we are to these cats!

I will be able to visit when I want (I will try to be reasonable about it.) And, I expect to have some level of involvement for the duration of their stay with her. Not to mention I am donating money to her for the food/litter/etc. And, I will be more than likely paying much of the expenses when it comes time to spay/vax them.

I just got done visiting with these two cats and the two babies! The mother cat (Mia) is doing a good job with her babies and seems very comfortable. She did love our company, but we didn't want to stay too long.

The younger cat (Beba) hissed when we opened the door to the bathroom, but that was the only sign of hostility. After a bit, she was relaxed enough to almost lay down for a nap while we were there. But...curiosity... (haha). Beba also got a bed added to her crate that she had in the backyard where she was staying. Plus, a couple of toys!

I am still bummed about their 'accommodations' but as long as I don't see super stress from Beba, I guess I will learn to live with the arrangements.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Both cats are eating well. It's just the change in lifestyle for them - especially the younger cat, not being able to run and play and be close to the older cat as she was always before - that is breaking my heart. The foster, believe me, has had an earful (nice, not bad) of information/history from me and the woman who took care of them in her backyard all this time. She knows how attached we are to these cats!

I will be able to visit when I want (I will try to be reasonable about it.) And, I expect to have some level of involvement for the duration of their stay with her. Not to mention I am donating money to her for the food/litter/etc. And, I will be more than likely paying much of the expenses when it comes time to spay/vax them.

I just got done visiting with these two cats and the two babies! The mother cat (Mia) is doing a good job with her babies and seems very comfortable. She did love our company, but we didn't want to stay too long.

The younger cat (Beba) hissed when we opened the door to the bathroom, but that was the only sign of hostility. After a bit, she was relaxed enough to almost lay down for a nap while we were there. But...curiosity... (haha). Beba also got a bed added to her crate that she had in the backyard where she was staying. Plus, a couple of toys!

I am still bummed about their 'accommodations' but as long as I don't see super stress from Beba, I guess I will learn to live with the arrangements.

Give Bebe heavy eye blinks and keep it up. Almost napping with you in the room is encouraging, the hiss was more than likely a startle at someone opening the door and entering. I think they will be fine with the arrangements for now.
When we moved here we had a house full of old, set in their ways cats and a few of them had the "touch me and die" way. The thought of moving them was a nightmare. We kept them confined during move out in the old place, then kept them confined here for a day or so during move in, and guess what? They were fine.
I know this isn't a moving situation but point is I think sometimes we worry more about them than they do about themselves. You're doing good work. Their lives have improved 110% whether they know it or not just yet

 

[FeebysOwner]

I had to spend some time digesting something I was told yesterday before talking about it here... As it turns out the foster who is taking care of Beba, Mia and her two babies, has 11 cats of her own and another 19 that she has been fostering for some time; trying to mend some, and adopt out others as she can. I don't know whether she is exaggerating, or talking about some that stay with other neighbors, or what. Word gets out fast about cat lovers, and there have been people who have just dumped cats at her doorstep. She hasn't been able to find any more fosters as of right now, so she is 'collecting' cats by the car loads.

I hate the environment Beba and Mia are in - alone in a bathroom in an unoccupied house - but after hearing this, I am almost relieved. I would not want them in her house with all that going on!!!

This is a prime example of yet another of the thousands and thousands of cases where there are just way too many abandoned/stray cats/kittens and way too many people willing/able to foster. If it weren't for Feeby, her age and demeanor, those cats would be in my house.

I was unhappy about Beba's and Mia's circumstances, now I just plain distraught.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Foster just called to say that 1.) Mia and babies are doing great, and 2.) both late last night and again during today's visits with the cats, she was able to open the crate and actually pet Beba.

Then, she tells me she is planning on having her tested, vax'd, and spayed TOMORROW. I am beside myself. But, then again, she knows more about how to handle these things than I do. I guess I could never be a foster or a rescue aide as I could not possibly move that fast.

 

[di and bob]

I know how you feel, I always get sick to my stomach too! Getting her done is good so she can then heal and be much better suited for placement. But aren't her kittens just days old? how will she nurse them, or is it a flank incision? i always waited until the kittens were old enough to survive on their own, about 5-6 weeks. You might want to call a vet and ask. I don't think you can say much, but she would have to hand raise those kittens if mom can't nurse. And also, right now they need to nurse every two hours! i would ask her what is going on.....