Need An Opinion Please!

arouetta

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I gotta say I think people are coming down awfully hard on you.

Yeah, in this case returning Tammy does seem to be not warranted, but not every adoption works out and sometimes if there's a cat/owner personality conflict, the cat will do far, far better at a new home where such a conflict doesn't exist. And I personally thought that all shelters throw a clause in their legally binding contracts about not rehoming a cat, to bring it back instead. The shelter I adopted from did have that clause, in bold, and also one of the few things the shelter worker read out loud. It also is an SPCA shelter. I think it's to protect the cat, since they can't check the new owners to make sure it's not an animal hoarder or something.

You sound young, and young folks tend to have more black and white thinking. (God I sound old.) Tammy has had a lot of instability from your end. The fear.....I don't know what would trigger that, best guess is that she's afraid to become attached again. Maybe next time you have to leave town you should take her with you? It's also not ideal, but maybe the landscape changing will be less troublesome for her than the loss of an owner.

Give it time. If a cat is so terrified of an owner that she can't go to the bathroom, that's an issue, but you are also reporting increasing success in winning her attention. She'll probably never sleep on your bed again though, unless you move out.

If you need to continue to leave the home for days on end, are you in a position for a second cat? Shadow hated everyone when we brought Montressor home and they never really warmed up, but bringing Montressor home completely ended her separation anxiety (which is exactly why we got a second cat). Even if the relationship between the cats is a cold war, they at least will bring routine and orderliness to each other.
 

dustydiamond1

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UPDATE: kittensx4 kittensx4 dustydiamond1 dustydiamond1 She was laying on the couch just now and I was petting her, getting her to purr. Then I sat down, waited a minute and she came to lay on my lap to cuddle. She was cuddling into me and purring for almost 20 minutes. That's an improvement, right? She's slowly warming up to me. I get what you're saying about not punishing the cat by returning her to the shelter, but I think I'll keep her for a while longer to see where things go for the time being, you know what I mean? Besides... my adoption contract I signed at the shelter when I adopted Tammy states that: "in the event that I give up ownership of my cat, that it must return to the shelter and go through the adoption process again, and CANNOT be passed onto someone else without first going through the adoption process." And even if my grandparents had Tammy, and I wanted to get another kitten/cat, that wouldn't be wise in my opinion. If it ever came to the point where Tammy had to go back, and I wanted to get another cat, I'll probably wait till I get a note from the psychiatrist that will give me the ability to get social assistance to give me living allowance, and get my own place. I'm currently not able to work due to mental illness. Anyway... Regardless, I was quite surprised when Tammy came onto my lap tonight before bed literally 20 minutes ago, and was cuddled into me for almost 20 minutes. Making progress, right?
:grouphug2::grouphug::rock:Since you live with your grandparents and she wouldn't really be 'relocated' I don't think it would count as her being 'passed to someone else' but it sounds like she is doing better so just give her time.:catrub:
 

kittensx4

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I gotta say I think people are coming down awfully hard on you.

Yeah, in this case returning Tammy does seem to be not warranted, but not every adoption works out and sometimes if there's a cat/owner personality conflict, the cat will do far, far better at a new home where such a conflict doesn't exist. And I personally thought that all shelters throw a clause in their legally binding contracts about not rehoming a cat, to bring it back instead. The shelter I adopted from did have that clause, in bold, and also one of the few things the shelter worker read out loud. It also is an SPCA shelter. I think it's to protect the cat, since they can't check the new owners to make sure it's not an animal hoarder or something.

You sound young, and young folks tend to have more black and white thinking. (God I sound old.) Tammy has had a lot of instability from your end. The fear.....I don't know what would trigger that, best guess is that she's afraid to become attached again. Maybe next time you have to leave town you should take her with you? It's also not ideal, but maybe the landscape changing will be less troublesome for her than the loss of an owner.

Give it time. If a cat is so terrified of an owner that she can't go to the bathroom, that's an issue, but you are also reporting increasing success in winning her attention. She'll probably never sleep on your bed again though, unless you move out.

If you need to continue to leave the home for days on end, are you in a position for a second cat? Shadow hated everyone when we brought Montressor home and they never really warmed up, but bringing Montressor home completely ended her separation anxiety (which is exactly why we got a second cat). Even if the relationship between the cats is a cold war, they at least will bring routine and orderliness to each other.
Really? Cause I thought everyone has been very supportive, helpful and caring??? I sense genuine concern for Mike and Tammy.
 

arouetta

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Really? Cause I thought everyone has been very supportive, helpful and caring??? I sense genuine concern for Mike and Tammy.
Overall people have been supportive. But the post where he expressed in frustration that the adoption might not be working out, people all of a sudden made a few of the boo, hiss comments and started encouraging him to break a legal contract with the risk of civil penalties. Give it more time, yes that's supportive. How dare you think of giving her up?, that's borderline guilt-tripping and therefore not supportive. Give her to your grandparents, that's an encouragement to get sued and therefore really not supportive.

I'm pretty certain that a give-back clause is standard in every adoption contract from a reputable shelter. I have a very, very hard time believing that Mike and I are the only two people in existence to have adopted a cat with that clause in the paperwork.
 

amysuen

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I don't feel like I've had a vast experience with cats, but after living with 10 of them over the past 30 years I've learned that the cat chooses its person. Laelia was supposed to be my cat but she chose Jonah and loves him more than anyone else. Toothless was supposed to be Jonah's but seems more attached to me than him.

Cats have their own preferences and personality, and just like children we need to accept and love them for who they are. Don't give up on Tammy, after your absences it might take a while for her to trust that you're not going to leave her.
 

kittensx4

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Overall people have been supportive. But the post where he expressed in frustration that the adoption might not be working out, people all of a sudden made a few of the boo, hiss comments and started encouraging him to break a legal contract with the risk of civil penalties. Give it more time, yes that's supportive. How dare you think of giving her up?, that's borderline guilt-tripping and therefore not supportive. Give her to your grandparents, that's an encouragement to get sued and therefore really not supportive.

I'm pretty certain that a give-back clause is standard in every adoption contract from a reputable shelter. I have a very, very hard time believing that Mike and I are the only two people in existence to have adopted a cat with that clause in the paperwork.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And my opinion is, I personally would not give up a cat because they didn't respond to me the way I wanted them to. Again, my opinion, and as I recall the name of this thread is "Need an opinion". I feel pretty good no one, myself included, has made any comments out of malice, trying to guilt trip someone or break a law. Do you really think the comment made about turning the cat over to his grandparents was done so to break the law? No. People are just trying to look out for Tammy. This couldn't have LESS to do with the legalities of an adoption contract.
This thread has taken an odd turn and I am now respectfully bowing out. Mike & Tammy- I truly and sincerely hope the absolute very best for you both.
 

dustydiamond1

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Overall people have been supportive. But the post where he expressed in frustration that the adoption might not be working out, people all of a sudden made a few of the boo, hiss comments and started encouraging him to break a legal contract with the risk of civil penalties. Give it more time, yes that's supportive. How dare you think of giving her up?, that's borderline guilt-tripping and therefore not supportive. Give her to your grandparents, that's an encouragement to get sued and therefore really not supportive.

I'm pretty certain that a give-back clause is standard in every adoption contract from a reputable shelter. I have a very, very hard time believing that Mike and I are the only two people in existence to have adopted a cat with that clause in the paperwork.
Since he and Tammy live with the grandparents how would it be breaking the law?
 

arouetta

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First, civil law, not criminal. Second, if the de facto owner are the grandparents and the cat so much as catches a cold, Mike could be nailed for tort law violations - the negligence caused by neither staying as the primary owner or returning the cat exposed the cat to less than secure ownership, which in turn caused injury by the cat getting sick.

Would it be pushed that far? Probably not, unless the shelter has had far too many cases of animals not being returned and wants to make an example out of someone. But since that "example" possibility is present, it's not worth the risk.

Second, rehoming a cat is no different than a divorce. And both parties, the human and the cat, can state their relationship deal-breakers and can state their unhappiness in staying in the relationship. We act like even the slightest bit of change is bad for a cat, even if the cat's actions clearly are signaling a desire to divorce, and that keeping the cat in the home is "better" than letting the divorce happen and letting the cat go to a happier second marriage. Cats are stubborn about maintaining their routines, but they are also more flexible and adaptable than we pretend they are.

I just don't think that guilt-tripping is a good response to someone who is trying to negotiate the language barrier between cat and human and is trying to figure out if the cat has broken one of the human's relationship deal-breakers or if the human has broken one of the cat's relationship deal-breakers. And yeah, some of (insert random human here) can be petty and shallow, but if you were married to such a person, would you want to stay if you heard all about it if you gain 5 pounds or don't wear enough makeup? Or would you want to bail and find someone who can appreciate you for who you are? A cat is no different, if (insert random human here) wants to snuggle all the time and the cat has a hands off personality, the cat will be far, far happier getting a new home with new routines with a human that's content to just share the couch instead of the cat being touched all day long.
 

dustydiamond1

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First, civil law, not criminal. Second, if the de facto owner are the grandparents and the cat so much as catches a cold, Mike could be nailed for tort law violations - the negligence caused by neither staying as the primary owner or returning the cat exposed the cat to less than secure ownership, which in turn caused injury by the cat getting sick.

Would it be pushed that far? Probably not, unless the shelter has had far too many cases of animals not being returned and wants to make an example out of someone. But since that "example" possibility is present, it's not worth the risk.

Second, rehoming a cat is no different than a divorce. And both parties, the human and the cat, can state their relationship deal-breakers and can state their unhappiness in staying in the relationship. We act like even the slightest bit of change is bad for a cat, even if the cat's actions clearly are signaling a desire to divorce, and that keeping the cat in the home is "better" than letting the divorce happen and letting the cat go to a happier second marriage. Cats are stubborn about maintaining their routines, but they are also more flexible and adaptable than we pretend they are.

I just don't think that guilt-tripping is a good response to someone who is trying to negotiate the language barrier between cat and human and is trying to figure out if the cat has broken one of the human's relationship deal-breakers or if the human has broken one of the cat's relationship deal-breakers. And yeah, some of (insert random human here) can be petty and shallow, but if you were married to such a person, would you want to stay if you heard all about it if you gain 5 pounds or don't wear enough makeup? Or would you want to bail and find someone who can appreciate you for who you are? A cat is no different, if (insert random human here) wants to snuggle all the time and the cat has a hands off personality, the cat will be far, far happier getting a new home with new routines with a human that's content to just share the couch instead of the cat being touched all day long.
They all live in the same home don't they? What is the big deal? The cat seems to be bonding with everyone in one way or another...as cats in a multi people home seem to do....
 
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Mike89

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:grouphug2::grouphug::rock:Since you live with your grandparents and she wouldn't really be 'relocated' I don't think it would count as her being 'passed to someone else' but it sounds like she is doing better so just give her time.:catrub:
You'd think that would be the case, but the contract I signed states that i can't pass it off to someone else without first going through the adoption process again. And for that to happen, they have to go back to the shelter to get adopted again. I don't make the rules. I just follow them.
 
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Mike89

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UPDATE: So Tammy was just out in the kitchen, following me. I picked her up like I "used to" in the past "before" she got "spooked", and flipped out. She was severely and frantically searching for a way to get away from me, went into my grandparents' room and hid under the desk. I tried to get to her, but she just ran away and hid under the coffee table in the living room. =/ She won't come into my room anymore, she can't stay in my arms like she used to, she switches back and fourth between being afraid and being affectionate, almost like someone with split personality, as weird as that sounds. That's just how I've been viewing things. And it's not like I'm bothering her 24-7 or anything. I give her as much space as she wants.
 

JimmyJimmy

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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And my opinion is, I personally would not give up a cat because they didn't respond to me the way I wanted them to. Again, my opinion, and as I recall the name of this thread is "Need an opinion". I feel pretty good no one, myself included, has made any comments out of malice, trying to guilt trip someone or break a law. Do you really think the comment made about turning the cat over to his grandparents was done so to break the law? No. People are just trying to look out for Tammy. This couldn't have LESS to do with the legalities of an adoption contract.
This thread has taken an odd turn and I am now respectfully bowing out. Mike & Tammy- I truly and sincerely hope the absolute very best for you both.
You are spot on - all cats are totally different characters and it's up to a cats owner to blend in with the cats character.Speaking purely as a male who is at best average in the looks department- I have had probably more than my fair share of relationships but one thing that puts me off totally is a woman who try's to change me! Accept and work with what attracted you in the 1st place!!!
 

foxxycat

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sounds like you will need to step away=don't pick her up=sit on the floor- read a book- something quietly=for whatever reason-she's spooked=don't pick her up again. let her make the first move. I know it stinks-but if you keep pressing into her space=she's not going to warm up to you. play some quiet music like Christopher cross or other jazzy type to help calm her...give her treats- catnip, play with her=just don't touch her!! She will come around. Start being the only person to feed her=then she will associate you with food.
 
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Mike89

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sounds like you will need to step away=don't pick her up=sit on the floor- read a book- something quietly=for whatever reason-she's spooked=don't pick her up again. let her make the first move. I know it stinks-but if you keep pressing into her space=she's not going to warm up to you. play some quiet music like Christopher cross or other jazzy type to help calm her...give her treats- catnip, play with her=just don't touch her!! She will come around. Start being the only person to feed her=then she will associate you with food.
foxxycat foxxycat JimmyJimmy JimmyJimmy

I'm not sure if you've been carefully reading my previous posts or not, but my previous posts will tell you that I do give her as much space as she needs. That was the very first time that I attempted to pick her up since before the first time I had to be out of time last month. So it's not like I've been doing that all the time. She does sometimes follow me out into the kitchen to get her food, she hasn't been able to sleep in my bedroom since I got back from out of town last month, she will use the litter box as long as I don't look at her coming into the room, but even then she also sometimes don't come into the room at all if I'm here. It's kinda random and unpredictable, if that makes any sense to you. She's been slowly warming up to me and sometimes comes onto my lap if I sit on the floor or if I sit on the couch. I do pet her from time to time, but it's not what you're thinking. It's non-aggressive, it's light and gentle, and often I let her nuzzle into my fingers/hand.

I'm doing my best to keep it together and be patient, but it's hard sometimes, you know what I mean? For her to go from being affectionate 24/7 with zero problems to being much less affectionate, it can be scary for me as her owner, if that makes sense. She wasn't always like this. However, she's slowly getting used to me again. She made a lot of progress today by coming onto my lap and leg twice in the same day.

Actually today she jumped onto me TWICE so far. The first time I was eating my lunch and I was laying on my side. She just came up and laid down onto my leg for a while. The second time was after I came back from downtown, I was on the couch talking on the phone when she jumped up from the floor onto my lap and cuddled into me for almost 15 minutes. I took 3 videos today of her doing that I will upload to her album and I'll post a public link to her photo/video album on Facebook that you or anyone else can view. And the link enables even those without a Facebook account to view the link. Here's the link, and it's the very last 3 videos in the album for you to view.

My new kitty! ❤ | Facebook
 
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foxxycat

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I read your posts and I still think you are not giving her enough time. It takes 6 to 12 months for a cat to settle into their new home=that's why I am saying-slow down. be quiet around her and she will come to you. I have had skittish cats my whole life. They often hide from me for weeks-so I followed the words of a feral cat care taker=she taught me all I know about interacting with cats.

Look her up Taming Gracie's Feral Cat care.

She's the one who taught me to turn sideways with interacting, no talking and hand signals. They are smart animals and get used to patterns..so in the morning...feed her..and tell her you love her...play with her-
 

dustydiamond1

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You'd think that would be the case, but the contract I signed states that i can't pass it off to someone else without first going through the adoption process again. And for that to happen, they have to go back to the shelter to get adopted again. I don't make the rules. I just follow them.
YOU ALL LIVE UNDER THE SAME ROOF RIGHT?
IMO IT WOULDN'T BE "PASSING OFF" SINCE YOU ALL ARE ALREADY LIVING TOGETHER...........
 
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