My Pet Carnivore

[klag]

Hi, been lurking/reading/researching raw - wife wont let me make my own, found My Pet Carnivore - looks like can order whole ground turkeys/chickens/duck etc.

Anyone have any knowledge of this company/products?

I'm not worried about cost, just quality. 

 

[ldg]

I don't know where you're located, but they seem like a quality company with excellent sourcing. That said, I don't know anyone that has ordered from them. They're based out of Indiana, I believe.

A number of us are ordering from Hare Today - but we're either located on the east coast or in TX. http://www.hare-today.com. They're located in Western Pennsylvania. Overall, the quality of their whole animal ground mixes has been excellent.

Those of us using the ground mixes let them mostly dethaw, add this supplement: https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=290&osCsid=6354a9894c2565b7b8dbbb51008266ba If you're not ordering from Hare-Today, alnutrin is sold elsewhere online (and comes in different quantities if you're going to be doing bulk ordering).

If you're on the West Coast, you may want to order rabbit from http://www.wholefoods4pets.com/ And join a local yahoo B.A.R.F. (Bones and Raw Food - dog raw feeding) group for sourcing. There are usually local places making ground mixes, and the dog raw feeders will know where they are.

Hope this helps!

 

[klag]

Great info!  Thanks a bunch!  I will try some of their meat and the supplement.

As you can see, I am very interested in changing to raw - but not interested in making my own.  Trying to take in all the information is somewhat overwhelming.  I read another thread that only 3 brands were actually pathogen free and My Pet Carnivore (and Hare Today) are not among them. 

Thanks again!

 

[ldg]

Well, it costs quite a bit to add the High Pressure Processing to ensure pathogen-free status. The reality is that salmonella has a very low incidence in our commercial meats in the U.S., and that our pets, when they have a healthy gut flora, are well equipped to handle it. Cats' digestive tracts have a very rapid transit time (about 12 hours) when fed raw food. Most of us are providing them a probiotic to ensure a healthy gut flora. I have an FIV+ kitty that when rescued had chronic diarrhea, and one of my cats just completed six months of chemotherapy. We work with four vets and three different vet practices, and none of them have a problem with our feeding them a raw diet that includes non-pathogen-free guaranteed food. We did start with Nature's Variety, which is one of the pathogen-free guaranteed foods. It made us comfortable with the process of feeding raw, and then we began branching out. Now my cats don't really like ground food, and we're in the process of moving to frankenprey. :nod: (chunks of meat/bones/organs, though we haven't introduced bones yet. I'm using an eggshell supplement for calcium until we work the bones into the menu).

Don't know if you saw the resource thread for the forum: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

The information does seem overwhelming at first!

But ASK AWAY!

You may find this thread helpful too: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239950/questions-about-commercial-raw It's where a number of us were discussing commercial raw options when we were first transitioning (or considering transitioning).

OH! You may also find this information about making the transition helpful: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241623/raw-transition-resources-thread

 

[whollycat]

I recently ordered from them. Their customer service was great and the quality was okay...I think.

Will explain that shortly. Because I ordered chicken with giblets, my kitties would not eat it because of the gizzards in the mix (I didn't think of that when I ordered; my kiddos don't like gizzards). The outside feral kitties were much more appreciative.

I usually make my own ground raw (including hearts, liver, and supplements--especially taurine) for my three bubbies, but I also order from Hare-Today and add extra hearts, liver, and supplements. I decided to try a new supplier, so tried My Pet Carnivore. Now as to why I think the quality was "okay" is because it smelled--and not in a good way. When I make my own, or use H-T ground meat/bones/organs, there is virtually no smell at all to the meat.

I may be ordering from them again, but getting a mix that has no giblets (organs) and just add the hearts and liver separately to the mix to see how that goes. The strong smell has me worried though, because fresh meat should not have a strong odor.

Also, with the Hare-Today meat, my kitties accept this just fine--even with gizzards included in their mix. Perhaps the amount of gizzards is negligible in Tracy's ground mixes. I'll have to ask her.

HTH a bit,

Jules and the Kitty Krew: Abby, Maxie, and wee little Miss Izzy

 

[klag]

Great info, thanks again!  I've read lots of threads, but will go back and read the specific ones you mentioned once I get home from work.

My cats don't like much chicken, but do like turkey so I want to test out some turkey and rabbit first.  The supplement linked above, is that necessary for all raw feeding?  Or is that only if I go with ground meat without the bones and organs.  I see that Hare-Today offers both ground plain meat, and meat ground with bones and organs. 

My cats are very picky, so I expect them not to love it at first no matter what I get, so I will be making the slow transition of putting it near the wet food at first, then mixing it in, using fortiflora etc. etc. 

I don't mind paying quite a bit extra to avoid making my own, and I care for a small colony of ferals, so nothing will go to waste.

Thanks again for all the great info!

 

[klag]

I usually make my own ground raw (including hearts, liver, and supplements--especially taurine) for my three bubbies, but I also order from Hare-Today and add extra hearts, liver, and supplements.

Thanks!  You snuck your post in while I was typing up mine  

This part I quoted, is what makes me hesisitate to feed raw - how do I know when I need to add extra hearts, liver and supplements?  I was hoping to pay a little more to buy a complete raw food - or at least a meat and an already prepared supplement to just mix the proper amount together. 

I'm on board with the benefits of raw but just don't want to mess up something so important as their nutrition.

 

[carolina]

Thanks!  You snuck your post in while I was typing up mine  

This part I quoted, is what makes me hesisitate to feed raw - how do I know when I need to add extra hearts, liver and supplements?  I was hoping to pay a little more to buy a complete raw food - or at least a meat and an already prepared supplement to just mix the proper amount together. 

I'm on board with the benefits of raw but just don't want to mess up something so important as their nutrition.

If you buy from Hare Today, for example, their grounds come already mixed in the right proportions - say the rabbit, for example:
https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=114&osCsid=90507eb29af345d4e2566ffe6d3c1233

Then, all you need to do, is defrost, and add the supplements, which you also buy from them - it comes with a little spoon, and you add a spoon per pound:
https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=290&osCsid=90507eb29af345d4e2566ffe6d3c1233

I simply mix the supplements in, put the serving qty I need for ea. feeding into ziplock bags, and refreeze it.

 

[Willowy]

If you want a pre-mixed complete raw cat food, try Nature's Menu, Nature's Variety, Rad Cat, Primal, etc. (check out the commercial raw thread for a full list). Those are a good way to start, at least.

You want to make sure your cat likes it before buying 60 pounds, though! :lol3:

 

[ldg]

Thanks!  You snuck your post in while I was typing up mine  

This part I quoted, is what makes me hesisitate to feed raw - how do I know when I need to add extra hearts, liver and supplements?  I was hoping to pay a little more to buy a complete raw food - or at least a meat and an already prepared supplement to just mix the proper amount together. 

I'm on board with the benefits of raw but just don't want to mess up something so important as their nutrition.

As Willowy points out, there are "complete and balanced" (as defined by the AAFCO) frozen raw foods commercially available. The Commercial Raw Food thread I provided a link to above discusses many of these.

A member of TCS has a raw feeding website. There is a link to a spreadsheet with an overview of most of the nationally available commercial raw foods (ingredients, indicates what organs are included, whether or not they are single-source proteins, and indicates whether they're intended for rotation or meet AAFCO complete and balanced guidelines, etc.). http://catcentric.org Look on the column on the left - Special Features. It is called "Commercial Raw Products Compared." It is an excel spreadsheet you can download.

To see if there are any pet stores where you live that carry any of interest to you (Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy's, Bravo, Primal, and Vital Essentials are the most commonly found in stores - Rad Cat seems to be a very well accepted and high quality food, but isn't available everywhere), just google "holistic pet store" along with your town, state. You may be surprised at what turns up! Call around to see who carries what. :nod: Bravo makes both "balanced and complete" ground food AND ground food that is just meat, or just meat and bones, intended for rotational feeding, so if you buy a Bravo product, just make sure you know what you're purchasing. :nod:

Personally, I was worried about feeding raw right when we started. So I used the commercial balanced and complete products at first. I mixed a little bit in with the wet food, and just increased the amount. When I was comfortable with the whole process of feeding raw, I found I wanted to take more control over my cats' diet. Most commercial foods contain a lot of liver and/or heart and gizzards, but no other organs. SOME have kidney. And most have vegetables and fruits.

A prey-model diet, called frankenprey, targets the percentages of meat, bones, and organs in cats' natural prey (small rodents/rabbits). This is approximately 80-85% meat, 8-10% bone, 3-5% liver, and 3-5% "other secreting organ." Heart, gizzard, and lung are all considered muscle meat in this type of diet; they are not secreting organs. Heart is important, because it is high in taurine, and dark meats of poultry vs. breast are preferred, because they are more nutritionally dense.

So when you compare the commercially available "complete and balanced" raw foods to a prey-model diet, they leave a lot to be desired. And there are very few that include just meat, calcium, organs, and supplements. Vital Essentials and Primal (if I remember correctly) are two that are meat, organs, bones & supplements only. Nature's Menu and Rad Cat are the two others that have no vegetables or fruits. Both of them use a calcium supplement rather than bones (both have an explanation of why on their websites).

Several of my cats became constipated on Nature's Variety (it's bone content is about 15%. When there is too much calcium in the diet, cats become constipated). I had started offering them strips of just plain, fresh meat to offset the high bone content of Nature's Variety - and they REALLY preferred that to the ground food. So in the end, I stopped feeding the commercially prepared raw "balanced and complete" foods because I wanted to have more control over their diet. I'm currently in the process of moving to a prey-model diet. Right now, I'm doing it boneless, and there is another thread in this forum, still on this front page somewhere, where we discuss calcium supplementation for those of us feeding chunks of meat and organs, but our cats aren't yet eating bones.

**********************

As to your question about supplementing.... the ground mixes from Hare Today are the entire animal, ground. I don't know if the proportion of bones, meat, fat and organs is the same in a pig or chicken as it is in a rabbit or a mouse. :dk: I'm pretty sure My Pet Carnivore also uses whole ground animals. BUT.... these mixes, with meat, bones, and organs, do need to be supplemented in my opinion. This is because there are several amino acids that cats cannot synthesize from other components (Taurine and Arginine being the most noted/known) that degrade with oxidation - and the very process of grinding exposes so much of the meat/organs to air. Because the mixes contain organs and bones, clearly you'd want a supplement meant for a meat/bones/organ mix.

Basically, a prey-model NON-ground diet of meat, bones and organs,served in the right proportions and in chunks, not ground, can be fed without supplementation (well, that's open to debate, but many raw feeders argue that they do not need to be supplemented) because they do not have the same rate of / exposure to oxidation that ground meats and organs do.

Because of the risk of bacterial infection, ground meat from the supermarket should definitely not be fed - it is not ground with the intent that it be fed to animals raw, it is ground with the intent that it be cooked.

Again, hope this helps as opposed to making things more confusing. :lol3:

 

[klag]

Great info, thanks a million! Not confusing, extremely helpful!

Going to place a small sampler order.  Does this sound like I'm on the right track?  Do I need to add anything else like taurine or probiotics?  I didn't see probiotics on their website. 



I'm in Atlanta and have high end petfood stores all over, each with multiple different frozen food brands.  I will check them all out on my day off Thursday and get all different brands to see if my cats will eat any raw without any tricks.  I have a feeling some will eat it.  The ones that don't, I will slowly transition over using all the tips and tricks in the above mentioned threads. I also read many of the member transition threads.  So much info to take in all at once!

I'm also studying up on CRF as I have a CRF kitty (that will not be eating raw, he has his own special diet).  With all this new info, I feel like my head is going to explode!

Thanks again for all the great info!!!

 

[ldg]

:lol3: Yeah, I think we all know that feeling!

I think that looks like a great starting sampler. :nod:

What Carolina and I do is put the meat in a bowl of cold water, let it mostly dethaw, then dump the water, and empty the meat out of the package. Mix in one scoop of alnutrin and 1/4 cup of water per pound of ground stuff. (The directions are on the package). It "melts" in the water REALLY well. :nod: Mix it all up really well, and then I package it up in the amounts I'm going to serve per meal (not per cat). I'm not sure how Carolina handled that end of it. So I freeze 12 ounce bags. And I take out of the freezer what I'm going to need the next day.

If you don't have a food scale, you'll need one! We discuss scales in this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241948/kitchen-scale

I'm feeding my cats about 2.25% of their body weight in raw food per day, divided into three meals. e.g., mine get about 1.5 ounces per meal. My cats are older and not very active, so they're at the low-end of the feeding range (and weight 11.5 - 12 pounds). The guideline is 2% - 4% of body weight. It's easiest to judge based on how much you feed now in relation to the recommended amount. My cats all needed less than the recommended amounts of everything. :lol3: But if yours need the high-end of the recommended amount, I'd feed them 4% of their body weight daily in raw (when you get to 100%). When you're introducing it, you don't need to worry about it much. For the first few days, I just added a little bit to what I was already feeding them. When I moved to 50% raw/50% canned, I started weighing the amount of raw I was adding.

As I'm sure you've seen in our threads about the introductions... some take to it right away, some walk away from their food if it has raw in it; something they hate the first time you offer it, they love the next day... My recommendation is just do your best to view this as a new adventure, and do your best to have fun with it. There is no rush to get them to 100% raw, but if you have to "trick" them into eating it and "liking it," have fun with figuring out how to do that. :lol3: Otherwise you'll be joining some of us in the looney bin.

The only other thing I'd consider is a probiotic. Carolina and some of the others use Proviable-DC, ordered from Amazon. I just buy an acidophilus supplement from the refrigerated section at the local health food store. I give a human dose (10 billion active cultures). This helps ensure your cats have a healthy gut flora, so they can handle any bacteria without a problem if there is any.

BTW - throwing up, diarrhea, or constipation during these introductions is NOT unusual. Think of transitioning to raw more like a kibble transition than a canned food transition. :nod: It requires more acid, different digestive enzymes than they've been producing, and so the first few weeks/month or so, while you're figuring things out can have some... unanticipated side-effects. The good news is that it seems to be just one-time events, and they're ready to go at the next meal (and often want food shortly after tossing up a meal. I usually wait an hour before giving them something, just to make sure their tummies are settled). (My cats did NOT like beef! Rather - beef did not like my cats. :lol3: ).

 

[kittyluv387]

It didnt seem like anyone used mypetcarnivore 3 years ago. Has anyone been using their meats to feed cats lately and can share their experiences??

 

[silverpersian]

I purchase chicken, mutton, beef, rabbit, and turkey from them regularly. I have not had a single bad experience in the two years I have used them. Consistent quality and excellent customer service.

 

[kittyluv387]

How does it work? Do you really feed them just that without any supplements? Thats what their website seems to suggest. Is the meat quality fresh? Hows the packaging?

 

[silverpersian]

I add supplements - the same ones recommended on catinfo.org. I would be happy to send you a recipe.

I usually mix up the supplements and keep the powder in a jar. Mixing up the food becomes very quick this way.

I know that ready-made supplement mixes are available too, but making the mix is so easy that I have never tried purchasing it.

The meat has always seemed very fresh to me. The color is exactly what you would expect of meat that has been frozen right away. Their turnover seems high, so it makes sense that the meat would be fresh.

The meat comes in 2 lb. plastic tubs. The plastic is thick but transparent #5. I cracked one when I dropped it (they arrive frozen solid), but I have never received so much as a chipped tub. I thaw the tub in the refrigerator.

They are very responsive to email and seem to be considerably less expensive than Hare Today. They deliver to a pretty large region as well, if you live in the Midwest.

I have no hesitation in recommending them.

How does it work? Do you really feed them just that without any supplements? Thats what their website seems to suggest. Is the meat quality fresh? Hows the packaging?

 

[LTS3]

How does it work? Do you really feed them just that without any supplements? Thats what their website seems to suggest. Is the meat quality fresh? Hows the packaging?

From the MyPetCarnivore FAQs:

Your label states that your products are not complete, why?

Our producer holds 1 federal and 2 state licenses for pet food manufacturing and must comply with AAFCO labeling standards to maintain them. While we will forgo the heated debate about the motivations of AAFCO here, the real issue is their requirement of additives so that EVERY meal is complete without recognizing the wholistic approach of variety. Humans RARELY have a “Nutritionally Complete” meal (most of us never have), but we know the basics of good nutrition and know to vary our diets enough to include all of the things we need. We believe that this is no less true with our pet’s diet.  

 

Do I need to add any supplements?

Our first priority is to procure the most naturally-raised livestock for our food. None of our food is from large factory farms. By supporting small farms, we know that we are getting the healthiest animals which provide the highest nutrition for your furry family members. We rest easy knowing that the animals that go into our products are superior to those that become grocery store meats for humans!

It has been our experience that by feeding a whole prey diet and a variety of proteins over time, your dog, cat or ferret will get all of the nutrients that a healthy pet needs. 

If you are doing frankenprey or prey model, then you do not need to supplement with anything. Frankenprey is feeding 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organs for each meal. I think prey model is pretty similar.

If you are using a recipe, then you do need to use supplements. The recipie will list the supplements needed and amounts. A good recipie to use is the one at Catinfo.org

Just giving a bowl of something like boneless organ less ground chicken or raw gizzards and nothing else is not a complete balanced diet.

 

[kittyluv387]

Oh no worries i would not just feed chunks of meat to my cats. I thought even with the frankenprey model you still needed to add supplements. Thats why hare today sells the alnutrin and such. And i thought you were supposed to add extra taurine and omega 3s. Im very interested in mypetcarnivore because of their great prices but im just confused about how to use their product. For some reason i feel like hare today has better instruction on their website.

 

[silverpersian]

Oh no worries i would not just feed chunks of meat to my cats. I thought even with the frankenprey model you still needed to add supplements. Thats why hare today sells the alnutrin and such. And i thought you were supposed to add extra taurine and omega 3s. Im very interested in mypetcarnivore because of their great prices but im just confused about how to use their product. For some reason i feel like hare today has better instruction on their website.

 

[silverpersian]

You may find this post (and thread) helpful:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/303246/is-it-cheaper-than-buying-store-bought-cat-food#post_3806830