Need Help Regarding "iffy" Breeder

[EricM]

Hello all,

First post so bear with me...

My current situation is this; my fiance and I are currently looking for Scottish Fold
kittens. I've checked the TICA Breeders and the ones that are close by our location
have no kittens available. So she (fiance) google searched and found Kenny's'Folds.
He has six available in Texas, willing to fly to nearest airport, all for $650. This seems
too good to be true, right? He says he's registered with TICA, but their website doesn't
mention him or his cattery. Am I being reasonably paranoid? Any help is appreciated, this
is our first time trying our breeders and I'd like a smooth experience if possible.

 

[orange&white]

I would call TICA and ask if someone can verify the breeder's registration.

Contact TICA

 

[abyeb]

I did some research on this breeder and found zilch. You want to be super careful with Scottish Folds especially, as their folded ears are caused by a cartilage defect which can lead to other health issues including osteochondrodysplasia. Some breeders do try to keep a low profile online so that they don't get bombarded by emails from pet buyers. I know that for CFA, breeders have to pay to get their name listed on the "find a kitten" page, but I don't know how it works with TICA. The best way to meet reputable breeders is to go to a cat show near you. and don't limit yourself to TICA! I'll attach the show schedules of various other organizations, as I assume you're already familiar with the TICA website. Show Calendar
Show Schedule

 

[EricM]

Awesome info, thank you both very much!

 

[orange&white]

The breeder's website shows that both their breeding males and both their breeding females are champion and double-champions. I don't know much about "show cats". Is there a way to verify the titles of their breeding stock?

Top quality Scottish fold kittens

 

[abyeb]

Sorry, I just wanted to add some more... if you are open to looking at other Scottish Fold breeders, Amber Snow is an excellent one, having bred CHOCLATMOUSSE, a CFA Grand Champion of Distinction, a breed winner, and a national winner. I'll attach a link to the website: Scottish Folds
Furthermore, are you aware that if you purchase a pet-quality or "off standard" kitten from any breeder, they will likely have straight ears? I just want to be sure that you are choosing a Scottish Fold because you are in love with their personality, not just because you like the way they look.

 

[abyeb]

The breeder's website shows that both their breeding males and both their breeding females are champion and double-champions. I don't know much about "show cats". Is there a way to verify the titles of their breeding stock?

Top quality Scottish fold kittens

I am only familiar with CFA titles, unfortunately, but it is not unheard of for breeders to lie about accomplishments that their cats titles. The info I acquired about Choclatmousse was from the CFA website, so I know it's legit: Scottish Fold Photos, Top Cats 2015-16

 

[orange&white]

The kittens' pictures are up on the Kenny's website. One of the kits looks a bit "weird"...the grey one with google eyes. The rest are adorable.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Your paranoia is entirely reasonable.

Personal opinion: I wouldn't even consider buying a Scottish Fold or an Highland Fold from any breeder who wasn't ACA, TICA, and CFA registered, nor would I purchase a Foldie from anyone whose website didn't make clear the fact that they were entirely familiar with the genetics, with Foldies' propensity toward osteochondrodysplasia, and who didn't picture both Parents to show that two Fd / Fd cats weren't bred together. I'd want references with whom I could speak directly by telephone, a written three year replacement guarantee against abnormalities, and at least one Allbreed Judge's statement regarding both Parents.

That's what better quality Scottish Fold breeders will offer without having to be asked. For $650.00 you get a cat with folded ears. Carefully, professionally bred and vetted Pet Quality Scottish Folds (no Registry Papers without prior desexing) will start in the $1,500.00 - $1,800.00 range; Show Quality (TGC, QGC, SGC Parentage) cats will be much more; breeders' stock will actually be expensive.

.

 

[orange&white]

I'll leave it to the cat professionals from here. I'm better at looking at AKC dog credentials myself (looking for a Cairn Terrier this year or next).

I will say that I would wait for 6 months to a year, maybe more, to find the right breeder when looking for a purebred pet.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Is there a way to verify the titles of their breeding stock?

Absolutely. It's a very small, insular world. TICA posts their Judges pictures and telephone numbers right on the site:

TICA Judges

as does CFA:

http://cfa.org/Portals/0/documents/judges/judges-list.pdf

.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I will say that I would wait for 6 months to a year, maybe more, to find the right breeder when looking for a purebred pet.

There's your second best advice right there. Attend as many local and regional shows as possible; talk to the breeders whose cats appeal to you, and make the decision based on patient research.

Best advice: adopt a kitten from a shelter or from Scottish Fold Rescue:

Scottish Fold Rescue, Inc., ScottishFoldRescue.net

.

 

[EricM]

Thank you all again for the continuous info, it's very helpful and enlightening. My fiance and I have done some research on Fold's and this is the breed she is set on she's in love with their personality, I'm leaning towards a Bombay myself. We're looking forward to our future companions to share our new home with.

Also, the more I look into this breeder it is amazing to me that I cannot find anything on them. I mean, google can find just about anything on anyone, but not this. This is the worrisome part. I think I'll take a step back and look into the breeders that are ACA, TICA, and CFA registered. Hopefully that'll make this process easier for us.

 

[abyeb]

I just found something on the Kenny's website, that, I really hope is just poor wording on their part, otherwise, it indicates very little knowledge about cat breeds, as well as their breed. On the front page of the website it says, "We are a small home based cattery breeding Scottish Fold and Scottish Straight (some would call them british short hair) kittens." I'd like to draw attention to the part where they say that some would call Scottish Straight cats British Shorthair. It could be that they are just writing very poorly, saying that some people might confuse a Scottish Straight with a British Shorthair, or the more disturbing, that they (the breeder) think that a Scottish Straight is a British Shorthair, which, anyone with knowledge of cat breeds, would realize is completely false.

Furthermore, going to the "our males" page, the website says that Pippi Longstocking is a CFA champion, and a CFA international champion. I am unsure if they are trying to say that this cat was entered into a world show, or if they have a title of "International Champion". If they are claiming the latter, this title DOES NOT EXIST, the highest honor a CFA cat can win is a Nationals winner. Furthermore, the cat pictured as Pippi Longstocking is clearly a Scottish Straight, which is not accepted in the CFA. This gives me the impression that the breeder is lying about their cats' accomplishments.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I just found something on the Kenny's website, that, I really hope is just poor wording on their part, otherwise, it indicates very little knowledge about cat breeds, as well as their breed. On the front page of the website it says, "We are a small home based cattery breeding Scottish Fold and Scottish Straight (some would call them british short hair) kittens." I'd like to draw attention to the part where they say that some would call Scottish Straight cats British Shorthair. It could be that they are just writing very poorly, saying that some people might confuse a Scottish Straight with a British Shorthair, or the more disturbing, that they (the breeder) think that a Scottish Straight is a British Shorthair, which, anyone with knowledge of cat breeds, would realize is completely false.

Furthermore, going to the "our males" page, the website says that Pippi Longstocking is a CFA champion, and a CFA international champion. I am unsure if they are trying to say that this cat was entered into a world show, or if they have a title of "International Champion". If they are claiming the latter, this title DOES NOT EXIST, the highest honor a CFA cat can win is a Nationals winner. Furthermore, the cat pictured as Pippi Longstocking is clearly a Scottish Straight, which is not accepted in the CFA. This gives me the impression that the breeder is lying about their cats' accomplishments.

Abyeb is - not surprisingly - absolutely correct above.

.

 

[maddies momma]

When choosing a breeder you always want to visit them first before committing to taking one of their kittens. You will want to visit the adults and see how they are housed. Wether in the house or in kennels. Be weary of breeders that let you visit but then only bring a couple cats into a specific room for you to visit. They may be hiding something. A proper breeder should have no problem letting you see all of the cats wherever they are located. Another important thing to do is make sure they are health testing the adults before breeding them. It's easy enough to make yourself sound great by deworming, vaccinating and providing a health guarantee for the kittens. But that does not mean that they are free of genetic conditions. Purebreds are prone to genetic diseases. You should look into what diseases Scottish folds are prone to and then find a breeder that tests their adults for these conditions before breeding them.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I agree with all of the above that this is a dishonest breeder. Walk away!

Also, want to note that a cat will not necessarily have characteristics of a chosen breed in terms of personality. You may find the kitten of your dreams in a shelter, nowhere close to pure bred.

 

[posiepurrs]

Some breeders will not let you visit due to safety concerns. They will arrange to meet you. There have been breeders attacked, robbed and beaten. I only let people visit when my husband or grown sons were home when I was breeding. I know very little about folds, but this breeder doesn't sound exactly stellar.

 

[orange&white]

Ok. I can definitely see the difference between the Kenny's "quality" Folds site and the website for Maine Coons that another member here is looking at: Average Cost Of A Maine Coon? (website of that breeder link is at post #5 in that thread)

Looking a both websites, it's clear the Maine Coon breeder is legitimate top-quality, and Kenny's Folds looks like a "wannabe-legitimate" breeder.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Ok. I can definitely see the difference between the Kenny's "quality" Folds site and the website for Maine Coons that another member here is looking at: Average Cost Of A Maine Coon? (website of that breeder link is at post #5 in that thread)

Looking a both websites, it's clear the Maine Coon breeder is legitimate top-quality, and Kenny's Folds looks like a "wannabe-legitimate" breeder.

Yep - exactly right. Sometimes the appearance of a website can be deceiving, but in this case it's black and white. Abyeb - who has real experience in this area as does Lynda of PosiePurrs Persians - often cautions people who are interested in purebred kittens to go to shows and to chat with the breeders one on one, and it's very sound advice. Some breeders stand head and shoulders above the rest, and their cats make that clear when exhibited. I'd guess that 90% of the reason is good environment and attentive veterinary care.

Read through Lynda's PosiePurrs site some time and the fact that good environment pays off is readily apparent. Regarding genetic conditions and traits which are germane to specific breeds, she actually notes - on the welcome page of her site - "All of the foundation cats used in my breeding program have been DNA tested for PKD1 by the lab at UC Davis. All are negative." As I noted eariler, "nor would I purchase a Foldie from anyone whose website didn't make clear the fact that they were entirely familiar with the genetics, with Foldies' propensity toward osteochondrodysplasia, and who didn't picture both Parents to show that two Fd / Fd cats weren't bred together." Serious breeders with a winning program tell you up front what to expect, and they both welcome questions about their breeding program, and offer the pertinent information to prospective buyers directly, as with PosiePurrs' statement regarding the fact that the DNA test for PKD1 rather than simply crossing their fingers and hoping, as many "back yard breeder" will.

Scottish Folds are lovely cats - gentle as Maine Coons, intelligent, and not mischief-prone, though they can be a little shy. A Foldie from a serious, reliable breeder is an absolute joy, but buying from a kitten mill can be an horror.

Eric - I'd suggest that you and your fiancée take your time, and perhaps attend some of the shows in your area, and take the opportunity to chat with some of the breeders. If nothing else, you'll meet some of the most delightful folks in the world, and have a bit of insight into the tiny and insular world of show cats.

Best of luck.

.