Need guidance on cat introductions

[noani]

Yeah so today I'm still at home (and will be for the next two days it seems). Basically I let out Yoda as soon as I woke up and he came for some cuddles. Then he pounced on Charly twice like in the video where they were on the bed where he full on frog splash jumped on him. Charly was very unhappy and looked (I think) defensive - aggressive. Yoda did not take a hint and did it again, Charly recoiled and was very vocal and kind of laid back all paws ready to strike. So I picked yoda up (he wasn't agitated) and put him in his room 5 mins to cool off (I think he gets overstimulated from all the cuddles he demands sometimes) and let Charly relax. I felt like had I not stepped in Charly may have really lashed out as Yoda wasn't listening, but chances are I'm over reacting a tad again.
Either way, they were fine after.

Charly is more chill today about Yoda sniffing him. He's mostly letting him sniff and they've touched noses a few times. There have been fewer hisses still today and they slept on the bed again but not as close together, but still. When Charly woke up and was grooming, Yoda walked up and sniffed him. Charly looked at him and eventually turned around but didn't hiss and Yoda just walked away again. Yoda also let him use the litterbox without any need for me to distract him.

They've also explored the balcony together a bit (it's completely covered in chicken wire and cat netting) though Yoda is still tentative.
They've had snacks together sitting so close and Yoda tried to brush up against him, to which Charly just moved sideways a bit. Poor little baby he's such a lovey dovey cat and Charly is more like "excuse me no way"
They've been out all day together except two hours around lunchtime when I had a nap.

I guess the good thing is, when I come back from Germany I will have a full week off work left, so we can continue with long periods together before I have to return to work!

So do you think I should have them completely separate while I'm away? That will be so hard on Yoda being locked up again for 8 days although I do see your point. I would probably only stress about it the whole time I'm away :/

They've just gone to lie down again on the bed. Separated by mountains of blankets

Although it is good that Charly feels comfy enough to lie down first and close his eyes with Yoda walking around and he doesn't get scared when Yoda goes up to the bed too. It seems Charly is usually the one who wants to have a break first and Yoda just follows his lead.
And no, it's not a mirror lol. Charly is the one closer to me.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yeah so today I'm still at home (and will be for the next two days it seems). Basically I let out Yoda as soon as I woke up and he came for some cuddles. Then he pounced on Charly twice like in the video where they were on the bed where he full on frog splash jumped on him. Charly was very unhappy and looked (I think) defensive - aggressive. Yoda did not take a hint and did it again, Charly recoiled and was very vocal and kind of laid back all paws ready to strike. So I picked yoda up (he wasn't agitated) and put him in his room 5 mins to cool off (I think he gets overstimulated from all the cuddles he demands sometimes) and let Charly relax. I felt like had I not stepped in Charly may have really lashed out as Yoda wasn't listening, but chances are I'm over reacting a tad again.
Either way, they were fine after.

Charly is more chill today about Yoda sniffing him. He's mostly letting him sniff and they've touched noses a few times. There have been fewer hisses still today and they slept on the bed again but not as close together, but still. When Charly woke up and was grooming, Yoda walked up and sniffed him. Charly looked at him and eventually turned around but didn't hiss and Yoda just walked away again. Yoda also let him use the litterbox without any need for me to distract him.

They've also explored the balcony together a bit (it's completely covered in chicken wire and cat netting) though Yoda is still tentative.
They've had snacks together sitting so close and Yoda tried to brush up against him, to which Charly just moved sideways a bit. Poor little baby he's such a lovey dovey cat and Charly is more like "excuse me no way"
They've been out all day together except two hours around lunchtime when I had a nap.

I guess the good thing is, when I come back from Germany I will have a full week off work left, so we can continue with long periods together before I have to return to work!

So do you think I should have them completely separate while I'm away? That will be so hard on Yoda being locked up again for 8 days although I do see your point. I would probably only stress about it the whole time I'm away :/

They've just gone to lie down again on the bed. Separated by mountains of blankets

Although it is good that Charly feels comfy enough to lie down first and close his eyes with Yoda walking around and he doesn't get scared when Yoda goes up to the bed too. It seems Charly is usually the one who wants to have a break first and Yoda just follows his lead.
And no, it's not a mirror lol. Charly is the one closer to me.
View attachment 404901

"Yeah so today I'm still at home (and will be for the next two days it seems). " - :/ I hope you get better soon.

"Basically I let out Yoda as soon as I woke up and he came for some cuddles." - Awwwwwwwwww

" Then he pounced on Charly twice like in the video where they were on the bed where he full on frog splash jumped on him." - Awwwww, did it look like he was being playful? I am guessing Yoda is feeling more comfortable playing with him. In the videos you can see his progression.

"Charly was very unhappy and looked (I think) defensive - aggressive. " - OK, understandable.

"Yoda did not take a hint and did it again, " - Hmmmm, Charly couldn't have been that serious then.

"Charly recoiled and was very vocal and kind of laid back all paws ready to strike." - Ok

" So I picked yoda up" - Ok, jsut be careful you don't get accidentally hurt.

"(he wasn't agitated)" - Great. Supports the play idea.

"and put him in his room 5 mins to cool off " - Ok, if you can just redirect him somewhere else that would be better.

"(I think he gets overstimulated from all the cuddles he demands sometimes)" - I am sure and he wants to play with his new brother.

" and let Charly relax. " - yes, they don't always like to let other cats relax when they want to play. :/

"I felt like had I not stepped in Charly may have really lashed out as Yoda wasn't listening, but chances are I'm over reacting a tad again." - You did exactly the right thing. I would have done the same.

"Either way, they were fine after." - Ok, and that is the most important thing. SO they are telling us it wasn't really an issue more of an annoyance.

"Charly is more chill today about Yoda sniffing him. He's mostly letting him sniff and they've touched noses a few times. " - Really? GREAT!!!

"There have been fewer hisses still today and they slept on the bed again but not as close together, but still. When Charly woke up and was grooming, Yoda walked up and sniffed him. Charly looked at him and eventually turned around but didn't hiss and Yoda just walked away again. Yoda also let him use the litterbox without any need for me to distract him." - WOW!!! GREAT!!!! Yep, they are just fine.

"They've also explored the balcony together a bit (it's completely covered in chicken wire and cat netting)" - Great

" though Yoda is still tentative." - Understandable

"They've had snacks together sitting so close and Yoda tried to brush up against him, to which Charly just moved sideways a bit. Poor little baby he's such a lovey dovey cat and Charly is more like "excuse me no way" " - Awwwwwwwwwww

"They've been out all day together except two hours around lunchtime when I had a nap." - Terrific

Sounds like Yoda pouncing was all play.

"I guess the good thing is, when I come back from Germany I will have a full week off work left, so we can continue with long periods together before I have to return to work!" - Great!!

"So do you think I should have them completely separate while I'm away? That will be so hard on Yoda being locked up again for 8 days although I do see your point. I would probably only stress about it the whole time I'm away :/ " - Let's think since we have a few days. But I am leaning that way.

"They've just gone to lie down again on the bed. Separated by mountains of blankets " - Awwwwwwwww, the pic is AMAZING!!!

"Although it is good that Charly feels comfy enough to lie down first and close his eyes with Yoda walking around and he doesn't get scared when Yoda goes up to the bed too. It seems Charly is usually the one who wants to have a break first and Yoda just follows his lead." - AGREED and PERFECT!!!

"And no, it's not a mirror lol. Charly is the one closer to me." - Awwwwwwww. SO ADORABLE!!!!!

Get well and GREAT JOB!!!

 

[noani]

Yoda wanting to get closer
Look how cute. He wants to be close to his bro so bad.
How adorbsies are they?!?! Yoda left Charly right. My heart
Charly is dream-twitching so sleeping quite deeply while Yoda is kinda just snoozing waiting for his bro to be ready to go again lol.
These two make up for fifth day of isolation and sick in bed on my birthday actually moments like these with them are like the best birthday present ever!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yoda wanting to get closer
Look how cute. He wants to be close to his bro so bad.
How adorbsies are they?!?! Yoda left Charly right. My heart
Charly is dream-twitching so sleeping quite deeply while Yoda is kinda just snoozing waiting for his bro to be ready to go again lol.
These two make up for fifth day of isolation and sick in bed on my birthday actually moments like these with them are like the best birthday present ever!

View attachment 404903

"He wants to be close to his bro so bad." - SO ADORABLE!!!

"How adorbsies are they?!?! Yoda left Charly right. My heart " - OFF THE CHART!!! Words can't describe!!!

"Charly is dream-twitching so sleeping quite deeply while Yoda is kinda just snoozing waiting for his bro to be ready to go again lol." - wwwww, Total trust.

"These two make up for fifth day of isolation and sick in bed on my birthday actually moments like these with them are like the best birthday present ever! " - Awwwww, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! The GREATEST gift of all. PURE LOVE!!

 

[noani]

I'm over the moon..they've been together all day except my nap and overall are coming along nicely.
Charly (on my lap) joined us this time after dinner:

And now my little helpers have set up camp under the table where I paint. They were chasing and playing (didn't have to intervene much just called yoda's name once or twice and a bit of individual play for both so they can hunt some feathery / plushy prey to the max).

Charly is on left on his favourite chair and Yoda just followed him under there and took up residence next to him on the other two. I didn't even hear them, I thought they were still playing hide and seek behind the curtain and under the table and then I found them like this so they must have laid down without fussing too much about proximity (Charly). I was at the table, so I would have heard hisses or growls. Besides the frog splash hisses this morning, there have been few "discussions". Charly doesn't hiss (much) anymore when Yoda walks past him or comes close or sniffs him. He allows it now. He'll sometimes still give him a whack on his head but Yoda doesn't seem to mind.

Thank you thank you thank you for all the support from all who have commented here and in my other threads!

 

[noani]

So far today, Yoda seems to seriously be considering a career in professional wrestling. He'll insist on frog splash jumping Charly and it's harder to distract with his name, but he will be distracted by his feather. I guess overall, I have to increase their individual play sessions even more to get all their teenage boy energy out.

Now sometimes Charly jumps away, swats hisses or growls, other times he just rolls over and paws back and then chases Yoda and waits for him in the table. So he seems to enjoy it to a certain degree. They also take turns (somewhat, but much less frequent) with Yoda being on the floor rolled over and Charly pawing at him.

It's hard to get videos of that cause they zoom back and forth so fast. They ate together again though and Charly doesn't seem particularly stressed. Just swats him occasionally and sometimes hisses.

Is there a risk if I don't intervene at the right times that Charly will lose trust in yoda if he keeps playing so rough and when Charly doesn't like it and yoda doesn't back off on his own?
Sometimes I call their names when it looks like it's getting rough and they both just look at me like "and what do YOU want" and go back to playing. And then I feel bad other times charly sounds so stressed to me but then goes right back to playing. Example: they got rough, Yoda was mock biting the air while Charly was down pawing at him. Called Yoda away with his feather and Charly jumped on bed next to him and both played with the same toy. Yoda jumped up on the bed after the feather twice and once landed on Charly but he didn't even flinch much.

There are some hisses still and there was a growl earlier I think.
I'll try and get some videos but they are just like two bolts of lighting playing tag, hide and seek and generally running around like two crazed maniacs a lot...

Just don't want to risk ruining something if I don't intervene at the right times, or maybe it's too much too fast for Charly. Maybe the whole day with separate nap break and separate play times is too much even tho they don't get into real fights?

 

[noani]

Granted, without my intervention they eventually end up like this (this morning, after which I just went to have a nap and felt comfortable having them both out while sleeping. Charly joined us on the bed and we all had a great old nap). When Charly woke up he climbed on my side as he usually does to make biscuits for a bit. Yoda came a bit too close and he gave a hiss and Yoda laid down and they both went back to sleep.

Or this just now while I was minding my business in the bathroom and I could hear them pawing and playing but didn't go to investigate too much.

So I'm guessing not that bad overall.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I'm over the moon..they've been together all day except my nap and overall are coming along nicely.
Charly (on my lap) joined us this time after dinner:View attachment 404929
And now my little helpers have set up camp under the table where I paint. They were chasing and playing (didn't have to intervene much just called yoda's name once or twice and a bit of individual play for both so they can hunt some feathery / plushy prey to the max).

Charly is on left on his favourite chair and Yoda just followed him under there and took up residence next to him on the other two. I didn't even hear them, I thought they were still playing hide and seek behind the curtain and under the table and then I found them like this so they must have laid down without fussing too much about proximity (Charly). I was at the table, so I would have heard hisses or growls. Besides the frog splash hisses this morning, there have been few "discussions". Charly doesn't hiss (much) anymore when Yoda walks past him or comes close or sniffs him. He allows it now. He'll sometimes still give him a whack on his head but Yoda doesn't seem to mind.
View attachment 404930

Thank you thank you thank you for all the support from all who have commented here and in my other threads!

I am so sorry for the delayed response.

"I'm over the moon..they've been together all day except my nap and overall are coming along nicely.
Charly (on my lap) joined us this time after dinner: " - Fantastic. The pictures are AMAZING!!!

"And now my little helpers have set up camp under the table where I paint." - That is a fantastic picture!!

"They were chasing and playing (didn't have to intervene much just called yoda's name once or twice and a bit of individual play for both so they can hunt some feathery / plushy prey to the max)." - Perfect

"Charly is on left on his favourite chair and Yoda just followed him under there and took up residence next to him on the other two." - AMAZING!!!

" I didn't even hear them, I thought they were still playing hide and seek behind the curtain and under the table and then I found them like this so they must have laid down without fussing too much about proximity (Charly). I was at the table, so I would have heard hisses or growls. " - Terrific!!

"Besides the frog splash hisses this morning, there have been few "discussions". Charly doesn't hiss (much) anymore when Yoda walks past him or comes close or sniffs him. He allows it now. He'll sometimes still give him a whack on his head but Yoda doesn't seem to mind. " - Awwwwww. I am thinking more and more that the whacks are his way of starting play.

"So far today, Yoda seems to seriously be considering a career in professional wrestling. He'll insist on frog splash jumping Charly and it's harder to distract with his name, but he will be distracted by his feather. I guess overall, I have to increase their individual play sessions even more to get all their teenage boy energy out." -Ok. Well, Yoda is more comfortable starting play with Charly (positive). You can increase play as well. Have does Charly act after the "frog splash"?

"Now sometimes Charly jumps away, swats hisses or growls, other times he just rolls over and paws back and then chases Yoda and waits for him in the table. So he seems to enjoy it to a certain degree." - Yep, he knows Yoda is initiating play it sounds.

" They also take turns (somewhat, but much less frequent) with Yoda being on the floor rolled over and Charly pawing at him." -Awwwwwww

"It's hard to get videos of that cause they zoom back and forth so fast. " - Yes

"They ate together again though and Charly doesn't seem particularly stressed. Just swats him occasionally and sometimes hisses." - Great. IF it was an issue you would see it in Charly. I am not reading anything to suggest it is an issue.

"Is there a risk if I don't intervene at the right times that Charly will lose trust in yoda if he keeps playing so rough and when Charly doesn't like it and yoda doesn't back off on his own?" - Well, yes some risk but small unless it would be multiple times with changes in Charly's behavior for each of them. I think it is a very small risk. BUT I would distract at times for now. Keep doing what you are doing as it is working.

"Sometimes I call their names when it looks like it's getting rough and they both just look at me like "and what do YOU want" and go back to playing." - Exactly. And always watch hw they act after

" And then I feel bad " - It is ok

" other times charly sounds so stressed to me but then goes right back to playing. " - Ok, then he is probably not stressed as you think.

"Example: they got rough, Yoda was mock biting the air while Charly was down pawing at him. Called Yoda away with his feather and Charly jumped on bed next to him and both played with the same toy. Yoda jumped up on the bed after the feather twice and once landed on Charly but he didn't even flinch much." - Exactly. That tells me it was not an issue.

"There are some hisses still and there was a growl earlier I think." - Just communication. Watch for changes in behavior (negative changes"

"I'll try and get some videos but they are just like two bolts of lighting playing tag, hide and seek and generally running around like two crazed maniacs a lot..." - Hahahaha, yep , boys having fun

"Just don't want to risk ruining something if I don't intervene at the right times, or maybe it's too much too fast for Charly. " - You are doing great. If there is a risk you will see it and have plenty of time to work on it.

"Maybe the whole day with separate nap break and separate play times is too much even tho they don't get into real fights? " - Seems like they are loving it. I would not change a thing.

"Granted, without my intervention they eventually end up like this (this morning, after which I just went to have a nap and felt comfortable having them both out while sleeping. Charly joined us on the bed and we all had a great old nap). When Charly woke up he climbed on my side as he usually does to make biscuits for a bit. Yoda came a bit too close and he gave a hiss and Yoda laid down and they both went back to sleep." - And that tells us all that before is just play. IF there were issues this would not be happening.

That picture is ADORABLE!!!

And the next picture is PERFECT!!!

That is how you can tell if the stuff prior is an issue or not. If they are hanging out like that, all is well.

 

[noani]

A couple videos from tonight:
Yoda is the one on the bed at the start, then jumps down to Charly, then Charly jumps up first.
Yoda is pouncing more and trying to bite it looks like. Charly will chase him too and both are distractible with toys. I can't read them though. Is this rough play or more? Charly sounds distressed when it gets like this but then they play with the same toy.. so I don't know. Yoda won't be distracted by his name but with the feather toy it's fine.
He would not stop though. He kept going again and again. Every time he saw Charly he wanted to go again. I tried to wear him out with the toy. A friend of mine which both know was over earlier and Charly was a bit fussy (he gets like that with visitors but he did also lie down on her so he's just extra sometimes I guess?).

Anyway here is the video of them and then me freaking out a bit and then the feather. Charly went to the kitchen and laid down at some point.

Right after I ended the video, I fed them dinner which is a short which can't be embedded....
rough play (?) and dinner (1)
And they ate peacefully. Five minutes later, Yoda was lurking for Charly again and they went again and again. Besides the Rolling around and Charly vocalising (whatever he is vocalising, I can't interpret correctly), they also get into their swatting matches (Charly no longer vocalizes during those for the most part). Lots of chasing leading up to rolling around too (from both sides).

Is this rough play? Is it more? Charly was so fired up at some point he latched on to the slipper I was wearing when I stepped into the bathroom (he does that sometimes but never this hard). Nothing happened, they're thick slippers, but that was a first.

I ended up putting Yoda in his room for the night as it's late anyway and I need to sleep soon. I can't possibly distract them for hours anyway. Yoda won't be tired out sometimes and he won't stop while Charly looks like he may as well lie down or play if I pick up a toy, whatever. Not very bothered either way I guess? While Yoda will go crazy about the feather. It reminds me of when Charly was a little kitten and the energy! I've played so much with yoda today and even tonight my friend and I played with him for quite some time. I can't possibly distract Yoda for hours though so not sure how to handle it. I guess first it would be great to understand the dynamic between them in the video as to me as a concerned cat mom it looks like horrible fighting and Charly sounds so distressed to me but then keeping in mind what you've taught me that may not be the case?
For now Yoda is in his room (quiet so probably calmed down and sleeping) and Charly has laid down to nap on the bed.

I don't know what to do about yoda's outbursts which seem like endless energy explosions, much like a young kitten. Could it be because of the novelty and the liberation from 3 months isolation? His character? Something else I'm missing related to the dynamic between them?

It looks like either Charly doesn't hate it as much as I think and it's rough play, or Yoda isn't getting the message to calm down a bit. Not sure which is the case though. Maybe you can tell from the videos.
If it's rough play still, it's definitely getting rougher.

The first one is a bit long but I wanted to get some of how they continue acting after the rolling around on it too. Then the dinner and then basically Yoda went on bed lurking and chased Charly as soon as he came out of the kitchen from eating and they chased and rolled some more and I led Yoda into his room.

 

[noani]

Found one video of a swatting match that occured before the other two videos :

And another example of Yoda going on when Charly seems to just want to chill (not long after the swatting match and before the rolling around video). Starting to think he may be going into the paper bag to catch a break more than play sometimes. Sometimes he'll come charging out and chase Yoda if he doesn't come to interact but sometimes (like here) he doesn't and may actually be trying to hide a bit? Although he does come out eventually. To which Yoda just charges again now.

 

[noani]

I'm so sorry about the triple post, but early this morning and later this morning has brought up many doubts for me.



So early this morning:

Charly doesn't hiss before the frog splash anymore - does that mean he allows it now? Cause before he would hiss and swat as if to warn him. He lets Yoda come up very close and touch him without hissing or swatting a lot now when he comes out of his room and Yoda gets his cuddles from me, so for a couple minutes they are very close and all is peaceful.



Then one pawed and Yoda jumped in, charly did vcoalize as they were rolling around and it looked like some biting, he hissed and Yoda didn't back up. Was also hard to distract with feather. So I picked him up carefully when they stopped for a sec and put him in his room.



This was still happening again and again, after like a half an hour at least of playing with him. As soon as he was no longer entertained by the feather, it was mission Charly. So I continued. Charly walked around a bit and then went up to the white thing and chilled and watched while I played with Yoda. Then Yoda finally seemed a bit less hyper after playing but as soon as I stopped, Charly jumped down and followed him and they got into it again. And wouldn't stop so I separated (Yoda back to his room). Granted Charly is acting normal now and even when Yoda came out initially he didn't hiss or growl or swat. He also doesn't give those "warning swats" and hisses like before when Yoda comes close.



They haven't hurt each other (at least, nothing that I can see or feel on them) so that seems good. It's not like there's fur flying or blood, but it's getting rougher and rougher the more confident and frankly PITA hyper Yoda gets.



Same thing later this morning. It's making me very nervous not knowing what is going on here dynamic wise and I'm tentative now about having them out together.



Should I let it play out and see how far it goes? If Charly will whack him good or maybe something else to make him stop if that's what he even wants?


Right after I break it up, if Yoda is distracted by feather, Charly will walk around a bit, he will still turn his back to him. He doesn't seem to be scared of him or generally act aggressively I guess. If yoda doesn't go straight in again, Charly will walk around somewhat normally.

 

[calicosrspecial]

A couple videos from tonight:
Yoda is the one on the bed at the start, then jumps down to Charly, then Charly jumps up first.
Yoda is pouncing more and trying to bite it looks like. Charly will chase him too and both are distractible with toys. I can't read them though. Is this rough play or more? Charly sounds distressed when it gets like this but then they play with the same toy.. so I don't know. Yoda won't be distracted by his name but with the feather toy it's fine.
He would not stop though. He kept going again and again. Every time he saw Charly he wanted to go again. I tried to wear him out with the toy. A friend of mine which both know was over earlier and Charly was a bit fussy (he gets like that with visitors but he did also lie down on her so he's just extra sometimes I guess?).

Anyway here is the video of them and then me freaking out a bit and then the feather. Charly went to the kitchen and laid down at some point.

Right after I ended the video, I fed them dinner which is a short which can't be embedded....
rough play (?) and dinner (1)
And they ate peacefully. Five minutes later, Yoda was lurking for Charly again and they went again and again. Besides the Rolling around and Charly vocalising (whatever he is vocalising, I can't interpret correctly), they also get into their swatting matches (Charly no longer vocalizes during those for the most part). Lots of chasing leading up to rolling around too (from both sides).

Is this rough play? Is it more? Charly was so fired up at some point he latched on to the slipper I was wearing when I stepped into the bathroom (he does that sometimes but never this hard). Nothing happened, they're thick slippers, but that was a first.

I ended up putting Yoda in his room for the night as it's late anyway and I need to sleep soon. I can't possibly distract them for hours anyway. Yoda won't be tired out sometimes and he won't stop while Charly looks like he may as well lie down or play if I pick up a toy, whatever. Not very bothered either way I guess? While Yoda will go crazy about the feather. It reminds me of when Charly was a little kitten and the energy! I've played so much with yoda today and even tonight my friend and I played with him for quite some time. I can't possibly distract Yoda for hours though so not sure how to handle it. I guess first it would be great to understand the dynamic between them in the video as to me as a concerned cat mom it looks like horrible fighting and Charly sounds so distressed to me but then keeping in mind what you've taught me that may not be the case?
For now Yoda is in his room (quiet so probably calmed down and sleeping) and Charly has laid down to nap on the bed.

I don't know what to do about yoda's outbursts which seem like endless energy explosions, much like a young kitten. Could it be because of the novelty and the liberation from 3 months isolation? His character? Something else I'm missing related to the dynamic between them?

It looks like either Charly doesn't hate it as much as I think and it's rough play, or Yoda isn't getting the message to calm down a bit. Not sure which is the case though. Maybe you can tell from the videos.
If it's rough play still, it's definitely getting rougher.

The first one is a bit long but I wanted to get some of how they continue acting after the rolling around on it too. Then the dinner and then basically Yoda went on bed lurking and chased Charly as soon as he came out of the kitchen from eating and they chased and rolled some more and I led Yoda into his room.

"A couple videos from tonight:
Yoda is the one on the bed at the start, then jumps down to Charly, then Charly jumps up first.
Yoda is pouncing more and trying to bite it looks like. Charly will chase him too and both are distractible with toys. I can't read them though. Is this rough play or more?" - Ok, I will take a look.

" Charly sounds distressed when it gets like this but then they play with the same toy.. so I don't know. Yoda won't be distracted by his name but with the feather toy it's fine." - Ok

"He would not stop though. He kept going again and again. Every time he saw Charly he wanted to go again. I tried to wear him out with the toy. " - Ok

"A friend of mine which both know was over earlier and Charly was a bit fussy (he gets like that with visitors but he did also lie down on her so he's just extra sometimes I guess?)." - That doesn't sound concerning. Just have your guest act normal around him, don't try to interact, etc. Let the cat initiate interaction.

"Anyway here is the video of them and then me freaking out a bit and then the feather. Charly went to the kitchen and laid down at some point. " - OK

Video - Ok, starts off play, then really rough play, then you say stop and they do. GREAT!!! Supports the rough play thesis. Yoda starts playing and Charly is in the same position and is watching. Again tells me all before is rough play. Charly moves and lays down and again body language tells me all before was all rough play. Yoda is playing, jumping and Charly is watching. Good body language. Again, shows me he trusts Yoda. Then Charly pounces for the toy and Yoda doesn't flinch. Again, 2 signs of trust and all before was rough play. Oh, did Charly go for a treat? He looks like he is chewing. They are a foot apart and all is well. If any of the stuff before was fighting there is no way they would be acting like this. Charly is playing with the string of the toy. Charly paws to try to get Yoda to play then Yoda goes for the toy (good job using the toy). Charly doesn't flinch again a sign of trust. Charly loves the string of the toy. Together, all is fine. Then Yoda makes a sudden movement and Charly doesn't flinch. Again, a sign of trust. Now Charly is playing. Great. Back to Yoda. Then toy goes to Yoda and Charly is great, body language is great. Charly gets up, facing away from Yoda, Yoda is moving around playing and Charly doesn't flinch again a big sign of trust. Yoda stays on the bed. This was a very telling video and all is fine. The wild part at the beginning was rough play and you handled it extremely well. GREAT JOB!!

"Right after I ended the video, I fed them dinner which is a short which can't be embedded....
rough play (?) and dinner (1) " - This video is PERFECT!!! Anything before this was not an issue.

"And they ate peacefully." - Yes, great

" Five minutes later, Yoda was lurking for Charly again and they went again and again. Besides the Rolling around and Charly vocalising (whatever he is vocalising, I can't interpret correctly), they also get into their swatting matches (Charly no longer vocalizes during those for the most part). Lots of chasing leading up to rolling around too (from both sides)." - Ok. If it was like the video is was fine. The key is if they look away from each other and how they act after.

"Is this rough play? Is it more? " - If like the video rough play.

"Charly was so fired up at some point he latched on to the slipper I was wearing when I stepped into the bathroom (he does that sometimes but never this hard). Nothing happened, they're thick slippers, but that was a first." - Yes, they can get amp'd up really easily. Slippers can be viewed as toys. :/

"I ended up putting Yoda in his room for the night as it's late anyway and I need to sleep soon. I can't possibly distract them for hours anyway." - Ok and yes

" Yoda won't be tired out sometimes and he won't stop while Charly looks like he may as well lie down or play if I pick up a toy, whatever." - Yep. We are seeing Yoda feel really comfortable now and enjoying his brother. :/

"Not very bothered either way I guess? While Yoda will go crazy about the feather. It reminds me of when Charly was a little kitten and the energy! I've played so much with yoda today and even tonight my friend and I played with him for quite some time. I can't possibly distract Yoda for hours though so not sure how to handle it. " - Yep, they are enjoying their new playmates and are young and full of energy.

"I guess first it would be great to understand the dynamic between them in the video as to me as a concerned cat mom it looks like horrible fighting and Charly sounds so distressed to me but then keeping in mind what you've taught me that may not be the case?" - Hopefully my analysis of the video above helps that.

"For now Yoda is in his room (quiet so probably calmed down and sleeping) and Charly has laid down to nap on the bed." - ok, great

"I don't know what to do about yoda's outbursts which seem like endless energy explosions, much like a young kitten." - I know, it is very hard to keep a happy cat quiet. :/

" Could it be because of the novelty and the liberation from 3 months isolation? His character? " - Yes and probably yes. He has this great life, this great fun brother, and he is enjoying it. Shows me he is one really happy cat.

"Something else I'm missing related to the dynamic between them?" - I don't think so. I think they love and trust each other.

"It looks like either Charly doesn't hate it as much as I think and it's rough play," - Agreed

" or Yoda isn't getting the message to calm down a bit." - well, Charly is not exactly telling Yoda that he is annoyed so.........................

" Not sure which is the case though. Maybe you can tell from the videos." - I think they love and trust each other though it does get a bit too rough. Was Yoda rough outside?

"If it's rough play still, it's definitely getting rougher." - Yes because Yoda is feeling more secure and trusts that Charly is not going to attack him, hurt him, etc. Yoda has no real fear of Charly anymore. Charly has little fear of Yoda now.

"The first one is a bit long but I wanted to get some of how they continue acting after the rolling around on it too. Then the dinner and then basically Yoda went on bed lurking and chased Charly as soon as he came out of the kitchen from eating and they chased and rolled some more and I led Yoda into his room. " - Ok, this is the video I already watched, correct

Swatting match before the other video video - So gets a bit wild, then Yoda? lies down then they go back at it. I think this swatting is a part of Charly's lack of socialization. I would step in and calm it but so far it is not causing issues.

"And another example of Yoda going on when Charly seems to just want to chill (not long after the swatting match and before the rolling around video)." - Ok

" Starting to think he may be going into the paper bag to catch a break more than play sometimes." - Hmmmmm, to this point I think going into bags is all play but I will see when I view this video.

" Sometimes he'll come charging out and chase Yoda if he doesn't come to interact" - Exactly, that is play.

" but sometimes (like here) he doesn't and may actually be trying to hide a bit?" - Hmmmmm, ok let's see

" Although he does come out eventually. To which Yoda just charges again now." - Ok

Yoda going in Video - Charly does not look scared to me. That is all play.

"I'm so sorry about the triple post, but early this morning and later this morning has brought up many doubts for me." - That is ok, I am totally fine.



So early this morning:

"Charly doesn't hiss before the frog splash anymore - does that mean he allows it now?" - He doesn't see it as a threat it seems.

" Cause before he would hiss and swat as if to warn him." - Exactly

" He lets Yoda come up very close and touch him without hissing or swatting a lot now when he comes out of his room and Yoda gets his cuddles from me, so for a couple minutes they are very close and all is peaceful." - Awwwwwwwwwww



"Then one pawed and Yoda jumped in, charly did vcoalize as they were rolling around and it looked like some biting, he hissed and Yoda didn't back up." - Ok

" Was also hard to distract with feather." - Hmmmmmmm

" So I picked him up carefully when they stopped for a sec and put him in his room." - Ok, just be careful doing that when they are excited like that.



"This was still happening again and again, after like a half an hour at least of playing with him. As soon as he was no longer entertained by the feather, it was mission Charly." - Yep, because cats are more fun. :/

" So I continued. Charly walked around a bit and then went up to the white thing and chilled and watched while I played with Yoda." - Ok, sounds good

" Then Yoda finally seemed a bit less hyper after playing but as soon as I stopped, Charly jumped down and followed him and they got into it again." - Charly followed him? S I guess he wanted to play...................

" And wouldn't stop so I separated (Yoda back to his room)." - Ok

" Granted Charly is acting normal now and even when Yoda came out initially he didn't hiss or growl or swat. He also doesn't give those "warning swats" and hisses like before when Yoda comes close." - Yes, suggest Charly is ok with this.



"They haven't hurt each other (at least, nothing that I can see or feel on them) so that seems good. It's not like there's fur flying or blood, but it's getting rougher and rougher the more confident and frankly PITA hyper Yoda gets." - Yep :/



"Same thing later this morning." - Yep. It is like playing with a new present. :/

" It's making me very nervous not knowing what is going on here dynamic wise" - Ok, hopefully the above commentary helps. They are just enjoying the company. I agree, it gets a bit rough for my liking but they seem to be fine with it. :/

"and I'm tentative now about having them out together." - They can be out together with supervision.



"Should I let it play out and see how far it goes?" - DO what you have been doing. So if it seems to wild call their names, or boys or stop.

"If Charly will whack him good or maybe something else to make him stop if that's what he even wants?" - Exactly, I am not sure Charly wants the play to stop. :/


"Right after I break it up, if Yoda is distracted by feather, Charly will walk around a bit, he will still turn his back to him. He doesn't seem to be scared of him or generally act aggressively I guess. If yoda doesn't go straight in again, Charly will walk around somewhat normally. " - Exactly, I don't see fear from Charly or mistrust at all. The only time is when Yoda is on top of him in the first part of the first video and that "fear" was pretty mild and of course it stopped so it built trust.

Does that answers your questions and address your concerns? I think they are just fun lovin' boys. :/ Too rough for our liking but fine for them for the most part. :/

I would keep doing exactly what you are doing. I do think your partner is going to have their hands full when you are gone. :/ But maybe you being go will depress them somewhat.

 

[noani]

Thank you!
Today has been ups and downs - I've been stressed with still being sick, trying to pack and done another COVID test to be safe for flying tomorrow. I've had them out as much as possible. We also had another peaceful nap together, except when we woke up Yoda jumped Charly and he reacted much like in the video. They are always fine after though.

It's happened a few more times during the day. If I distract Yoda long enough with the feather then charly will usually go lie down and Yoda will usually respect that. If Charly is still moving or up and about, it's open season as far as yoda is concerned.

Less swatting today, less hissing. Only when they roll around and "play fight". They act like in the video after so not so concerned anymore. Charly will also go and turn his back on him immediately without fear and lie down and close his eyes in front of him if he's playing with the feather.

So it's interesting, I'll see how the roughhousing develops over time while supervising and distracting when it gets too much. Sometimes I think maybe Charly is just a bit dramatic because as soon as I distract them they both look at me, and if Yoda then goes to his feather Charly is completely fine. He also eats and uses the litterbox without problems now when Yoda is around and even if Yoda comes up to him to sniff while he's in there he doesn't swat or hiss anymore. He generally let's him get very close now without hissing or swatting when they are passing each other by or walking around together.
If he isn't telling Yoda to calm down and stop though, what are those vocalisations about? Because sometimes it sounds like SUCH distress to me, but then he is fine right after. Just hearing it my partner also commented you'd think yoda was killing him, but then I called yodas name and they stopped and Yoda looked at us. Charly kept looking at Yoda but then I moved the toy and they both latched on to that. So why is he being so growly screamy idk vocal?

Sometimes he'll whack him a little still but it's when he's looking at a toy, a treat, or trying to chill and Yoda keeps coming up to him cooing for attention.

About the swatting matches then, so that's something separate from the rough play and more about lack of socialization you think? So basically when it happens I should try to redirect always? With roughhousing I'm trying to find the balancing between them testing their limits and keeping it reasonable for my nerves so sometimes it goes a little longer than in the vid.
There haven't been any swatting matches today but if it's a lack of socialization, is it more like "fighting" then and how should I address it besides redirecting? And what would you interpret the dynamic there to be, why it happens, what the intent is, what's going on in their little kitty heads?

I'm not sure about Yoda outside. He was very docile with me from a very young age and with most of the colony, some especially. They would always sleep together, cuddle. He did play very rough with his litter mate and his mom as a kitten, although as he got older I've seen less of that outside, but he wasn't neutered until I caught him when he was wounded so he would usually roam quite a bit.

I was thinking about when I'm away too. It could go either way: he could have his hands very full given that Yoda may be MORE energetic now when he's back in isolation for most of the day for 8 days. Or he may be less bold because while he knows my partner, it's not the same relationship he has with me of course living here. Especially this last month my partner hasn't been here much because of family things and because he works in another city so.. he was a bit more tentative tonight. Although I suspect he'll get over that as quickly as he got over his tentativeness around Charly

In any Case, we've talked about plan a, b and c. Plan a would be when he comes here for the cats, to let both out and give Yoda cuddles and Charly some treats and then get Yoda into feather right away. Charly may join with the same or another toy or not. If not he'll play individually with Charly too and then they'll eat together. After water top ups and litter box care he'll see how they go. If Yoda wants to play more, if they want to hang out a bit. We've left the gates up because it makes for easier quick separation if necessary. We've agreed that it shouldn't be too long tho. Just some cuddles, some playing with the toy which distracts him super well and food together and then probably separate. We'll be in touch by phone or video call while he's there so we can adjust as we go.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you!
Today has been ups and downs - I've been stressed with still being sick, trying to pack and done another COVID test to be safe for flying tomorrow. I've had them out as much as possible. We also had another peaceful nap together, except when we woke up Yoda jumped Charly and he reacted much like in the video. They are always fine after though.

It's happened a few more times during the day. If I distract Yoda long enough with the feather then charly will usually go lie down and Yoda will usually respect that. If Charly is still moving or up and about, it's open season as far as yoda is concerned.

Less swatting today, less hissing. Only when they roll around and "play fight". They act like in the video after so not so concerned anymore. Charly will also go and turn his back on him immediately without fear and lie down and close his eyes in front of him if he's playing with the feather.

So it's interesting, I'll see how the roughhousing develops over time while supervising and distracting when it gets too much. Sometimes I think maybe Charly is just a bit dramatic because as soon as I distract them they both look at me, and if Yoda then goes to his feather Charly is completely fine. He also eats and uses the litterbox without problems now when Yoda is around and even if Yoda comes up to him to sniff while he's in there he doesn't swat or hiss anymore. He generally let's him get very close now without hissing or swatting when they are passing each other by or walking around together.
If he isn't telling Yoda to calm down and stop though, what are those vocalisations about? Because sometimes it sounds like SUCH distress to me, but then he is fine right after. Just hearing it my partner also commented you'd think yoda was killing him, but then I called yodas name and they stopped and Yoda looked at us. Charly kept looking at Yoda but then I moved the toy and they both latched on to that. So why is he being so growly screamy idk vocal?

Sometimes he'll whack him a little still but it's when he's looking at a toy, a treat, or trying to chill and Yoda keeps coming up to him cooing for attention.

About the swatting matches then, so that's something separate from the rough play and more about lack of socialization you think? So basically when it happens I should try to redirect always? With roughhousing I'm trying to find the balancing between them testing their limits and keeping it reasonable for my nerves so sometimes it goes a little longer than in the vid.
There haven't been any swatting matches today but if it's a lack of socialization, is it more like "fighting" then and how should I address it besides redirecting? And what would you interpret the dynamic there to be, why it happens, what the intent is, what's going on in their little kitty heads?

I'm not sure about Yoda outside. He was very docile with me from a very young age and with most of the colony, some especially. They would always sleep together, cuddle. He did play very rough with his litter mate and his mom as a kitten, although as he got older I've seen less of that outside, but he wasn't neutered until I caught him when he was wounded so he would usually roam quite a bit.

I was thinking about when I'm away too. It could go either way: he could have his hands very full given that Yoda may be MORE energetic now when he's back in isolation for most of the day for 8 days. Or he may be less bold because while he knows my partner, it's not the same relationship he has with me of course living here. Especially this last month my partner hasn't been here much because of family things and because he works in another city so.. he was a bit more tentative tonight. Although I suspect he'll get over that as quickly as he got over his tentativeness around Charly

In any Case, we've talked about plan a, b and c. Plan a would be when he comes here for the cats, to let both out and give Yoda cuddles and Charly some treats and then get Yoda into feather right away. Charly may join with the same or another toy or not. If not he'll play individually with Charly too and then they'll eat together. After water top ups and litter box care he'll see how they go. If Yoda wants to play more, if they want to hang out a bit. We've left the gates up because it makes for easier quick separation if necessary. We've agreed that it shouldn't be too long tho. Just some cuddles, some playing with the toy which distracts him super well and food together and then probably separate. We'll be in touch by phone or video call while he's there so we can adjust as we go.

"Today has been ups and downs - I've been stressed with still being sick, trying to pack and done another COVID test to be safe for flying tomorrow." - Ok

" I've had them out as much as possible. We also had another peaceful nap together, except when we woke up Yoda jumped Charly and he reacted much like in the video. They are always fine after though." - Ok, that is Yoda playing then.

"It's happened a few more times during the day. If I distract Yoda long enough with the feather then charly will usually go lie down and Yoda will usually respect that. If Charly is still moving or up and about, it's open season as far as yoda is concerned." - Yep, normal.

"Less swatting today, less hissing. Only when they roll around and "play fight". They act like in the video after so not so concerned anymore. Charly will also go and turn his back on him immediately without fear and lie down and close his eyes in front of him if he's playing with the feather." - Great, everything there tells me it is all play.

"So it's interesting, I'll see how the roughhousing develops over time while supervising and distracting when it gets too much." - Great

" Sometimes I think maybe Charly is just a bit dramatic because as soon as I distract them they both look at me, and if Yoda then goes to his feather Charly is completely fine." - Well, probably to some degree but also I think there is a touch of concern there. He trusts Yoda but not yet totally. BUT Charly is dong great.

" He also eats and uses the litterbox without problems now when Yoda is around and even if Yoda comes up to him to sniff while he's in there he doesn't swat or hiss anymore. He generally let's him get very close now without hissing or swatting when they are passing each other by or walking around together." - Perfect, more great signs.

"If he isn't telling Yoda to calm down and stop though, what are those vocalisations about?" - When they are rolling about?

" Because sometimes it sounds like SUCH distress to me, but then he is fine right after." - I think it is a panic, like "don't hurt me".

" Just hearing it my partner also commented you'd think yoda was killing him, but then I called yodas name and they stopped and Yoda looked at us." - Yes. But what they think is what is important. I don't think Yoda is a killer, he loves Charly.

"Charly kept looking at Yoda but then I moved the toy and they both latched on to that. So why is he being so growly screamy idk vocal?" - That is just him.

"Sometimes he'll whack him a little still but it's when he's looking at a toy, a treat, or trying to chill and Yoda keeps coming up to him cooing for attention." - Yes so that is probably don't bother me THOUGH I do see Charly whack him to play as well.

"About the swatting matches then, so that's something separate from the rough play and more about lack of socialization you think?" - Well, I think a combo. Charly uses swats to tell Yoda, no, to start play (lack of social skills), it is fun (rough play).

" So basically when it happens I should try to redirect always?" - I would. I don't like swatting so I like to get them out of that if possible.

" With roughhousing I'm trying to find the balancing between them testing their limits and keeping it reasonable for my nerves so sometimes it goes a little longer than in the vid." - Exactly, that is the art of it.

"There haven't been any swatting matches today" - Great

" but if it's a lack of socialization, is it more like "fighting" then and how should I address it besides redirecting?" - No, it is not fighting. His way of playing or starting play in my opinion. I would just redirect, distract, etc. Yoda has learned that is a way to play. It could have a touch of defensiveness at times as well.

" And what would you interpret the dynamic there to be, why it happens, what the intent is, what's going on in their little kitty heads?" - Depends on the context but sometimes it is defensive, sometimes it is too play, sometimes it is too initiate play. IF it is bad you will see it n how they interact after (negative change) and so far we do not see that.

"I'm not sure about Yoda outside. He was very docile with me from a very young age and with most of the colony, some especially. They would always sleep together, cuddle. " - Ok, he is a great cat

"He did play very rough with his litter mate and his mom as a kitten, although as he got older I've seen less of that outside, but he wasn't neutered until I caught him when he was wounded so he would usually roam quite a bit." - Ok, so he does have a history of rough play. Makes total sense.

"I was thinking about when I'm away too. It could go either way: he could have his hands very full given that Yoda may be MORE energetic now when he's back in isolation for most of the day for 8 days. Or he may be less bold because while he knows my partner, it's not the same relationship he has with me of course living here. Especially this last month my partner hasn't been here much because of family things and because he works in another city so.. he was a bit more tentative tonight. Although I suspect he'll get over that as quickly as he got over his tentativeness around Charly " - Your partner was more tentative? Yes, it could either way. I could see the cats just sleeping a lot when you are gone. If you have time post and let me know which way it is going.

"In any Case, we've talked about plan a, b and c." - ok

" Plan a would be when he comes here for the cats, to let both out and give Yoda cuddles and Charly some treats and then get Yoda into feather right away. Charly may join with the same or another toy or not. If not he'll play individually with Charly too and then they'll eat together. After water top ups and litter box care he'll see how they go. If Yoda wants to play more, if they want to hang out a bit. We've left the gates up because it makes for easier quick separation if necessary. We've agreed that it shouldn't be too long tho. Just some cuddles, some playing with the toy which distracts him super well and food together and then probably separate. We'll be in touch by phone or video call while he's there so we can adjust as we go. " - Hmmmmmmm, ok. Not sure I am with you on Plan A. :/ I just don't know your partner and my number 1 goal is "Do no harm".

What is Plan B and Plan C?

 

[noani]

"It's happened a few more times during the day. If I distract Yoda long enough with the feather then charly will usually go lie down and Yoda will usually respect that. If Charly is still moving or up and about, it's open season as far as yoda is concerned." - Yep, normal.

Will that calm down do you think? I can't see myself doing this job full time of distracting Yoda 24/7 lol

" Sometimes I think maybe Charly is just a bit dramatic because as soon as I distract them they both look at me, and if Yoda then goes to his feather Charly is completely fine." - Well, probably to some degree but also I think there is a touch of concern there. He trusts Yoda but not yet totally. BUT Charly is dong great.

Yes so that's what worries me. So would we expect that to get better over time? Or worse as Yoda gets bolder and bolder?

"If he isn't telling Yoda to calm down and stop though, what are those vocalisations about?" - When they are rolling about?

Yep

" Because sometimes it sounds like SUCH distress to me, but then he is fine right after." - I think it is a panic, like "don't hurt me".

Exactly, he sounds so distressed and scared to me when that happens and I hate it even tho he is okay after but I'm worried that over time it will stress him out or, if Yoda gets even rougher, chip away at the progress.

" Just hearing it my partner also commented you'd think yoda was killing him, but then I called yodas name and they stopped and Yoda looked at us." - Yes. But what they think is what is important. I don't think Yoda is a killer, he loves Charly.

Oh yeah that was more a figure of speech, I have no worries of Yoda wanting to hurt him. Sometimes when he moves towards him kinda sideways with ears back as we've seen in some videos, I think isn't that supposed to be aggressive but I do think it's him playing.

"Charly kept looking at Yoda but then I moved the toy and they both latched on to that. So why is he being so growly screamy idk vocal?" - That is just him.

Him being scared in the moment? So what effect would we expect repeated moments of fear to have in the long run?

" So basically when it happens I should try to redirect always?" - I would. I don't like swatting so I like to get them out of that if possible.

By continuously redirecting, can they be trained out of it?

" With roughhousing I'm trying to find the balancing between them testing their limits and keeping it reasonable for my nerves so sometimes it goes a little longer than in the vid." - Exactly, that is the art of it.

So allow it a bit but not too much? Should I step in BEFORE Charly makes distressing sounds?

" but if it's a lack of socialization, is it more like "fighting" then and how should I address it besides redirecting?" - No, it is not fighting. His way of playing or starting play in my opinion. I would just redirect, distract, etc. Yoda has learned that is a way to play. It could have a touch of defensiveness at times as well.

Defensiveness from Charly? Or from Yoda?

" And what would you interpret the dynamic there to be, why it happens, what the intent is, what's going on in their little kitty heads?" - Depends on the context but sometimes it is defensive, sometimes it is too play, sometimes it is too initiate play. IF it is bad you will see it n how they interact after (negative change) and so far we do not see that.

What kind of warning signs should I be looking out for?

"He did play very rough with his litter mate and his mom as a kitten, although as he got older I've seen less of that outside, but he wasn't neutered until I caught him when he was wounded so he would usually roam quite a bit." - Ok, so he does have a history of rough play. Makes total sense.

He does also get a bit bitey when demanding affection (not hard and somewhat learning not to, but still happens).

"I was thinking about when I'm away too. It could go either way: he could have his hands very full given that Yoda may be MORE energetic now when he's back in isolation for most of the day for 8 days. Or he may be less bold because while he knows my partner, it's not the same relationship he has with me of course living here. Especially this last month my partner hasn't been here much because of family things and because he works in another city so.. he was a bit more tentative tonight. Although I suspect he'll get over that as quickly as he got over his tentativeness around Charly " - Your partner was more tentative? Yes, it could either way. I could see the cats just sleeping a lot when you are gone. If you have time post and let me know which way it is going.

Yoda was a tad more tentative but he'll get over that quickly Im guessing.

" Plan a would be when he comes here for the cats, to let both out and give Yoda cuddles and Charly some treats and then get Yoda into feather right away. Charly may join with the same or another toy or not. If not he'll play individually with Charly too and then they'll eat together. After water top ups and litter box care he'll see how they go. If Yoda wants to play more, if they want to hang out a bit. We've left the gates up because it makes for easier quick separation if necessary. We've agreed that it shouldn't be too long tho. Just some cuddles, some playing with the toy which distracts him super well and food together and then probably separate. We'll be in touch by phone or video call while he's there so we can adjust as we go. " - Hmmmmmmm, ok. Not sure I am with you on Plan A. :/ I just don't know your partner and my number 1 goal is "Do no harm".

What is Plan B and Plan C?

Im in two minds about it too, but I also don't want to stress my partner too much with "double work" if he can't feed them together and having to maneuver them around so they don't meet when he opens doors. I'm a bit anxious about it all now, and my partner was a bit... Not offended, but he was quite sure he could handle it and I didn't want to seem too ungrateful as he is going to be spending lots of time to go back and forth to take care of them from his place. I'll report back how it went when he updates me.

 

[noani]

I've just had the first update from him and apparently, Yoda just followed HIM around, not Charly Yoda went to sniff Charly and Charly allowed it no protest, verbal or otherwise. He kept it very short and gave them some treats and then separated them again and had them eat individually and played individually. I think this may be a nice compromise. They never get into rough play right away so if he keeps it short and sweet, I think it will be fine. Yoda when liberated from his room usually wants human cuddles first before he wants Charly so it may be a good middle ground.

We'll see how it goes the next days I suppose. I miss them so much already

 

[calicosrspecial]

Will that calm down do you think? I can't see myself doing this job full time of distracting Yoda 24/7 lol


Yes so that's what worries me. So would we expect that to get better over time? Or worse as Yoda gets bolder and bolder?



Yep



Exactly, he sounds so distressed and scared to me when that happens and I hate it even tho he is okay after but I'm worried that over time it will stress him out or, if Yoda gets even rougher, chip away at the progress.


Oh yeah that was more a figure of speech, I have no worries of Yoda wanting to hurt him. Sometimes when he moves towards him kinda sideways with ears back as we've seen in some videos, I think isn't that supposed to be aggressive but I do think it's him playing.


Him being scared in the moment? So what effect would we expect repeated moments of fear to have in the long run?



By continuously redirecting, can they be trained out of it?


So allow it a bit but not too much? Should I step in BEFORE Charly makes distressing sounds?



Defensiveness from Charly? Or from Yoda?


What kind of warning signs should I be looking out for?

He does also get a bit bitey when demanding affection (not hard and somewhat learning not to, but still happens).

Yoda was a tad more tentative but he'll get over that quickly Im guessing.



Im in two minds about it too, but I also don't want to stress my partner too much with "double work" if he can't feed them together and having to maneuver them around so they don't meet when he opens doors. I'm a bit anxious about it all now, and my partner was a bit... Not offended, but he was quite sure he could handle it and I didn't want to seem too ungrateful as he is going to be spending lots of time to go back and forth to take care of them from his place. I'll report back how it went when he updates me.

"Will that calm down do you think? I can't see myself doing this job full time of distracting Yoda 24/7 lol " - Eventually but Charly will have to take over your role. :/ They will be fine.

"Yes so that's what worries me. So would we expect that to get better over time? Or worse as Yoda gets bolder and bolder?" - I don't think you have to worry. It will get better over time (Charly is doing great so far). Yoda has no intention of hurting him so I am not at all worried.

"Exactly, he sounds so distressed and scared to me when that happens and I hate it even tho he is okay after but I'm worried that over time it will stress him out or, if Yoda gets even rougher, chip away at the progress." - I would be highly surprised if your fears were realized. I see no indication there are any issues. Charly is just that way (vocal). Every sign I see is that Charly trusts and enjoys Yoda. That is a lot that would have to be undone and would take a while to do.

"Oh yeah that was more a figure of speech, I have no worries of Yoda wanting to hurt him." - Yes and agreed

" Sometimes when he moves towards him kinda sideways with ears back as we've seen in some videos, I think isn't that supposed to be aggressive but I do think it's him playing." - It really depends. I haven't seen that I think but I would be highly confident in saying it is all play. And you can tell by how they act after. And during. And there is no sign of any issues.

"Him being scared in the moment?" - Well, I don't know about that situation but maybe for the split second there is fear. Or maybe that is just how he responds. What is important is what happens after that and how they act after it all (normal or not).

" So what effect would we expect repeated moments of fear to have in the long run?" - Oh my, it would have to be real fear that is realized. Which I would be surprised if we see. But IF it was realized fear it could be one time or many times. But we'll address that IF it ever happens. I am not at all worried about that.

"By continuously redirecting, can they be trained out of it?" - Yes and feel free to teach them "no".

"So allow it a bit but not too much? Should I step in BEFORE Charly makes distressing sounds?" - Great questions. Use your instincts, they are good. SO if you sense all is ok then let it go a bit but if it gets too ruogh for your liking just try to call their names, or boys, or hey, etc. Calm and confident. And see how they respond to assess how they view it. A break would allow one to get out of there if it was something they didn't like.

"Defensiveness from Charly? Or from Yoda?" - Mostly from Charly but early I saw defensiveness from Yoda. But it is nothing that is concerning me at this point.

"What kind of warning signs should I be looking out for?" - Hiding, avoiding, not eating, etc. It will be obvious.

"He does also get a bit bitey when demanding affection (not hard and somewhat learning not to, but still happens)." - Yes, probably over stimulation. That is more common than we like. :/

"Yoda was a tad more tentative but he'll get over that quickly Im guessing." - Ok, that is fine.

"Im in two minds about it too, but I also don't want to stress my partner too much with "double work" if he can't feed them together and having to maneuver them around so they don't meet when he opens doors." - Well, for me this is about keeping him from being in a very difficult situation AND what is best for the cats.

" I'm a bit anxious about it all now," - Ok, please don't be anxious. We can handle anything.

" and my partner was a bit... Not offended, but he was quite sure he could handle it and I didn't want to seem too ungrateful as he is going to be spending lots of time to go back and forth to take care of them from his place." - What he will be doing is great. I just don't know his abilities and if it gets wild if he is capable. And if he can't he will feel awful.

"I'll report back how it went when he updates me." - Great

 

[calicosrspecial]

I've just had the first update from him and apparently, Yoda just followed HIM around, not Charly Yoda went to sniff Charly and Charly allowed it no protest, verbal or otherwise. He kept it very short and gave them some treats and then separated them again and had them eat individually and played individually. I think this may be a nice compromise. They never get into rough play right away so if he keeps it short and sweet, I think it will be fine. Yoda when liberated from his room usually wants human cuddles first before he wants Charly so it may be a good middle ground.

We'll see how it goes the next days I suppose. I miss them so much already

Are you gone now?

"I've just had the first update from him and apparently, Yoda just followed HIM around, not Charly Yoda went to sniff Charly and Charly allowed it no protest, verbal or otherwise." - Wow, great!!

" He kept it very short and gave them some treats and then separated them again and had them eat individually and played individually. I think this may be a nice compromise." - Perfect

" They never get into rough play right away so if he keeps it short and sweet, I think it will be fine. Yoda when liberated from his room usually wants human cuddles first before he wants Charly so it may be a good middle ground." - Great

"We'll see how it goes the next days I suppose." - So far so good!!!

" I miss them so much already " - Awwww,I know.

 

[noani]

Yes I managed to get home to Germany for Christmas! Still sick but I'm happy I got here. Been way too long!

I guess we'll see now how he goes with them but I'm sure they'll be okay.

What do you mean Charly will have to take over my role eventually? I just distract Yoda lots but I'm not sure what Charly wants actually. I'm having a really hard time reading him actually, if he wants to play with Yoda, if he wants to be left alone, if he enjoys the rough play or if it scares him of of it's a matter of sometimes yes sometimes no.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes I managed to get home to Germany for Christmas! Still sick but I'm happy I got here. Been way too long!

I guess we'll see now how he goes with them but I'm sure they'll be okay.

What do you mean Charly will have to take over my role eventually? I just distract Yoda lots but I'm not sure what Charly wants actually. I'm having a really hard time reading him actually, if he wants to play with Yoda, if he wants to be left alone, if he enjoys the rough play or if it scares him of of it's a matter of sometimes yes sometimes no.

"Yes I managed to get home to Germany for Christmas! Still sick but I'm happy I got here. Been way too long!" - Great (other than not feeling well). Enjoy the tie back home!!!

"I guess we'll see now how he goes with them but I'm sure they'll be okay." - So far so good. I have to plan for the worst case, etc.

"What do you mean Charly will have to take over my role eventually?" - Charly will have to tell Yoda when enough is enough.


" I just distract Yoda lots" - Yes

" but I'm not sure what Charly wants actually." - But he for the most part knows.

"I'm having a really hard time reading him actually," - He is a cat

" if he wants to play with Yoda, if he wants to be left alone, if he enjoys the rough play or if it scares him of of it's a matter of sometimes yes sometimes no. " - He will tell us with his actions. So far he wants to play.............................. and only at times says "enough for the moment". So far he is enjoying his new brother.