Need guidance on cat introductions

[noani]

Tonight Charly hissed about twice in half an hour.
Yoda wasn't interested in eating, so my partner was cuddling and petting him while Charly ate calmly. Then Charly did a big stretch and came up to me for some scritches (a semi rare occurrence compared to Yoda who is a cuddleholic). And a first in yoda's presence.
He swatted some later on but Yoda accepted it and doesn't try again - e.g. Charly was on black dresser and Yoda jumped on the smaller one. Charly swatted and Yoda went down. He looked like he wanted to go up again a bit later but didn't - looks like he got Charlys message. Charly then did what he does best and jumped up on the (quite tall) wardrobe. Since the furniture was moved around his usual off-ramp wasn't there but he stayed up there for a while watching us (Yoda, me, and my partner was there tonight too). In the end I moved the white dresser to where it usually was before we had the Yoda recovery crate and he jumped off. They walked past each other a few times then without much incident, just some swatting and a little hissing from Charly to which Yoda keeps a little more distance.

When we ended it and closed the door, Charly went to eat the rest of his dinner in the kitchen and is now chilling on the bed.

It was interesting how my partner sees many things as negative interaction and something to break up immediately, where I'm now more chill and relaying what you have taught me. Kind of like seeing myself from the outside lol.

Thank you for all your input feedback and all you've taught me already! These two little buggers wouldn't be where they are now without your support

Charly was scratching at the floor in the previous video btw. He does that a lot when there is food he doesn't want to eat in a bowl. He was basically trying to bury some kibble which was in a bowl maybe just out of frame. He will do that to his own food in the kitchen too. He also scratches for ages at the litterbox after he's gone. Got some very strong burying urges this one..

Im starting to feel like it's getting to be quite cruel keeping Yoda "locked up" so much. It's been months now and the room doesn't even have a window. Charly goes nuts when locked in a room so switching them for very long periods isn't much of an option I guess? Or if I did that, would I switch litterboxes too?
Yoda is meowing so much, I try to spend as much time as possible in there with him but it feels horrible having him confined to a room for so long.
I wonder how long it's going to have to stay this way. In your experience, is there an educated guesstimate of how long they'll have to live in separate rooms still?

 

[noani]

Just an afterthought, I'll be going to Germany from the 23rd to 31st of December. My partner will come for the cats twice a day, but he is less used to them together now and in general they will be alone even more. Especially Yoda. Just worrying about that a bit now considering his mental health being confined.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Tonight Charly hissed about twice in half an hour.
Yoda wasn't interested in eating, so my partner was cuddling and petting him while Charly ate calmly. Then Charly did a big stretch and came up to me for some scritches (a semi rare occurrence compared to Yoda who is a cuddleholic). And a first in yoda's presence.
He swatted some later on but Yoda accepted it and doesn't try again - e.g. Charly was on black dresser and Yoda jumped on the smaller one. Charly swatted and Yoda went down. He looked like he wanted to go up again a bit later but didn't - looks like he got Charlys message. Charly then did what he does best and jumped up on the (quite tall) wardrobe. Since the furniture was moved around his usual off-ramp wasn't there but he stayed up there for a while watching us (Yoda, me, and my partner was there tonight too). In the end I moved the white dresser to where it usually was before we had the Yoda recovery crate and he jumped off. They walked past each other a few times then without much incident, just some swatting and a little hissing from Charly to which Yoda keeps a little more distance.

When we ended it and closed the door, Charly went to eat the rest of his dinner in the kitchen and is now chilling on the bed.

It was interesting how my partner sees many things as negative interaction and something to break up immediately, where I'm now more chill and relaying what you have taught me. Kind of like seeing myself from the outside lol.

Thank you for all your input feedback and all you've taught me already! These two little buggers wouldn't be where they are now without your support

Charly was scratching at the floor in the previous video btw. He does that a lot when there is food he doesn't want to eat in a bowl. He was basically trying to bury some kibble which was in a bowl maybe just out of frame. He will do that to his own food in the kitchen too. He also scratches for ages at the litterbox after he's gone. Got some very strong burying urges this one..

Im starting to feel like it's getting to be quite cruel keeping Yoda "locked up" so much. It's been months now and the room doesn't even have a window. Charly goes nuts when locked in a room so switching them for very long periods isn't much of an option I guess? Or if I did that, would I switch litterboxes too?
Yoda is meowing so much, I try to spend as much time as possible in there with him but it feels horrible having him confined to a room for so long.
I wonder how long it's going to have to stay this way. In your experience, is there an educated guesstimate of how long they'll have to live in separate rooms still?

"Tonight Charly hissed about twice in half an hour." - Great

"Yoda wasn't interested in eating, so my partner was cuddling and petting him while Charly ate calmly. " - Perfect

"Then Charly did a big stretch" - FANTASTIC!!! That is a GREAT sign of Charly feeling comfortable, trusting.

" and came up to me for some scritches (a semi rare occurrence compared to Yoda who is a cuddleholic). And a first in yoda's presence." - Awwww, perfect

"He swatted some later on but Yoda accepted it and doesn't try again - e.g. Charly was on black dresser and Yoda jumped on the smaller one. Charly swatted and Yoda went down." - Ok, that is fine and understandable. They are working things out

"He looked like he wanted to go up again a bit later but didn't - looks like he got Charlys message." - Great. Yoda is so good.

" Charly then did what he does best and jumped up on the (quite tall) wardrobe. Since the furniture was moved around his usual off-ramp wasn't there but he stayed up there for a while watching us (Yoda, me, and my partner was there tonight too). In the end I moved the white dresser to where it usually was before we had the Yoda recovery crate and he jumped off. " - Ok, great

"They walked past each other a few times then without much incident, just some swatting and a little hissing from Charly to which Yoda keeps a little more distance." - OK, that is fine. Was Yoda acting normal after that?

"When we ended it and closed the door, Charly went to eat the rest of his dinner in the kitchen and is now chilling on the bed." - Perfect

"It was interesting how my partner sees many things as negative interaction and something to break up immediately, where I'm now more chill and relaying what you have taught me. Kind of like seeing myself from the outside lol." - Great. I am so glad you are seeing the difference. It will make more sense in time as well. And once you learn you will be set for life.

"Thank you for all your input feedback and all you've taught me already! These two little buggers wouldn't be where they are now without your support "- Awwwww, you are welcome. Well, all the work you are doing and how good Yoda is is the real reason.

"Charly was scratching at the floor in the previous video btw. He does that a lot when there is food he doesn't want to eat in a bowl. He was basically trying to bury some kibble which was in a bowl maybe just out of frame. He will do that to his own food in the kitchen too. He also scratches for ages at the litterbox after he's gone. Got some very strong burying urges this one.. " - Ok, makes sense. Covering scent is good to keep predators away, etc.

"Im starting to feel like it's getting to be quite cruel keeping Yoda "locked up" so much." - Well I understand but I don't think it is cruel and it will not be for much longer. For now we have to make sure Charly is seeing less disruption, change etc. Once Charly feels totally comfortable that all is well, safe. etc no one will be "locked up".

" It's been months now and the room doesn't even have a window. " - I know but it is not for much longer and we need to keep Charly as "normal" as possible (the least amount of change).

"Charly goes nuts when locked in a room so switching them for very long periods isn't much of an option I guess? Or if I did that, would I switch litterboxes too?" - No, we never want a resident cat to feel like territory is being "taken" away. It just has to be this way for no but I suspect it will not be much longer.

"Yoda is meowing so much, I try to spend as much time as possible in there with him but it feels horrible having him confined to a room for so long." - I know but for now it has to be. Maybe soon you can try to have him in the other space (Charly's) and see how they do.

"I wonder how long it's going to have to stay this way. In your experience, is there an educated guesstimate of how long they'll have to live in separate rooms still? " - Oh my, it depends really. As fast as the slowest cat (which is usually the resident cat so Charly). It could be 2-6 weeks. They feel really close to me but that last few percent can be an issue. We'll know more when we see Yoda in Charly's territory and how Charly responds. I think I would try to do some face to face, feeding in Charly's space when you have time later this week or next weekend.

They are doing great so we'll see how they do and go from there. We'll do the same thing - Positive Association (food) and Positive Encounters.

"Just an afterthought, I'll be going to Germany from the 23rd to 31st of December." - Ok

"My partner will come for the cats twice a day, but he is less used to them together now and in general they will be alone even more. Especially Yoda. " - Ok, we will need to educate your partner on how the handle them. Change (you being gone) will be a challenge for the cats. :/ But we just have to work around it. I think we will keep them totally separate. I just don't know how capable your partner is.

"Just worrying about that a bit now considering his mental health being confined." - Oh don't worry. Yoda should be fine. It is only a week. They will be doing a lot of sleeping when you are gone. :/ When you get back they will be quite energetic. So we'll have to channel that into positives.

But I think they will be fine. I don't think you have to worry. Let's think about your partner's abilities and how we handle it when you are gone. I am sure you will get updates as well so e can deal with whatever is going on.

We'll get through it and they will be intro'd successfully.

 

[noani]

I actually kinda jumped the gun and let Yoda out a bit into the living room tonight. I couldn't handle the meowing anymore. A little swatting and one growl but they were great. They played on the bed for a bit with the same toy but are more interested in each other, although there are starting to be more moments when they aren't as hyper focused on each other.

Actually first Charly was sleeping on his chair. I opened the door and let out Yoda and kind of just scooped him up and cuddled him on the bed for a bit. Charly stayed half asleep but occasionally looked over. Then he got up after a bit and watched us and jumped down. They were then on the bed a bit quite amicably and then there was a little stalking around a hamper with one growl from Charly but nothing happened. There were quite a few nose touches with no hissing at all.
Then they both went into the bedroom together and just a bit of swatting when Yoda walks too close to him. They actually used the cat scratcher at the same time and both swatted a little around the tree but no vocalisations or anything. Looked a little more like play than aggression? Then led Charly out, he jumped up on his clicker spot and did his routine and went off.

Re Germany, I was also thinking before maybe they should just be kept completely separate those 8 days. I've been thinking of shortening or cancelling it but I need to see my family badly. Charly has been okay in the past when I've been away (sometimes longer than this, always have someone come in at least twice a day). Just a shame we'll have to interrupt intros. Is that gonna set them back a lot do you think?

 

[calicosrspecial]

I actually kinda jumped the gun and let Yoda out a bit into the living room tonight. I couldn't handle the meowing anymore. A little swatting and one growl but they were great. They played on the bed for a bit with the same toy but are more interested in each other, although there are starting to be more moments when they aren't as hyper focused on each other.

Actually first Charly was sleeping on his chair. I opened the door and let out Yoda and kind of just scooped him up and cuddled him on the bed for a bit. Charly stayed half asleep but occasionally looked over. Then he got up after a bit and watched us and jumped down. They were then on the bed a bit quite amicably and then there was a little stalking around a hamper with one growl from Charly but nothing happened. There were quite a few nose touches with no hissing at all.
Then they both went into the bedroom together and just a bit of swatting when Yoda walks too close to him. They actually used the cat scratcher at the same time and both swatted a little around the tree but no vocalisations or anything. Looked a little more like play than aggression? Then led Charly out, he jumped up on his clicker spot and did his routine and went off.

Re Germany, I was also thinking before maybe they should just be kept completely separate those 8 days. I've been thinking of shortening or cancelling it but I need to see my family badly. Charly has been okay in the past when I've been away (sometimes longer than this, always have someone come in at least twice a day). Just a shame we'll have to interrupt intros. Is that gonna set them back a lot do you think?

"I actually kinda jumped the gun and let Yoda out a bit into the living room tonight. I couldn't handle the meowing anymore." - Ok

" A little swatting and one growl but they were great. They played on the bed for a bit with the same toy but are more interested in each other, although there are starting to be more moments when they aren't as hyper focused on each other." - GREAT

"Actually first Charly was sleeping on his chair. I opened the door and let out Yoda and kind of just scooped him up and cuddled him on the bed for a bit. Charly stayed half asleep but occasionally looked over. Then he got up after a bit and watched us and jumped down. They were then on the bed a bit quite amicably and then there was a little stalking around a hamper with one growl from Charly but nothing happened. There were quite a few nose touches with no hissing at all." - Ok. Great. Just take it slow and make it as positive as possible.

"Then they both went into the bedroom together" - Great

" and just a bit of swatting when Yoda walks too close to him." - Ok, understandable

" They actually used the cat scratcher at the same time and both swatted a little around the tree but no vocalisations or anything." - Wow , the scratching post is really a good sign

'" Looked a little more like play than aggression?" - Ok or a warning no to try anything? The positive thing is it didn't end up as a negative

"Then led Charly out, he jumped up on his clicker spot and did his routine and went off." - Perfect

"Re Germany, I was also thinking before maybe they should just be kept completely separate those 8 days." - Ok, we jhave time so let's see

" I've been thinking of shortening or cancelling it but I need to see my family badly." - Just make your ecision on what is best for you adn your family. The cats will be fine.

" Charly has been okay in the past when I've been away (sometimes longer than this, always have someone come in at least twice a day). " - Ok, great to know. That is terrific

"Just a shame we'll have to interrupt intros." - Yes but it happens, it is fine

" Is that gonna set them back a lot do you think? " - Not meaningfully. Maybe a touch but nothing we can't handle. They are going to be fine

 

[noani]

At the end of the first vid was when Charly growled when they were stalking behind the hamper kind of (yes my place is a mess with all this lol).
I stopped the video because I was going to intervene and stop the interaction immediately but then decided to see how they work it out.
Didn't go so bad I think? Charly seemed semi-okay with Yoda in his territory.

 

[noani]

Here's some of this morning's interaction. No hissing, no growling. Before the video, they were fone. At one point Charly was in front of the couch and Yoda jumped down, to which Charly rolled on his side and swatted a little, but Yoda continued playing with his feather. Then charly went up on the white dresser and watched us play for about ten minutes (as in the video). After the video, Yoda went up on the table and made to go up onto the dresser Charly was on. Charly gave a little swat to the air and Yoda backed down. Didn't try again and just went to eat some kibble.

He's becoming better and better at listening to Charly when he shows him his limits and not push it. Charly as a consequence seems to be getting much more relaxed. After the swat I played a bit more with Yoda with Charly watching, then gave both some treats and then led Charly out. We did his clicker routine and he went to lie down on his chair.

Pretty good I think. Maybe you have some insight on body language, if I'm interpreting correctly from what you can see in the vid. He was more or less like this the whole time.

 

[calicosrspecial]

At the end of the first vid was when Charly growled when they were stalking behind the hamper kind of (yes my place is a mess with all this lol).
I stopped the video because I was going to intervene and stop the interaction immediately but then decided to see how they work it out.
Didn't go so bad I think? Charly seemed semi-okay with Yoda in his territory.

Video 1 - Totally fine. Charly pawed in the beginning and Yoda was fine, it ended with no issue. Charly went down by the hamper and Yoda followed eventually and there was some light pawing and nothing. Then they were peeking around the hamper and all looks fine. So overall, terrific. I did not see any issue and the pawing was resolved. Terrific.

"At the end of the first vid was when Charly growled when they were stalking behind the hamper kind of (yes my place is a mess with all this lol).
I stopped the video because I was going to intervene and stop the interaction immediately but then decided to see how they work it out." - Great, there was no need to intervence other than calling a name (which I heard you do). It did not look worrisome to me.

"Didn't go so bad I think? Charly seemed semi-okay with Yoda in his territory. " - Went great.

Video 2 - Looks great. Charly is a bit focused on Yoda but body language looks great.

Video 3 - Again great. Now this one I could not tell who was who Whoever was walking into Yoda's room was fine with the other cat above them. A touch of caution going into the room (I am guessing that was Charly) but it was totally fine.

Those videos were great.

Morning Video - PERFECT!! Charly looks GRET. Yoda of course great. But Charly looking really confident, calm, accepting. PERFECT

"Here's some of this morning's interaction. No hissing, no growling. Before the video, they were fone." - Great

" At one point Charly was in front of the couch and Yoda jumped down, to which Charly rolled on his side and swatted a little, but Yoda continued playing with his feather." - Totally fine with Charly and Yoda again perfect

"Then charly went up on the white dresser and watched us play for about ten minutes (as in the video). " - Perfect

"After the video, Yoda went up on the table and made to go up onto the dresser Charly was on. Charly gave a little swat to the air and Yoda backed down. Didn't try again and just went to eat some kibble." - Ok, that is good. Potential issue and it was resolved.

"He's becoming better and better at listening to Charly when he shows him his limits and not push it. " - Yes, Yoda is perfect.

"Charly as a consequence seems to be getting much more relaxed." - Exactly, Yoda is showing him he is not a threat.

" After the swat I played a bit more with Yoda with Charly watching, then gave both some treats and then led Charly out. We did his clicker routine and he went to lie down on his chair."- Perfect

"Pretty good I think." - Perfect.

" Maybe you have some insight on body language, if I'm interpreting correctly from what you can see in the vid. He was more or less like this the whole time. " Body language from both were terrific. No issue whatsoever.

Another great day. Just keep it up. They are basically there. But let's just keep doing what you are doing. You can extend the time a bit more and just keep doing what you are doing.

 

[noani]

Yep the one walking in first was Charly. He does look around a bit when Yoda is above him, he doesn't like it much but he's okay. He'll vocalize a bit sometimes when Yoda is kind of "over him", mostly a couple hisses, not much growling today.

Earlier, he made some sounds (didn't get a video tonight) like he does at his "prey" when playing and I got a bit worried but nothing happened. A couple more swats (he got him pretty good a couple hours ago but I trim his nails even more regularly now just to be safe, but I don't think he swatted with claws out anyway). Yoda looked a bit dazed for a second then was normal. He's pushing it less and less. Charly keeps hissing once or twice per interaction and he does swat quite a bit still. The swats sometimes looks like "stay back a bit pls" and other times they look kinda just mean. Although again there were some moments where very close, sniffing, and no hissing. When Yoda goes under the living room table Charly goes to kind of stalk him but doesn't do anything.

I agree, I think I got very lucky with Yoda. Who would have thought - my partner was very worried Yoda having been a street cat may have some fight in him. He's the most docile cat ever. He'll let you do anything (nails, medicine, whatever, the most he'll do is squirm and try to get away. He's never scratched me, ever and only sometimes bites but not in a play or even aggressive way. Just a weird hasn't learned being around humans manners quite yet although he has made insanely good progress on manners around humans too).

I'm not sure how to read charlys vocalisations - I think I've understood the hiss (at this stage, is it still just saying "ok but don't come to close and don't try anything", and will it get better over time? It's sometimes less sometimes more, but overall less I would say). The growling is definitely less but I don't know how to interpret the growl behind the hamper last night - a warning not to try anything?

What about the little vocalisations he makes? It sounds sort of like trilling but maybe a bit less happy. I'll see if I can catch it on video.

Earlier on, Yoda was eating some food and Charly went up to him cautiously then changed his mind. Turned around in front of him and laid down to groom his bum (he sat on his food dish by accident earlier lol). That felt very positive to me, lying down to groom with back to Yoda, and in general, I'm noticing increasing amounts of turning his back, almost 90-95% of the time accepting treats and sometimes eating with Yoda very close by, or with Yoda playing energetically right next to him.

Should the hissing and swatting diminish as trust builds or could it just be his character, wanting his distance and thus he may continue to tell Yoda to back off like this?
Granted, he does the same to my partner, who isn't the best at understanding cats aren't dogs and if he's not up for it, you best not go over there trying to pet him. He doesn't hiss of course, but he will swat and mock bite if my partner insists on trying to love on him when he wants to do his own thing.

I've been doing 2-3 interactions per day. I've fallen into a routine now where I give them dinner when I come home (late cause I have inconvenient hours so food first). Charly eats a little, then play with Charly for a good 15 minutes or so as energetically and vigorous as possible (usually, a lot). He'll then go and finish his dinner. After that we'll go in to Yoda (if I try to go alone, he will be scratching at the door). Then it's play time for Yoda while Charly observes, then some cuddles and a few more to bites of food for Yoda (kibble as treats) and some cat treats for Charly. All in all they probably spend an hour, an hour and a half together per day now, besides the third cat intermezzo where Charly wouldn't play and was generally super agitated.
They aren't eating together but it makes for calmer cats. When I do try to feed them together, they are too focused on each other and at least one won't be eating and I'm just side stepping bowls while playing and loving on Yoda with cuddles and scritches and giving Charly treats (his preferred form of loving on him lol).

Thinking of taking down the cat gates now as they don't really serve a purpose anymore other than me having to duck between them to go in and out and making the entrance smaller (not an issue but Charly usually dashes in. No lingering in the tunnel leading inside.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yep the one walking in first was Charly. He does look around a bit when Yoda is above him, he doesn't like it much but he's okay. He'll vocalize a bit sometimes when Yoda is kind of "over him", mostly a couple hisses, not much growling today.

Earlier, he made some sounds (didn't get a video tonight) like he does at his "prey" when playing and I got a bit worried but nothing happened. A couple more swats (he got him pretty good a couple hours ago but I trim his nails even more regularly now just to be safe, but I don't think he swatted with claws out anyway). Yoda looked a bit dazed for a second then was normal. He's pushing it less and less. Charly keeps hissing once or twice per interaction and he does swat quite a bit still. The swats sometimes looks like "stay back a bit pls" and other times they look kinda just mean. Although again there were some moments where very close, sniffing, and no hissing. When Yoda goes under the living room table Charly goes to kind of stalk him but doesn't do anything.

I agree, I think I got very lucky with Yoda. Who would have thought - my partner was very worried Yoda having been a street cat may have some fight in him. He's the most docile cat ever. He'll let you do anything (nails, medicine, whatever, the most he'll do is squirm and try to get away. He's never scratched me, ever and only sometimes bites but not in a play or even aggressive way. Just a weird hasn't learned being around humans manners quite yet although he has made insanely good progress on manners around humans too).

I'm not sure how to read charlys vocalisations - I think I've understood the hiss (at this stage, is it still just saying "ok but don't come to close and don't try anything", and will it get better over time? It's sometimes less sometimes more, but overall less I would say). The growling is definitely less but I don't know how to interpret the growl behind the hamper last night - a warning not to try anything?

What about the little vocalisations he makes? It sounds sort of like trilling but maybe a bit less happy. I'll see if I can catch it on video.

Earlier on, Yoda was eating some food and Charly went up to him cautiously then changed his mind. Turned around in front of him and laid down to groom his bum (he sat on his food dish by accident earlier lol). That felt very positive to me, lying down to groom with back to Yoda, and in general, I'm noticing increasing amounts of turning his back, almost 90-95% of the time accepting treats and sometimes eating with Yoda very close by, or with Yoda playing energetically right next to him.

Should the hissing and swatting diminish as trust builds or could it just be his character, wanting his distance and thus he may continue to tell Yoda to back off like this?
Granted, he does the same to my partner, who isn't the best at understanding cats aren't dogs and if he's not up for it, you best not go over there trying to pet him. He doesn't hiss of course, but he will swat and mock bite if my partner insists on trying to love on him when he wants to do his own thing.

I've been doing 2-3 interactions per day. I've fallen into a routine now where I give them dinner when I come home (late cause I have inconvenient hours so food first). Charly eats a little, then play with Charly for a good 15 minutes or so as energetically and vigorous as possible (usually, a lot). He'll then go and finish his dinner. After that we'll go in to Yoda (if I try to go alone, he will be scratching at the door). Then it's play time for Yoda while Charly observes, then some cuddles and a few more to bites of food for Yoda (kibble as treats) and some cat treats for Charly. All in all they probably spend an hour, an hour and a half together per day now, besides the third cat intermezzo where Charly wouldn't play and was generally super agitated.
They aren't eating together but it makes for calmer cats. When I do try to feed them together, they are too focused on each other and at least one won't be eating and I'm just side stepping bowls while playing and loving on Yoda with cuddles and scritches and giving Charly treats (his preferred form of loving on him lol).

Thinking of taking down the cat gates now as they don't really serve a purpose anymore other than me having to duck between them to go in and out and making the entrance smaller (not an issue but Charly usually dashes in. No lingering in the tunnel leading inside.

"Yep the one walking in first was Charly." - Ok, I thought so. Hard to tell them a part other than the body language.

" He does look around a bit when Yoda is above him, he doesn't like it much but he's okay. He'll vocalize a bit sometimes when Yoda is kind of "over him", mostly a couple hisses, not much growling today." - Totally normal. I am not at all worried about that.

"Earlier, he made some sounds (didn't get a video tonight) like he does at his "prey" when playing and I got a bit worried but nothing happened. " - Ok so the fact nothing happened is positive.

"A couple more swats (he got him pretty good a couple hours ago but I trim his nails even more regularly now just to be safe, but I don't think he swatted with claws out anyway). Yoda looked a bit dazed for a second then was normal. " - Ok he is jsut teaching manner, boundaries, etc.

"He's pushing it less and less." - Great

" Charly keeps hissing once or twice per interaction and he does swat quite a bit still. The swats sometimes looks like "stay back a bit pls" and other times they look kinda just mean. " - Ok part of the teaching and careful moments.

"Although again there were some moments where very close, sniffing, and no hissing. " - Great. IF there were issues that would nto happen.

"When Yoda goes under the living room table Charly goes to kind of stalk him but doesn't do anything." Totally normal since it is "fun" and it is instinct but great nothing bad happens.

"I agree, I think I got very lucky with Yoda. Who would have thought - my partner was very worried Yoda having been a street cat may have some fight in him. He's the most docile cat ever. He'll let you do anything (nails, medicine, whatever, the most he'll do is squirm and try to get away. He's never scratched me, ever and only sometimes bites but not in a play or even aggressive way. Just a weird hasn't learned being around humans manners quite yet although he has made insanely good progress on manners around humans too)." - Awwwwww. He is terrific. I only take in ferals (street cats) and trust is everything.

"I'm not sure how to read charlys vocalisations - I think I've understood the hiss (at this stage, is it still just saying "ok but don't come to close and don't try anything", and will it get better over time? " - I think you are reading it correctly. It is just a warning to "watch it, don't try anything". It could get better over time and sometimes it doesn't. BUT I don't expect it to be an issue. It is just communciation and Yoda respects it.

"It's sometimes less sometimes more, but overall less I would say)." - Great it is less overall.

" The growling is definitely less but I don't know how to interpret the growl behind the hamper last night - a warning not to try anything?" - Exactly. The growl is like a hiss. I am not at all bothered by it as long as nothing bad happens (it is respected).

"What about the little vocalisations he makes? It sounds sort of like trilling but maybe a bit less happy. I'll see if I can catch it on video." - I haven't really heard them but I am hard of hearing. :/ Given the good body language I would think it is not an issue.

"Earlier on, Yoda was eating some food and Charly went up to him cautiously then changed his mind. Turned around in front of him and laid down to groom his bum (he sat on his food dish by accident earlier lol). That felt very positive to me, lying down to groom with back to Yoda, and in general, I'm noticing increasing amounts of turning his back, almost 90-95% of the time accepting treats and sometimes eating with Yoda very close by, or with Yoda playing energetically right next to him." - ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!

"Should the hissing and swatting diminish as trust builds or could it just be his character, wanting his distance and thus he may continue to tell Yoda to back off like this?" - Hard to know. Could be either. But either way I don't expect it to be an issue.

"Granted, he does the same to my partner, who isn't the best at understanding cats aren't dogs and if he's not up for it, you best not go over there trying to pet him. He doesn't hiss of course, but he will swat and mock bite if my partner insists on trying to love on him when he wants to do his own thing." - Ahhhhh, yep, that is normal. Cats want things on their terms.

"I've been doing 2-3 interactions per day. I've fallen into a routine now" - Great and great. Cats re creatures of habits, routines.

" where I give them dinner when I come home (late cause I have inconvenient hours so food first). Charly eats a little, then play with Charly for a good 15 minutes or so as energetically and vigorous as possible (usually, a lot). He'll then go and finish his dinner. " - Ok. I like to play first then food since it replicates the survival instinct in the wild.

"After that we'll go in to Yoda (if I try to go alone, he will be scratching at the door). Then it's play time for Yoda while Charly observes, then some cuddles and a few more to bites of food for Yoda (kibble as treats) and some cat treats for Charly. " - Great

"All in all they probably spend an hour, an hour and a half together per day now, besides the third cat intermezzo where Charly wouldn't play and was generally super agitated." - WOW!!! AMAZING!!!

"They aren't eating together but it makes for calmer cats. When I do try to feed them together, they are too focused on each other and at least one won't be eating and I'm just side stepping bowls while playing and loving on Yoda with cuddles and scritches and giving Charly treats (his preferred form of loving on him lol)." - Ok, They are already past the need to make a positive association so that is fine.

"Thinking of taking down the cat gates now as they don't really serve a purpose anymore other than me having to duck between them to go in and out and making the entrance smaller (not an issue but Charly usually dashes in. No lingering in the tunnel leading inside. " - I think that is fine. If it is easier and doesn't really serve a purpose that is fine.

GREAT UPDATE and GREAT JOB!!! Keep doing what you are doing.

 

[noani]

"Yep the one walking in first was Charly." - Ok, I thought so. Hard to tell them a part other than the body language.

" He does look around a bit when Yoda is above him, he doesn't like it much but he's okay. He'll vocalize a bit sometimes when Yoda is kind of "over him", mostly a couple hisses, not much growling today." - Totally normal. I am not at all worried about that.

"Earlier, he made some sounds (didn't get a video tonight) like he does at his "prey" when playing and I got a bit worried but nothing happened. " - Ok so the fact nothing happened is positive.

"A couple more swats (he got him pretty good a couple hours ago but I trim his nails even more regularly now just to be safe, but I don't think he swatted with claws out anyway). Yoda looked a bit dazed for a second then was normal. " - Ok he is jsut teaching manner, boundaries, etc.

"He's pushing it less and less." - Great

" Charly keeps hissing once or twice per interaction and he does swat quite a bit still. The swats sometimes looks like "stay back a bit pls" and other times they look kinda just mean. " - Ok part of the teaching and careful moments.

"Although again there were some moments where very close, sniffing, and no hissing. " - Great. IF there were issues that would nto happen.

"When Yoda goes under the living room table Charly goes to kind of stalk him but doesn't do anything." Totally normal since it is "fun" and it is instinct but great nothing bad happens.

"I agree, I think I got very lucky with Yoda. Who would have thought - my partner was very worried Yoda having been a street cat may have some fight in him. He's the most docile cat ever. He'll let you do anything (nails, medicine, whatever, the most he'll do is squirm and try to get away. He's never scratched me, ever and only sometimes bites but not in a play or even aggressive way. Just a weird hasn't learned being around humans manners quite yet although he has made insanely good progress on manners around humans too)." - Awwwwww. He is terrific. I only take in ferals (street cats) and trust is everything.

"I'm not sure how to read charlys vocalisations - I think I've understood the hiss (at this stage, is it still just saying "ok but don't come to close and don't try anything", and will it get better over time? " - I think you are reading it correctly. It is just a warning to "watch it, don't try anything". It could get better over time and sometimes it doesn't. BUT I don't expect it to be an issue. It is just communciation and Yoda respects it.

"It's sometimes less sometimes more, but overall less I would say)." - Great it is less overall.

" The growling is definitely less but I don't know how to interpret the growl behind the hamper last night - a warning not to try anything?" - Exactly. The growl is like a hiss. I am not at all bothered by it as long as nothing bad happens (it is respected).

"What about the little vocalisations he makes? It sounds sort of like trilling but maybe a bit less happy. I'll see if I can catch it on video." - I haven't really heard them but I am hard of hearing. :/ Given the good body language I would think it is not an issue.

"Earlier on, Yoda was eating some food and Charly went up to him cautiously then changed his mind. Turned around in front of him and laid down to groom his bum (he sat on his food dish by accident earlier lol). That felt very positive to me, lying down to groom with back to Yoda, and in general, I'm noticing increasing amounts of turning his back, almost 90-95% of the time accepting treats and sometimes eating with Yoda very close by, or with Yoda playing energetically right next to him." - ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!

"Should the hissing and swatting diminish as trust builds or could it just be his character, wanting his distance and thus he may continue to tell Yoda to back off like this?" - Hard to know. Could be either. But either way I don't expect it to be an issue.

"Granted, he does the same to my partner, who isn't the best at understanding cats aren't dogs and if he's not up for it, you best not go over there trying to pet him. He doesn't hiss of course, but he will swat and mock bite if my partner insists on trying to love on him when he wants to do his own thing." - Ahhhhh, yep, that is normal. Cats want things on their terms.

"I've been doing 2-3 interactions per day. I've fallen into a routine now" - Great and great. Cats re creatures of habits, routines.

" where I give them dinner when I come home (late cause I have inconvenient hours so food first). Charly eats a little, then play with Charly for a good 15 minutes or so as energetically and vigorous as possible (usually, a lot). He'll then go and finish his dinner. " - Ok. I like to play first then food since it replicates the survival instinct in the wild.

"After that we'll go in to Yoda (if I try to go alone, he will be scratching at the door). Then it's play time for Yoda while Charly observes, then some cuddles and a few more to bites of food for Yoda (kibble as treats) and some cat treats for Charly. " - Great

"All in all they probably spend an hour, an hour and a half together per day now, besides the third cat intermezzo where Charly wouldn't play and was generally super agitated." - WOW!!! AMAZING!!!

"They aren't eating together but it makes for calmer cats. When I do try to feed them together, they are too focused on each other and at least one won't be eating and I'm just side stepping bowls while playing and loving on Yoda with cuddles and scritches and giving Charly treats (his preferred form of loving on him lol)." - Ok, They are already past the need to make a positive association so that is fine.

"Thinking of taking down the cat gates now as they don't really serve a purpose anymore other than me having to duck between them to go in and out and making the entrance smaller (not an issue but Charly usually dashes in. No lingering in the tunnel leading inside. " - I think that is fine. If it is easier and doesn't really serve a purpose that is fine.

GREAT UPDATE and GREAT JOB!!! Keep doing what you are doing.

Thank You! They've been very good today. I only did one face to face today as I'm quite sick but they were very good today. Not a single hiss.
Charly keeps swatting or pawing at Yoda but Yoda doesn't react to it (he half pawed back once but that was it). I don't know how to read it but it doesn't lead to conflict. If you could provide some insight into the pawing that would be great though

Charly joined us on the couch for the first time today. He hasn't been comfortable being this close before. He even got interested in the toy a little bit. He was getting little treats throughout and Yoda was quite happy playing.
First time I've been just lying back on the couch playing with them and they were okay and actually did well I think.
Charly also let Yoda smell him more today.
They had a bit of dinner together, then play or well what you can see it in videos, and then Yoda went to eat the rest of his dinner and I lead Charly out who also had his dinner then. I'm thanking myself for lead clicker training Charly now. Makes it much easier to lead him out with no fuss.

I'll upload some vids of tonight in a bit.

 

[noani]

I tried to put them together but it won't work. They're posted in chronological order. YouTube messed up the order somehow.

Basically, no hissing tonight, nor growling. Charly much closer. He does swat or paw when Yoda jumps by though. Almost every time. Not sure what to make of the swatting, pawing, what it means.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank You! They've been very good today. I only did one face to face today as I'm quite sick but they were very good today. Not a single hiss.
Charly keeps swatting or pawing at Yoda but Yoda doesn't react to it (he half pawed back once but that was it). I don't know how to read it but it doesn't lead to conflict. If you could provide some insight into the pawing that would be great though

Charly joined us on the couch for the first time today. He hasn't been comfortable being this close before. He even got interested in the toy a little bit. He was getting little treats throughout and Yoda was quite happy playing.
First time I've been just lying back on the couch playing with them and they were okay and actually did well I think.
Charly also let Yoda smell him more today.
They had a bit of dinner together, then play or well what you can see it in videos, and then Yoda went to eat the rest of his dinner and I lead Charly out who also had his dinner then. I'm thanking myself for lead clicker training Charly now. Makes it much easier to lead him out with no fuss.

I'll upload some vids of tonight in a bit.

"Thank You! They've been very good today. I only did one face to face today as I'm quite sick but they were very good today. Not a single hiss." - Great though I am so sorry you are ill. I hope you get well soon.

"Charly keeps swatting or pawing at Yoda" - Ok. It really depends on the context. Defensive, offensive, etc.

" but Yoda doesn't react to it (he half pawed back once but that was it). " - Ok, it is something we will need to watch but my sense (if it is like the videos) it is not an issue.

"I don't know how to read it but it doesn't lead to conflict. If you could provide some insight into the pawing that would be great though " - Sure. I'll see if it is in the new videos and address it. In the prior videos it was more defensive (Don't try anything) which should not be an issue.

"Charly joined us on the couch for the first time today. He hasn't been comfortable being this close before. He even got interested in the toy a little bit. He was getting little treats throughout and Yoda was quite happy playing." - Awwwwwwwwww

"First time I've been just lying back on the couch playing with them and they were okay and actually did well I think." - Great

"Charly also let Yoda smell him more today." awwwwwww. more trust

"They had a bit of dinner together, then play or well what you can see it in videos, and then Yoda went to eat the rest of his dinner and I lead Charly out who also had his dinner then. I'm thanking myself for lead clicker training Charly now. Makes it much easier to lead him out with no fuss." - Terrific.

"I'll upload some vids of tonight in a bit. " - Great going to watch them now

Ok, I am not exactly sure what order they are in but will show the video number before the analysis.

Video 1 (1) - Good job reassuring them. So Charly was a little focused on Yoda did the swat when Yoda jumped down but the key is he did not follow, attack. SO not an issue. Overall, being that close, being that good the video was great.

Video 1 (2) - Perfect. Yoda swats at the toy near Charly no reaction then jumps up right by Charly. No reaction. This tells me Charly is really trusting him.

Video 1 (3) - Perfect. What can I say. Body language, everything. Perfect.

Video 1 (4) - Perfect. Repeat of previous.

Video 1 (5) - The swatting was fine. Charly was telling Yoda to get away, watch it. But he doesn't pursue Yoda, doesn't show negative body language. It was in the moment and didn't linger which is great. Yoda runs down and Charly is fine. Again, that is an important sign of trust. Charly paws when Yoda jumps up (normal, expected) and is fine. Then Yoda paws at the toy towards Charly and Charly does not react. Again, another telling moment. And Charly goes down for a treat. Totally normal, fine video. Nothing concerning.

Video 2 (1) - Yoda falls off and Charly takes a second to react then paws. You step in to reassure (GREAT JOB). Carly is fine after and is focused on the toy not Yoda. Yoda make a sudden move and Charly is fine. TERRIFIC. Charly gets a treat. Ends well. TERRIFIC. I did not see one thing that concerned me.

Video 2 (2) - They both jump up and nothing negative happens. And good job reassuring and giving a treat. Yoda jumps down and Charly is fine. Amazing. IF they lacked trust there would have been an incident or at least a change in body language. Charly wants to play, then jumps down for a treat, Yoda jumps up. PERFECT!!!

So overall, amazing. I think you can continue extending the time together, maybe start testing just "hanging out" (no toy), let them roam a bit while you do something else. See how they do. And go from there.

They are doing great. Keep up the great work!! Keep doing what you are doing.

 

[noani]

Yoda is the one higher up at the start of both vids.

Tonight wasn't so great. Charly at some point sniffed yoda's tail and the hissing began.

They were soon both on the couch and Charly was not a happy camper. I don't know if it comes out in the video but there was quite some growling and other vocalisations. For the first time, I've had the impression he would like to attack him. The noises were a mix of growling, sort of chattering and sort of short yowls? Or maybe just growling. I don't know how to describe it.
I didn't catch the brunt of the swatting on video even.

A couple times, Yoda seemed a bit scared of him. First time I've seen his back ripple with tension. I've seen it in Charly a lot when he's over stimulated. Yoda backed down so no fight happened but it didn't look good to me tonight at all.

After the video, when I tried to lead out Charly, Yoda ran out instead. Charly didn't care Yoda was in "his" room.

Should I step it back? Should I give them the whole territory (it's a small place) while supervising for tomorrow's interaction to see if they'll both just go somewhere? It's hard for them in yoda's small room to hang out and not be very close. They both want on the couch now.

Feeling a bit defeated - Charly seemed very unhappy tonight and I got the feeling he would like to attack. He's fine now. Just a little bit wound up energy wise but he gets like that sometimes.

I came home very late today because of a work commitment. Being sick I've played a bit less with Charly yesterday and today. Maybe that has a part in it? I'm starting to think yes keep them separate when I'm in Germany.

 

[kakers]

I couldn't hear much since my husband is asleep so I kept the volume super low but these interactions don't look concerning to me. The second one they look to me like they are playing, based on how they are not stuck in a locked eyes stare down, they're looking away from each other and flopping over playfully and swatting at toys in the midst of it.

The first video they did a good job of giving each other space. Some nervousness I'm sure but Yoda was able to jump down without so much as a paw lifted in his direction. I feel like this is a very solid sign that Charly does not truly want to attack him because if he really wanted to, that's when he would have done it.

Nervousness is totally normal with them still getting used to each other. Also some hissing and swatting isn't necessarily the worst thing. Some of my cats have been together over ten years and generally get along but still hiss and swat at each other on occasion. Almost daily even, but they don't generally get into fights. It's just their way of saying "back off," "leave me alone," or "ugh not now!" Some cats are spicier than others and will react this way more than others. I have one that will wake up to swat and hiss when another cat goes next to her only to immediately fall back asleep with the other cat right there.

As long as nobody is getting hurt (which definitely seems they are not) I think these guys are doing well! If they were my cats I would even feel comfortable with them having these interactions without me supervising nearby, it's not escalating and I wouldn't want my nerves to make a situation more tense.

Personally I would allow them more territory together tomorrow, especially since you say that Charly was OK with Yoda being in his room. It will give them more space to spread out if they want and if they both choose to stay close to each other then you can at least feel reassured that they're comfortable enough to choose proximity even when more space is an option.

 

[noani]

I couldn't hear much since my husband is asleep so I kept the volume super low but these interactions don't look concerning to me. The second one they look to me like they are playing, based on how they are not stuck in a locked eyes stare down, they're looking away from each other and flopping over playfully and swatting at toys in the midst of it.

The first video they did a good job of giving each other space. Some nervousness I'm sure but Yoda was able to jump down without so much as a paw lifted in his direction. I feel like this is a very solid sign that Charly does not truly want to attack him because if he really wanted to, that's when he would have done it.

Nervousness is totally normal with them still getting used to each other. Also some hissing and swatting isn't necessarily the worst thing. Some of my cats have been together over ten years and generally get along but still hiss and swat at each other on occasion. Almost daily even, but they don't generally get into fights. It's just their way of saying "back off," "leave me alone," or "ugh not now!" Some cats are spicier than others and will react this way more than others. I have one that will wake up to swat and hiss when another cat goes next to her only to immediately fall back asleep with the other cat right there.

As long as nobody is getting hurt (which definitely seems they are not) I think these guys are doing well! If they were my cats I would even feel comfortable with them having these interactions without me supervising nearby, it's not escalating and I wouldn't want my nerves to make a situation more tense.

Personally I would allow them more territory together tomorrow, especially since you say that Charly was OK with Yoda being in his room. It will give them more space to spread out if they want and if they both choose to stay close to each other then you can at least feel reassured that they're comfortable enough to choose proximity even when more space is an option.

Thank you for your reply
He didn't swat in the video when Yoda jumped down, but he did the time before and the time after
I was trying to find an example of the sounds Charly was making when he went to swat him but can't. I don't know how to interpret them, but read somewhere that you can tell the difference between play and aggression by absence of hissing growling and other vocalisations. Which wasn't his case last night at all
I guess I'm worried that Charly would like to attack him but doesn't feel confident enough to just do it yet? But that he will soon?

 

[noani]

This morning's shenanigans. Were they hostile? Playing? Yoda playing but Charly hostile (my impression)?
There was some hissing and growling from Charly, none from Yoda. In the last video it's actually Yoda who kinda pounced or whatever. Yes I freaked out for a second as you can hear. Probably not super helpful.

They were out together for about 20 minutes in total so the videos are just some examples.

 

[noani]

Here they are late afternoon. I went in to Yoda and Charly demanded to be let in so I did. He's the one on my legs. At some point he hissed and growled when I moved my hand (his treat had just fallen down - he gets very agitated about them but not like this!). He's hissed at me very few times in his life and never growled. Now overall they don't look so bad but the vocalisations worry me.

If I don't distract Yoda he will be "bothering" him all the time. Should I dial it back a bit? I'm doing 2-3 face to face per day at the moment. Usually 20, 30 mins each.

Btw after the video Yoda went to sleep (I assume cause it's quiet in there) and Charly came to sleep on my lap a bit.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yoda is the one higher up at the start of both vids.

Tonight wasn't so great. Charly at some point sniffed yoda's tail and the hissing began.

They were soon both on the couch and Charly was not a happy camper. I don't know if it comes out in the video but there was quite some growling and other vocalisations. For the first time, I've had the impression he would like to attack him. The noises were a mix of growling, sort of chattering and sort of short yowls? Or maybe just growling. I don't know how to describe it.
I didn't catch the brunt of the swatting on video even.

A couple times, Yoda seemed a bit scared of him. First time I've seen his back ripple wit" - ok, this was before the videos?h tension. I've seen it in Charly a lot when he's over stimulated. Yoda backed down so no fight happened but it didn't look good to me tonight at all.

After the video, when I tried to lead out Charly, Yoda ran out instead. Charly didn't care Yoda was in "his" room.

Should I step it back? Should I give them the whole territory (it's a small place) while supervising for tomorrow's interaction to see if they'll both just go somewhere? It's hard for them in yoda's small room to hang out and not be very close. They both want on the couch now.

Feeling a bit defeated - Charly seemed very unhappy tonight and I got the feeling he would like to attack. He's fine now. Just a little bit wound up energy wise but he gets like that sometimes.

I came home very late today because of a work commitment. Being sick I've played a bit less with Charly yesterday and today. Maybe that has a part in it? I'm starting to think yes keep them separate when I'm in Germany.

Sorry for the delayed response. I am having serious computer issues.

Video 1 - Charly is focused on Yoda and Yoda feels maybe a touch uncomfortable BUT Charly looks away from Yoda then Yoda jumps down and Charly is fine. So overall, fine. Good job saying their names!!!

Video 2 - Charly looks alert, Yoda very playful to start. Good job saying Charly. Charly has his back turned to Yoda (great). Yoda looks lie he wants to play, Charly turns around. Charly looks playful jumps down, Yoda pursues (looks playful). Charly goes into the table, Yoda above, you call Yoda and he turns his back and Charly doesn't attack. GREAT. Charly turns his back, focused on the toy, Yoda goes on the couch, gets a swat, Charly goes to the toy (GREAT) Yoda goes on his side (play, submissive). Charly gives a swat then goes to the toy and Yoda stares a bit. Video ends. That is fine. I actually get a sense Charly wanted to play. Still teaching manners. Overall, absolutely fine.

"Tonight wasn't so great. Charly at some point sniffed yoda's tail and the hissing began. " - Ok, was this before the videos?

"They were soon both on the couch and Charly was not a happy camper." - Ok

" I don't know if it comes out in the video but there was quite some growling and other vocalisations. " - I heard some but the body language didn't look bad at all.

"For the first time, I've had the impression he would like to attack him." - Hmmmmmmm, I didn't see that in the videos when I watched them but I guess I can see where you get that from.

"The noises were a mix of growling, sort of chattering and sort of short yowls? Or maybe just growling. I don't know how to describe it." - Ok


"I didn't catch the brunt of the swatting on video even." - Ok, how did they act after?

"A couple times, Yoda seemed a bit scared of him." - Yes or at least unsure.

" First time I've seen his back ripple with tension." - Ok

" I've seen it in Charly a lot when he's over stimulated. " - Ok

"Yoda backed down so no fight happened but it didn't look good to me tonight at all." - All I saw was the videos and they looked fine to me. There was some tension at times but Charly looked away. It was all worked out. Not only on Yoda's part but on Charly's as well.

"After the video, when I tried to lead out Charly, Yoda ran out instead." - Ok. What did he do our there? Any hiding? Anything different?

" Charly didn't care Yoda was in "his" room." - Great

"Should I step it back?" - No, I would not. Continue doing what you are doing.

"Should I give them the whole territory (it's a small place) while supervising for tomorrow's interaction to see if they'll both just go somewhere?" - Sure. I like that.

" It's hard for them in yoda's small room to hang out and not be very close. They both want on the couch now." - Awwwwwww. I think they kinda want to interact and play.

"Feeling a bit defeated " - Really? Hmmmmm. Am I missing something that was different than the videos?

"- Charly seemed very unhappy tonight " - I didn't see that in the videos. There was tension at times but they resolved it.

"and I got the feeling he would like to attack." - Hmmmmmm, when I watched the video I didn't see that but I can see where you got that. BUT he didn't attack.

" He's fine now. Just a little bit wound up energy wise but he gets like that sometimes." - That tells us that he didn't think it was bad. I actually got the sense Charly kinda wanted to play.

"I came home very late today because of a work commitment." - Ok that can cause issues but from the videos I would say if there were any issues they were minor. But I didn't really see anything concerning.

" Being sick I've played a bit less with Charly yesterday and today. Maybe that has a part in it?" - Very well could be. Pent up energy. He did seem more energetic.

"I'm starting to think yes keep them separate when I'm in Germany. " - Ok, we still have time to decide.

Next post Video 1 - TERRIFIC!!! THAT vieo would not have happened if last night was an issue. Yoda actually pawed back (playfully). Great job calling his name, he stopped, Charly was fine with it all and then Yoda follows Charly out (his new friend it is starting to look like). That tells me Yoda doesn't think Charly's swat was anything serious.

Video 2 - TERRIFIC!!! I see Charly wanting to play with Yoda now. GREAT. And AMAZING job of using words to distract, reassure etc. And it is working!!! Again, TERRIFIC video . These cats are absolutely fine.

Video 3 - That was all lay then at the end it got a little tense but you called Yoda. I would love to know what happened next but the video ended.

Video 4 - So the pawing got intense, you called out then it ended and that is the key. Nothing lingering and both were fine 10 seconds after. Again great job diffusing the issue. And Charly was fine, Yoda fine, Charly got a treat. Yoda is standing up a bit more. So the pawing was a bit intense BUT it was great it didn't escalate or linger.

"This morning's shenanigans. Were they hostile?" - Not hostile but got a bit wild in video 4 BUT it was resolved with no issue and no lingering issues. SO they are telling us it was not serious.

" Playing?" - I saw a fair amount of wanting to play in the other videos as I think I mentioned.

" Yoda playing but Charly hostile (my impression)?" - Yoda playing, standing up. Charly not hostile but in video 4 a bit wild.

"There was some hissing and growling from Charly, none from Yoda. " - Yes but body language tells me it is not an issue.

"In the last video it's actually Yoda who kinda pounced or whatever. " - Yes, that was to play.

"Yes I freaked out for a second as you can hear. Probably not super helpful." - Yes. I was going to write "panicked" in my video analysis. Which happens. No, it was fine. And Yoda looked at you like "Mom, we just want to play". And it did not escalate (which tells me it is not an issue). It is interesting because the cats have more trust in each other than I think you have in the cats (Yes, THAT is VERY common so you are not at all alone with that). How they act after something always tells us so much about what they think about what happened. Yoda is coming out of his shell and feeling more confident, comfortable. But he is fine.

And you are doing an AMAZING job using words/names.

"They were out together for about 20 minutes in total so the videos are just some examples. " - Great

I would say I am not at all concerned. It gets a bit rough but boys do. But they have trust and respect of each other and that is the key.

Tonight Video - Yoda is full of energy and Charly is really good to start. Charly's body language is great to start. Then Charly chooses the toy so he wanted to play. Which the body language supports. Charly swats defensively (or maybe to try to play since his body language is fine). And Charly gets some treats (be careful when he is full of energy like that giving treats though it was really cute that he put his paw in your hand). And all is fine (would love to know what happened after the video ended). Fantastic video. Charly did very well.

"Here they are late afternoon. I went in to Yoda and Charly demanded to be let in so I did. He's the one on my legs. " - Awwwwwwwww

"At some point he hissed and growled when I moved my hand (his treat had just fallen down - he gets very agitated about them but not like this!)." - Ok, I didn't pick up on that. :/

"He's hissed at me very few times in his life and never growled. Now overall they don't look so bad but the vocalisations worry me." - Ok, understandable. Though the body language did not look bad.

"If I don't distract Yoda he will be "bothering" him all the time." - Yes, Yoda is social and wants to play. Keep distracting him like you have been.

"Should I dial it back a bit? I'm doing 2-3 face to face per day at the moment. Usually 20, 30 mins each." - No, keep it up.

"Btw after the video Yoda went to sleep (I assume cause it's quiet in there) and Charly came to sleep on my lap a bit. " - Awwwww, and that tells us they think all is well. GREAT!!!

Let me know what you think I am missing because I am seeing only really good things (and normal things). And Charly is doing AMAZINGLY well for a bottle baby!!!

 

[noani]

"Tonight wasn't so great. Charly at some point sniffed yoda's tail and the hissing began. " - Ok, was this before the videos?

Yes, before. Just a quick hiss right after he smelled the tip of his tail.

" I don't know if it comes out in the video but there was quite some growling and other vocalisations. " - I heard some but the body language didn't look bad at all.

It's sometimes quite a bit but only ever from Charly.

"For the first time, I've had the impression he would like to attack him." - Hmmmmmmm, I didn't see that in the videos when I watched them but I guess I can see where you get that from.

How can I tell the difference?

"I didn't catch the brunt of the swatting on video even." - Ok, how did they act after?

With each other a bit like in the vids, a bit more swatting and some more growling from Charly but they did end up having treats sitting next to each other almost touching. Then I separated and ended it. On their own, they were both normal and Charly came to cuddle on my lap a few minutes later and fell asleep.

"After the video, when I tried to lead out Charly, Yoda ran out instead." - Ok. What did he do our there? Any hiding? Anything different?

Nothing, just walked around. He went under the bed and popped out the other side and went to check out the kitchen some. He seemed a bit unsure but he always does in the main room (less and less) - he's still not very familiar with that part of the flat.

"Feeling a bit defeated " - Really? Hmmmmm. Am I missing something that was different than the videos?

Maybe I'm misreading their body language and Charlys vocalisations. The growling, hissing and swatting put me off a lot and unsettle me a bit.

"and I got the feeling he would like to attack." - Hmmmmmm, when I watched the video I didn't see that but I can see where you got that. BUT he didn't attack.

After watching tons of videos tonight i am starting to think maybe he's starting to want to play or interact with Yoda too, but is still nervous about it rather than what I've interpreted (hostile and itching to attack)?

" Being sick I've played a bit less with Charly yesterday and today. Maybe that has a part in it?" - Very well could be. Pent up energy. He did seem more energetic.

Also noticed the feliway in "his" room was almost out. He's always been a nervous scaredy cat at times and feliway and of course routines as well as tons of play help but the vet says some of it is just his character and he'll always be a little prone to stress and anxiety. Even pre Yoda, I could tell the feliway was running out from his change in behaviour (like energy through the roof, running around like crazy, getting carried away when playing with me (always with fishing pole but when he's like this he'll lunge at my foot). Has improved tremendously over the last year but it's a learning curve.

Video 3 - That was all lay then at the end it got a little tense but you called Yoda. I would love to know what happened next but the video ended.

When they were in the table/on the table? Nothing much happened, I don't remember how but I got them out of that situation and I think got them into the living room where there is more space and not as much risk of one feeling cornered or anything.

" Yoda playing but Charly hostile (my impression)?" - Yoda playing, standing up. Charly not hostile but in video 4 a bit wild.

What do you interpret their intent to be in video 4? I think Yoda was wanting to play. What about Charly?

It is interesting because the cats have more trust in each other than I think you have in the cats (Yes, THAT is VERY common so you are not at all alone with that).

I've been spending half of my day watching videos of cats body language, fighting/playing to get a better idea (on sick leave now so I have lots of time lol). I just worry way too much and I'm really really not good at interpreting cat on cat interactions. I'm trying to learn more about it, so whenever I'm not sleeping or with them I've been watching and reading things regarding that.

Tonight Video - Yoda is full of energy and Charly is really good to start. Charly's body language is great to start. Then Charly chooses the toy so he wanted to play. Which the body language supports. Charly swats defensively (or maybe to try to play since his body language is fine). And Charly gets some treats (be careful when he is full of energy like that giving treats though it was really cute that he put his paw in your hand). And all is fine (would love to know what happened after the video ended). Fantastic video. Charly did very well.

Why careful? Am I rewarding his hissing/growling behaviour?
After the video I ended the interaction as I really wasn't feeling good and actually had to go get a COVID swab (neg) to make sure I hadn't put anyone at school at risk, so I ended it there. They were normal after in their respective rooms.

"Here they are late afternoon. I went in to Yoda and Charly demanded to be let in so I did. He's the one on my legs. " - Awwwwwwwww

Any idea why Charly is now sitting on me rather than the floor or the couch? Is he scared? Territorial? Wanting to get closer to my treat holding hand?

Let me know what you think I am missing because I am seeing only really good things (and normal things). And Charly is doing AMAZINGLY well for a bottle baby!!!

Thank you so much! I've just read everywhere now that if it is play, cats shouldn't be hissing (let alone growling) so I got it in my head since Charly hisses and growls A LOT he must be hostile towards Yoda.
I was (still am) worried about him never having been with cats and in general, not having learned some things that other cats usually do. He's gotten soooo much better over time but still occasionally lashes out against me (when he's playing vigorously or when over stimulated in general) or my partner sometimes if he gets startled by a movement. He will also sometimes squish between us and then meow unhappily and get agitated as if we had just cornered him, and he will strike unless we a) sit perfectly still, unmoving as he will go for whatever moves first or b) get up and go somewhere else. It doesn't happen often now but still does.

Anyways, thank you so much and I'll keep at it then! I need to learn more about their body language and how to read their interactions better.