Need Help Deciding On Show/ Breeding Quality Himalayan Male

[KatsPurrrsians]

Im having the hardest time in choosing a male himi to add to my breeding program. I’d like to get as close to show quality as possible with this purchase. However, I’m no judge and I haven’t been to as many shows as I’d like, so I don’t know all the quality/ feature related do’s and dont’s to look for. I’ve been talking to several highly reputable breeders and done the legwork on the catterys. I’ve narrowed my search down by look, genetics, and pedigree, to fall in line with what I’m aiming for and I simply can’t choose between these precious babies!
Is there anyone who can give me advice on tell me whether any of these kittens is more show quality than the other?

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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Good advice is relative, and the best advice is usually very expensive. In this case, the best advice - for a breeder's quality cat - is to wait until the show season is over, and then offer to buy the kitten who finishes Best in Breed for the year overall. There's one notorious successful Siamese breeder who has done just this for years, and it's pretty close to foolproof, since the judges have already made their proclamation, but convincing a breeder to sell - who's just had a successful season with a kitten - requires good people skills and a wallet the size of the Titanic.
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[KatsPurrrsians]

but convincing a breeder to sell - who's just had a successful season with a kitten - requires good people skills and a wallet the size of the Titanic.

Good point 1CatOverTheLine ! And very good advice!! I’ve had an extremely sudden and tragic turn in my breeding program. It’s a long and sad story but unfortunately it’s got me at a disadvantage with waiting. I’m having to start over with a new male and in order for him to grow into an adult cat by next spring when my female will be ready to breed, I’ll need to purchase a male pretty soon. Since I have a big family with children I think it’s best to start with a young male so that he can get used to us and grow up being around myself, my children and my family. Our cats aren’t just breeders, but a part of the family as well. I feel it makes for a better bond the younger I get him.

So do you have any opinions on the cats I posted?

 

[kristenann]

I know really nothing about himi's (aside from my all encompassing love of pointed cats) but from aesthetic view point I prefer the facial mask on the first peke seal point male. His eyes also look the bluest. On the second and third male the mask extends further under the eyes and just isn't as appealing to me personally.

But both are freaking adorable! Good luck!

 

[posiepurrs]

Looking at the photos on my phone it is difficult to really study them, but from what I can see personally I would choose the boy on the red background. His ear set is better and even though he is far to young to judge for certain, his eye color is much better. I don’t know any show breeder who refers to show quality cats as Peke faced though.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Good point 1CatOverTheLine ! And very good advice!! I’ve had an extremely sudden and tragic turn in my breeding program. It’s a long and sad story but unfortunately it’s got me at a disadvantage with waiting. I’m having to start over with a new male and in order for him to grow into an adult cat by next spring when my female will be ready to breed, I’ll need to purchase a male pretty soon. Since I have a big family with children I think it’s best to start with a young male so that he can get used to us and grow up being around myself, my children and my family. Our cats aren’t just breeders, but a part of the family as well. I feel it makes for a better bond the younger I get him.

So do you have any opinions on the cats I posted?

KatsPurrrsians - Not knowing what traits you're selecting for, I'm completely in the dark.

An old breeder once told me that, (this paraphrased, but close enough for jazz) "any d*mned fool can cross a pretty cat by a pretty cat and get more pretty cats, but it takes a patient and stubborn old fool to improve any given breed by putting a sharper point on some traits, and rubbing others out." He was almost ninety when he shared that with me, and the rosettes he'd collected over fifty years' time would just about fill a barn. When he died, the breed was vastly improved; breeders were producing cats whose overall health was dramatically better, and, more importantly, judges saw the breed differently - paying more attention to the cats' vitality than to their pretty faces.
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[abyeb]

Wow! They're both so gorgeous! I'm always so amazed by people who can tell show-quality from when cats are this young.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

Thank you all for the input! It’s helped a lot with narrowing down my decision.

 

[posiepurrs]

I checked the pictures out on my computer and I still think the boy on the red background is the best. The best way to tell is to compare the kitten to the breed standard, which is the description of the perfect cat. You will never find the perfect cat, but get as close as you can to the description. Also remember that some kittens go through what I call the uglies. They seem to fall apart as 'teenagers', getting all out of proportion, but then come back together as they age.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

So I found out the Kitten on the red background isn’t the actual Kitten I’d be getting. He’s from their summer litter and isn’t available. The one she’s picked out for me is only about 3 weeks old and it’s just too young for me to tell enough about, especially to go ahead and reserve for that kind of money.

posiepurrs , that’s actually precisely what I did yesterday after reading yall’s posts (checked out CFA’s PDF on breed standard persian qualifications). I’m in agreement with y’all on the first Kitten but something about that last one (on a cushion in front of the green pillow) just melts my heart. I do see what y’all are saying about his ear distance and the broadness of his head. This is so tough. I’m going to keep looking to see if anything else calls out to me before making my final decision. So I might post more “possibilities “ if I come across anything.

 

[talkingpeanut]

What happened to your male? That’s so sad!

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

What happened to your male? That’s so sad!

It was awful!! I’ve just gotten to where I can tell the story without bawling my eyes out. Last Monday he began crying in a weird way so I took him to the vet. I immediately asked them if it could be UTI or blockage bc he was licking himself and I’ve read horror stories about that. My vet took urine sample and said he had a bad UTI and his bladder was also full. They asked me when he peed last. Well with a multi cat household it’s hard to say but with him being a tomcat I can usually tell his pee apart from the other cats. I was pretty positive he peed late Sunday night. The vet took an x Ray to rule out blockage but it came back not definitive . Vet told me to take him home and separate him from the other cats in a room with his own litter box. So that’s what I did. Gave him a fresh litter box and I sat with him all night. He peed a little bit but not much. So I took him back to the vet Tuesday and they put him under anesthesia to do the catheter procedure. Once they got started te vet came out and said it’s a lot worse than he thought. His penis was blocked at the tip and they couldn’t get the catheter in. They were going to have to do penile reconstructive surgery and create a new hole for him to urinate from. Obviously he would never be able to breed again. I was so upset I couldn’t think straight leaving the vet. Once I got home I was feeling better about him and although he’d never make babies at least he was getting better. About an hour after I got home the vet called with tragic news. He said his heart just stopped. They were almost done with the surgery (2 hours) and it was just too much for him. I’ve been heartbroken and hysterical all week.

It hardly seemed right to begin looking for a new kitty so soon but my other breeder friends convinced it was the best thing to do and might even help with my grief.

 

[auntie]

Oh I am so sorry. That is a terrible thing to go through. Poor sweet kitty. I hope you’re doing okay!

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

He will always hold a special place in my heart. And luckily I’ve got a surprise litter he sired on the way . Unfortunately the dam is a doll face (who will be retiring soon) and my male was extreme face with champion bloodlines so I’ll likely only get doll face kittens from his final litter, otherwise I’d be keeping one of his babies to preserve his bloodline. But I’m moving away from breeding the doll face so I’m going to need a sire of equal quality or better than my sweet baby boy .

 

[talkingpeanut]

I’m very sorry to hear this. How sad.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

I’ve found this boy. He’s a little under a year old and also comes from excellent lines. Does he look up to par with Show quality standards?

 

[talkingpeanut]

Where are you finding all of these young adult cats with breeding rights? Are you sure about their socialization too?

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

The last pic is the only young adult I’ve found. The other two are Kittens from breeders/ catterys in the South East USA. I’ve checked all the breeders via references and through the CFA so I know I’ll be buying from a reputable breeder. A friend found the young adult male (in last pic) for me and I haven’t had a chance to check his papers out yet. I’m still doing my background research on him. All I know so far is that he’s CFA (w/ breeding rights) and I was told he has an excellent pedigree. However I haven’t seen it. It would require quite a bit of traveling to get him as well.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

I found a breeder who has really nice show cats (from what my knowledge tells me). She doesn’t normally sell breeding rights but after explaining my situation she’s willing to sell me rights as long as I agree to c/o my new male with her. Co-ownership is new to me. Can anyone tell me what all this entails? I’m sure it’s different for each breeder, but are there any basic rules to co-ownership? I believe she stated c/o will continue until I have shown him. She’s wanting to sell her breeder kittens as show kittens rather than just breeders . I respect that in a breeder. She has agreed to mentor me so that I can gain more knowledge on the breed and continue her bloodlines as show quality cats. She is hoping to GC this boys parents after the new year.

I’d also love to know your advice on this 3 month old blue lynx point kitten posiepurrs

 

[posiepurrs]

I am happy to hear that she is willing to mentor you. Co-ownership is not unusual for cats going to newbies. Are you planning on showing the boy you are getting? Honestly, the boy you posted the photo of is breeder quality at best, not show quality, in my opinion. SORRY. Remember this is just my opinion based on what I have seen in the show halls. In the photo of him facing forward it appears that his nose is low - the top of the nose should be level with the bottom of the eyes. Remember, your male is the most important investment you can make for your cattery - buy the best you can find.