Need help finding dry cat food.

[Jem]

Without going into my whole predicament....please understand I KNOW wet is better, and I'm working on it, so please let that go.....

I currently have a prescription dry food that I want to change as it is not necessary anymore for my cats. (And let's face it, the ingredients aren't fantastic....) I have been trying to find a low carb dry kibble food. I do NOT care if it has grains or is grain free. What I do care is that it does not have corn, peas, potatoes or soy and is low carb.
It seems like even the "with grain" foods are now adding peas and potatoes in their formulas which is very frustrating.
I'm also not totally opposed to having a NAMED meat meal, as long as it's not the main protein source.
I'm in Canada, so unfortunately Dr. Elsey's is not available, at least not where I live. Even Amazon only offers the clean protein salmon, and my kitties are not that fussy for salmon, not to mention the shipping fees are ridiculous.

I have been scouring the internet for foods available in Canada and one looked promising except that the first ingredient was a named meat meal (chicken). The rest was great though, with very low carbs no peas potatoes corn soy or other legumes....IDK, what are your thoughts on meat meals if they are a named single source animal? Especially if it is rendered on site - I know where it comes from.
I have been reading up on meat meals and there is quite a bit of difference of opinion, depending on if it's made from the whole animal vs "beaks and feathers", if it's shipped from various sources vs. made on site or shipped from a named factory...IDK....Overall, I would think that a meat meal is still a better option than plants for protein source....

Please help.

 

[mizzely]

Most have potatoes or peas because they need a binder.

Ones you could look into though are Wysong Epigen 90 and Young Again Zero.

I personally don't dislike meals because it's essentially the meat without moisture. The whole animal weighs more, meaning chicken meal vs chicken per weight gives more meat protein.

 

[amandag1]

Instinct® Ultimate Protein® Grain-Free Cage-Free Chicken Recipe | Instinct Pet Food it does have tapioca and whey protein though...

 

[Jem]

Instinct® Ultimate Protein® Grain-Free Cage-Free Chicken Recipe | Instinct Pet Food it does have tapioca and whey protein though...

I was just looking at that one, then saw the tapioca....was actually coming back to post that I'm leery of tapioca...


What does everyone think of what they say about tapioca? Is it just yet another allergen and it depends on the cat? or is it just bad all around?

 

[Jem]

Is there a difference if it says "peas", "pea protein" or "pea fiber"? Would pea fiber be OK if it's not the protein source?

 

[dragonlady2]

I have always had issues with ”pea protein” as one of the main sources of protein. It’s hard to find a kibble in Canada that has an optimum ingredient list without pea protein as one of the main ingredients. One of our dogs died of an enlarged heart which we attribute to the grain free and pea protein kibble. The kibble we were using wasn’t cheap either.
After doing some more reading on dilated cardio-myopathy I decided to change kibble to include grains and kibble that was more meat protein oriented. I mix the two so the cats and dog get, hopefully, the better of both
worlds. Beyond Simply has the grains I am looking for and Acana Ranchlands or Acana Prairies has the meat protein I am looking for.
Unfortunately, I feel this is still a crapshoot.

 

[Jem]

I feel this is still a crapshoot.

Yup.

I'm so sorry about your dog.

 

[Jem]

NATURAL BALANCE
Original Ultra Whole Body Health Chicken Meal & Salmon Meal Cat Food
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Chicken, Oat Groats, Chicken Liver, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Salmon Meal, Natural Flavor, Menhaden Oil, Pea Fiber, Oat Hulls, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Iodate), Taurine, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), L-Tryptophan, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Citric Acid (preservative), Mixed Tocopherols (preservative), Dried Cranberries, Dried Blueberries, L-Lysine, Dried Kelp, Dried Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract

I found this one....it has pea fiber....still not sure if pea fiber is OK as long as it's not the protein source...
And what the heck are oat groats????

 

[Jem]

Do lentils and chickpeas cause the same amount of issues and sensitivities as peas and potatoes have been documented to do?

 

[Kieka]

Tiki Cat Born Carnivore is a high protein kibble but it has peas and chickpeas. Chicken, chicken meal and chicken liver are the first three ingredients. The problem with peas in food seems to be more that the manufacturers substitute pea protein for less animal protein, lowering the taurin content in dog foods. Since cat foods are supplemented with taurin they don't have the same pitfall. Essentially the peas themselves aren't causing problems but what manufacturers do because of peas is the problem, a ripple effect.

I can't think of any dry food that actually meets your requirements. Those peas have invaded everything....

 

[Jem]

Sorry, I keep asking stuff.

Has anyone else noticed that many manufacturers are listing the percentages of protein from animal vs plant/veg? For example, Orijen lists that 85% of the protein is sourced from animal and 15% sourced from veggies. Another food (I forget the brand) said that 60% comes from an animal, and a different one said 95% (I think that one was the one that was made from meal and had tapioca as the second ingredient)...
What do you think would be an acceptable percentage if I have to settle (which it seems I do...), how low would you go?

The problem with peas in food seems to be more that the manufacturers substitute pea protein for less animal protein

But if it specifically says pea fiber, so I assume that means it is not listed as a protein source...do you think that would be OK? Would it just be if they have no digestive issues / sensitivities to it, I should be fine?

 

[lisahe]

But if it specifically says pea fiber, so I assume that means it is not listed as a protein source...do you think that would be OK? Would it just be if they have no digestive issues / sensitivities to it, I should be fine?

If I absolutely had to choose a pea ingredient out of peas, pea fiber, or pea protein, I'd choose the pea fiber. Though I'd also try to find out exactly what "pea fiber" means.

(I know it's totally beside the point since there's nothing you can do about it... but it's really too bad you can't get Dr. Elsey's!)

 

[Kieka]

But if it specifically says pea fiber, so I assume that means it is not listed as a protein source...do you think that would be OK? Would it just be if they have no digestive issues / sensitivities to it, I should be fine?

Pretty much. All the research and summaries I have read on the heart problems seems to be the driver is using less naturally taurine rich meats and less animal protein in general. Peas are just the driver because when manufacturers started using peas and realized they could use less animal protein and lower their costs, they did. That's probably why even the grain foods have jumped on the pea protein bandwagon, cheaper to make and makes the label look better. Even whole peas or pea fiber will up the protein content a little but it won't inflate it to the degree concentrated pea protein will.

I feed my crew a mix of natural instinct limited rabbit and tiki born carnivore fish right now. But we have a no poultry things which makes me have to find a balance point between my desires and reality. I can't do all wet because of time and there isn't a wet food without poultry they will eat more then an ounce at a time of. Little picky buggers. Everyone does well on their current diet and I can afford it, so I deal with some pea in their diet and keep my eyes out for the next food. With all the bad press on grain free food there will likely be a switch in commercial foods in the next year.

 

[Jem]

Ones you could look into though are Wysong Epigen 90 and Young Again Zero.

Not available here...although the Young Again website says a Canadian distributor is "coming soon".

 

[Jem]

tiki born carnivore fish

seems like I can't get this in store and would have to order online. After shipping for the 5 Lbs bag it would run me up starting at 65$ or MORE (I've checked multiple sites that ship to Canada)...and that's with basic shipping.
The food itself seems to average about 50$ for the 5 Lbs bag....does that seem reasonable? How much do you pay if you don't mind me asking..?

 

[Kieka]

I'm in the US so it's a little less. My local pet store sales a 5 pound bag for $35-40, I can find it online (chewy.com) for $50 for the 11 pound bag. The price in Canada does sound in line considering it has to be shipped over.

 

[MissClouseau]

Sorry, I keep asking stuff.

Has anyone else noticed that many manufacturers are listing the percentages of protein from animal vs plant/veg? For example, Orijen lists that 85% of the protein is sourced from animal and 15% sourced from veggies. Another food (I forget the brand) said that 60% comes from an animal, and a different one said 95% (I think that one was the one that was made from meal and had tapioca as the second ingredient)...
What do you think would be an acceptable percentage if I have to settle (which it seems I do...), how low would you go?


But if it specifically says pea fiber, so I assume that means it is not listed as a protein source...do you think that would be OK? Would it just be if they have no digestive issues / sensitivities to it, I should be fine?

That's what I was going to point out as well. Hima's dry food is Acana and it does have peas, lentils and all but since both Acana and Orijen are mostly animal products, I think their fillers are still less in amount than most other brands'. Hima's is Wild Prairie and that one also has the lowest % phosphorus. The others' are a bit higher than the average "1,1% or less" of dry foods.

Also note, Champion Foods in Canada produce in Canada and has higher amount of meat. When there is a controversy about the brand it's in the USA and their USA products are produced in the USA.

 

[xdcat]

Most have potatoes or peas because they need a binder.

Ones you could look into though are Wysong Epigen 90 and Young Again Zero.

I personally don't dislike meals because it's essentially the meat without moisture. The whole animal weighs more, meaning chicken meal vs chicken per weight gives more meat protein.

Yeah that’s the explanation Young again gives on their website, backed by zero scientific evidence. You really don’t know what is in “meal” unless you know the supplier of that “meal.” Young again refuses to disclose supplier and cannot back up the claim “human-grade.” A friend asked them and the president of the company Michael J. Massie stonewalled him claiming disclosing suppliers would let their competitors “hurt” them somehow. Yet there are companies who have no problems being transparent. According to https://foodregulationfacts.com/ meal, oil, fat, hudrolyzed protein in most pet food comes from disgusting rendering factories that basically use garbage. What’s hiding within that ingredient label? … a possible under-evaluated nutritional contributor to DCM in pets

 

[xdcat]

Not available here...although the Young Again website says a Canadian distributor is "coming soon".

I do not recommend this brand based on months of bad experience with my cats (stinkiest diarrhea for months) and how this company has zero transparency. If you all them a question, their vague explanations are not based on any scientific evidence.

 

[mizzely]

Yeah that’s the explanation Young again gives on their website, backed by zero scientific evidence. You really don’t know what is in “meal” unless you know the supplier of that “meal.” Young again refuses to disclose supplier and cannot back up the claim “human-grade.” A friend asked them and the president of the company Michael J. Massie stonewalled him claiming disclosing suppliers would let their competitors “hurt” them somehow. Yet there are companies who have no problems being transparent. According to https://foodregulationfacts.com/ meal, oil, fat, hudrolyzed protein in most pet food comes from disgusting rendering factories that basically use garbage. What’s hiding within that ingredient label? … a possible under-evaluated nutritional contributor to DCM in pets

My thoughts on meal had zero to do with Young Again. I have no experience with their food or their company.

I do named meals whenever possible vs meat or poultry meal


Meat Meal -- The Mysterious Meat Concentrate Used to Make Dog Food

Pet Food Labels



from the AAFCO
The Association of American Feed Control Officials > Consumers > What is in Pet Food

Meat Meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. It shall not contain extraneous materials not provided for by this definition. …. {the definition goes on to include the required mineral specifications and required nutrient guarantees}….. If the product bears a name descriptive of its kind, composition or origin it must correspond thereto.”

The rendering process is designed to destroy disease-causing bacteria, leaving an ingredient high in protein that while unappetizing to people appeals to the carnivore's palate. Unlike "meat" and "meat by-products," this ingredient may be from mammals other than cattle, pigs, sheep or goats without further description. However, a manufacturer may designate a species if appropriate (such as "beef meal" if only from cattle)